Make it as convenient to pvp as in other games

Gargis
Gargis
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Title says it all.

I can que up in other games and pvp immediately. May not have the best gear, but that not the issue.

Allow transmutation of any gear to Impenetrable w/o the ridiculous cost. Or ZOS, would you prefer I take advantage of other vendors good will?
  • RighteousBacon
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    I’m not seeing the problem here. Trasmutation is cheap honestly if you pvp enough. I have more yellow trasmute geodes than I can count...just gotta get a good build, play it for a while, then use ur transmute crystals to make other builds
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    It sounds like you'd be happier playing a different game. Godspeed.
    Armitas wrote: »
    This game is so broken I don't even know how people distinguish CE from negligent development.
  • VaranisArano
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    Most gear sets are cheap to buy in the impenetrable trait because impen is really only used in PVP. When I bring my alts to PVP, I outfit them in cheap impen sets, usually for less than 10k. Crafted sets would be more expensive, but easy enough to farm the mats and ask a crafter to make you the set.

    If you want to use dungeon BOP gear, I'm afraid that ZOS likes for PVPers to have to play PVE in order to get the gear they want. So join the grind with the rest of us.

    Getting decent impen PVP gear in ESO is not difficult or expensive if you buy it or only takes a time investment if you want to transmute. If getting the gear is such a hurdle for you, I'm afraid that the learning curve once you actually get to PVP is going to be even more brutal.
  • Beardimus
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    Impen gear isn't dear to buy.
    Crafting it is cheap
    Who isn't drowning in Transmutation crystals?
    Sorry @Gargis but what part is expensive?
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (780CP) Dunmer Dual Wield MagSorc [Conquering Hero]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 / 16-02-18
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Lunar Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | TradersOfNirn2
    Trials : Saviors

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus - L32 Dunmer Magsorc
    Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc Healer
  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
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    ESO does make it the most difficult out of all MMOs I play to set up a useable pvp build. It's not LEAGUES more difficult, but I do think some toning down would be worth looking into.

    In ESO you need to craft all your gear, farm stuff, hope you get the things you want in the right trait, etc. This is compounded by the Impen trait's monopoly on pvp traits - you must have impen, end of story, unless you want to run some sort of meme build that dies instantly.

    However, I do think that most of the issues will be resolved as soon as jewelcrafting stops being heckin' expensive to make even the smallest thing...but that's still a ways off.

    @VaranisArano In my experience, buying impen armor is actually MORE expensive than other traits. At least, the ones people actually want are - I don't think I've ever seen 7th legion for what I'd consider cheap. I actually make a point to buy pvp sets in other traits and then convert to impen because the impen pieces are expensive.

    Finally, players are drowning in transmutation crystals if they've been playing for a while, but not everyone has been doing the 'playing for a while' thing. And really, going into pvp without all the bits and bobs in the right places is painfully brutal.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    ESO does make it the most difficult out of all MMOs I play to set up a useable pvp build. It's not LEAGUES more difficult, but I do think some toning down would be worth looking into.

    In ESO you need to craft all your gear, farm stuff, hope you get the things you want in the right trait, etc. This is compounded by the Impen trait's monopoly on pvp traits - you must have impen, end of story, unless you want to run some sort of meme build that dies instantly.

    However, I do think that most of the issues will be resolved as soon as jewelcrafting stops being heckin' expensive to make even the smallest thing...but that's still a ways off.

    @VaranisArano In my experience, buying impen armor is actually MORE expensive than other traits. At least, the ones people actually want are - I don't think I've ever seen 7th legion for what I'd consider cheap. I actually make a point to buy pvp sets in other traits and then convert to impen because the impen pieces are expensive.

    Finally, players are drowning in transmutation crystals if they've been playing for a while, but not everyone has been doing the 'playing for a while' thing. And really, going into pvp without all the bits and bobs in the right places is painfully brutal.

    Impen is considerably cheaper than Divines. True, its more expensive than the useless traits like invigorating or reinforced, but honestly, its not hard to make gold in this game with a little bit of effort or farming.

    Yeah, ESO requires a certain investment before you jump headfirst into PVP if you want to do well. Part of that is that ESO isn't interested in being just a PVP game or just a PVE game. There are multiple ways that the game encourages players to experience ALL parts of the game in both PVE and PVP. ESO also has become more grindy, not less.

    Also, jumping headfirst into ESO's PVP is a pretty brutal learning curve - gear helps, but even with the right gear its still brutal. I'm not convinced that giving players cheaper gear would help (especially when in my experience the gear is already cheap and pretty easy to acquire with a little effort.)

