The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
• PC/Mac: NA megaserver for maintenance – April 25, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC)
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
1vX: what’s better, medium or heavy build?
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LegendaryMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's no best 1vX build, as each 1vX situation is different. The best build overall is the one that give you most success according to your preferred playstyle, and this can vary greatly for each player.
Some prefer a medium stamblade with mobility and burst damage, others heavy armor and lots of healing/blocking (I had so much fun with my broken stam dk back in the day) and others yet enjoyed stacking major protection on their shield stack etc.
There is no best 1vX build as they can all be countered by something else. Here is an example and here's how anyone's 1vX gets shut down easy.
- If it's a heavy max resistances lots of healing type of a setup, stamblade with high armor pen and incap shuts it down real quick, bye bye healing and you take tons of damage from the most damaging bursty class in the game.
- If it's a medium armor rolly-polly, all it takes is one magplar or anything with undodgeable damage that also takes you out of cloak and it's bye bye. Gap closers and detection pots are handy in here.
- If it's a sustain sorc spamming shields, all it takes is a bit of shieldbreaker and sload and he's a goner. You can have the strongest shields in the world, you're a goner.
- If it's a permablocking tank of any kind, stack bleeds, unblockable damage & defile, and it's bye bye real quick no matter how tough you think you are.
In order to shut down anyone's 1vX, all it takes are some of the counters I told you about and 1 good player to execute and keep executing them properly.3 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Edited by Aedaryl on August 20, 2018 12:02PM0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Oh boy, can you please reread this part here:
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
I don't ignore the 40% cost reduction on 1h&s, it just works on both bars there is no cost difference when using bash on your 2h bar or 1h&s bar as you can see from then numbers you see above.
As you can see the damage from the 1h&s bash is higher than the 2h bash but they cost exactly the same if you don't trust me test it for yourself.
Also i used 100 points into bashing expert to make the bash as cheap as possible to give your "oh so op combo heroic+bash+la" any possible advantage in terms of cost.
I didn't include the amount of stamina that gets drained when you get hit while you bash (400-1600 stamina every .25 seconds)
Additionally ofc you bash on your 2h bar as this can actively apply the weapon bleeds, unlike the bash of 1h&s.
Just ask yourself one question, why does no one except for stamdk and some stamwarden run heroic+bash+la? Surely because it's the best combo in the game and the other classes just don't want to play that op shot right?
Last point "bash is op" okay i give up that's too much the call for unneeded nerfs has reached a new level that is on par with the "exploiting tanks" post or nerf jumping1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Oh boy, can you please reread this part here:
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
I don't ignore the 40% cost reduction on 1h&s, it just works on both bars there is no cost difference when using bash on your 2h bar or 1h&s bar as you can see from then numbers you see above.
As you can see the damage from the 1h&s bash is higher than the 2h bash but they cost exactly the same if you don't trust me test it for yourself.
Also i used 100 points into bashing expert to make the bash as cheap as possible to give your "oh so op combo heroic+bash+la" any possible advantage in terms of cost.
I didn't include the amount of stamina that gets drained when you get hit while you bash (400-1600 stamina every .25 seconds)
Additionally ofc you bash on your 2h bar as this can actively apply the weapon bleeds, unlike the bash of 1h&s.
Just ask yourself one question, why does no one except for stamdk and some stamwarden run heroic+bash+la? Surely because it's the best combo in the game and the other classes just don't want to play that op shot right?
Last point "bash is op" okay i give up that's too much the call for unneeded nerfs has reached a new level that is on par with the "exploiting tanks" post or nerf jumping
No one use heroic slash as a support skill except stamplar.
Bash costing the same on 2h and 1h&S is a bug that need to be absolutely fixed.
If you bash all the time with 2 hands, that's jsut proove the bash "cost" isn't a problem at all.
Stamsorc, Stamdk, stamwarden and also stamplar when they are sick of jabs use heroicslash. Running 1h&S is BiS when you want to play outnumbered.
You also didn't understood my point. I never said it was THE best combo in the game, but it's certainly one of the best. How much time will you ignore the other part of the heroic slash damage ?
NB doesn't use heroic slash because surpise attack add major fracture, and because they have other source of minor main.
They also rarely run with 1&S because they have access to major defile so they can give up 1&S for being a rollerblade or a bleedblade.
Bash deal too much damage yeah, it make 1hS dealing great damage while being as well the best defense in the game.
