Need for Guild Homes

cicisch

Dear Zeni,

I write this post to you to urge you to add in a guild house functionality for large guilds.

I am a leader in a 450+ person guild whose former GM stepped down within the past week. We had been anticipating him stepping down as GM. We had not anticipated him leaving the guild and taking his home with him.

In this person's home was a crowd-funded full set of attunables (every set in the game), all Mundus Stones, Banker, Merchant, training dummies, and a transmute station. I personally invested millions of gold and dozens of hours into this home. All of this was lost in one fell swoop when the GM left the guild. Thanks to the generosity of our members, we've largely recovered and are over 50% done with rebuilding our home. This post isn't an appeal for you to move items or a cry for help. This is about preventing this situation from happening to other guilds.

Guilds should be able to unlock a guild home at a certain member threshold, similar to how unlocking heraldry, the bank, and a guild store works. The ability to purchase a Guild Home can be a specific permission and can work similar to how hiring a trader works, where you can use gold in the guild bank to purchase a home (or use a crown store home and have the ability to set it as a guild home or a player home - this might require additional functionality).

IF this were to be implemented in the future, the numerous guilds who have already set up guild halls tied to player accounts should not be forced to repeat the process! There should be a system set up to allow for a transition of a guild hall from a player account to a guild that the GM or a rank with the permission can use to move account bound items such as Mundus Stones and attunable stations.

Guilds are a core function of ESO, as is housing. I think this is a necessary change that will help people in guild management and ultimately help the longevity and quality of life in the game.

Horowonnoe

So agree! This would be a wonderful addition to the housing functionality and has been asked for by players for almost a year now.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you!

Dubhradh

I highly agree. In the game I played before this (SWTOR) it already had a guild hall system implemented, but they didn't have a feature which would allow the transition of a house to being the guild hall, which is something I feel is needed in a community which is as established as the one in ESO.

Acrolas

It's been abundantly clear from the beginning that player housing instances were not communally owned, even if designated as a "guild hall".

I do fault guild owners who lure members of their guild into donating by using a false sense of security. But I also fault any player who failed to see the risk given how the system is set up. If your entire guild cannot fit into the instance, it's not a guild hall. You're an authorized guest at your guildmaster's personal housing instance.

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.


The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

Revi_Nightfire wrote: »

OP never stated that he attempted to arbitrate. Your next statement is also baseless if you were posting a few years back before storage chests were implemented this may have been "don't expect storage chests to happen because there are already several third party ways to store items without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing banking system."

There are no third-party storage solutions. It's functionally impossible to store in-game items outside of the game.

Revi_Nightfire wrote: »

I dont know who this pompous post was addressing but it clearly wasn't the OP, but please stop putting words in OP's mouth and being pompous in an effort to debase him and elevate yourself.

I find it strange that you know the meaning of the word you're parroting and yet you're still using it incorrectly based on what was actually said in the thread. I make mistakes all the time. I don't expect the world to change because I make them. I expect to take personal accountability for the actions I've taken, understand how and why they happened, learn from them, and not repeat them with the assumption that next time will be different.

Let people get angry. They'll be over it in five minutes.

Tasear

Would personally like to transition a house into a guild house. I don't even think capacity are even a issue.

Hmm thinking of it more would add features inside guild houses like quests for guild, buffs, things for sell or for free. Board to collect dps results. Guild rotation for classes to rent or borrow depending on guild contributes. ( Reading to much wuxia but it could work!)

/Dreams

cicisch

Acrolas wrote: »

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.

The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

@Acrolas We actually did contact Zenimax to see if there was any way we could transfer the items and we were told no. And (I kid you not), the person who was GM wrote in his will that our now current GM would get the guild should anything happen to him. So formal contract wise, I think that is about as serious as it gets.

We have a very active discord that we use for meetings, but we also have a lot of activities that necessitate a guild hall. And again, the point of this isn't to ask ZOS to fix anything in this situation, but rather to point out a flaw in the system that could use addressing.

FreshlyB8ked

Couldn’t agree more with OP. This feature would be awesome.

Horowonnoe

Acrolas wrote: »

It's been abundantly clear from the beginning that player housing instances were not communally owned, even if designated as a "guild hall".

I do fault guild owners who lure members of their guild into donating by using a false sense of security. But I also fault any player who failed to see the risk given how the system is set up. If your entire guild cannot fit into the instance, it's not a guild hall. You're an authorized guest at your guildmaster's personal housing instance.

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.


