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Feedback: Enemy Interactions are too "Clock" Dependent and Consequently Less Immersive

GrumpyDuckling
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Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.

Enemy interaction mechanics (how a player fights against an enemy) in ESO, especially in end game content, highly encourage "rotations" that reward players for precise clock management of timers and cooldowns. This heavy design investment into clock management means that instead of providing players with more interactive ways to display skill against an enemy, such as aiming a precise shot into an enemy weak spot, or dodging the sword swings of a hulking boss, or utilizing clever tactics like environmental traps to our advantage, our "skill" is highly measured by how we manage timers and cooldowns.

Clock management does not feel immersive.

Please. Please. Please. Consider reducing the importance of "rotations," timers, and cooldowns, and instead focus more on interactive combat mechanics that still require skill but feel more like we are fighting the monster instead of our own best time management. Examples of more interactive combat mechanics, some of which already appear in game are:
- aiming
- blocking
- dodging
- shielding
- tough to hit enemy weak spots
- environmental traps
- environmental/tactical advantages (such as high ground)
- physical teamwork (such as throwing an ally onto a boss' back to attack a weak spot)
- team splitting up to achieve ritual objectives that weaken boss
- targeted tactical decisions (such as team focusing on one of boss' legs to cut it off)
- choices/sacrifices (such as a teammate sacrificing themselves to destroy the boss' weapon to make fight easier for the team - if you choose to resurrect the teammate, then the boss gets their weapon back)

There are immersive and more interactive ways (many of which already exist in game) that players can display skill in fighting enemies without the primary skill being a fight against the clock. Thank you.

Edit on 11/23/18:
I want to be clear that I am not asking for nor suggesting a complete overhaul to combat, but rather tweaks that give players an alternative to clock management play.
Edited by GrumpyDuckling on November 23, 2018 5:33PM
  • ak_pvp
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    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.

    Enemy interaction mechanics (how a player fights against an enemy) in ESO, especially in end game content, highly encourage "rotations" that reward players for precise clock management of timers and cooldowns. This heavy design investment into clock management means that instead of providing players with more interactive ways to display skill against an enemy, such as aiming a precise shot into an enemy weak spot, or dodging the sword swings of a hulking boss, or utilizing clever tactics like environmental traps to our advantage, our "skill" is highly measured by how we manage timers and cooldowns.

    Clock management does not feel immersive.

    Please. Please. Please. Consider reducing the importance of "rotations," timers, and cooldowns, and instead focus more on interactive combat mechanics that still require skill but feel more like we are fighting the monster instead of our own best time management. Examples of more interactive combat mechanics, some of which already appear in game are:
    - aiming
    - blocking
    - dodging
    - shielding
    - tough to hit enemy weak spots
    - environmental traps
    - environmental/tactical advantages (such as high ground)
    - physical teamwork (such as throwing an ally onto a boss' back to attack a weak spot)
    - team splitting up to achieve ritual objectives that weaken boss
    - targeted tactical decisions (such as team focusing on one of boss' legs to cut it off)
    - choices/sacrifices (such as a teammate sacrificing themselves to destroy the boss' weapon to make fight easier for the team - if you choose to resurrect the teammate, then the boss gets their weapon back)

    There are immersive and more interactive ways (many of which already exist in game) that players can display skill in fighting enemies without the primary skill being a fight against the clock. Thank you.

    Agree, its why I prefer PvP mainly. Its more dynamic vs Main boss, dots up, spammable, OK phase 1, run to X, kill X, back to main boss, repeat.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Oakmontowls_ESO
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    Your suggestions sound interesting but are mostly impossible with the current engine.
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Bringing this back up because it is still relevant, and added the following clarity to the first post to avoid confusion:

    "I want to be clear that I am not asking for nor suggesting a complete overhaul to combat, but rather tweaks that give players an alternative to clock management play."
    Edited by GrumpyDuckling on November 23, 2018 5:33PM
  • VaranisArano
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    Bringing this back up because it is still relevant.