    ESO isn't the sort of game where you can jump straight into anything with decent gear. You'll need the crafting mats, or to farm it, or the gold, or the transmute stones, or the dungeon experience to get any sort of decent gear. You seem to want the game to hand you PVP gear and I'm don't think ESO is that sort of game.
  • jaime1982
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    Good luck
  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    ESO does make it the most difficult out of all MMOs I play to set up a useable pvp build. It's not LEAGUES more difficult, but I do think some toning down would be worth looking into.

    In ESO you need to craft all your gear, farm stuff, hope you get the things you want in the right trait, etc. This is compounded by the Impen trait's monopoly on pvp traits - you must have impen, end of story, unless you want to run some sort of meme build that dies instantly.

    However, I do think that most of the issues will be resolved as soon as jewelcrafting stops being heckin' expensive to make even the smallest thing...but that's still a ways off.

    @VaranisArano In my experience, buying impen armor is actually MORE expensive than other traits. At least, the ones people actually want are - I don't think I've ever seen 7th legion for what I'd consider cheap. I actually make a point to buy pvp sets in other traits and then convert to impen because the impen pieces are expensive.

    Finally, players are drowning in transmutation crystals if they've been playing for a while, but not everyone has been doing the 'playing for a while' thing. And really, going into pvp without all the bits and bobs in the right places is painfully brutal.

    Impen is considerably cheaper than Divines. True, its more expensive than the useless traits like invigorating or reinforced, but honestly, its not hard to make gold in this game with a little bit of effort or farming.

    Yeah, ESO requires a certain investment before you jump headfirst into PVP if you want to do well. Part of that is that ESO isn't interested in being just a PVP game or just a PVE game. There are multiple ways that the game encourages players to experience ALL parts of the game in both PVE and PVP. ESO also has become more grindy, not less.

    Also, jumping headfirst into ESO's PVP is a pretty brutal learning curve - gear helps, but even with the right gear its still brutal. I'm not convinced that giving players cheaper gear would help (especially when in my experience the gear is already cheap and pretty easy to acquire with a little effort.)

    ESO isn't the sort of game where you can jump straight into anything with decent gear. You'll need the crafting mats, or to farm it, or the gold, or the transmute stones, or the dungeon experience to get any sort of decent gear. You seem to want the game to hand you PVP gear and I'm don't think ESO is that sort of game.

    It's more a barrier to entry thing. Of course it's not going to help new players not get destroyed in their first couple of BGs, but that's not the point.

    Take a look at Cyrodiil. If you want to play in Cyro and not experience horse simulator 2k18 (among other things) you need a set of all impen gear, jewelry to go with it, a weapon, and a pretty well trained mount (in group play too, else you'll be quickly left behind and end up dead).

    I don't expect to be able to jump right in like GW2 lets you - but I do think the game could benefit from letting players start pvping and getting destroyed for not-skill-related reasons a bit quicker. Horse training, making impen less of an end all be all in pvp (maybe base impen in battle spirit or w/e), and maybe mess with transmutation crystal income in areas other than pvp (I know they've adjusted it some and did a good job, but just a liiiiitle bit more...). And so on and so forth. QoL stuff.

    Also, you seem (I assume) to be more of a veteran player, correct me if I'm wrong. I think a lot of people forget how much of a slog some things can be - I have massive amounts of resources sitting around, but my friend who recently joined the game has had a heck of a time setting up a pvp character.

    Also, I don't know what platform you play on (PC NA here) but I have never seen divines go for more than impen on a pvp set. Gonna have to call a bit of BS with your first statement, unless things are much different on other platforms. I did some rather thorough digging a while back when putting together several builds - divines tended to cost a little more than the trash traits, but much less than impen and sometimes the same as sturdy or one of hte other 'not impen but not trash either' (like well fitted on some setups). And the impen version was always MUCH more expensive ( 2x+ the price). Idk but if you're also on PC-NA, tell me where you find your stuff xD
    Edited by Tonturri on July 30, 2018 5:33AM
  • Beardimus
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    ESO does make it the most difficult out of all MMOs I play to set up a useable pvp build. It's not LEAGUES more difficult, but I do think some toning down would be worth looking into.

    In ESO you need to craft all your gear, farm stuff, hope you get the things you want in the right trait, etc. This is compounded by the Impen trait's monopoly on pvp traits - you must have impen, end of story, unless you want to run some sort of meme build that dies instantly.

    However, I do think that most of the issues will be resolved as soon as jewelcrafting stops being heckin' expensive to make even the smallest thing...but that's still a ways off.

    @VaranisArano In my experience, buying impen armor is actually MORE expensive than other traits. At least, the ones people actually want are - I don't think I've ever seen 7th legion for what I'd consider cheap. I actually make a point to buy pvp sets in other traits and then convert to impen because the impen pieces are expensive.

