MagBlade - BiS for Max DPS - Based on Rakat nuke under 3 Mins

Cybercore_Death

By now most of us have seen the nuke videos where a group of MagBlades absolutely destroy Rakat beyond recognition in under 3 minutes.

I'm aware there will be a lot of group buffs involved to reach the numbers they did but if you strip away the group buffs there will still be some insane numbers solo.

My question is this, to get the absolute maximum out of a MagBlade what is the perfect build setup? Gear, Skills, Rotation, CP etc.

I've read and watched a few videos where different people claim they have the "BiS" build for different reasons but there's never a concise gear or rotation setup between them, hence me asking the community.

I do appreciate that i may get mixed answers on this thread but from the response i get i can look for the commonalities and put together a build from there.

I am new to MagBlades (been a MagDK faithful through the good and bad) but i'm keen to learn and understand.

Thanks in advance to anyone who replies ^-^

Chibs

Sororia and BSW is what most people are using

XiDiabolismiX

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Masel

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

Gallagher563

They probably also use master architect for major slayer on at least 2 magblades.

SammyFable

The 3rd platform nuke wasn't done with all MAGblade, but primarily STAMblades (6 stam + 3 mag). They also ditched one tank/ used a heal as offtank and a sorc heal for stuff a magsorc dd would provide.

Well your question concerning the BiS setup has already been answered, so I won't repeat others.

TheNightflame

@Masel92 Is that tested difference or just tooltip? I'm wondering how constant criticism bones vs constant spell damage bonus will affect things.

Masel

TheNightflame wrote: »

@Masel92 Is that tested difference or just tooltip? I'm wondering how constant criticism bones vs constant spell damage bonus will affect things.

That is (1-critical Chance)*Non-critical Hit+Critical Chance*Critical Hit on Funnel health hits on a dummy. Basically weighted average critical and non-critical hits.

Fairly intuitive: if you have 50% critical chance and funnel health hits for 10k non-critical and 18k critical, then the average damage will be 14k, because 50% of your hits will get you 8k bonus damage, yielding 10k+4k. Dummy tests are often lacklustre, because knowing the core functionality of the game often simplifies testing a lot.

You can use this formula to compare setups in terms of damage:

1. Hit a dummy with a non-critical hit and note the damage.
2. Hit a dummy with a critical hit and note the damage
3. Use the above formula with your critical chance to obtain the average damage you get.
4. Repeat this with multiple set combinations to find the best solution.

Much easier than standing in front of a dummy for days. Note that this only works reliably with the same amount of penetration and damage done values between setups that you want to compare.

Marabornwingrion

Cybercore_Death wrote: »

By now most of us have seen the nuke videos where a group of MagBlades absolutely destroy Rakat beyond recognition in under 3 minutes.

Well, not me apparently

Runefang

Masel92 wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

They're running Thief + Mother's Sorrow though. This scales better in trials with Major Force available and a high crit chance put on top of Siroria's massive spell damage boost is better than Apprentice.

Not to mention that all magicka toons now (should) run minor force in some form which makes extra crit chance more valuable as well.

Masel

Runefang wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

They're running Thief + Mother's Sorrow though. This scales better in trials with Major Force available and a high crit chance put on top of Siroria's massive spell damage boost is better than Apprentice.

Not to mention that all magicka toons now (should) run minor force in some form which makes extra crit chance more valuable as well.

Siroria with sorrow+thief yields me 14117 weighted average damage, while sorrow+apprentice yields 14003. Thief and julianos is 14027. That is with full siroria, major force, minor force and 20% elfborn. They are all within 1%... Still not worth paying 500k. This whole debate is so exaggerated

hedna123b14_ESO

Runefang wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

They're running Thief + Mother's Sorrow though. This scales better in trials with Major Force available and a high crit chance put on top of Siroria's massive spell damage boost is better than Apprentice.

Not to mention that all magicka toons now (should) run minor force in some form which makes extra crit chance more valuable as well.

You are 100% right. No one in endgame uses juli/apprentice, thief and sorrow smash all the dps records...our magblades wouldn't be hitting 60k+ st if they wore apprentice/juli...I love when people do all these detailed math work ups and yet when good players test this stuff in trials there is a clear difference...