    And still just as impossible to implement on a game-wide scale without completely redoing the combat system. Which, judging by their recent comments, ZOS isn't interested in doing. Plus, the more teamwork oriented ZOS makes the new end-game content, it gets that much harder for random groups to complete - thus minimizing the market for it.

    If you want "immersive" and non rotation-based combat for overland questing, you can do that on your own without needing ZOS to change how the game works.

    Also, its against forum rules to bump your own thread without actually adding any content to it.
    Edited by VaranisArano on November 23, 2018 5:00PM
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    Bringing this back up because it is still relevant.

    And still just as impossible to implement on a game-wide scale without completely redoing the combat system. Which, judging by their recent comments, ZOS isn't interested in doing. Plus, the more teamwork oriented ZOS makes the new end-game content, it gets that much harder for random groups to complete - thus minimizing the market for it.

    If you want "immersive" and non rotation-based combat for overland questing, you can do that on your own without needing ZOS to change how the game works.

    Also, its against forum rules to bump your own thread without actually adding any content to it.

    I disagree with your statement that the entire combat system would need to be redone. Some of the "more interactive combat mechanics" I mentioned already exist in the game, and could be implemented by tweaking, rather than overhauling.

    Thanks for the heads up about the rule. I'll edit to provide new content.
  • NordSwordnBoard
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    More fights like Drodda and Chudan that have mechanics beyond the typical 1-shot. We need more variance in boss mechanics for sure.

    VMA has a lot of mechanics that could be repeated or changed to be better. They may be out of ideas that are plausible with the current system.

    I was initially shocked to learn that an ice staff vs a fire monster was weaker than a fire staff against a fire monster. I'm over it, but strategic thinking hardly exists in PvE outside of writing the content guides the first few times.

    As mentioned above, this is why PvP (despite not being balanced, lol) is just so much more dynamic and fun for me.

    We need a guy like Shang Tsung as a dungeon boss, who can mimic a plethora of other bosses attacks... but then how do we improve from there?

    edit for grammar
    Edited by NordSwordnBoard on November 23, 2018 7:03PM
    Fear is the Mindkiller
  • idk
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    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.
    .

    What I placed in bold does not make sense. There are no CDs on the use of skills outside of the GCD before we can use the next skill which any game has. The only timers would be on DoTs which is kind of obvious and something not really worthy of complaining about.


    Going on to the comment about reducing the importance of rotations makes me think this is OPs first MMORPG or was not very good in other MMORPGs. Pretty much every game has a rotation and ESO has much less of one. In other games if one does not follow the meta rotation their dps significantly fails. It really is that simple.

    Since you have quit your sub and pretty much do not play the game anymore I hope you find something that offers the less challenge you are looking for per your other thread, and this one.
  • GrumpyDuckling
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    idk wrote: »
    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.
    .

    What I placed in bold does not make sense. There are no CDs on the use of skills outside of the GCD before we can use the next skill which any game has. The only timers would be on DoTs which is kind of obvious and something not really worthy of complaining about.


    Going on to the comment about reducing the importance of rotations makes me think this is OPs first MMORPG or was not very good in other MMORPGs. Pretty much every game has a rotation and ESO has much less of one. In other games if one does not follow the meta rotation their dps significantly fails. It really is that simple.

    Since you have quit your sub and pretty much do not play the game anymore I hope you find something that offers the less challenge you are looking for per your other thread, and this one.

    I think you're misunderstanding what I am talking about. You imply that I am looking for something "less challenging," but what I am looking for has nothing to do with difficulty.

    Rotations get stale, and I simply don't find them to be all that fun or immersive. Do I understand them and use them? Of course, because I had to use rotations in order to complete VMA, and run dungeons and explore trials with friends.

    However, I see ESO having more potential beyond rotations. Do I want to see rotations removed? No. I want to see alternative ways to play that make the game more fun and immersive for people who get bored with rotations. I get that you disagree, but you seem to be attacking my posts with assumptions that I think the game is too challenging.
  • idk
    idk
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    idk wrote: »
    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.
    .