    Finally, players are drowning in transmutation crystals if they've been playing for a while, but not everyone has been doing the 'playing for a while' thing. And really, going into pvp without all the bits and bobs in the right places is painfully brutal.

    If you play for max 30 days you can drown in crystals.

    Take every toon You have to PvP. Zerg surf or Restro heal or repair walls lol. Get to 25k AP rinse and repeat.

    Every toon that's Tier 1 AP at end of 30 day campaign gets 50 Crystals. Plus all the extras from rewards of the worthy.

    So at worst that's 410-20 Crystals in 30 days (less if campaign is already started)

    Also you don't need Meta gear for PvP. You need to L2P. A crafted Impen set is fine with MH, trinity jewelry and weapons (or 2nd set now) you don't even need impen if you run a ward. Or fire all your Cp into crit resist and a groupie wears Transmutation set (cheap) or you run Impregnable (free from battlegrounds)

    Honestly the cost of going PvPing is a non event.

    If ur Xbox EU ill craft you impen gear
    Edited by Beardimus on July 30, 2018 7:34AM
    Xbox One | EU | EP
    Beardimus - VR16 (780CP) Dunmer Dual Wield MagSorc [Conquering Hero]
    Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-02-18 / 16-02-18
    Alts - - for the Lolz
    Archimus - Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
    Orcimus - Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
    Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master

    Fighting for : The SAXON Guild
    Fighting with [PvP] : The Lunar Wolves
    Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | TradersOfNirn2
    Trials : Saviors

    Xbox One | NA | EP
    Bëardimus - L32 Dunmer Magsorc
    Heals-With-Pets - CP160+ Argonian Sorc Healer
  • SugaComa
    SugaComa
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    Gargis wrote: »
    Title says it all.

    I can que up in other games and pvp immediately. May not have the best gear, but that not the issue.

    Allow transmutation of any gear to Impenetrable w/o the ridiculous cost. Or ZOS, would you prefer I take advantage of other vendors good will?

    The one change that needs to happen in cyrodil is very simple ....


    Mounts stam and speed should scale to max in cyrodil
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Tonturri wrote: »
    Tonturri wrote: »
    ESO does make it the most difficult out of all MMOs I play to set up a useable pvp build. It's not LEAGUES more difficult, but I do think some toning down would be worth looking into.

    In ESO you need to craft all your gear, farm stuff, hope you get the things you want in the right trait, etc. This is compounded by the Impen trait's monopoly on pvp traits - you must have impen, end of story, unless you want to run some sort of meme build that dies instantly.

    However, I do think that most of the issues will be resolved as soon as jewelcrafting stops being heckin' expensive to make even the smallest thing...but that's still a ways off.

    @VaranisArano In my experience, buying impen armor is actually MORE expensive than other traits. At least, the ones people actually want are - I don't think I've ever seen 7th legion for what I'd consider cheap. I actually make a point to buy pvp sets in other traits and then convert to impen because the impen pieces are expensive.

    Finally, players are drowning in transmutation crystals if they've been playing for a while, but not everyone has been doing the 'playing for a while' thing. And really, going into pvp without all the bits and bobs in the right places is painfully brutal.

    Impen is considerably cheaper than Divines. True, its more expensive than the useless traits like invigorating or reinforced, but honestly, its not hard to make gold in this game with a little bit of effort or farming.

    Yeah, ESO requires a certain investment before you jump headfirst into PVP if you want to do well. Part of that is that ESO isn't interested in being just a PVP game or just a PVE game. There are multiple ways that the game encourages players to experience ALL parts of the game in both PVE and PVP. ESO also has become more grindy, not less.

    Also, jumping headfirst into ESO's PVP is a pretty brutal learning curve - gear helps, but even with the right gear its still brutal. I'm not convinced that giving players cheaper gear would help (especially when in my experience the gear is already cheap and pretty easy to acquire with a little effort.)

    ESO isn't the sort of game where you can jump straight into anything with decent gear. You'll need the crafting mats, or to farm it, or the gold, or the transmute stones, or the dungeon experience to get any sort of decent gear. You seem to want the game to hand you PVP gear and I'm don't think ESO is that sort of game.

    It's more a barrier to entry thing. Of course it's not going to help new players not get destroyed in their first couple of BGs, but that's not the point.

    Take a look at Cyrodiil. If you want to play in Cyro and not experience horse simulator 2k18 (among other things) you need a set of all impen gear, jewelry to go with it, a weapon, and a pretty well trained mount (in group play too, else you'll be quickly left behind and end up dead).

