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Vykosa monster set feels like a missed opportunity. Underwhelming
profundidob16_ESO
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It's nothing new that a new set being release is useless and even pointless. But this one after the last change is a actually a very interesting mechanic and has the potential for tanks to use some skill into mitigating boss dmge. But then if you look at the poor or rather absent stats and moreover the long CD and only 3sec application there is no reason to set actual useful tank monster sets such as Lord warden/Mighty Chudan aside for this:
-The major maim only lasts only 3 seconds on a 15 seconds CD, not accounting for server lag and the fact that high dmge by boss often lasts several seconds.
-For each application of the extra 15% you'll need to invest resources by using a taunt skill, then invest some more by doing a bash where it's normally not needed
-Probably the worst: no health or resistance stats on the set !
I really feel this set is a missed chance because the mechanic could potentially add variation and skill to every day tanking, making the role more active and dynamic instead of static and boring.
I tried the set and whenever I really want to use the 2piece bonus it's down because some smaller mob just used a special and I had to bash it so it triggered the major maim and now I'm on CD
Also when a boss is about to do a big boom skill that lasts 3 seconds on it's own I have to calculate in server lag and launch the bash well before he starts his dmge to make sure it's being mitigated. Result is that you only mitigate 1-2sec of the boss skill. It should last at least 5 seconds on a boss to be practically useful
Then stats-wise and for reference I'll take my existing preferred monster set:
Mighty Chudan Set
(1 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(1 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(2 items) Gain Major Ward and Major Resolve at all times, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280.
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
To make the Vykosa set comparable and really useful we would need something like this:
Vykosa
(1 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(1 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(2 items) Apply Major maim on target mob for 5 seconds. 10 Seconds CD
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
this way you would kind of trade the safe permanently present dmge mitigation from Mighty Chudan 2-piece bonus for a skill-based temporary dmge mitigation in the moments where you think you need them most, and then time your bashes well in order to have the skill up at the moment where you really want it to trigger.
Edited by profundidob16_ESO on August 7, 2018 9:53AM -The major maim only lasts only 3 seconds on a 15 seconds CD, not accounting for server lag and the fact that high dmge by boss often lasts several seconds.
-For each application of the extra 15% you'll need to invest resources by using a taunt skill, then invest some more by doing a bash where it's normally not needed
-Probably the worst: no health or resistance stats on the set !
I really feel this set is a missed chance because the mechanic could potentially add variation and skill to every day tanking, making the role more active and dynamic instead of static and boring.
I tried the set and whenever I really want to use the 2piece bonus it's down because some smaller mob just used a special and I had to bash it so it triggered the major maim and now I'm on CD
Also when a boss is about to do a big boom skill that lasts 3 seconds on it's own I have to calculate in server lag and launch the bash well before he starts his dmge to make sure it's being mitigated. Result is that you only mitigate 1-2sec of the boss skill. It should last at least 5 seconds on a boss to be practically usefulThen stats-wise and for reference I'll take my existing preferred monster set:
Mighty Chudan Set
(1 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(1 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(2 items) Gain Major Ward and Major Resolve at all times, increasing your Physical and Spell Resistance by 5280.
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
To make the Vykosa set comparable and really useful we would need something like this:
Vykosa
(1 items) Adds 2975 Spell Resistance
(1 items) Adds 2975 Physical Resistance
(2 items) Apply Major maim on target mob for 5 seconds. 10 Seconds CD
(2 items) Adds 1206 Max Health
this way you would kind of trade the safe permanently present dmge mitigation from Mighty Chudan 2-piece bonus for a skill-based temporary dmge mitigation in the moments where you think you need them most, and then time your bashes well in order to have the skill up at the moment where you really want it to trigger.
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Kikke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Or we can keep as is? As I know alot of tanks that are waiting for it.Cleared Trials:
- vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -
"The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
-Someone said it, I guess.1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭But I've been theorycrafting for the one piece bonus since it will finally allow us to surpass 160% healing taken...
Easily the most powerful 1 piece healing bonus in the entire game.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭possibly yes but honestly is healing taken even a problem on tanks ? I main both healer and tank and on my optimized healer I easily compensate for no +healing taken on tanks so that the tank can focus his build on dmge prevention and mitigation.
In other words as tank I don't need +healing. It's more like a (luxury) bonus. Health however prevents 1 shots and resistances are essential because they are dmge mitigation
Also some mobs (monster spiders in Cloudrest for instance) debuff your healing taken. Rather have more health or defensesEdited by profundidob16_ESO on August 7, 2018 11:50AM1 -
Amdar_Godkiller✭✭✭✭✭In PVP, healing taken is vital for any tanky build that wants to be able to self-heal with 3K vigor ticks.
