Wolfhunter changes to pvp & Defile/Snare.

CosmicChaos

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea. To be honest playing a magplar was frustrating enough. I can't tell you how many fights I can hold the attacker off, but cannot finish them due to the lack of mobility and decent cc options with the templar. And don't get me started on Rune Focus. They nearly doubled the cost when the duration is basically the same. They did "Buff" it to 50% when you stand within. But they acknowledge having to stand inside made it useless in the fast moving fights. So basically increased increased to cost to make a useless change that won't be at all useful in endgame or pvp. So whatever. Frankly balance is one area I have zero faith in the team. It's not like they don't make changes their heads just seem to be off in left field. I was going to post and suggest they should make pvp a separate entity from pve. So you can freely go back and forth without having to switch your skills, champion points and attributes each time. And give us a 10 slot bag like the bottomless for siege items. I think that would increase the number of people who come and go from cyrodiil. At this point I don't need to since I'm just going to ignore that side of the game. Sorry for the rant their ideas are just really annoying sometimes. Always feels like 1 step forward 2 steps back. lol

If anyone from ZOS made it this far. Repair all button plz. Repairing is clunky as it is. If I have the repair crates I shouldn't need to go through that. Never do in two actions what can be managed in 1. Admittedly I run an add-on that does it for me, but I'd love to be able to remove it cause I hate having more of those installed than absolutely needed.

helios777

Adapt or die

evoniee

cmon, all annoying major defile like duroks, snb bash, snipe got nerf. and rune focus actaully get buff from 4.0.12

CosmicChaos

evoniee wrote: »

cmon, all annoying major defile like duroks, snb bash, snipe got nerf. and rune focus actaully get buff from 4.0.12

Those are only annoying to the builds that are almost impossible to take on without them. As far as Duroks that needed fixing. There rest didn't. The rune focus buff side only applies to a situation they admitted in the patch notes is messed up given the movement of the current content. So they added a buff useless in a lot of endgame content to justify nearly doubling the cost. lol.

And helios, there is another option that I specifically said I'd be taking. I don't expect them to change things to suit my needs. I'll just stay out of pvp.

Jeezye

I think you didn’t research your information well enough. Rune focus is a change, neither nerf or buff. You get full uptime on your buffs for 20 seconds without needing to step into the circle every 8 seconds, which means you don’t need to cast it half as often as you do on life, PLUS you get free resistances if you choose to stand in it. Regarding defiles and snares, they did a good job for now to tune them down. 4 seconds seems reasonable to me, though I agree that certain skills should have even lower (snipe!) or higher uptime (yes flare). However this is not gamebreaking and I’m glad they finally addressed these issues.

Juhasow

Edited.

idk

No offense but the patch we received today was on the pts for the past 5 weeks and open to feedback.

Juhasow

idk wrote: »

No offense but the patch we received today was on the pts for the past 5 weeks and open to feedback.

That doesnt stop develop[ers from ignoring the feedback.

CosmicChaos

Jeezye wrote: »

I think you didn’t research your information well enough. Rune focus is a change, neither nerf or buff. You get full uptime on your buffs for 20 seconds without needing to step into the circle every 8 seconds, which means you don’t need to cast it half as often as you do on life, PLUS you get free resistances if you choose to stand in it. Regarding defiles and snares, they did a good job for now to tune them down. 4 seconds seems reasonable to me, though I agree that certain skills should have even lower (snipe!) or higher uptime (yes flare). However this is not gamebreaking and I’m glad they finally addressed these issues.

I researched just fine. The effects of the skill are unchanged. You get the full buff without needing to be in the circle anymore as it should be. That didn't justify the cost increase. It just brought the skill in line to be useful for content that has pretty much made it a hinderance. The change came because of how useless it was having to be rooted in the small circle to begin with. So adding a new buff that functions in the manner they were already addressing as an issue and doubling the cost is just annoying imho. Though it's true its not game breaking, but Templar sustain is already annoying enough at times. Either way it is what it is.

CosmicChaos

idk wrote: »

No offense but the patch we received today was on the pts for the past 5 weeks and open to feedback.