    I don't expect to be able to jump right in like GW2 lets you - but I do think the game could benefit from letting players start pvping and getting destroyed for not-skill-related reasons a bit quicker. Horse training, making impen less of an end all be all in pvp (maybe base impen in battle spirit or w/e), and maybe mess with transmutation crystal income in areas other than pvp (I know they've adjusted it some and did a good job, but just a liiiiitle bit more...). And so on and so forth. QoL stuff.

    Also, you seem (I assume) to be more of a veteran player, correct me if I'm wrong. I think a lot of people forget how much of a slog some things can be - I have massive amounts of resources sitting around, but my friend who recently joined the game has had a heck of a time setting up a pvp character.

    Also, I don't know what platform you play on (PC NA here) but I have never seen divines go for more than impen on a pvp set. Gonna have to call a bit of BS with your first statement, unless things are much different on other platforms. I did some rather thorough digging a while back when putting together several builds - divines tended to cost a little more than the trash traits, but much less than impen and sometimes the same as sturdy or one of hte other 'not impen but not trash either' (like well fitted on some setups). And the impen version was always MUCH more expensive ( 2x+ the price). Idk but if you're also on PC-NA, tell me where you find your stuff xD

    I'm PC/NA as well, and yes, I'm a veteran player. My comments about impen costing less than divine were for sets in general, though again, I've rarely had to spend much gold to get sets in impen. For example, my spriggans set I got for an alt was much more expensive in Divines than in impen. Other sets may vary, particularly the battleground sets. Personally I've found that outfitting my PVE toons in Divines was always more expensive than buying impen for my PVP toons.

    My overall point is a bit larger, having to do with why your suggestion, though it has some merits, is at odds with the current nature of the game. While you are correct that there's a barrier to entry to PVP, theres also a barrier to entry for every other form of group content in the game. Want to do decently in group dungeons? You'll have to farm the crafting mats, farm a somewhat matched set of gear, or buy it. Same for trials, battlegrounds, and Cyrodiil. ESO is deliberately built to have those grinding barriers to entry to keep players playing, and we've only seen those barriers increase with time (jewelrycraftying). Yeah, those barriers to entry benefit more experienced players who can circumvent them with accumulated gold that we ground for, but that's rather the point. ESO does not hand anyone anything.

    Now, that seems like a problem! Barriers of entry are bad for players, right? Sure, but the barriers of entry weren't designed for player benefit. Instead, they were designed by ZOS to keep you playing more of the game.ZOS doesn't want you to jump right into PVP (or anything else, for that matter), git gud, and leave once you get bored. So they construct these barriers to entry to make you play the game more before you get what you want. Then, they switch up the meta every update or so, so you have adjust your builds and grind to get the BIS stuff again. All of this is designed to keep you playing the game. All of it is designed to NOT give you immediate gratification.

    But its possible to get some immediate gratification through gold or crowns. Don't like that your mount is too slow in Cyrodiil and don't want to wait 60 days? Crown Store Riding Lessons (aka why you can expect that ZOS will never change the Cyrodiil Horse Riding Simulator 3000 for new PVPers). Or you can farm stuff and accumulate gold to just buy what you want. Now, if you have gold or crowns, you can effectively trade one for the other. Nor, in my opinion, is it terribly difficult to accumulate gold, even for a new player with an interest in accumulating gold - at least to the point of buying CP 160 PVP sets, food and potions. It will take some time and effort to farm items/mats for the gold, sure, but its not difficult. Again, no immediate gratification, but not an insurmountable barrier to entry.

    So ultimately, ESO has gone in a direction where players have to grind for what they want, where jumping right into content is difficult unless you already have the gold or the resources or the crowns to do so. That's deliberate, because ZOS would rather that you and especially new players somewhat unhappily continue playing and grinding away at ESO than that players happily jump right into the content they want and then, satisfied, leave.

    TLDR: ESO uses those barriers to entry to force players to keep playing their game, rather than jumping right into the content, enjoying it for a while, and then leaving. So you've got good ideas for how to lower the barriers of entry, but frankly, I don't think those barriers aren't coming down unless there are some serious changes in design philosophy at ZOS.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    SugaComa wrote: »
    Gargis wrote: »
    Title says it all.

    I can que up in other games and pvp immediately. May not have the best gear, but that not the issue.

    Allow transmutation of any gear to Impenetrable w/o the ridiculous cost. Or ZOS, would you prefer I take advantage of other vendors good will?

    The one change that needs to happen in cyrodil is very simple ....


    Mounts stam and speed should scale to max in cyrodil

    Why that will never happen: Crown Store Riding Lessons.
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