0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Oh boy, can you please reread this part here:
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
I don't ignore the 40% cost reduction on 1h&s, it just works on both bars there is no cost difference when using bash on your 2h bar or 1h&s bar as you can see from then numbers you see above.
As you can see the damage from the 1h&s bash is higher than the 2h bash but they cost exactly the same if you don't trust me test it for yourself.
Also i used 100 points into bashing expert to make the bash as cheap as possible to give your "oh so op combo heroic+bash+la" any possible advantage in terms of cost.
I didn't include the amount of stamina that gets drained when you get hit while you bash (400-1600 stamina every .25 seconds)
Additionally ofc you bash on your 2h bar as this can actively apply the weapon bleeds, unlike the bash of 1h&s.
Just ask yourself one question, why does no one except for stamdk and some stamwarden run heroic+bash+la? Surely because it's the best combo in the game and the other classes just don't want to play that op shot right?
Last point "bash is op" okay i give up that's too much the call for unneeded nerfs has reached a new level that is on par with the "exploiting tanks" post or nerf jumping
No one use heroic slash as a support skill except stamplar.
Bash costing the same on 2h and 1h&S is a bug that need to be absolutely fixed.
If you bash all the time with 2 hands, that's jsut proove the bash "cost" isn't a problem at all.
Stamsorc, Stamdk, stamwarden and also stamplar when they are sick of jabs use heroicslash. Running 1h&S is BiS when you want to play outnumbered.
You also didn't understood my point. I never said it was THE best combo in the game, but it's certainly one of the best. How much time will you ignore the other part of the heroic slash damage ?
NB doesn't use heroic slash because surpise attack add major fracture, and because they have other source of minor main.
They also rarely run with 1&S because they have access to major defile so they can give up 1&S for being a rollerblade or a bleedblade.
Bash deal too much damage yeah, it make 1hS dealing great damage while being as well the best defense in the game.
I didn't say i bash all the time in 2h, you said people don't bash on their 2h and if you bash everytime on your 1h&s bar then there is no reason not to do so on the 2h bar cost wise.
The reason i listed it was to show that even with increased damage of bash with 1h&s, the damage is lower while the cost is higher with 1h&s be it a bug or not, it's what we have in the game.
Even if it's a bug you'll deal more damage and be at about an equal cost with 2h when compared to 1h&s.
It's not one of the best it's just the only useable by stamdk which is what we are mainly talking about, stamwarden is better off using Spin2Win or 2h with master 2h on 1vX rather than 1h&s.
Stamdk could use uppercut, which is absolutely useless in 1vX due to many aspects:
Single target 1 second spammable that won't oneshot anything except the most squishy targets while being the skill with the easiest counterplay in the game
Leaving 2 other things:
Heroic + bash or imbue with 2h or 1h&s
Both things perform rather meh as they are either very expensive when you go with 1h&s and bash or you have imbue with 2h which deals okayish damage and heals you but the forced delay on the first hit and the sluggishness of light attacks especially with 2h.
Just because a one legged child won a race vs 2 fully paralysed toddlers doesn't mean they can compete anywhere close to healthy adults.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I think roll Dodge is fine as the primary defense
Don't forget OP "console joystick movement limitation" mitigation! :PMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
MrDenimChicken✭✭✭✭✭dodge roll isnt as strong as it was before spin to win became undodgeable, but its still strong
this question probably depends on the class, but on my stamden, heavy always outperformed medium0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@MinnoMrDenimChicken wrote: »dodge roll isnt as strong as it was before spin to win became undodgeable, but its still strong
this question probably depends on the class, but on my stamden, heavy always outperformed medium
Heavy isn't subpar by any means.1 -
Adenoma✭✭✭✭✭
✭@MrDenimChicken , I’ve ran medium a fair bit on stamwarden and it’s equally strong. You gain a lot by running medium and the resistance and max health loss isn’t that bad when you get to roll a decent amount. Just flops to spinning and a lot of channeled attacks.Adenoma-Badenoma-Sadenoma0 -
Ariades_swe✭✭✭✭✭Ariades_swe wrote: »I would say it depend.
o
If your question is : Is medium armor primery defense (roll dodge) is better than heavy armor one (block), then the answer is no.
You can build medium build with more resistance than heavy one quite easely.
If you run medium + fortified brass or impregnable or medium + 3 protective jewlery, then medium can worth it.
In term of playstyle, the high mitigation + high healing + Block is the best way to 1vX on a stam.