    What I placed in bold does not make sense. There are no CDs on the use of skills outside of the GCD before we can use the next skill which any game has. The only timers would be on DoTs which is kind of obvious and something not really worthy of complaining about.


    Going on to the comment about reducing the importance of rotations makes me think this is OPs first MMORPG or was not very good in other MMORPGs. Pretty much every game has a rotation and ESO has much less of one. In other games if one does not follow the meta rotation their dps significantly fails. It really is that simple.

    Since you have quit your sub and pretty much do not play the game anymore I hope you find something that offers the less challenge you are looking for per your other thread, and this one.

    I think you're misunderstanding what I am talking about. You imply that I am looking for something "less challenging," but what I am looking for has nothing to do with difficulty.

    Rotations get stale, and I simply don't find them to be all that fun or immersive. Do I understand them and use them? Of course, because I had to use rotations in order to complete VMA, and run dungeons and explore trials with friends.

    However, I see ESO having more potential beyond rotations. Do I want to see rotations removed? No. I want to see alternative ways to play that make the game more fun and immersive for people who get bored with rotations. I get that you disagree, but you seem to be attacking my posts with assumptions that I think the game is too challenging.

    Oh, no. I do understand what you are speaking to. I highlighted your focus you repeated in this that I quoted.

    What is funny is you quoted me stating that every decent MMORPG has rotations. They are even more required than in ESO since any decent player would know that most games require you to use certain skills to gain procs that enhance the damage of a final skill. Otherwise your damage is in the toilet.

    Zos got away from that and your are still complaining which I find really interesting. LOL. With Zos it is much less about that and just keeping your DoTs down and use that filler.

    I guess MMORPGs are not for everyone since you are complaining about what is part of every decent MMORPG.

    Again, I hope you find something more to your liking and less taxing.
  • GrumpyDuckling
    GrumpyDuckling
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.
    .

    What I placed in bold does not make sense. There are no CDs on the use of skills outside of the GCD before we can use the next skill which any game has. The only timers would be on DoTs which is kind of obvious and something not really worthy of complaining about.


    Going on to the comment about reducing the importance of rotations makes me think this is OPs first MMORPG or was not very good in other MMORPGs. Pretty much every game has a rotation and ESO has much less of one. In other games if one does not follow the meta rotation their dps significantly fails. It really is that simple.

    Since you have quit your sub and pretty much do not play the game anymore I hope you find something that offers the less challenge you are looking for per your other thread, and this one.

    I think you're misunderstanding what I am talking about. You imply that I am looking for something "less challenging," but what I am looking for has nothing to do with difficulty.

    Rotations get stale, and I simply don't find them to be all that fun or immersive. Do I understand them and use them? Of course, because I had to use rotations in order to complete VMA, and run dungeons and explore trials with friends.

    However, I see ESO having more potential beyond rotations. Do I want to see rotations removed? No. I want to see alternative ways to play that make the game more fun and immersive for people who get bored with rotations. I get that you disagree, but you seem to be attacking my posts with assumptions that I think the game is too challenging.

    Oh, no. I do understand what you are speaking to. I highlighted your focus you repeated in this that I quoted.

    What is funny is you quoted me stating that every decent MMORPG has rotations. They are even more required than in ESO since any decent player would know that most games require you to use certain skills to gain procs that enhance the damage of a final skill. Otherwise your damage is in the toilet.

    Zos got away from that and your are still complaining which I find really interesting. LOL. With Zos it is much less about that and just keeping your DoTs down and use that filler.

    I guess MMORPGs are not for everyone since you are complaining about what is part of every decent MMORPG.

    Again, I hope you find something more to your liking and less taxing.

    You seem staunch in defining ESO as an MMORPG, but the direction of the game and comments made by the game director himself seem to muddy the water:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG

    The article discusses the move in a direction that made the game "more open and [it] essentially feels like a console RPG."

