Reduce keep wall HP

Ackwalan

Elong wrote: »

Another issue with this is that it makes it incredibly easy for a player to just ride up after a battle is nearly over and repair a wall once (as there's so much to repair) and share in all the AP for that defence tick they did no work for, which was the reason for the changes in the first place. You've countered your own change ZOS.

The defense ticks were nerfed. Even a long battle will often only be 4-5 K worth.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

I also got, on top of huge HP for walls, weird glitches with Postern Door Wall upgrade appearing/disappearing every second.

Anazasi

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

The one good thing that it looked like zos did and its a f'ing bug. Oh well lets all wait for the pvdooring to begin again.,

NobleX35

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

Were keep gates hp values supposed to get increased? Before the update both inner and outer keep gates had 150k hp at level 0 and 225k at level 5. Post-update outer keep gates have a constant 225k hp and inner keep gates have a constant 375k hp. The gates also do not seem to upgrade or degrade at any point.

Lieblingsjunge

Pls don't change it. Before you could 20/20 a scroll-keep and nobody would have time to react, because it would be so easy to break outer/inner main. Now you at least have to work for it - and it gives people some time to react, and rightfully so. I enjoy this more tbh. It actually gives people time to react instead of being all "Yo, the keep is gone since it's 20/20".

Although I can see the issue when you're sieging emp keeps. How about you keep the 3 backmost-keeps (Fare/BB/BM, Arrius, KC, FG etc.) the same it is now (Max it out and 550k or 600k or something, maybe). But change the emp-keep-ring.

Now it's actually a hazzle to siege keeps and it doesn't reward PvDoor with 72k AP/Hour.

NobleX35

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Pls don't change it. Before you could 20/20 a scroll-keep and nobody would have time to react, because it would be so easy to break outer/inner main. Now you at least have to work for it - and it gives people some time to react, and rightfully so. I enjoy this more tbh. It actually gives people time to react instead of being all "Yo, the keep is gone since it's 20/20".

Although I can see the issue when you're sieging emp keeps. How about you keep the 3 backmost-keeps (Fare/BB/BM, Arrius, KC, FG etc.) the same it is now (Max it out and 550k or 600k or something, maybe). But change the emp-keep-ring.

Now it's actually a hazzle to siege keeps and it doesn't reward PvDoor with 72k AP/Hour.

I disagree completely. I find the new system to just be more tedious and time consuming. Most pvdoor attempts (at least on shor) never reach higher than 10 siege. And most of the gameplay on shor is small group play, so the higher hp values really hurt the flow of the map because small groups cant flip a keep fast enough.

I feel like the stronger npcs that were introduced last patch making siege a high level keep difficult enough, and provides most players (at least on shor) plenty of time to react.

Anazasi

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

The one good thing that it looked like zos did and its a f'ing bug. Oh well lets all wait for the pvdooring to begin again.,

NobleX35 wrote: »

Lieblingsjunge wrote: »

Pls don't change it. Before you could 20/20 a scroll-keep and nobody would have time to react, because it would be so easy to break outer/inner main. Now you at least have to work for it - and it gives people some time to react, and rightfully so. I enjoy this more tbh. It actually gives people time to react instead of being all "Yo, the keep is gone since it's 20/20".

Although I can see the issue when you're sieging emp keeps. How about you keep the 3 backmost-keeps (Fare/BB/BM, Arrius, KC, FG etc.) the same it is now (Max it out and 550k or 600k or something, maybe). But change the emp-keep-ring.

Now it's actually a hazzle to siege keeps and it doesn't reward PvDoor with 72k AP/Hour.

I disagree completely. I find the new system to just be more tedious and time consuming. Most pvdoor attempts (at least on shor) never reach higher than 10 siege. And most of the gameplay on shor is small group play, so the higher hp values really hurt the flow of the map because small groups cant flip a keep fast enough.

I feel like the stronger npcs that were introduced last patch making siege a high level keep difficult enough, and provides most players (at least on shor) plenty of time to react.