It stacks with major and minor vitality and works mulitiplicative with all other healing buffs.
So the question is, if this set is used in PVP in conjuction with a taunt on a player, will it proc major maim on the player? I doubt it. If not, then this set needs a different 1 piece bonus, I agree, but if it does, then this is meant to be run in PVP, and it has the perfect 1 piece bonus
Still, I think the maim should be longer and the cooldown shorter, as Warden's are able to apply Major Maim every CC cooldown for 4 seconds using Frozen Device. It needs to at least approach 40% uptime I think. 4 second duration with a 10 secon cooldown is what I think it should be. This could be stretched to 56% uptime using Jorvuld which would be too OP in PVP but very strong in PVE I think (especially maelstrom arena and dragonstar)0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Juhasow , didn't he? I think he mentioned in the first post that he gave it a test-drive (on PTS, logically).0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?
In Fungal Grotto I ? There is testing and TESTING. Also If You dont know that Major maim will not change much for tank because of how damage mitigation is calculated. Basicly there are situations where this 30% in fact will result in lowering tank dmg taken by 5-10%. What this set have chance to be useful in is protecting group members and tank from occasional hard hitting mechanics rather then beeing brainlesly applied debuff. As for smaller mobs goes well if they're taunnted on you most of the time You either dont have to bash them because You'll survive whatever they'll throw on You or You can use deep breath.Edited by Juhasow on August 7, 2018 12:44PM0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »In PVP, healing taken is vital for any tanky build that wants to be able to self-heal with 3K vigor ticks.
It stacks with major and minor vitality and works mulitiplicative with all other healing buffs.
So the question is, if this set is used in PVP in conjuction with a taunt on a player, will it proc major maim on the player? I doubt it. If not, then this set needs a different 1 piece bonus, I agree, but if it does, then this is meant to be run in PVP, and it has the perfect 1 piece bonus
Still, I think the maim should be longer and the cooldown shorter, as Warden's are able to apply Major Maim every CC cooldown for 4 seconds using Frozen Device. It needs to at least approach 40% uptime I think. 4 second duration with a 10 secon cooldown is what I think it should be. This could be stretched to 56% uptime using Jorvuld which would be too OP in PVP but very strong in PVE I think (especially maelstrom arena and dragonstar)
you're right in pvp it's a different story but if this set is meant as a pvp-only set then it's even more of a missed opportunity imho. Still I agree. Your proposal of 4 seconds duration on a 10 second CD would indeed make the 2-piece set bonus workable in pve, aside from the stats aspect0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?
In Fungal Grotto I ? There is testing and TESTING. Also If You dont know that Major maim will not change much for tank because of how damage mitigation is calculated. Basicly there are situations where this 30% in fact will result in lowering tank dmg taken by 5-10%. What this set have chance to be useful in is protecting group members and tank from occasional hard hitting mechanics rather then beeing brainlesly applied debuff.
In a min maxing build even as low as 10% extra mitigation is awesome ! And in your group setup I suppose you'll be requiring those dps/healer group members to equip and use a taunt as well as invest in bash cost reduction ? Right...Edited by profundidob16_ESO on August 7, 2018 12:46PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?
In Fungal Grotto I ? There is testing and TESTING. Also If You dont know that Major maim will not change much for tank because of how damage mitigation is calculated. Basicly there are situations where this 30% in fact will result in lowering tank dmg taken by 5-10%. What this set have chance to be useful in is protecting group members and tank from occasional hard hitting mechanics rather then beeing brainlesly applied debuff.
In a min maxing build even as low as 10% extra mitigation is awesome ! And in your group setup I suppose you'll be requiring those dps/healer group members to equip and use a taunt as well as invest in bash cost reduction ? Right...
You do realize what major maim is doing ? It applies debuff on enemie so he'll deal less dmg to everyone , so if tank have Vykosa and use it all group members will take less dmg which can be very usefull in certain boss fights. in fact DDs and healers which are not mitigation specs will receive bigger mitigation from that major maim then tank.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?
In Fungal Grotto I ? There is testing and TESTING. Also If You dont know that Major maim will not change much for tank because of how damage mitigation is calculated. Basicly there are situations where this 30% in fact will result in lowering tank dmg taken by 5-10%. What this set have chance to be useful in is protecting group members and tank from occasional hard hitting mechanics rather then beeing brainlesly applied debuff.
In a min maxing build even as low as 10% extra mitigation is awesome ! And in your group setup I suppose you'll be requiring those dps/healer group members to equip and use a taunt as well as invest in bash cost reduction ? Right...
You do realize what major maim is doing ? It applies debuff on enemie so he'll deal less dmg to everyone , so if tank have Vykosa and use it all group members will take less dmg which can be very usefull in certain boss fights. in fact DDs and healers which are not mitigation specs will receive bigger mitigation from that major maim then tank.