    While I get your desire to strictly define ESO as an MMORPG, it does not appear that the definition comfortably fits . It is articles like this and comments made by the game director that give me hope that the game will continue to feel more immersive (specifically regarding enemy interactions). Hopefully that can happen while also maintaining the rotation-based gameplay that you, and I'm sure many others, seem to enjoy. More options are often nice to have.
  • Rungar
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    i think theres room in eso for more reactionary actions. It wasnt that long ago that they added double resource HA after you successfully block a heavy attack so there is a bit of hope there.
    It's 0.0666 of a second to midnight.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • idk
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.
    .

    What I placed in bold does not make sense. There are no CDs on the use of skills outside of the GCD before we can use the next skill which any game has. The only timers would be on DoTs which is kind of obvious and something not really worthy of complaining about.


    Going on to the comment about reducing the importance of rotations makes me think this is OPs first MMORPG or was not very good in other MMORPGs. Pretty much every game has a rotation and ESO has much less of one. In other games if one does not follow the meta rotation their dps significantly fails. It really is that simple.

    Since you have quit your sub and pretty much do not play the game anymore I hope you find something that offers the less challenge you are looking for per your other thread, and this one.

    I think you're misunderstanding what I am talking about. You imply that I am looking for something "less challenging," but what I am looking for has nothing to do with difficulty.

    Rotations get stale, and I simply don't find them to be all that fun or immersive. Do I understand them and use them? Of course, because I had to use rotations in order to complete VMA, and run dungeons and explore trials with friends.

    However, I see ESO having more potential beyond rotations. Do I want to see rotations removed? No. I want to see alternative ways to play that make the game more fun and immersive for people who get bored with rotations. I get that you disagree, but you seem to be attacking my posts with assumptions that I think the game is too challenging.

    Oh, no. I do understand what you are speaking to. I highlighted your focus you repeated in this that I quoted.

    What is funny is you quoted me stating that every decent MMORPG has rotations. They are even more required than in ESO since any decent player would know that most games require you to use certain skills to gain procs that enhance the damage of a final skill. Otherwise your damage is in the toilet.

    Zos got away from that and your are still complaining which I find really interesting. LOL. With Zos it is much less about that and just keeping your DoTs down and use that filler.

    I guess MMORPGs are not for everyone since you are complaining about what is part of every decent MMORPG.

    Again, I hope you find something more to your liking and less taxing.

    You seem staunch in defining ESO as an MMORPG, but the direction of the game and comments made by the game director himself seem to muddy the water:
    https://www.pcgamesn.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited/the-elder-scrolls-online-MMORPG

    The article discusses the move in a direction that made the game "more open and [it] essentially feels like a console RPG."

    While I get your desire to strictly define ESO as an MMORPG, it does not appear that the definition comfortably fits . It is articles like this and comments made by the game director that give me hope that the game will continue to feel more immersive (specifically regarding enemy interactions). Hopefully that can happen while also maintaining the rotation-based gameplay that you, and I'm sure many others, seem to enjoy. More options are often nice to have.

    LMAO., If you grasped what that article was saying you would not have linked it. If you grasped what an MMORPG was then you would not have made this reply.

    Both of your threads today merely imply your lack of experience with MMORPGs and that this is not the type of game for you. No game should try to appeal to everyone, as it is absurd to think it could.

    Your complaints today amount to you do not like to deal with change and minimal effort to prepare for something. That probably says much.
  • fred4
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.

    Enemy interaction mechanics (how a player fights against an enemy) in ESO, especially in end game content, highly encourage "rotations" that reward players for precise clock management of timers and cooldowns. This heavy design investment into clock management means that instead of providing players with more interactive ways to display skill against an enemy, such as aiming a precise shot into an enemy weak spot, or dodging the sword swings of a hulking boss, or utilizing clever tactics like environmental traps to our advantage, our "skill" is highly measured by how we manage timers and cooldowns.

    Clock management does not feel immersive.