OMG with the changes to siege it will only take a short time before players are complaining PVWall

Elong

I thought the changes were valid, not a bug. Strange. They need repairing way too often though, people gonna get to GO repairing walls.

Sacredx

Elong wrote: »

I thought the changes were valid, not a bug. Strange. They need repairing way too often though, people gonna get to GO repairing walls.

This is exactly the problem right now.

High hp means a more static map; last two nights the only keeps in contention were Brindle and Drakelowe. Why, because they are "out of the way" keeps that people don't tend to pay attention to and are therefore higher change to capture. People were not even interested in the main ring keeps. imo that's bad gameplay.

High hp also means it is much easier to repair a wall or door. So what we are seeing right now is defenders simply stacking aoe siege on breaches and waiting until they can repair and close in the enemy. Eccentrically pvdoor play that results in lower pvp interaction.

I would like to see a more open map with lots of groups fighting in different places and pvping rather than a map that is basically dead with one faction locked in against another in an endless wall break / repair cycle. That's is not fun.

Anazasi wrote: »

The one good thing that it looked like zos did and its a f'ing bug. Oh well lets all wait for the pvdooring to begin again.,

This wall hp change was not listed in the patch notes and therefore zos never did this change in the first place. Don't get ahead of yourself.

LarsS

NobleX35 wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

Were keep gates hp values supposed to get increased? Before the update both inner and outer keep gates had 150k hp at level 0 and 225k at level 5. Post-update outer keep gates have a constant 225k hp and inner keep gates have a constant 375k hp. The gates also do not seem to upgrade or degrade at any point.

Can verify the observation guess it is a bug.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

SOMETIMES? The walls at Ash are 725,000 hitpoints at the moment!

Katahdin

Tonight EP was trying to take back BRK and the walls were invincible.

Some of the outer and most of the inner could not be damaged

Took them over 45 minutes to find a soft spot and seige.
It was nuts

Kelces

Elong wrote: »

Another issue with this is that it makes it incredibly easy for a player to just ride up after a battle is nearly over and repair a wall once (as there's so much to repair) and share in all the AP for that defence tick they did no work for, which was the reason for the changes in the first place. You've countered your own change ZOS.

That's only true up to a point, because it is nothing new. They only have more time...

You could also say, that those who are properly defending keeps can get there in time more often to do so.

IZZEFlameLash

Stone mason emps inc?

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

Are you sure you are not gonna pull 'working as intended' in the future?

maxjapank

Katahdin wrote: »

Tonight EP was trying to take back BRK and the walls were invincible.

Some of the outer and most of the inner could not be damaged

Took them over 45 minutes to find a soft spot and seige.
It was nuts

We encountered the same at BRK with the inner door. Siege was doing zero dmg to the door. Had to move to the postern which thankfully could be dmg'd.

Enslaved

I must say if 305k is max intended lvl, 720k is kinda lol

Vicarra

In general, I'd say that the higher keep HP is a good thing and even if it wasn't intended, it is a welcome buff. I think that given how the change to resource capture has greatly benefitted zergs and PVDoorers, and the huge nerf to defensive ticks has sapped peoples' enthusiasm to bother defending their keeps, it's one of the few things that still allow defenders to feel like they're putting up something of a fight.

Let's be clear here - castles are not supposed to be easy to take. Historically, castles were designed so that they could be defended with smaller numbers than those sieging them. Just because you rock up with all of the people in your poplocked faction doesn't mean that you should be able to steamroll every castle on the map in 2 minutes flat. I don't understand, really, how anyone could even be in favour of such a system where they get no competition and no pvp because the number disparity is so great between the factions at any given time of day that the map just turns to the colour of whoever is poplocked at the time.