God I hope you are not just trolling but from the looks of it english is not your native language -just as it is not for me btw- so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that your misunderstandings are legit so I'll clarify to the point where mistakes become impossible:
Yes, I'm fully aware of what major maim does and was before posting this. Yes, I'm aware that the effect of the 30% dmge reduction from all boss outgoing dmge has alot more impact on the other group members than on the tank which is exactly the reason in the first place why I posted this and why I find this mechanic so interesting if it can be made usable/workable in practise.
My statement is that I tested it and it's not working good enough to be useful in practise in it's current form and not worth it to drop other useful monsters sets that also offer protections which in turn help save the group in an other (indirect) way. Try the monster set for yourself and see with your own eyes on PTS if you don't believe me. It looks good in theory and on paper but not in practise. I have explained the details here as to why it is not workable.
Bottomline I would gladly see this set become a worthy monster set for tanks in pve to protect their group during large phases of huge wide area boss dmge that tends to 1-shot people like for instance the six sword assault special attack and spinning/whirlwind attacks from Ra Kotu (first boss vHRC). It's just an example, there are many others. Without further changes I feel this is a missed opportunity. That's my message towards the devs. @ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope you see now that everything else you tried to drag into this thread so far is not even relevant. If you reread this thread now perhaps it will be clearer. If still not, God knows I sincerely tried and hereby give up on enlightening you.
ps: as I write this I see other people too are starting to make threads about this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/429361/vykosa-set-is-really-bad#latest0 -
LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hmmm ... I don't know, I can see what I think are some pretty legitimate places where Vykosa would work in PvE.
For instance, Rockheaver in vSO. If the tank bashes him right before he goes into his triple ground pound, that'd be a big help to DPS. Might not be relevant to top groups but for your average raid group, that boss and that mechanic are a vitality killer. Or The Warrior right before fireworks. Hell, even Mantikora right before popcorn. Steamers in vHoF maybe? Or right before steam phase in execute on Assembly General HM?
Obviously just spitballing but I'm guessing there are a handful of places where it would be pretty nice.
So I guess the common theme here is that it might be viable on burst damage mechanics that are dangerous to DPS/healers but not necessarily to tanks.Edited by LiquidPony on August 7, 2018 5:46PM1 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »profundidob16_ESO wrote: »
Maybe You should also first try and use it before judging ?
Maybe you should first read the post before commenting so you would know I HAVE ?
In Fungal Grotto I ? There is testing and TESTING. Also If You dont know that Major maim will not change much for tank because of how damage mitigation is calculated. Basicly there are situations where this 30% in fact will result in lowering tank dmg taken by 5-10%. What this set have chance to be useful in is protecting group members and tank from occasional hard hitting mechanics rather then beeing brainlesly applied debuff.
In a min maxing build even as low as 10% extra mitigation is awesome ! And in your group setup I suppose you'll be requiring those dps/healer group members to equip and use a taunt as well as invest in bash cost reduction ? Right...
You do realize what major maim is doing ? It applies debuff on enemie so he'll deal less dmg to everyone , so if tank have Vykosa and use it all group members will take less dmg which can be very usefull in certain boss fights. in fact DDs and healers which are not mitigation specs will receive bigger mitigation from that major maim then tank.
God I hope you are not just trolling but from the looks of it english is not your native language -just as it is not for me btw- so I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt that your misunderstandings are legit so I'll clarify to the point where mistakes become impossible:
Yes, I'm fully aware of what major maim does and was before posting this. Yes, I'm aware that the effect of the 30% dmge reduction from all boss outgoing dmge has alot more impact on the other group members than on the tank which is exactly the reason in the first place why I posted this and why I find this mechanic so interesting if it can be made usable/workable in practise.
My statement is that I tested it and it's not working good enough to be useful in practise in it's current form and not worth it to drop other useful monsters sets that also offer protections which in turn help save the group in an other (indirect) way. Try the monster set for yourself and see with your own eyes on PTS if you don't believe me. It looks good in theory and on paper but not in practise. I have explained the details here as to why it is not workable.
Bottomline I would gladly see this set become a worthy monster set for tanks in pve to protect their group during large phases of huge wide area boss dmge that tends to 1-shot people like for instance the six sword assault special attack and spinning/whirlwind attacks from Ra Kotu (first boss vHRC). It's just an example, there are many others. Without further changes I feel this is a missed opportunity. That's my message towards the devs. @ZOS_GinaBruno
I hope you see now that everything else you tried to drag into this thread so far is not even relevant. If you reread this thread now perhaps it will be clearer. If still not, God knows I sincerely tried and hereby give up on enlightening you.
ps: as I write this I see other people too are starting to make threads about this:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/429361/vykosa-set-is-really-bad#latest
I think You should check not only Your knowledge of english but also simple question / answer relations. You asked quote "And in your group setup I suppose you'll be requiring those dps/healer group members to equip and use a taunt as well as invest in bash cost reduction ? " which was suggesting You think that I think it will be usefull for DD or healer so I responded why it wont.