    Please. Please. Please. Consider reducing the importance of "rotations," timers, and cooldowns, and instead focus more on interactive combat mechanics that still require skill but feel more like we are fighting the monster instead of our own best time management. Examples of more interactive combat mechanics, some of which already appear in game are:
    - aiming
    - blocking
    - dodging
    - shielding
    - tough to hit enemy weak spots
    - environmental traps
    - environmental/tactical advantages (such as high ground)
    - physical teamwork (such as throwing an ally onto a boss' back to attack a weak spot)
    - team splitting up to achieve ritual objectives that weaken boss
    - targeted tactical decisions (such as team focusing on one of boss' legs to cut it off)
    - choices/sacrifices (such as a teammate sacrificing themselves to destroy the boss' weapon to make fight easier for the team - if you choose to resurrect the teammate, then the boss gets their weapon back)

    There are immersive and more interactive ways (many of which already exist in game) that players can display skill in fighting enemies without the primary skill being a fight against the clock. Thank you.

    Agree, its why I prefer PvP mainly. Its more dynamic vs Main boss, dots up, spammable, OK phase 1, run to X, kill X, back to main boss, repeat.
    Oh boy. I agree with the OP and this response is exactly what I would say. I PvP, because I don't like rotations either. They are not absent from PvP, but they are less important. That said, I feel that the class design of magsorc and warden also makes you look inwards, and focus on your rotations, even in PvP.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Rungar
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    the funny thing is that it is the mechanics themselves that make the gameplay boring since they are a learned system and not a reactive system.

    Imagine if a boss could randomly choose to block attacks or throw up a dmg shield or a heal.

    in my opinion the game would be alot more fun if they moved away from set mechanics (especially do this or die type ) and they gave bosses a more dynamic skillset.

    simple random things can get the job done without shaking the game too much.

    random blocking and shielding available to all bosses.
    random boss focus (focus on one person till they are killed).
    multiple mechanics that might or might not happen with the same boss.
    multiple adds types that might or might not happen.
    random events in the dungeon you might find that alter the bosses behavior in some way.

    the whole game is rng except bosses are fully scripted.
    It's 0.0666 of a second to midnight.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • Darkstorne
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    I just started a new sword and board alt using the Lost Legion set from Murkmire:

    5pc bonus: Blocking an attack grants three uses of Empower, increasing the damage of your light attacks by 40%.

    It's made a big difference to how I play, since I now watch for enemy attacks to block rather than worrying about rotations. Not sure how viable this would be at end game, for a fun alt build it makes the game feel fresh :smile:

    I always loved timed blocking mods in Skyrim (where to be effective you have to block just before an enemy attack lands, not stand there with your shield raised for ages) and this accomplishes a similar feeling of being more engaged in watching for enemy attack animations. Just makes me wish animations were better, because now that I'm this focused on them it really reminds you how stiff and basic ESO's animations are :lol:
  • MerleApAmber
    MerleApAmber
    Soul Shriven
    Great conceptual by the OP. I'm of the mind we'll get more flexibility in gameplay as the artificial INTELLIGENCE we are only making inroads on starts trickling "down" into the design matrix of MMOG's. At that point, procedurals, like we have, to accomplish complex damage/effect multipliers will continue to fall into the realm of unconscious competencies that create a background layer of context to challenge to approach gates. As @Darkstorne points out, (pph) the reactionary practices of PVP applied in PVE refresh the interest in new challenge vice 'performing line dances with a group of your best friends.'

    Nice to see someone dreaming the dream and feeling what can be with just a bit more creativity applied to the design of hardware, higher levels of economically available ram/processing power, and the complexities of code branching to accommodate enough variation to seem logically random but focused precisely toward countering You, the player as opponent to the goals and reason for being of the virtual creatures/entities/forces/nature you meet along the way.
  • Heimdarm
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    I hate rotations as well in this game. My first mmorpg that owned my life for a long time was neverwinter and there you dont need to use that much skills and difficult rotations like here, except one class.

    For me in this game, playing a pve dps is like playing on a piano, and I am very bad at it. No just rotation, but weaving, animation cancelling bar swap..

    This will never change tho, because there is a second bar, long rotations will stay here forever I think, at least if we talk about endgame pve dps for vet HM stuff.