Now there is swift. Go in a zerg, then run when it's starting to smell bad. People can't counter you because you are fastest than wrobel when he nerf sorcs.
My final answer : you need high mitigation and swift to be OP. Go heavy + swift.
Block is *** compared to dodge now.
Why every 1vXer an nb these days.
Dodge is strong but you can't rely on it because of the dodge penality. Only NB can effectively use dodge roll because they can reset the penality.
Dodge is the best secondary defense. Magicka build can dodge cast shield/heal, avoid most damage and have their heal/shield making the work. Stamina build can dodge 2-3 times in a raw for avoid ranged damage when they are chased for exemple.
Relying on dodge as your main form of defense doesn't work. Even stamblade use cloak as their main defense.
That's why blocking is better. It's cheaper since you can choose what to block and it doesn't have expodential cost.
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Oh boy, can you please reread this part here:
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
I don't ignore the 40% cost reduction on 1h&s, it just works on both bars there is no cost difference when using bash on your 2h bar or 1h&s bar as you can see from then numbers you see above.
As you can see the damage from the 1h&s bash is higher than the 2h bash but they cost exactly the same if you don't trust me test it for yourself.
Also i used 100 points into bashing expert to make the bash as cheap as possible to give your "oh so op combo heroic+bash+la" any possible advantage in terms of cost.
I didn't include the amount of stamina that gets drained when you get hit while you bash (400-1600 stamina every .25 seconds)
Additionally ofc you bash on your 2h bar as this can actively apply the weapon bleeds, unlike the bash of 1h&s.
Just ask yourself one question, why does no one except for stamdk and some stamwarden run heroic+bash+la? Surely because it's the best combo in the game and the other classes just don't want to play that op shot right?
Last point "bash is op" okay i give up that's too much the call for unneeded nerfs has reached a new level that is on par with the "exploiting tanks" post or nerf jumping
Don't bother replying to him.
He's a textbook case of the Dunning-Kruger effect.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ariades_swe wrote: »Ariades_swe wrote: »I would say it depend.
o
If your question is : Is medium armor primery defense (roll dodge) is better than heavy armor one (block), then the answer is no.
You can build medium build with more resistance than heavy one quite easely.
If you run medium + fortified brass or impregnable or medium + 3 protective jewlery, then medium can worth it.
In term of playstyle, the high mitigation + high healing + Block is the best way to 1vX on a stam.
Now there is swift. Go in a zerg, then run when it's starting to smell bad. People can't counter you because you are fastest than wrobel when he nerf sorcs.
My final answer : you need high mitigation and swift to be OP. Go heavy + swift.
Block is *** compared to dodge now.
Why every 1vXer an nb these days.
Dodge is strong but you can't rely on it because of the dodge penality. Only NB can effectively use dodge roll because they can reset the penality.
Dodge is the best secondary defense. Magicka build can dodge cast shield/heal, avoid most damage and have their heal/shield making the work. Stamina build can dodge 2-3 times in a raw for avoid ranged damage when they are chased for exemple.
Relying on dodge as your main form of defense doesn't work. Even stamblade use cloak as their main defense.
That's why blocking is better. It's cheaper since you can choose what to block and it doesn't have expodential cost.
I'm not calling lag to rescue but it's something that affects gameplay and when you can't use things because lag hinders you from doing so that is something you have to consider, just like every templar has to consider that they can't use jabs during primetimeRagnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »Roll Dodge soooo stronk right meow, seriously
Thats cause tanking the damage is out of question nowadays. Rollers were always very effective against my playstyle anyways so I feel no difference at all fighting them. So Its not like rollers got stronger but the meta shifted in favour of them.
Where do you play ? In PC EU yesteday on Vivec I saw 85% of tanky builds. A ton of stam dk, stamden, magdk. I only saw 3 magsorc, and some NB.
Meta there is to be super tanky and wait the zerg.
.
I do play in PC EU, so please stop lying already. Acting like block is a solid 1vX tool... You are sooooo last year, you're literally stuck in homestead , and the worst part is that you couldn't learn how to counter block in more than a year now... Why are you even giving people 1vX advice like you could actually 1vX?
You lack knowledge and experience. Blocking is the best 1vX tool.
Smart blocking is what I speak about. Block when u see the warden shalck + dawnbreker comming, block when you see the curse comming to counter the reach frag fury, block when you see the end of PoTL comming for prevent DBoS and reduced the burst, block after an incap to counter bow.