Fact You dont see any scenarios where the set can be usefull doesnt mean there arent any. For example vHoF HM execute phase with 2 tanks wearing Vykosa and healers using Nova , rotation will be : tank 1 vykosa , tank 2 vykosa , healer 1 Nova , tank 1 vykosa , tank 2 vykosa , healer 2 nova , tank 1 vykosa , tank 2 vykosa. That is 36 seconds of almost constant Major Maim on boss and more then half of it is from Vykosa. For some teams that will basicly meaning finishing of the trial. This is just an example which You can find much more of.
As for group surviving vHRC 1st boss spinning seriously get real. Sets should help people to complete content not complete content for them by allowing to bypass mechanics.
Edited by Juhasow on August 7, 2018 11:04PM0 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Hmmm ... I don't know, I can see what I think are some pretty legitimate places where Vykosa would work in PvE.
For instance, Rockheaver in vSO. If the tank bashes him right before he goes into his triple ground pound, that'd be a big help to DPS. Might not be relevant to top groups but for your average raid group, that boss and that mechanic are a vitality killer. Or The Warrior right before fireworks. Hell, even Mantikora right before popcorn. Steamers in vHoF maybe? Or right before steam phase in execute on Assembly General HM?
Obviously just spitballing but I'm guessing there are a handful of places where it would be pretty nice.
So I guess the common theme here is that it might be viable on burst damage mechanics that are dangerous to DPS/healers but not necessarily to tanks.
You know tanks dont need any new fancy mitigation sets that much when they're starting to borrow sets designed for DDs like Alkosh.
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LiquidPony✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »Hmmm ... I don't know, I can see what I think are some pretty legitimate places where Vykosa would work in PvE.
For instance, Rockheaver in vSO. If the tank bashes him right before he goes into his triple ground pound, that'd be a big help to DPS. Might not be relevant to top groups but for your average raid group, that boss and that mechanic are a vitality killer. Or The Warrior right before fireworks. Hell, even Mantikora right before popcorn. Steamers in vHoF maybe? Or right before steam phase in execute on Assembly General HM?
Obviously just spitballing but I'm guessing there are a handful of places where it would be pretty nice.
So I guess the common theme here is that it might be viable on burst damage mechanics that are dangerous to DPS/healers but not necessarily to tanks.
You know tanks dont need any new fancy mitigation sets that much when they're starting to borrow sets designed for DDs like Alkosh.
Right? I watched a tank handle The Warrior in vHRC HM tonight in Powerful Assault and Alkosh.0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Hmmm ... I don't know, I can see what I think are some pretty legitimate places where Vykosa would work in PvE.
For instance, Rockheaver in vSO. If the tank bashes him right before he goes into his triple ground pound, that'd be a big help to DPS. Might not be relevant to top groups but for your average raid group, that boss and that mechanic are a vitality killer. Or The Warrior right before fireworks. Hell, even Mantikora right before popcorn. Steamers in vHoF maybe? Or right before steam phase in execute on Assembly General HM?
Obviously just spitballing but I'm guessing there are a handful of places where it would be pretty nice.
So I guess the common theme here is that it might be viable on burst damage mechanics that are dangerous to DPS/healers but not necessarily to tanks.
You know tanks dont need any new fancy mitigation sets that much when they're starting to borrow sets designed for DDs like Alkosh.
Right? I watched a tank handle The Warrior in vHRC HM tonight in Powerful Assault and Alkosh.
Tanks indeed don't need any new set but that's not why new sets such as these are being introduced into the game. They create opportunities such as for instance the tank compensating for dps/healers that are not skilled enough to survive by themselves certain boss phases, even though they should. Sets like these -when used skillfully- could allow tanks to provide an even better service, even though that was never strictly needed in the first place.
Anyway this opportunity is for sure missed. Last night I wore and thoroughly tested the set again all the way through vMHK as we completed it and it's just not working at all in practise. In fact this set felt completely useless as any serious pve content you have to avoid,dodge, run and do mechanics making it impossible to bash when you want/need to. In fact quite the contrary is happening. Other mechanics continuously require you to bash and waste the CD. What a shame, another useless set in the bank 0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel the need to point out that if Chudan is your current preferred monster set, then that's why you don't see the potential behind this new set.
Because Chudan is literally the worst monster set for tanks.3