John_Falstaff

I love it when engineers and mathematicians make their diagrams and models, trying to prove something, but true audiophiles, connoisseurs of sound, are able to hear the clear difference provided by those $10K finger-thick oxygen-free copper cables... ^^

Masel

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

They're running Thief + Mother's Sorrow though. This scales better in trials with Major Force available and a high crit chance put on top of Siroria's massive spell damage boost is better than Apprentice.

Not to mention that all magicka toons now (should) run minor force in some form which makes extra crit chance more valuable as well.

You are 100% right. No one in endgame uses juli/apprentice, thief and sorrow smash all the dps records...our magblades wouldn't be hitting 60k+ st if they wore apprentice/juli...I love when people do all these detailed math work ups and yet when good players test this stuff in trials there is a clear difference...

Oh so you think I am not a good player? Thanks for the well hidden insult over there. And then people wonder why theorycrafting dies off. The endgame community is full of stubborn people.

I think you should be glad that there's players out there who don't blindly follow what streamers tell them. But okay, do whatever you want, wear whatever you wear, I won't bother anymore because it's not worth the effort.

I didn't even question that Ms+thief is the best option, you're just overstating the difference again, just as in the other thread on stam builds.

adeptusminor

Masel92 wrote: »

I didn't even question that Ms+thief is the best option, you're just overstating the difference again, just as in the other thread on stam builds.

Yeah, it's this. MS+thief generally is the best option for the best players, but the difference is pretty small. That being said, there are definitely people playing the game that 500k isn't a lot of money and they want to have the absolute best, even if it's 0.5% better. For those people, yeah sure it's worth it. For everyone else, nah not so much.

hedna123b14_ESO

Masel92 wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

Masel92 wrote: »

XiDiabolismiX wrote: »

Sororia and Mother’s Sorrow. Siroria because it’s op as all hell and MS for the extra crit. Makes for fat bow procs and fat executes.

Sorrow+Apprentice is basically exactly similar to thief and julianos.

Thief gives 10.5% critical and julianos 300 spell damage, and sorrow gives 8.78% critical and apprentice gives 365 spell damage.

So don't pay 500k for sorrow staves if you can craft julianos, use thief and be done with it.

The difference between their average damage from my skills is 0.006%, which is a difference of 24 if you did 40k dps. Not 24k, 24.

They're running Thief + Mother's Sorrow though. This scales better in trials with Major Force available and a high crit chance put on top of Siroria's massive spell damage boost is better than Apprentice.

Not to mention that all magicka toons now (should) run minor force in some form which makes extra crit chance more valuable as well.

You are 100% right. No one in endgame uses juli/apprentice, thief and sorrow smash all the dps records...our magblades wouldn't be hitting 60k+ st if they wore apprentice/juli...I love when people do all these detailed math work ups and yet when good players test this stuff in trials there is a clear difference...

Oh so you think I am not a good player? Thanks for the well hidden insult over there. And then people wonder why theorycrafting dies off. The endgame community is full of stubborn people.

I think you should be glad that there's players out there who don't blindly follow what streamers tell them. But okay, do whatever you want, wear whatever you wear, I won't bother anymore because it's not worth the effort.

I didn't even question that Ms+thief is the best option, you're just overstating the difference again, just as in the other thread on stam builds.

1. I don't know what kind of player you are, you may be amazing, but I have never seen you play. I did look up your name and I could only find 1 score on the leaderboards - a 130k in HoF. I know you play EU, the lowest EU score in vCR is 30k-ish, and you mentioned that you have done plenty of vCR and yet I dont see your name there. So in regards to judging your ability as a player - I am using the only means at my disposal - scores, but you dont have any. I have no other means to make a judgement unfortunately, so I go by that.
2. I think what you do for the general population is very valuable, however I used to do exactly that. I used to math all the time. The PTS period I literally spent hours mathing, just to find out that it doesn't always correlate to the real scenario. Mathing in this game is often way off the mark.
3. The only 2 streamers people in this game whos advice I would consider seriously would be LZH and Liko, and that is because when I test their setups it yields me the highest DPS. That doesn't mean that I dont test my own ideas, it simply means that in the past 9 months+ of ESO, their theorycrafting (which is ALWAYS backed up by a ton of data from other high end players) is dead on.
4. Correct you did say that MS+Thief is best but you suggested that the difference between them is 14117/14027=.6%. That is simply wrong. If you tested it in a high end trial scenario you would see how huge the difference it makes. I have tried this setup, hence why I'm making the statement that I am.

