Nerfing Sorc skill

Enslaved

Feanor wrote: »

Can we please stop saying nerfs are ok because some classes have it worse? Do you want every class to play like misery?

Yes. #nerfsorcs

mikemacon

{{pre-sorc nerf}} ZOMG SORC OP NERF SORC ZOMG!!

{{post-sorc nerf}} Ok, let’s chill out and stop talking nerfs, hey? Let’s be reasonable. Don’t touch my class because reasons.

HappyLittleTree

Them PVPers always complaining.

kylewwefan

These guys work hard. They need a drink. So do I. Cheers!

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Artemiisia wrote: »

How the hell can you justify nerfing every sorc skill to the ground, making them useless to use, another nerf to rune prison.....

and while we still have DKs Fossilizes that not only stuns, but immobilize you, so first you have to use stamina to break free, and another skill like roll dodge, to get out of it, no other cc skill ingame, requires two things to get out of

and nightblades fear, is just broken af.....

Stop making a bunch of threads addressing the same topic. QQ about your broken skill getting fixed elsewhere, nobody needs your negativity and demands for nerfing a perfectly fine skill

DarkScatha wrote: »

Them PVPers always complaining.

PvPers have every right to voice concerns about skills that throw off the balance in combat. Just because we play different game modes than you doesn't make our opinions less valuable. Also, who tf uses fossilize or rune cage in PvE? These skills don't concern you.

mikemacon wrote: »

{{pre-sorc nerf}} ZOMG SORC OP NERF SORC ZOMG!!

{{post-sorc nerf}} Ok, let’s chill out and stop talking nerfs, hey? Let’s be reasonable. Don’t touch my class because reasons.

If something is OP, you balance it. If something is not OP, you don't need to nerf it. MagDK is a tremendously below-average class (nonexistent class mobility, objectively worthless passives, zero burst, no execute, and limited to melee range), and nerfing fossilize would bury it. Sorcs just had their most powerful, long-range, unblockable, undodgeable hard CC toned down (range maintained, still unblockable, but can now be dodged and duration is halved), which still synergizes extremely well with a sorc's burst combo. All this really did was stop handing brainless kills to brainless sorcs with no skill. Now, it will actually require you to use some skill if you want to get kills, like the rest of the classes (maybe barring stamden or any nightblades).

Your argument is oversimplifying the cases being presented on both sides, and you're giving validity to an argument that at its core is "they took away my thing (that was overperforming) so now take away theirs! (that is not overperforming)" It would not be balance to nerf fossilize, unless you just want DKs to stay out of PvP, but then I'd say you probably have a pretty biased agenda.

Fiktius

Artemiisia wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

U have been hit? Wow. Use shieldstacking. Also, ur streak breaks roots.

if they nerf sorcs only viable cc ingame, they should give fossilizes the same treatment

"Let's think positively: Sorcs still got a class stun which is not tied in ultimate. "
- Greetings Mag Warden

Jabbs_Giggity

Artemiisia wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

U have been hit? Wow. Use shieldstacking. Also, ur streak breaks roots.

thats still two skills I need to use break freee, and streak, to get out of fossilizes

if they nerf sorcs only viable cc ingame, they should give fossilizes the same treatment

Um...Templars don't even have a viable CC...A 4K cleanse is just as bad as a 4K dodge-roll and both have cons: If cleansed, generally you have, on average 6-12 negative effects stacked on you in PVP. Cleanse only removes 5 (which are usually reapplied by the time you finish casting cleanse) and doesn't even get to the roots/snares/CC's, etc. If dodge-rolled, you waste almost HALF of your stam pool (Magplar) and just get snared/CC'd again (due to broken game mechanics not applying CC Immunity and no access to snare immunity unless using 2H FM) which generally leaves you with no stamina = death.

Disclaimer: I main a Magplar, but I do play other classes frequently...I am tired of hearing about "My OP Class has been nerfed to hell" or "This class has it better". Most classes are in great spots, with the exception of Mag and Stam Templars and Mag Wardens. Stam Sorcs IMO could be in a better spot with some love, but are still viable.