The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

I dont think you understand what was said. OP was not asking for return of items. She was simply asking for a functionality which many players in ESO would love to have.

Newpoint

Acrolas wrote: »

It's been abundantly clear from the beginning that player housing instances were not communally owned, even if designated as a "guild hall".

I do fault guild owners who lure members of their guild into donating by using a false sense of security. But I also fault any player who failed to see the risk given how the system is set up. If your entire guild cannot fit into the instance, it's not a guild hall. You're an authorized guest at your guildmaster's personal housing instance.

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.


The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

What a pompous reply. No matter. I agree OP, guild houses owned by guilds are long over due, along with an expansion of the amount of players allowed. Fingers crossed.

Runs

What if the guild leader just flat out kicks everyone after they have donated to the new guild housing?

Or what about someone who made their home, with all attuned stations/mundus stones/target dummies themselves and then is forced to take an extended leave of absense in which someone else is given, by ZOS, ownership of guild? And then possibly even kicked out of the guild.

Newpoint

Runs wrote: »

What if the guild leader just flat out kicks everyone after they have donated to the new guild housing?

Or what about someone who made their home, with all attuned stations/mundus stones/target dummies themselves and then is forced to take an extended leave of absense in which someone else is given, by ZOS, ownership of guild? And then possibly even kicked out of the guild.

1. Pretty sure that would be easily rectified by ZOS seeing its a guild house and not a personally owned house if all the sudden a single person was a guild. To be honest I'm not even sure if that's possible.

2. That's a personal home, no one is giving away a personal home.

Runs

Newpoint wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

What if the guild leader just flat out kicks everyone after they have donated to the new guild housing?

Or what about someone who made their home, with all attuned stations/mundus stones/target dummies themselves and then is forced to take an extended leave of absense in which someone else is given, by ZOS, ownership of guild? And then possibly even kicked out of the guild.

1. Pretty sure that would be easily rectified by ZOS seeing its a guild house and not a personally owned house if all the sudden a single person was a guild. To be honest I'm not even sure if that's possible.

2. That's a personal home, no one is giving away a personal home.

My examples are in the system OP is proposing. One of the proposels is to tie a personal home to being a guild home.

cicisch

@Runs, there is a reason I suggested it be locked behind a certain number of members. Similar to guild bank access, you would lose access to the house if guild membership dips below that threshold. I don't know exactly how many people would be appropriate.

cicisch

Runs wrote: »

My examples are in the system OP is proposing. One of the proposels is to tie a personal home to being a guild home.

That's how the system works now, with a personal home being tied to a guild hall. The system I want would make the actual guild the owner, much like a personal bank vs a guild bank.

Newpoint

Runs wrote: »

Newpoint wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

What if the guild leader just flat out kicks everyone after they have donated to the new guild housing?

Or what about someone who made their home, with all attuned stations/mundus stones/target dummies themselves and then is forced to take an extended leave of absense in which someone else is given, by ZOS, ownership of guild? And then possibly even kicked out of the guild.

1. Pretty sure that would be easily rectified by ZOS seeing its a guild house and not a personally owned house if all the sudden a single person was a guild. To be honest I'm not even sure if that's possible.

2. That's a personal home, no one is giving away a personal home.

My examples are in the system OP is proposing. One of the proposels is to tie a personal home to being a guild home.

Gotcha, I'm sure thats meaning someone donates a personal home to the guild and that's it, Its owned by the guild now. No take backs just like donating items to the guild.

cicisch

@Newpoint, exactly, especially with so many wonderful crown homes, there should be a way to essentially gift a house to a guild

Acrolas

cicisch wrote: »

@Acrolas We actually did contact Zenimax to see if there was any way we could transfer the items and we were told no. And (I kid you not), the person who was GM wrote in his will that our now current GM would get the guild should anything happen to him. So formal contract wise, I think that is about as serious as it gets.

We have a very active discord that we use for meetings, but we also have a lot of activities that necessitate a guild hall. And again, the point of this isn't to ask ZOS to fix anything in this situation, but rather to point out a flaw in the system that could use addressing.

But there was no flaw in the housing system. There was an incorrect assumption.

The contract wouldn't have been for actual item transfer, per se. It would have existed so that breach of contract could have been established and then followed up in a complicated small claims court case. But then there's the whole issue of whether a contract that can't be fulfilled can be breached. That would include the will. You can't legally give somebody else's existing legal property to somebody else in your will. So while guild ownership could have been transferred per that request, none of your old GM's in-game assets would have as those would have been permanently stuck on that account for the remainder of the game's life.