In this game scores are your resume, so if you dont have them its hard to trust anything you say. It would be like getting a physics lesson from someone that doesnt have any degrees. No way to know if the knowledge youre getting is accurate.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Any good engineer knows that real life doesn’t always reflect the math on the drawing board, but that’s still where they start.

My 2 cents. In average hands, the difference between these different setups is so small that it will barely be noticeable, but that said, those pushing score are running sorrow + thief because at the extreme end of things it is yielding noticeable and better results. End of the day, I am going to run what I see those at the top of leaderboards running because there is objective evidence that it works (doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the math).

That said, rotation is the biggest driver for DPS, especially on nightblade. OP asks about mageblade rotation, and the correct answer is that their isn’t one. This is what separates nightblade from other classes. There is no rotation, only skill/buff priorities. The best magebaldes have near 100% up times on half a dozen DOTs and buffs, and they control merciless perfectly, meaning every fifth skill is a spectral bow proc. They also manage 2 different spam skills when everything is ticking. There is no fixed rotation that can accomplish this. If you aren’t doing this, what combo of gear/Mundas you are running just doesn’t matter all that much. No class is more skill dependent than nightblade, full stop.

John_Falstaff

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

...yielding noticeable and better results. End of the day, I am going to run what I see those at the top of leaderboards running because there is objective evidence that it works (doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the math).

Is there an objective evidence that Thief+Julianos doesn't? I mean, a trend isn't always a sound proof that there are no alternatives. Sure, people try things and find combinations that work, but belief that other combinations don't may be just a form of behavioral confirmation. People just stick with empirically discovered choices and leave it at that. So, is there an evidence that results are better, or they just didn't try? I just wonder if there are comparisons around from those people.

I would also say it's a little bit strong wording, regarding lack of rotation. For one, there sure will be a rotation for magblade - it's just optimal rotation will have longer period (because too many skills have different durations, so repetition period of the whole pattern will be longer). For another, people successfully use static rotations on magblade (one is given on Alcast's site for his 'Azure' build, and he, by own admittance, uses it in newer trials, "...because you actually have to focus on other things"). Apparently it's not a decisive DPS loss if they're doing score runs with that. Yes, OP is asking about perfect case, but I assume that he's not asking it just to do dummy parses, and it's a stretch to say that magblade doesn't have static rotation.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

...yielding noticeable and better results. End of the day, I am going to run what I see those at the top of leaderboards running because there is objective evidence that it works (doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the math).

Is there an objective evidence that Thief+Julianos doesn't? I mean, a trend isn't always a sound proof that there are no alternatives. Sure, people try things and find combinations that work, but belief that other combinations don't may be just a form of behavioral confirmation. People just stick with empirically discovered choices and leave it at that. So, is there an evidence that results are better, or they just didn't try? I just wonder if there are comparisons around from those people.

I would also say it's a little bit strong wording, regarding lack of rotation. For one, there sure will be a rotation for magblade - it's just optimal rotation will have longer period (because too many skills have different durations, so repetition period of the whole pattern will be longer). For another, people successfully use static rotations on magblade (one is given on Alcast's site for his 'Azure' build, and he, by own admittance, uses it in newer trials, "...because you actually have to focus on other things"). Apparently it's not a decisive DPS loss if they're doing score runs with that. Yes, OP is asking about perfect case, but I assume that he's not asking it just to do dummy parses, and it's a stretch to say that magblade doesn't have static rotation.

If you are doing a "rotation" on a magblade you will lose a ton of dps, upto 10k most likely. @Oreyn_Bearclaw is absolutely right. As far as Juli and Thief, you CAN wear that, its not horrible, but then again the viable setups in this game are all close together if 2-5k dps seems like its not a big deal....the sets that are meta are not simply meta because someone decided they are. They are meta, because thats what testing yielded...