- Defensive ticks need to be buffed again. Getting a 5k tick for a 45 minute siege is ridiculous and demoralising.
- Keep wall and door hp needs to remain buffed (although the bugs that make it fluctuate need removing)
- Resources need to be harder to capture, perhaps with the NPCs buffed with some sort of difficulty scaling factor according to how many people are trying to capture/defend it. It should still be possible for small groups to capture these objectives, but zerging should absolutely not be rewarded the way it is being. It's already too hard to send defenders from the keep walls out to the resources to capture them after the siege has started, let's make the attackers' job a bit harder to begin with and make it more challenging.
- If wall and door HP remains high, repair kits should do a % of repairs, not a fixed amount. No one can be bothered to fully repair anymore because they're missing out on pvp action outside the keep if they do.

NupidStoob

Vilestride wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

It's been far too long that keeps were easy takes. The wall health is fine in fact it should go higher. Bursting a keep in under 1 min was stupid and not realistic. little 5 man teams that can plow through a keep was game breaking. The fact that you now have to work in larger groups to take something is refreshing. The fact that we can port to a keep without transit is game changing. The reality should always be defending something earns more reward than PV dooring something just for the sake of objective farming.

CONGRATS TO ZOS FOR FINALLY LISTENING TO THE PLAYERS

I will add the buggy up and down grades need to be fixed though.

I cant beleive this but I actually agree with taran here. I'd rather not go back to enabling bursting an undefended keep, getting in and flipping flags all within 120 seconds.

Keep fights SHOULD be long, hard contested epic events. Not a quick in and out reach around then move on.

Well yeah they should be, but they aren't. Nothing epic about spamming a siege weapon against a wall. Especially in big fights where you need 2-3 breeches to even get in there.

Nermy

No quick fix for this? Are we to endure long sieges for ever?

Sacredx

eta on hp fix?

RedGirl41

The walls HP is definitely insane but the biggest problem is counter siege. at least on PS4 NA it is now just siege vs siege for like an hour plus, nobody can get inside and its just stupid honestly. More pve than anything. counter siege hits way too hard, 17k ticks? that's insane. These castle take way to long to take. If people were worried about the PvDoor (which is a problem) they should just nerf Offensive ticks. I remember when it was actually player vs player....

Lieblingsjunge

RedGirl41 wrote: »

The walls HP is definitely insane but the biggest problem is counter siege. at least on PS4 NA it is now just siege vs siege for like an hour plus, nobody can get inside and its just stupid honestly. More pve than anything. counter siege hits way too hard, 17k ticks? that's insane. These castle take way to long to take. If people were worried about the PvDoor (which is a problem) they should just nerf Offensive ticks. I remember when it was actually player vs player....

The counter siege wouldn't be a problem if the siege was fast enough. Which is, almost, impossible to do, when a keep wall has 725k HP (And ballistas do 2k damage each shot, with 20 max... Do the maths... ) Luckily the main gate usually sits on about 225-305k, which is somewhat more reasonable to siege.

Although... I do think they should have at least 400k on maximum level, and main gates on 250k or so. The 300k is pretty low, and it doesn't give any window to go and defend. Which should ideally be the case, that the faction has some time to go back and defend.

Idk. I'm a fan of counter-siege(even though it sucks sometimes... It's good that sieges now actually make a difference, and you can actually defend a keep with sieges now!),because there *should* be tools available to defend a keep. But by the time the outer wall is down (Don't even get me started on 50/50 inner and outer walls, since it's impossible if walls have 725k hp)... Well, you won't have time to siege inner.

tl;dr: Increase wall HP to ~400k and 250k for main gates on max upgrades. Leave everything else as it is. The keeps were a joke before, with their low HP.

Crixus8000

I don't have time to repair that, my gold food will waste away lol.

Vizier

Awesome. Keep walls should be more IMO. I'd call that a happy mistake.

Nermy

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Walls are sometimes reporting above their intended 305k (at max upgrade levels) that matches prior update max HP levels. We are looking into this issue along with the HP rubber-banding at level 0 to level 1.

No fix for this? Not even in the small update this week? That's almost a month now since you have acknowledged it's wrong. How hard is it to fix?