Micah_Bayer

kikkehs wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

Enslaved wrote: »

U have been hit? Wow. Use shieldstacking. Also, ur streak breaks roots.

thats still two skills I need to use break freee, and streak, to get out of fossilizes

if they nerf sorcs only viable cc ingame, they should give fossilizes the same treatment

I am a sorc main, and could you stop this? it's hurting my feelins. I have Mines, Encase, rune cage, streak, Attro stun and pet stun. No. Rune Cage was not and is not our only CC. L2P.

And the Rune Cage "nerf" was a buff... as no idiot would ever sit in rune cage for 3,5sec. But reducing time before it breaks (and does dmg) too 2sec, you might actually have someone sitting it out

but please, continue crying. Them tears are sweet xD

Clearly not a sorc main lol

ZarkingFrued

Getting so tired of the nerf calls. See ZOS, you nerf one thing here comes cries for nerfing something else just because you nerfed the other thing. People will eventually just stop playing, they already are

ak_pvp

DK can't line up a fuckoff level burst that sorcs can. Rune shouldn't have existed.

DK needs it since its a control class. And IMO it should be the only hard CC of its type, (direct, unblock/dodgable) stop homogenizing classes.

Sorc can have frags as a hard CC, and rune as a root that temporarily drops all friendly major/minor buffs on the target in it, to make up for its lack of debuffs. By nature unblock/dodgable, but doesn't CC so doesn't have the problem of making you guaranteed to eat to 20k+ of burst in 2s.

For NBs I'd personally swap templar eclipse with fear mines. Rename it confusion so you accidentally hit yourself each attack. It fits nightblades illusionary theme. Unblockable/dodgable.

Then give templar blinding flashes as a CC, 100% misschance until its broken with an after effect of 15/20% miss chance for 3s. Again unblockable/dodgable, but no immobilize.

Tadaaa, something useful and unique for each of the classes encompasing their own themes.

Joy_Division

Enslaved wrote: »

Until I get to a sorc to cast fossilize I am hit by 15 skills, stunned twice and most likely meteored once. Ofc, I am talking about sorcs that actually know what they are doing.

Well, it always matters if people who know what they are doing. Dks who know what they are doing aren't hit by 15 skills, stunned twice, and meteored before fossilizing a sorc.

ak_pvp

mikemacon wrote: »

{{pre-sorc nerf}} ZOMG SORC OP NERF SORC ZOMG!!

{{post-sorc nerf}} Ok, let’s chill out and stop talking nerfs, hey? Let’s be reasonable. Don’t touch my class because reasons.

You know there is a difference between fear/fossilize and other balanced class mechanics that have existed and been balanced for a long time and have ample counterplay vs a button that guaranteed death from afar in most cases.
Oh what am I saying, of course you don't.

Hal_Moore

I play all classes and can say DK's fossilize is a crutch that nearly every unskilled DK in pvp relies on. MAYBE that skill does need to be nerfed but ...

Sorcs have mages fury and implosion, streak, surge, lightning form, daedric curse, conjured ward, crystal frags, dark exchange, daedric mines, Negate and overload... all skills that give sorcs an advantage and also need to be nerfed LONG before fossilize does.

Learn to play your class...nearly everything has a counter to it. A simple immovable pot negates fossilize for 15 secs (and can be used every 45 secs). . . If you infuse your jewelry and put potion enchant you can have that timer down to 22.5 secs so you can have a window of merely 7.5 secs that you can be CCed...Argonian Sorc with that + racial potion passive ....yea something needs to be nerfed but its not DK.


Nearly everytime i've immobilized a sorc they just shield +streak +dodge roll+ darkexchange away.

#Nerfsorcs

Tan9oSuccka

It sounds like a Sorc Superstar just got spanked by a lowly StamDK with fossilize on the back bar.

Arthg

You made another thread on the same topic here.

Multiplying threads is actually detrimental to your lil' crusade.

While you wait for the devs to lend an ear (and they just may, as they've been known to listen to clueless QQs and nerf stuff on their basis), I suggest you just increase your stam stats and learn to fight DKs.

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Hal_Moore wrote: »

I play all classes and can say DK's fossilize is a crutch that nearly every unskilled DK in pvp relies on.

Unskilled, huh? Just for my own curiosity then, please tell me what the skilled DKs use in lieu of a CC that allows our main spammable to land.