Runefang

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

...yielding noticeable and better results. End of the day, I am going to run what I see those at the top of leaderboards running because there is objective evidence that it works (doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the math).

Is there an objective evidence that Thief+Julianos doesn't? I mean, a trend isn't always a sound proof that there are no alternatives. Sure, people try things and find combinations that work, but belief that other combinations don't may be just a form of behavioral confirmation. People just stick with empirically discovered choices and leave it at that. So, is there an evidence that results are better, or they just didn't try? I just wonder if there are comparisons around from those people.

I would also say it's a little bit strong wording, regarding lack of rotation. For one, there sure will be a rotation for magblade - it's just optimal rotation will have longer period (because too many skills have different durations, so repetition period of the whole pattern will be longer). For another, people successfully use static rotations on magblade (one is given on Alcast's site for his 'Azure' build, and he, by own admittance, uses it in newer trials, "...because you actually have to focus on other things"). Apparently it's not a decisive DPS loss if they're doing score runs with that. Yes, OP is asking about perfect case, but I assume that he's not asking it just to do dummy parses, and it's a stretch to say that magblade doesn't have static rotation.

Thing is, if you want a static rotation then you're better off with a different class because they can pull off those more easily. Petsorcs for example lose very little dps doing a static 8s rotation.

All classes should run dynamic rotations because no class has all dots which are all the same length and refreshing dots early is a dps loss. You could be using a spammable instead.

Certain people write guides that are to be mass consumed so the best 'rotation' isn't always the one advertised to use.

John_Falstaff

@Runefang , I can understand all of the above. My point was, they are actually using the simpler static rotation on magblade in latest trials, and it's (according to gm of Hodor, since we're appealing to authority in this thread) apparently isn't big enough DPS loss to care about. It does come without saying that optimal rotation for any class neither leaves downtime nor refreshes skills too early, but the optimal isn't always the most practical. I was merely addressing the point that there's no rotation for magblades; well, there apparently is.

@hedna123b14_ESO , the "most likely" tells me that you didn't test? I mean, those are pure beliefs. On occasion, meta is meta precisely because someone decided it is. And I haven't seen actual testing, that's why I asked @Oreyn_Bearclaw about it - I'd be very curious to see the comparison.

hedna123b14_ESO

Runefang wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

...yielding noticeable and better results. End of the day, I am going to run what I see those at the top of leaderboards running because there is objective evidence that it works (doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the math).

Is there an objective evidence that Thief+Julianos doesn't? I mean, a trend isn't always a sound proof that there are no alternatives. Sure, people try things and find combinations that work, but belief that other combinations don't may be just a form of behavioral confirmation. People just stick with empirically discovered choices and leave it at that. So, is there an evidence that results are better, or they just didn't try? I just wonder if there are comparisons around from those people.

I would also say it's a little bit strong wording, regarding lack of rotation. For one, there sure will be a rotation for magblade - it's just optimal rotation will have longer period (because too many skills have different durations, so repetition period of the whole pattern will be longer). For another, people successfully use static rotations on magblade (one is given on Alcast's site for his 'Azure' build, and he, by own admittance, uses it in newer trials, "...because you actually have to focus on other things"). Apparently it's not a decisive DPS loss if they're doing score runs with that. Yes, OP is asking about perfect case, but I assume that he's not asking it just to do dummy parses, and it's a stretch to say that magblade doesn't have static rotation.

Thing is, if you want a static rotation then you're better off with a different class because they can pull off those more easily. Petsorcs for example lose very little dps doing a static 8s rotation.

All classes should run dynamic rotations because no class has all dots which are all the same length and refreshing dots early is a dps loss. You could be using a spammable instead.

Certain people write guides that are to be mass consumed so the best 'rotation' isn't always the one advertised to use.

There is one exception to that rule - magplar. Refreshing Vamp Bane every 8 seconds versus 10 is actually a dps gain because the first Vamp Bane DoT tick and initial hit always do damage at the same time, which does more damage than Elemental Weapon.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Runefang , I can understand all of the above. My point was, they are actually using the simpler static rotation on magblade in latest trials, and it's (according to gm of Hodor, since we're appealing to authority in this thread) apparently isn't big enough DPS loss to care about. It does come without saying that optimal rotation for any class neither leaves downtime nor refreshes skills too early, but the optimal isn't always the most practical. I was merely addressing the point that there's no rotation for magblades; well, there apparently is.