Yes it was open to feedback. And it's true I don't follow the PTS. If you can't tell from my post at no point do I ask or expect changes to happen. My faith in their ability to balance this game went out the window a while back. lol. These changes annoyed me and I decided to rant a little. I didn't say the sky was falling or anything. Just that I was done with pvp.The Rune focus isn't going to ruin my Templar tank, I just thought it a senseless change. I mean they admit the issue with rune focus with a lot of current content is the mobility required. Then add a buff with the exact same flaw they removed from the original effect and double the cost. I guess I should be glad they didn't nerf the original buff. I could totally see ZOS changing it to give half the original all the time and the other half when in the circle. lmao

Seriously I'll get over it. And staying out of pvp solves my other issues.

Zamboo4u

There is no cost increase for rune focus. That was dropped on the PTS. You’ll find the cost is the same as before the patch only you don’t have to constantly stand in it to get the buff. If you do choose to stand in it you get even more armour. Its a good change.

IZZEFlameLash

idk wrote: »

No offense but the patch we received today was on the pts for the past 5 weeks and open to feedback.

No offense but I do not know where you get the confidence that they actually listen to any sorts of feedback? They stopped changing class and combat changes despite them saying "next update". And class rep has been a PR show.

frozywozy

CosmicChaos wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea.

Are you complaining about the reduction of snares in Cyrodiil?

CosmicChaos

Zamboo4u wrote: »

There is no cost increase for rune focus. That was dropped on the PTS. You’ll find the cost is the same as before the patch only you don’t have to constantly stand in it to get the buff. If you do choose to stand in it you get even more armour. Its a good change.

Unfortunately after logging on and checking it out. The cost increase is still in place. Just kind of annoying that they decided this increase was needed. The skill is basically unchanged just more usuable for late game content now. But meh. Thanks for replying anyways.

CosmicChaos

frozywozy wrote: »

CosmicChaos wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea.

Are you complaining about the reduction of snares in Cyrodiil?

I was complaining because it is already hard enough as a mag Templar to keep most players from fleeing when they realize they can't kill you. The other classes have a lot easier time with disengaging as it is. On top of that we'd need to apply snares and defiles more often with sustain that was already pretty rough. Personally this change just made me lose interest in pvp. With that and the stealth detection...detection. However you want to say that. lol. The direction they're heading with pvp balance doesn't interest me at this point in time. That's all.

HowlKimchi

Rune Focus costs the same as last patch.

NBrookus

As a magplar, you felt the effects of snares and defile the least. This is not to say magplars don't have issues that need to be addressed (including a functioning CC), but the snare and defile duration reduction was MUCH needed for absolutely everyone else.

There is also no cost increase for Rune, which you'd know if you logged into your templar and looked. It had a cost increase on PTS originally, we complained, it was reverted. The patch notes were not updated correctly.

IlCanis_LupuslI

CosmicChaos wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

CosmicChaos wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea.

Are you complaining about the reduction of snares in Cyrodiil?

I was complaining because it is already hard enough as a mag Templar to keep most players from fleeing when they realize they can't kill you. The other classes have a lot easier time with disengaging as it is. On top of that we'd need to apply snares and defiles more often with sustain that was already pretty rough. Personally this change just made me lose interest in pvp. With that and the stealth detection...detection. However you want to say that. lol. The direction they're heading with pvp balance doesn't interest me at this point in time. That's

CosmicChaos wrote: »

evoniee wrote: »

cmon, all annoying major defile like duroks, snb bash, snipe got nerf. and rune focus actaully get buff from 4.0.12

Those are only annoying to the builds that are almost impossible to take on without them. As far as Duroks that needed fixing. There rest didn't. The rune focus buff side only applies to a situation they admitted in the patch notes is messed up given the movement of the current content. So they added a buff useless in a lot of endgame content to justify nearly doubling the cost. lol.

And helios, there is another option that I specifically said I'd be taking. I don't expect them to change things to suit my needs. I'll just stay out of pvp.

The main reason why they nerfed snares & is that defiles is that with the previous state of pvp as a werewolf beeing perma snared and defiled survival and enjoying pvp was very limited(3-4 active werewolves in vivec atm; Xbox eu) Fighting felt like permanently wading through mud with all the snares flying around. To make it appealing to more then 1% of players in Pvp skills and sets causing a 100% uptime on snares /defiles easily needed to be nerfed. Since builds that should be affected by that(heal bots and tanks) are basically immune against it anyway.

kadar

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

This change was not made for Nightblades. A player (regardless of class) should know when an enemy player can detect them through sneak or invisibility. This was a no-brainer quality of life change.

kadar

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea. To be honest playing a magplar was frustrating enough. I can't tell you how many fights I can hold the attacker off, but cannot finish them due to the lack of mobility and decent cc options with the templar.