Smart blocking is the best 1vX tool, combined with high resistance and great HoT, it reduce the damage so well than HoT can negate the damage you took.
If you think permablock is what I'm speaking about, then you have no clue about how this game is working.
Smart block is blocking for a few 0.5s and blockcasting a heal.
Block is the best mitigation tool because you can still use your skills by doing it, and because it doesn't have expodential cost.
I love your imaginary 1vX tactics though.
please tell me more, like how you told me bash spam is the most OP thing ever in the blockcast thread .d
Bash deal around the same damage than a light attack with 1h&S so doing LA/Heroic/slash/bash is like having 2 light attack damage + your spammable.
Bash is extremely strong and it's one of the reason why 1&S is BiS and have the same damage if not more than the other weapons lines.
You want me to link that post again that shows that Heroic+La+bash deals less damage than any other spammable while at the same time costing much more?
Also let's not even consider the additional cost when you get hit when you bash and the vulnerability of LA+skill+bash when lag is around.
Link that post, I will be so happy to proove that post wasn't true.
Calling lag to rescue is kinda meh.A small comparison of spammables, their cost and the thigns they offer for their class.
Here are the values for different spammables and their Tooltip on a char with only purple 1h+s, no cp, no Attributes, no gear.
Cost:
Heroic: 2673 (with 1h+s cost reduction passive)
Suprise attack: 2295 (378 stam less)
Jabs: 2509 (164 stam less)
Imbue: 2430 (243 stam less)
Birds: 2065 (608 stam less)
Tooltip:
Heroic: 1929
Suprise attack: 2134 (10.6% more Damage)
Jabs+1 Burning light proc: 4149 (117.4% more Damage)
Imbue: 1982 ( 2% more Damage)
Brids: 2201 (14.1% more Damage)
Now let's see what heroic brings to the table for stamdk:
46 (mag+stam) /ult *0.75 ult/s= 34.5 (mag+stam)/s
---> a massive 69 magicka and Stamina regen
Next Thing is your talk About bash+heroic+la being such a great spammable.
it's not it's worse than other combinations, first being locked on your 1h+s bar reduces your Damage on both the skill you use and the Damage of your light attacks, also you don't gain anything from the reduced cost of bash as the cost is the same (736 Stamina with 100 Points into Bashing expert) on both bars meaning you Always have a higher Stamina drain while spamming heroic while doing less Damage.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
And this works for every spammable, heroic Slash is linked with a higher cost and less Damage.
Let's see what the other spammables bring to the table and how they snyergise with the classes:
Suprise attack gives you more Damage, givs you the ooprtunity to have a high hitting ability that Comes with a stun and gives you a further 8% Damage increase which means highly increase burst potential as you don't have ot waste a gcd for a stun only, additionally if yo use a fully charged heavy attack you gain 100% more Stamina from it. No to Mention that using it will Keep up Major resolve and ward, while giving you 3% more max Health and has the small convinience that it can proc both Twin blade and blunt or the 2h bleed.
Let's swap over to Jabs, Jabs deal much more Damage, are AoE, apply a stronger snare, give you 10% more crit Chance, give you more crit Damage, more Damage to Blocking Targets and more block Mitigation. and don't tell me you'll Slot another aedric spear ability to get Access to the passives, you have 5 Slots for active skills and an ultimate no one will ever use,
sun Shield, spear shards, focused charge aren't used by a stamplar, javalin is a weaker Version of reverb without a defile that also reduces your offensive window by pushing your enemy out of range. therefor either you Slot Jabs and heroic on one bar or you start creating a decent bar with only one of them.
The two used Stamina spammables Show exactly what a spammable should be, it synergises with the whole toolkit and makes you better.
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
They simply have to introduce a Staminawhip that synergises with the stamdks toolkit.
Let's see what we can find there:
Combustion: increases the Damage of Poison Status effect and gives you 500 stam every 5 sec once you apply it (100 stam regen)
Warmth: will be changed to only on direct Damage next patch meaning you won't have 100% uptime with venemous claw ---> next Synergy
Wolrd in ruins: no Synergy here but wait that might become intresting with the next suggestions
If we now Change Deep breath to a Stamina Morph that applies Poisoned Status effect on the second hit and give the Staminawhip a proc like power lash when used against poisoned enemies that deals more Damage or has an additional effect then we created a Synergy inside of the stamdk.