DKs rely on weak DOTs, weaker class passives, garbage mobility (only obtained by either running vamp and letting yourself get nuked by any stam toon with DBoS, or by sacrificing damage or sustain in the form of jewelry traits [mind you, our damage and sustain are already laughable - it's an unpalatable option for most mag DKs]), an easily predicted and telegraphed dodgeable main spammable (no powerlashes would EVER land if not for fossilize, because it is dodgeable and 100% of the time coming right off the heels of a standard flame lash, as that's the only way to proc it now that off-balance is shot to ****), and to top it all off, NO EXECUTE.

So please, tell me what skills the good DKs are running, because based on the toolkit available to this class, I am apparently "unskilled."

Tan9oSuccka

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Hal_Moore wrote: »

I play all classes and can say DK's fossilize is a crutch that nearly every unskilled DK in pvp relies on.

Unskilled, huh? Just for my own curiosity then, please tell me what the skilled DKs use in lieu of a CC that allows our main spammable to land.

DKs rely on weak DOTs, weaker class passives, garbage mobility (only obtained by either running vamp and letting yourself get nuked by any stam toon with DBoS, or by sacrificing damage or sustain in the form of jewelry traits [mind you, our damage and sustain are already laughable - it's an unpalatable option for most mag DKs]), an easily predicted and telegraphed dodgeable main spammable (no powerlashes would EVER land if not for fossilize, because it is dodgeable and 100% of the time coming right off the heels of a standard flame lash, as that's the only way to proc it now that off-balance is shot to ****), and to top it all off, NO EXECUTE.

So please, tell me what skills the good DKs are running, because based on the toolkit available to this class, I am apparently "unskilled."

Don’t pay them any mind. They run broken meta builds and classes, and then talk about “skill”.

For those that can’t figure out fossilize, L2P. No really. DKs are woefully sub par, and you post about more nerfs.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Enslaved wrote: »

DK fossilize has range that require DK to stand on its target to cast it. Sorc stun has range slightly greater than distance between Earth and Jupiter. Also, this is actually a buff since if target does not break free in 2 sec it will also suffer damage from this skill.

Enslaved wrote: »

U have been hit? Wow. Use shieldstacking. Also, ur streak breaks roots.

@Enslaved

First Streak doesn't break roots. So clearly, you dont know what you are talking about, and what is perhaps more disturbing, 7 people agreed with you. You can streak while rooted, but the root is still there. Also streaking when rooted makes the direction you are going to travel really tough to predict.

Second, LMAO if you think this is a buff. You are either biased or clueless. If you stay in a hard CC for 2 seconds, you are toast against any good player. They have rendered the damage meaningless and now the skill is beyond clunky and lands less the half the time. To compound matters, there seems to be this funny delay now from the casters point of view so it's really hard to tell if it is going to land or not. Lots of wasted magic and ulti on well setup combos that go nowhere. Not even sure this skill merits a slot on my bars any more, as relying on it to work can be a huge detriment.

I would trade for Fossilize (double CC) or Fear (multi player CC, with minor maim), both of which are guaranteed to land, vs a single CC, that barely lands half the time with damage that will either not hit a good player or not be needed against a bad one. Yes it was overperforming, but the huge nerf totally missed the mark.

I dont know if the combat team is drunk, but I do know they are incompetent...

Dr_Rektar

stop al the dk, sorc etc whining and u l never see a single nerf

barney2525

Enslaved wrote: »

DK fossilize has range that require DK to stand on its target to cast it. Sorc stun has range slightly greater than distance between Earth and Jupiter. Also, this is actually a buff since if target does not break free in 2 sec it will also suffer damage from this skill.

wow. That IS good range.

AhPook_Is_Here

If they make sorcs more challenging to play isn't that buffing skill, and nerfing faceroll?

Now they need to buff skill in some other classes

Bakkagami

gotta love that you are comparing a 28m range hard stun on a class that has a full toolkit at 28m as well as the only free mobility skill in streak allowing it to maintain max distance easily to... petrify.... an 8m stun on a class that is near 100% melee and has mobility only 1 step above templar for worst in the game. 3.5 vs 2 sec will make virtually no difference in pvp as most people will break it in 1. Now u might actually get the damage proc out of it if someone is slow on cc break and u can still use it to drop block for burst.. again... at 28m

Universe

Forum members who support the nerf, their main: Dragonknights/Nightblades/Templars/Wardens/stamina sorcerer who are not using the ability.
Forum members who are against the nerf, their main: Magicka Sorcerer.