I know that was a headache to read, but I'm trying to show how messy this is without even factoring in the other 498 people. The limitations of the current guild system allow ZOS to remain neutral. A good general guideline is that all player interactions in this game are at your own risk so proceed with caution and a good dose of skepticism.

Newpoint wrote: »

What a pompous reply.

Arguing from evidence as opposed to emotion isn't pompous. Blunt, perhaps. But this isn't the first time I've said that there's no such thing as guild housing in ESO.

Revi_Nightfire

Horowonnoe wrote: »

It's been abundantly clear from the beginning that player housing instances were not communally owned, even if designated as a "guild hall".

OP never once states that it was unclear? Why was this necessary?

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I do fault guild owners who lure members of their guild into donating by using a false sense of security. But I also fault any player who failed to see the risk given how the system is set up. If your entire guild cannot fit into the instance, it's not a guild hall. You're an authorized guest at your guildmaster's personal housing instance.

Who cares who YOU fault? He is suggesting features to HAVE guilds communally owned.

Horowonnoe wrote: »

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.

OP never stated that he attempted to arbitrate. Your next statement is also baseless if you were posting a few years back before storage chests were implemented this may have been "don't expect storage chests to happen because there are already several third party ways to store items without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing banking system."

Horowonnoe wrote: »

The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

or....when they do something like OP suggests?

I dont know who this pompous post was addressing but it clearly wasn't the OP, but please stop putting words in OP's mouth and being pompous in an effort to debase him and elevate yourself.

kargen27

Acrolas wrote: »

It's been abundantly clear from the beginning that player housing instances were not communally owned, even if designated as a "guild hall".

I do fault guild owners who lure members of their guild into donating by using a false sense of security. But I also fault any player who failed to see the risk given how the system is set up. If your entire guild cannot fit into the instance, it's not a guild hall. You're an authorized guest at your guildmaster's personal housing instance.

I don't expect ZOS to arbitrate, particularly as there was seemingly no formal contract for transfer of in-game item ownership to a new guildmaster should the old one retire. And I don't expect guild halls to happen because there are already several third party ways to assemble a large quantity of guild members without directly impacting game performance or complicating the existing housing system.


The situation will stop happening when enough people get burned and learn to only donate to their guild what they're willing to lose. As you suggest, this lesson was not learned the first time around.

This pretty much misses the entire point made in the opening post. He is asking for a way to designate a home as a guild hall so guild members do not need to rely on another player. One of the best features of functionality in homes is the ability to craft set pieces. That functionality is expensive though and it makes good sense that a guild work together to create a home where they can do master writs, craft set pieces, transmute items, change mundus stones, make potions and all that fun stuff without every member of the guild having to do it in their own individual home.

Runs

cicisch wrote: »

Runs wrote: »

My examples are in the system OP is proposing. One of the proposels is to tie a personal home to being a guild home.

That's how the system works now, with a personal home being tied to a guild hall. The system I want would make the actual guild the owner, much like a personal bank vs a guild bank.

Yes. And what happens when the guild owns the home that the guild owner himself has put all the time and money and gold into, then he loses ownership of guild through no fault of his own?

Or if everyone contributes what happens when he kicks the contributors?

Salvas_Aren

If the former GM intents to grant access to the *guild hall* he would do it.

Just hand the new guild leaderboard the decoration rights and set the visitor rules to private except for guild.


I would support the OP's idea, but with one specific demand: It would be cool, if everybody could access their housing chests there.

Let's say, the GM places them in a matching place. You can see them, to open them you have to own the corresponding chests yourself.

Runs

In order for no one to get screwed ZOS would have to allow donations of actual furnishings(even bound ones) that are then returned to the player who donated them when they are no longer in the guild.

Revi_Nightfire

Runs wrote: »

In order for no one to get screwed ZOS would have to allow donations of actual furnishings(even bound ones) that are then returned to the player who donated them when they are no longer in the guild.

I would love to see something like this. It would be nice if a decorator could place their own furniture and when said decorator leaves those items return to the decorator.

Compare to when you have Auction items posted and leave a guild those items return to you.

starkerealm

We talked to ZOS about guild halls. There are a few reasons why we can't simply designate a guildie's home as the hall, so with that in mind, here are some suggestions.

First, yes, I'd love to see guild housing, but I don't think it would fit neatly within the existing housing systems, so the first major thing would be saying: We need new world spaces for this.