@hedna123b14_ESO , the "most likely" tells me that you didn't test? I mean, those are pure beliefs. On occasion, meta is meta precisely because someone decided it is. And I haven't seen actual testing, that's why I asked @Oreyn_Bearclaw about it - I'd be very curious to see the comparison.

1.Alcast is not someone who's advice I would ever consider seriously, because his builds cater to casual players. If you read some of the suggested sets and builds on his website, most are completely off the mark as far as the meta is concerned.
2. The "most likely" was there not to indicate that I'm not sure, but to indicate that its relative depending on the group. If your group is bad as in: people die a lot, things arent properly stacked, debuffs and buffs arent properly maintained then that will affect now much a bad rotation impacts your dps. But as you play with better groups or your group improves, the rotation will play a much larger role...
3. Like I mentioned above the sets that are meta are meticulously tested IN raids by all the top raiders. We all try different things, but usually all arrive at the same conclusion. So while there may be just a few streamers that put out the meta suggestions, all of their suggestions have been tested thoroughly by all of endgame community. That being said not all streamers are good. For example I would not follow anyone's advice except for Liko and LZH...

John_Falstaff

@hedna123b14_ESO - thing is, it again boils down to a matter of trust. You're asking me to trust and take it on faith that LIko and LZH, for example, have tested Thief+Julianos against Thief+MS to show the latter's advantage. I don't have anything against those people, but I don't know them and don't know how thorough they are. You sure they have tested thoroughly, or it's just a probability? Or someone in your guild have tested it and told you results?

As for Alcast, note that I did mention his own statement (from video) that he's personally using that simpler static rotation in latest trials. They seem to be a successful bunch. It doesn't give me numeric value of how much DPS loss is that, but apparently what remains is enough to run for leaderboards. That's why I'm saying that 'no rotation' is a stretch.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@hedna123b14_ESO - thing is, it again boils down to a matter of trust. You're asking me to trust and take it on faith that LIko and LZH, for example, have tested Thief+Julianos against Thief+MS to show the latter's advantage. I don't have anything against those people, but I don't know them and don't know how thorough they are. You sure they have tested thoroughly, or it's just a probability? Or someone in your guild have tested it and told you results?

As for Alcast, note that I did mention his own statement (from video) that he's personally using that simpler static rotation in latest trials. They seem to be a successful bunch. It doesn't give me numeric value of how much DPS loss is that, but apparently what remains is enough to run for leaderboards. That's why I'm saying that 'no rotation' is a stretch.

1. I find it hard to believe that you haven't heard of the best players in the game (PvE wise) if you do competitive PvE. I also think you're not reading what im writing. The point I made above and I guess I have to make again is that it's not JUST THEM. All of us who compete in endgame test set combinations. There are literally around 30-50 people who peer review (so to speak) each others work. It' literally impossible to get the meta wrong.
2. Alcast is not a good resource for end game content because as I mentioned before he doesnt cater to the endgame community.

John_Falstaff

I am sorry, I have very little respect for authority figures, I suppose that makes me less competitive. I have to live with it. But it's irrelevant. Just to remind, I had one point, and one question. Point goes as this: gm of obviously successful guild personally uses static rotation on magblade in latest trials, which makes statement of magblades not having a static rotation a stretch. I made that point. The question was: did anyone you know explicitly mentioned that they tested and compared those sets, or did you test them yourself? A simple "no" will do for an answer, in which case I have no more questions, thank you.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

@John_Falstaff

I perhaps should have qualified my statement. Of course you can force a static rotation onto mageblade, but its a DPS loss. The point I was making is that if you arent doing a Dynamic Rotation with a very high degree of accuracy, quibbling over sets that give a few % here or there just doesnt make a lot of sense, as you likely wont perceive a noticeable difference.