Combustion gives more Sustain due to the new Deep breath and increases Damage with higher poisoned uptime, world in ruins buffs Deep breath and by combining the Stamina Whip with Deep breath the Overall Damage Output increases while warmth now applies a snare on People we attack with that Stamina whip.
And the best Thing is we can still use heroic on the back bar and make use of minor maim, a 60% snare and we gain our 69 mag and stam regen while we reduce our Stamina drain immensly as a Stamina Whip would cost as much as birds (15% cost reduction on Stamina skills compared to their magicka Counterpart)
You realise this comparaison is *** right ?
First, it just proove my point that bash is extremely strong and should be nerfed.
Secondly, comparing a stamden bird that nobody use because it's bad VS a instant skill that give you minor main, minor heroism and one of the most powerfull snare in the game is just hilarious.
A spammable that snare for 60%, that reduce the ennemy damage by 15%, that give you 1 ultimate every 1.5s and that give you access to best defense in the game is what I call a great skill.
Example for a warden: Purple weapons, front bar 2h, back bar 1h+s, used skills birds and heroic Slash, 100 Points into bashing exper, no other cp allocated, no Attributes,
Damage values:
2h: bash 425+ la 675+ birds 2510 = 3610
1h+s: bash 722+ la 642+ heroic 2093=3567
Resource drain:
2h: bash 736 Stamina+ birds 2065 Stamina= 2801 stamina
1h+s: bash 736 Stamina+ heroic Slash 2673 Stamina=3499 stamina
This is so biased. You take a character with 100 points into bashing expert which is not something playable and you volontary ignore the 1&S 40% less bash cost. You can't use bash on other weapon than S&B because the damage will not be that high and the cost that low.
The 2h with birds set up don't bash, meaning 1h&S deal more damage and even if you bash with 2 hand, the cost on 2h will be 1889 and on 1h&S it will be 1133 and probably even less since the damage on 1&S is enough to invest some reduc cost cps.
Oh boy, can you please reread this part here:
Additionally you gain Nothing from spamming heroic Slash, many classes use it as an support skill not a main spammable and that's what classes with an actual spammable that works with the class and is stronger than heroic Slash have in favour of a stamdk. They can get the full Utility from heroic Slash on their back bar and then they can deal more Damage at a lower cost with their actual spammable that's designed to work with their class.
I don't ignore the 40% cost reduction on 1h&s, it just works on both bars there is no cost difference when using bash on your 2h bar or 1h&s bar as you can see from then numbers you see above.
As you can see the damage from the 1h&s bash is higher than the 2h bash but they cost exactly the same if you don't trust me test it for yourself.
Also i used 100 points into bashing expert to make the bash as cheap as possible to give your "oh so op combo heroic+bash+la" any possible advantage in terms of cost.
I didn't include the amount of stamina that gets drained when you get hit while you bash (400-1600 stamina every .25 seconds)
Additionally ofc you bash on your 2h bar as this can actively apply the weapon bleeds, unlike the bash of 1h&s.
Just ask yourself one question, why does no one except for stamdk and some stamwarden run heroic+bash+la? Surely because it's the best combo in the game and the other classes just don't want to play that op shot right?
Last point "bash is op" okay i give up that's too much the call for unneeded nerfs has reached a new level that is on par with the "exploiting tanks" post or nerf jumping
Don't bother replying to him.
He's a textbook case of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Sorry but the truth is there, heroic slash is a great skill that does good damage, that make you able to use powerfull bash, that have one of the best snare, that give you 15% less damage taken and that give you ult regen.
Saying heroic slash is bad just proove how people lack knowledge.
Your the first btw, since you don't argue but just write for nothing construtive.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@MrDenimChicken , I’ve ran medium a fair bit on stamwarden and it’s equally strong. You gain a lot by running medium and the resistance and max health loss isn’t that bad when you get to roll a decent amount. Just flops to spinning and a lot of channeled attacks.
medium stamden can effectively reset the dodge counter against rangers because shimmering is reliable and absorb > reflect. I like stamden in medium with orc. Its a very fun combo, great in group play, however it is not as easy as some other specs for 1vX, as using the d.swing/shalks/dbos combo takes a bit of practice. Its always good to have blood craze with master dw on stamden cause the class lacks built in dot pressure , so having axe passive bleeds also doesn't hurt and the minor brutality amps up the bleeds even more.
If I could ask for a single buff to stamden, I would ask for longer uptime on bird of prey(and the other morph too, why not.)Edited by Ragnarock41 on August 22, 2018 10:08PM0