ROFL How typical

Note: Yes this is a nerf.
Rune cage was already useless before this last nerf and now it is not worth to be in the game, ZOS can delete it since almost no one will use it.
Clench is the last fine CC a sorcerer can use and I won't be surprised if it's next in line to be nerfed

KittyHazWares

Wait people play MagDK?? Haven’t been petrified in a long time. DKs are rare. Not as rare as MagDen unicorns though.

They’re definitely not overpowered.

Thought everyone swapped to MagSorcs and StamSorcs :P
Because burst.. and the cool kids are doing it..

Vapirko

Enslaved wrote: »

DK fossilize has range that require DK to stand on its target to cast it. Sorc stun has range slightly greater than distance between Earth and Jupiter. Also, this is actually a buff since if target does not break free in 2 sec it will also suffer damage from this skill.

5 seconds

Hal_Moore

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Hal_Moore wrote: »

I play all classes and can say DK's fossilize is a crutch that nearly every unskilled DK in pvp relies on.

Unskilled, huh? Just for my own curiosity then, please tell me what the skilled DKs use in lieu of a CC that allows our main spammable to land.

DKs rely on weak DOTs, weaker class passives, garbage mobility (only obtained by either running vamp and letting yourself get nuked by any stam toon with DBoS, or by sacrificing damage or sustain in the form of jewelry traits [mind you, our damage and sustain are already laughable - it's an unpalatable option for most mag DKs]), an easily predicted and telegraphed dodgeable main spammable (no powerlashes would EVER land if not for fossilize, because it is dodgeable and 100% of the time coming right off the heels of a standard flame lash, as that's the only way to proc it now that off-balance is shot to ****), and to top it all off, NO EXECUTE.

So please, tell me what skills the good DKs are running, because based on the toolkit available to this class, I am apparently "unskilled."

Stonefist stuns and is on the same cc timer as fossilize, Talons immobilize BOTH allow you to whip. if you dragon leap in and talons you will get plenty of whips in. ALSO did you read my post about how 1 lil immovable potion negates fossilize..?

Zaan is not a weak DOT and nearly every DK runs it and combining that with sets like elf bane to make it tick longer and harder along side sets like sun, burning spellweave, scathing mage or even julianos.

Class passives make dk very tanky and give resources back when you use ultimate, give stam back on use, increase healing received, block mitigation, spell resist, health recovery, snare, and apply burning status affect all of witch are not bad passives.

DK is easy to play because of a double CC that anyone could run around spamming and it IS a crutch.

Granted this TANK class doesn't have an execute they just have something no other class has Fossilize+reflective scale pretty much negates all ranged classes forcing them into melee range.

The point is that sorcs are very strong as are DK's and both have skills the other doesn't... most of the calls for nerfs are because people want easy kills and don't want to learn to play their class. Both classes are fun to play and both get kills and get killed. . .That is PVP.


"Victory or Sovngarde! Make every battle in #ESO a worthy one, even if you don’t prevail."-ESO

Shadowmaster

@Enslaved already ended this thread can we move on please

Shadowmaster

notyuu wrote: »

LAUGHS IN TEMPLAR

Welcome to our world of no class CC [no, the debuff that can be cc broken is not cc....as it hinders 0 mobility]

pfft u must not been using ur jesus beam this patch bro I legit had 0 deaths yesterday in 4 bgs, was like the old vMOL patch of glory days past

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO

Hal_Moore wrote: »

Thestephenmcraeub17_ESO wrote: »

Hal_Moore wrote: »

I play all classes and can say DK's fossilize is a crutch that nearly every unskilled DK in pvp relies on.

Unskilled, huh? Just for my own curiosity then, please tell me what the skilled DKs use in lieu of a CC that allows our main spammable to land.

DKs rely on weak DOTs, weaker class passives, garbage mobility (only obtained by either running vamp and letting yourself get nuked by any stam toon with DBoS, or by sacrificing damage or sustain in the form of jewelry traits [mind you, our damage and sustain are already laughable - it's an unpalatable option for most mag DKs]), an easily predicted and telegraphed dodgeable main spammable (no powerlashes would EVER land if not for fossilize, because it is dodgeable and 100% of the time coming right off the heels of a standard flame lash, as that's the only way to proc it now that off-balance is shot to ****), and to top it all off, NO EXECUTE.