That said, if you are pushing things to the limits, than a half a percent difference here and there does matter, especially in a raid where everything scales. And nightblade with all their crit modifies scales perhaps better than any class. Look at Liko's page. He does a 52K parse on a 6 mill dummy with orbs ele, and I am assuming worm (cant remember). He then posts an 83k ST target parse on Valariel, which is a classic stack and burn with essentially no movement. That is essentially a 60% damage buff from his raid. Now maybe I am wrong, but I am pretty confident that saying he wouldnt hit those numbers and see that kind of scaling with a static rotation, or without BIS gear.

hedna123b14_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I am sorry, I have very little respect for authority figures, I suppose that makes me less competitive. I have to live with it. But it's irrelevant. Just to remind, I had one point, and one question. Point goes as this: gm of obviously successful guild personally uses static rotation on magblade in latest trials, which makes statement of magblades not having a static rotation a stretch. I made that point. The question was: did anyone you know explicitly mentioned that they tested and compared those sets, or did you test them yourself? A simple "no" will do for an answer, in which case I have no more questions, thank you.

Lol I thought you knew, he doesnt actually use the stuff he suggests...also im not even sure he still PvEs...he is not on any leaderboards...are you sure he is still GM?

The_Lex

.......Cult(s) of personality........

https://youtu.be/7xxgRUyzgs0

John_Falstaff

@hedna123b14_ESO , where personal insults begin, dialogue stops. When I listen to someone's admission on video, I assume they're honest; if you suspect he's lying - you can take it up with him. Aside from that, I can only says that it would appear that he's a GM, and his trial team just got new highest score for Cloudrest as of week ago (on PC/EU, ~1k higher than current top for PC/US). Details, I don't really track. Either way, I take it that your answer is "no", there were no test you're aware of. Thanks for feedback.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw , thanks for being constructive. And I'm not challenging the point that simple static rotation is a DPS loss, it surely is. I just wanted to say that it's not absolute; apparently, static might be more practical in more dynamic fights (as opposed to stack and burn).

As for sets and scaling - I think it's worth checking some time. I won't be categorical, maybe there are some raid buffs that scale in non-linear way with critical chance and/or spell damage (on top of those @Masel92 already have accounted for in his test), then damage with those sets will be scaling differently; there's always a room for an unknown. But I'd just say that it would be proper to give Thief+Julianos benefit of the doubt. Personally, if I'll ever cave in and give magblade a shot, I'll give it a test-drive if only for experiment's sake. I'd even say that, should it come within 5-10% to Thief+MS, it'd be a great discovery for people starting their builds and wanting to be as efficient as it gets with just a six-trait crafted set instead of one worth half a million gold.

rmmduece

I think all that was missing in this discussion was context. Masel is spot on that Julianos vs Mother’s sorrow is not very different, when solo, his testing method is for solo situations based on his description. As Oreyn said, if you are not an elite player using a dynamic rotation to maximize dps, you likely aren’t going to be in situations where the difference is noticeable, not trying to sound elitist, that’s just the likely reality. To which end Masel’s suggestion is perfectly fine as most players will not be able to notice much of a difference, and will never be in a raid that causes the difference in the sets to be noticeable, hence why he advocates that the average player save their gold for a dps difference they might not even see. Only the top endgame trials players will likely see a difference. This is because when in a raid with full buffs, Mother’s sorrow scales far better than Julianos.

TLDR, if solo or even in 4 man without full group buffs, most players will not notice a difference between the sets. In hardcore endgame raiding, the difference is noticeable, hence the top guilds suggesting/using Mother’s sorrow and thief. Solo testing doesn’t equal raid testing, as certain things scale better solo vs in raid. So your 55k solo parse setup might hit less in raid than your 50k solo parse setup (Unlikely to be that extreme, but possible).

Could have just summarized this at the start and no attitudes would have been needed, I would’ve thought multiple high end players would’ve been able to see that, but then again this is why new players don’t like competitive Pve, because there’s too many attitudes and too much toxicity and epeen for literally no reason. Let’s just all get along and share information more effectively by providing context, since that is everything these days gear wise. There are few/no setups that are bis for everything from vma to vdsa to trials. That said Liko and LZH are incredible players who bless us with great information for those looking to get into more competitive end game content and aren’t familiar with them.