    I like to use only 3 main skills on my dps characters +1 healing skill + 1 ultimate and thats all. So I can use Q-E-R keys for my main abilities. Usually its a gap closer, main attacking skill and executioner.

    If you like to use only a few skills you still have options to have cross pvp-pve character that can do vet HM dungeons. You can be a magicka damage dealer with shield and sword, so on 1st bar you have pvp setup what can be used in open world pve, on the second bar you have a tank setup and can tank vet hm. You won't be the best, but it can do the job.

    At the moment I use a ranged magicka character that use only 1 single damage skill for pvp, but still it has good burst, sustain and i am far from being a glass cannon. On my second bar I am a healer and can succesfully heal vet dungeons with the same dps gear. I can also solo world bosses with it.

    So, I understand what you wish for the game, but it will not happen. Long rotations will stay, but as there is a great diversity in armor sets and skills, you can more or less easily find a simple, but still strong and enjoyable solution for yourself that can be universally good for almost everything, maybe except no death runs or veteran trials.
  • Typical_T_ReX
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    I want to be clear nothing in this post fits ESO please keep it out of the game I enjoy playing.
  • Rungar
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    Heimdarm wrote: »
    I hate rotations as well in this game. My first mmorpg that owned my life for a long time was neverwinter and there you dont need to use that much skills and difficult rotations like here, except one class.

    For me in this game, playing a pve dps is like playing on a piano, and I am very bad at it. No just rotation, but weaving, animation cancelling bar swap..

    This will never change tho, because there is a second bar, long rotations will stay here forever I think, at least if we talk about endgame pve dps for vet HM stuff.

    I like to use only 3 main skills on my dps characters +1 healing skill + 1 ultimate and thats all. So I can use Q-E-R keys for my main abilities. Usually its a gap closer, main attacking skill and executioner.

    If you like to use only a few skills you still have options to have cross pvp-pve character that can do vet HM dungeons. You can be a magicka damage dealer with shield and sword, so on 1st bar you have pvp setup what can be used in open world pve, on the second bar you have a tank setup and can tank vet hm. You won't be the best, but it can do the job.

    At the moment I use a ranged magicka character that use only 1 single damage skill for pvp, but still it has good burst, sustain and i am far from being a glass cannon. On my second bar I am a healer and can succesfully heal vet dungeons with the same dps gear. I can also solo world bosses with it.

    So, I understand what you wish for the game, but it will not happen. Long rotations will stay, but as there is a great diversity in armor sets and skills, you can more or less easily find a simple, but still strong and enjoyable solution for yourself that can be universally good for almost everything, maybe except no death runs or veteran trials.

    rotations and weaving sell razr synapses. macro recording mice keyboards and controllers are so common its impossible not to believe they are in common use. This is why everyone rails against reactive combat.
    It's 0.0666 of a second to midnight.

    Rungar's Mystical Emporium
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Rungar wrote: »
    Heimdarm wrote: »
    I hate rotations as well in this game. My first mmorpg that owned my life for a long time was neverwinter and there you dont need to use that much skills and difficult rotations like here, except one class.

    For me in this game, playing a pve dps is like playing on a piano, and I am very bad at it. No just rotation, but weaving, animation cancelling bar swap..

    This will never change tho, because there is a second bar, long rotations will stay here forever I think, at least if we talk about endgame pve dps for vet HM stuff.

    I like to use only 3 main skills on my dps characters +1 healing skill + 1 ultimate and thats all. So I can use Q-E-R keys for my main abilities. Usually its a gap closer, main attacking skill and executioner.

    If you like to use only a few skills you still have options to have cross pvp-pve character that can do vet HM dungeons. You can be a magicka damage dealer with shield and sword, so on 1st bar you have pvp setup what can be used in open world pve, on the second bar you have a tank setup and can tank vet hm. You won't be the best, but it can do the job.

    At the moment I use a ranged magicka character that use only 1 single damage skill for pvp, but still it has good burst, sustain and i am far from being a glass cannon. On my second bar I am a healer and can succesfully heal vet dungeons with the same dps gear. I can also solo world bosses with it.