So please, tell me what skills the good DKs are running, because based on the toolkit available to this class, I am apparently "unskilled."

Stonefist stuns and is on the same cc timer as fossilize, Talons immobilize BOTH allow you to whip. if you dragon leap in and talons you will get plenty of whips in. ALSO did you read my post about how 1 lil immovable potions negates fossilize..?

Zaan is not a weak DOT and nearly every DK runs it and combining that with sets like elf bane to make it tick longer and harder along side sets like sun, burning spellweave, scathing mage or even julianos.

Class passives make dk very tanky and give resources back when you use ultimate, give stam back on use, increase healing received, block mitigation, spell resist, health recovery, snare, and apply burning status affect all of witch are not bad passives.

DK is easy to play because of a double CC that anyone could run around spamming and it IS a crutch.

Granted this TANK class doesn't have an execute they just have something no other class has Fossilize+reflective scale pretty much negates all ranged classes forcing them into melee range.

The point is that sorcs are very strong as are DK's and both have skills the other doesn't... most of the calls for nerfs are because people want easy kills and don't want to learn to play their class. Both classes are fun to play and both get kills and get killed. . .That is PVP.


"Victory or Sovngarde! Make every battle in #ESO a worthy one, even if you don’t prevail."-ESO

I don't think I've ever seen a DK in PvP running stonefist, but I guess that isn't your point. The problem with using stonefist or talons instead of fossilize is that powerlast requires a standard flame lash hit to proc. The stun from both stonefist and talons is a 1-off, i.e., you stun them, hit them while stunned immobilized to proc powerlash, then they break free/dodge and are either 1) out of range of lash because everyone is more mobile than DKs or 2) are able to dodge away, negating our powerlash. The beauty of fossilize is that it allows us to land our skill that's meant to be our damage dealer. The stun is ample time to proc powerlash, and the immobilize typically provides time for us to land it (rollie pollie stam blades are harder to hit with this, but they're pretty much a hard counter to everything about magDK - no reflectables, and incap/DBoS is the bane of our existence).

Ok, on to Zaan, I'll pretty much just leave it at this set is cheese and easy to get out of - a stam class can roll or sprint out of range, NBs can cloak out of it, sorcs can streak, and templars... well I actually don't know what they can do because I don't play one in PvP and honestly they seem kind of rare to come across in the first place. Nobody in PvP takes a full load of Zaan because everyone can escape poor-mobility DKs, and so as to elf bane, it's a trash set that is only used to buff one monster set (Zaan) because DKs rely on no other hard-hitting flame DOTs in PvP. Adding time to it is meaningless because nobody will be in range for that long - well, bad players might, but I'm not necessarily talking about them right now.

Oi, the passives. Ok, so the tankiness passives are no doubt our most useful - extra spell resist is nice. World in ruin benefits very few skills that see any use in PvP. The snare one (whatever it's called) was recently nerfed to only apply snare to targets hit with single-target abilities, and had the snare reduced. The resources on ult is 100% necessary for DKs because it is one of our primary sources of regen. Sure, it's a good passive, but without it, DKs would be unsustainably bad. Our passive set doesn't benefit us the way every other class's passives do, our passives just make us barely playable. That isn't an opinion, you simply won't see DKs at the top of leaderboards for PvP or PvE for that matter because every other class does better at everything, mostly thanks to the passives.

I agree that everyone needs to learn to play their classes. My main point is that people who are crying for DK nerfs are being ridiculous because this class has already been nerfed to nearly impossible levels of uselessness. I only keep at it because it's my main, and the rarity of DKs in PvP means people don't typically considering building to defend against us. A small benefit, but a benefit nonetheless.

Priyasekarssk

Enslaved wrote: »

DK fossilize has range that require DK to stand on its target to cast it. Sorc stun has range slightly greater than distance between Earth and Jupiter. Also, this is actually a buff since if target does not break free in 2 sec it will also suffer damage from this skill.

Ok take rune cage in exchange for fossilize. How about that ?