My vote would be for several halls in each alliance. You have a basic one that unlocks when you hit 50 members (or something similar.) This might be as small as a warehouse, with a few rooms, or it could be an actual hall. Ideally, there should be one of these for each alliance, picked based on the guild's alliance.

After that, every upgrade is handled through a donation UI. At this point, players would sink resources (crafting mats, gold, possibly even crowns) into the guild.

Guild officers can designate projects, like setting up a meeting room, a training area (with dummies), or a crafting area, or adding cosmetic improvements to the hall.

So, for example, you might want to add a set of attunable stations to the guild hall, so one of the officers (with the appropriate permissions) sets up the active projects, and as a guild member you can contribute to the project.

The officer picks Torug's Pact, this requires guild members to donate 1k vouchers, along with 200 heartwood, and 1k racial style stones. So, individual guild members could contribute to that, as they're able. If someone has 50 vouchers, they can chuck those in there, if another has 10k, they could pay the whole value in one go.

Once the project is completed, those set stations are available in the hall in a pre-selected location, that is not user adjustable. So that there's some basic standardization to the layout. Possibly, even the crafting hall being a single set of stations, where the player can page through the available sets in the crafting UI, rather than needing to find the right stations in a massive room. We could have a fairly compact room, with a handful of stations that handle multiple sets.

This could also include additional services we don't currently have in game, such as full function bankers (with guild store access), merchants, navigators (with access to a wider array of areas.) Those merchants could even include inventory we can't see outside of guilds, like access to AP or Tel Var merchants without needing to venture into Cyrodiil, or even having The Golden and Luxury Vendors swing by on the weekends, if they've been recruited. Possibly even give the guild the option to hire Rollis Hlaluu, for less load screen intensive master writ turn ins.

It would also be possible to include things like the standing stones, with the crown costs being distributed across multiple players. Additional, larger guild halls could be purchased (probably through specific guild milestones), transferring the unlocked functionality from the starter ones to larger halls. With larger halls, having more space for functional upgrade, such as the specialty vendors mentioned above, or maybe even a trophy room that allows the guild to unlock various trophies.

The big takeaway would be, the hall would need to function as an systemic end point. Money and resources go in, but they can't be taken out by another player. I'd also suggest that the decorator systems be streamlined down to picking a motif for a room, and leaving it at that, rather than asking players to tinker with it directly.

MilwaukeeScott

Yes, please.

xericdx

Very cool idea, although I can imagine that ZOS would be scared of managing such a baby and the complaints that will follow (guild disbands, who gets the items? Can someone like GM teal everything from the house? Etc) . I do like the idea, dont get me wrong. Just will be difficult to find a good compromise on a shared ownership system and ultimately it s a matter of trust in the Guild.

Regardless of how it is implemented, we do need guild hall functionalities. Even if on a private house designated as Guild House by the GM. Message boards for events, Guild Store, etc etc etc... So many options ...

Please...

DocFrost72

+1 Cici

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Acrolas wrote: »

cicisch wrote: »

@Acrolas We actually did contact Zenimax to see if there was any way we could transfer the items and we were told no. And (I kid you not), the person who was GM wrote in his will that our now current GM would get the guild should anything happen to him. So formal contract wise, I think that is about as serious as it gets.

We have a very active discord that we use for meetings, but we also have a lot of activities that necessitate a guild hall. And again, the point of this isn't to ask ZOS to fix anything in this situation, but rather to point out a flaw in the system that could use addressing.

But there was no flaw in the housing system. There was an incorrect assumption.

I truly believe there is a flaw. The guild master could have wanted to give the items to their old guild, but has no system to do so. Considering it was crowd funded, and we don't know specifics, I would be comfortable making the asertion that this could be seen as a flaw.

The limitations of the current guild system allow ZOS to remain neutral. A good general guideline is that all player interactions in this game are at your own risk so proceed with caution and a good dose of skepticism.

It is smart of zos not to set themselves up for legal muddy waters, figuratively. How do guild lodgings open zos to this though?

Newpoint wrote: »

What a pompous reply.

Arguing from evidence as opposed to emotion isn't pompous. Blunt, perhaps. But this isn't the first time I've said that there's no such thing as guild housing in ESO.

I will be equally as blunt.

I expect to take personal accountability for the actions I've taken, understand how and why they happened, learn from them, and not repeat them with the assumption that next time will be different.

The lesson was guild halls could potentially solve this mess next time.