As a templar main, I'd think you would see the importance of making sure 100% defile up-time and 100% snare up-time are not face-roll easy to achieve. More than any other class, templars benefit from that...

fred4

Have to disagree on Rune Focus. For my playstyle it's a clear buff, as I never learnt to stay near my rune. Getting the two armor buffs and Minor Protection and Minor Vitality for 20s for about 2K magicka is an absolute bargain, when you compare it to other classes (DK, cough). I'm not compaining. I play both, and I love it (DK's got wings, templar does not). There is a whole 5-piece bonus dedicated to Minor Protection alone (Vampire's Bane), which was quite popular before Riposte, or you can get it from the Psijic Ult, which is essentially one bar only. Having it on both bars is great.

I agree with you on Dark Flare, as it has a cast time. Haven't played my stam DK, since the patch, and am even worried about Reverb Bash. I actually found stam DK quite strong in duels, before the patch, but I think Reverb Bash has a lot to do with that.

Regarding the stealth indicator, my NB is still caught out at times. The only time you really did not know you were detected is when someone used detection potions. The targeting cursor can indicate you are successfully cloaked, but people with potions can see you anyway. Of course, should you be fleeing, and they are behind you, then you still won't see the eye. On the other hand Magelight and other forms of stealth detection knock you out of cloak, so there was never any doubt. When I use a detection potion myself, the eye seems to pop up as soon as I point at any NPC, in IC, in other words all the time. I only find it useless and irritating.

In terms of finishing people off, which part of the 330%->480% Radiant Destruction buff do you not like?

NBrookus

The_Outsider wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

This change was not made for Nightblades. A player (regardless of class) should know when an enemy player can detect them through sneak or invisibility. This was a no-brainer quality of life change.

The solution was the detect eye being open, not a big red pointer at who was detecting you.

Might as well put the detection circles around everyone like in Hew's Bane.

kadar

NBrookus wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

This change was not made for Nightblades. A player (regardless of class) should know when an enemy player can detect them through sneak or invisibility. This was a no-brainer quality of life change.

The solution was the detect eye being open, not a big red pointer at who was detecting you.

Might as well put the detection circles around everyone like in Hew's Bane.

Maybe that could work yea. I don't really see the big red pointer changing much as far as these engagements go. The fleeing whatever is just going to keep fleeing regardless of whether they know who in particular can see them IMO

Kadoin

CosmicChaos wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

CosmicChaos wrote: »

I really don't know what they are thinking. First off......Showing an indicator above players who can see stealth? NBs can already have sufficient movement to evade while stealthed. All this did was render detections useless. To my knowledge none of the detections reach anywhere near the 40m range skills have in pvp. So I can't begin to understand how they thought this was a good idea or even a reasonable one.

To top it off instead of just fixing Durok's Bane they made skills like Dark Flare even more useless than it already was. Dark Flare has a cast time and only lasted for 6 seconds to begin with. Not to mention a decent cost. And yet they decided reducing it's duration along with every other slow and heal reduction in the game was a good idea.

Are you complaining about the reduction of snares in Cyrodiil?

I was complaining because it is already hard enough as a mag Templar to keep most players from fleeing when they realize they can't kill you. The other classes have a lot easier time with disengaging as it is. On top of that we'd need to apply snares and defiles more often with sustain that was already pretty rough. Personally this change just made me lose interest in pvp. With that and the stealth detection...detection. However you want to say that. lol. The direction they're heading with pvp balance doesn't interest me at this point in time. That's all.

Actually, I enjoy the reduction on my magplar. Life is good without having to worry about being perma-defiled by a zerg. Having to spam purify all the time was stupid and a waste of magicka and time. I honestly just left defile on because purifying it was stupid when there were 10+ debuffs on. So far, my survivability keeps going up every patch , and especially this one thanks to ZOS changes. I honestly cannot see how any magplar would be complaining about snare and defile changes.

Who cares if someone can run away? Anyone with a speed build can and your jabs wont be touching them anyway. If you have a problem "catching" people, then why don't you use a ranged weapon OR slot all ranged skills? Nothing stops you...There are also other things you can do as well...

I will never understand how anyone can think "balance" means that they always have to win or have an advantage. But you are entitled to your opinion...