    So, I understand what you wish for the game, but it will not happen. Long rotations will stay, but as there is a great diversity in armor sets and skills, you can more or less easily find a simple, but still strong and enjoyable solution for yourself that can be universally good for almost everything, maybe except no death runs or veteran trials.

    rotations and weaving sell razr synapses. macro recording mice keyboards and controllers are so common its impossible not to believe they are in common use. This is why everyone rails against reactive combat.

    Yes...we're all shills for gaming companies selling mice, keyboards and controllers. You caught me red-handed.

    (I dont own any of those, thanks very much.)
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    Fighting an enemy in ESO too often misses the mark of making me feel like I am fighting against a cool monster in a fantasy world. Instead, I feel like I am fighting against a clock (the timers and cooldowns of my own skills), with my success against the clock often determining my success against the cool monster who merely appears as a backdrop in my fight against time.

    Enemy interaction mechanics (how a player fights against an enemy) in ESO, especially in end game content, highly encourage "rotations" that reward players for precise clock management of timers and cooldowns. This heavy design investment into clock management means that instead of providing players with more interactive ways to display skill against an enemy, such as aiming a precise shot into an enemy weak spot, or dodging the sword swings of a hulking boss, or utilizing clever tactics like environmental traps to our advantage, our "skill" is highly measured by how we manage timers and cooldowns.

    Clock management does not feel immersive.

    Please. Please. Please. Consider reducing the importance of "rotations," timers, and cooldowns, and instead focus more on interactive combat mechanics that still require skill but feel more like we are fighting the monster instead of our own best time management. Examples of more interactive combat mechanics, some of which already appear in game are:
    - aiming
    - blocking
    - dodging
    - shielding
    - tough to hit enemy weak spots
    - environmental traps
    - environmental/tactical advantages (such as high ground)
    - physical teamwork (such as throwing an ally onto a boss' back to attack a weak spot)
    - team splitting up to achieve ritual objectives that weaken boss
    - targeted tactical decisions (such as team focusing on one of boss' legs to cut it off)
    - choices/sacrifices (such as a teammate sacrificing themselves to destroy the boss' weapon to make fight easier for the team - if you choose to resurrect the teammate, then the boss gets their weapon back)

    There are immersive and more interactive ways (many of which already exist in game) that players can display skill in fighting enemies without the primary skill being a fight against the clock. Thank you.

    Edit on 11/23/18:
    I want to be clear that I am not asking for nor suggesting a complete overhaul to combat, but rather tweaks that give players an alternative to clock management play.

    True ... Which is why the real end game is PvP in cyrodil
  • idk
    idk
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    I want to be clear nothing in this post fits ESO please keep it out of the game I enjoy playing.

    LOL. Yes, starting with the title it seems OP was talking about a different game.
  • RavenSworn
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    I'm split right in the middle about this.

    On one hand, rotations and 'clock' (it should be called timing but I'll bite) dependance are part and parcel of an mmo. It always has been since.. Ever. Managing your rotations and weaving while making sure you aren't in red or ensuring you hit the boss is normal.

    However, I would love for the mechanics of the bosses or dungeon mobs to be more varied. I'd love if there are mechanics that require the tank to be a tank-ish *** and the healer to focus more on healing, not these one shots that even the tank can't block.

    The issue here is that there isn't much of a risk vs rewards in terms of player builds. Even with the shield nerf, magicka players still have access to good self healing as healing power = spell power = spell damage. It is possible, as a nightblade to dish out good dps as well as good healing. Even stamina based players are able to withstand incoming damage with enough stamina for dodge, block and vigor.

    Reactive combat is fantastic, no doubt about it. But it needs to have a proper implementation, rather than just slapping it on the current combat system and call it a day. Even in real life combat training, you are taught first, how to aim, how to fire, how to dismantle your weapon, how to move with your weapon, with and without sights until it comes to a point when it becomes muscle memory.
    Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.


    Of Wolf and Raven
    Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!
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