black women hairstyles

ImmortalCX

I have a female redguard main, and while this seems like a good idea on the surface, they would run into the problem of perceived cultural appropriation.

Many white toons, nords, bretons, etc and others (argonians. khajit) would wear these hairstyles and be accused of doing so either ironically or as cultural appropriation. IRL, when a white women wears dreadlocks, she is often maligned so there is no reason to believe it wouldn't happen in-game.

IDK if there is a solution to include more diversity and avoid the storm that would inevitably follow. Possibly make it a crown store purchase?

inthecoconut

moonio wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

why isnt there a Zazie Beetz style afro

Because that hairstyle is mostly only ever seen in media promotions, advertising etc.
You would be hard pressed to find anyone sporting it in normal day to day life...

The question should be, why is the media obsessed with showing images of black women with afro hairstyles.

On the contrary, Afrocentric hair is a very common and for many it's how their hair naturally sits.

psychotrip

DenMoria wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

i know i probably wont get a lot of support for this, but there needs to be more and better options when it comes to black women's hairstyles...why isnt there a Zazie Beetz style afro (Domino from deadpool 2), or a ponytail puff? there is a plethora of black women hairstyles that can be used and it is very unfortunate that this hasn't been expanded upon...just my opinion

Do you have any knowledge of African cultures? What you're describing are modern hairstyles. ESO isn't set in 1965, 75, 85, 95, or the 2000s. Why would they have them?

...You know we've been wearing braids and cornrows since the dawn of human civilization, right? And afros are just kinda...what happens to our hair naturally? Also, this is a fantasy world. There are plenty of hairstyles in previous games that either don't exist in real life or wouldn't exist in whatever time period you think The Elder Scrolls is based on.

Edit: Photo for reference taken from Ancient Egypt:

Linaleah

max_only wrote: »

Anyway, Zos knows but doesn’t know. They gave an A plus effort with this hairstyle and it went... unappreciated to say the least

https://eso.mmo-fashion.com/wavy-triple-braided-updo/

words cannot describe how much i NEED this hairstyle. every once in a while I see someone with it and just... GIMME. alas, at the time it was on sale, i wasn't actively playing, so i missed out on buying it

also... found this
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/522980575457115530/

with litteraly 30 seconds of googling and that's just first of the results I clicked on. i understand that loose hair is difficult for ZoS to program due to the engine. a lot and i do mean a LOT of the hairstyles here are not flowing. so it should be at least as doable as the recent long haired style they added.

Sandman929

Lots of people talking about what is or isn't medieval or ethnic...you do know Tamriel isn't Earth, right? It's not in the past, and it's not based on our human civilization or races.

Tzayad

DenMoria wrote: »

barbarian340 wrote: »

i know i probably wont get a lot of support for this, but there needs to be more and better options when it comes to black women's hairstyles...why isnt there a Zazie Beetz style afro (Domino from deadpool 2), or a ponytail puff? there is a plethora of black women hairstyles that can be used and it is very unfortunate that this hasn't been expanded upon...just my opinion

Do you have any knowledge of African cultures? What you're describing are modern hairstyles. ESO isn't set in 1965, 75, 85, 95, or the 2000s. Why would they have them?

News flash: ESO isn't set in reality.

Also, there are a lot of modern hair styles already in the game, such as that emo/hair flip one, and many, many others.

newtinmpls

BKTHNDR wrote: »

I agree with this, as well. More hairstyles for PoC couldn't hurt and give everyone more options for unique looks.

And unlock the various options to every race.

I have mer who would like the "turban dreads" that seems to be only available for khajiit. I have a nord who would really like the "two ponytails" that seems to be only available on bosmer and orcs.

LadyNalcarya

newtinmpls wrote: »

BKTHNDR wrote: »

I agree with this, as well. More hairstyles for PoC couldn't hurt and give everyone more options for unique looks.

And unlock the various options to every race.

I have mer who would like the "turban dreads" that seems to be only available for khajiit. I have a nord who would really like the "two ponytails" that seems to be only available on bosmer and orcs.

You can use these pigtails on any human/mer character if you have the haistyle pack. Those adornment/marking/hair packs unlock a lot of stuff.
Unfortunately, khajiit dreadlocks are still locked and you cant use male hairstyles on female chars.

Danikat

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I have a female redguard main, and while this seems like a good idea on the surface, they would run into the problem of perceived cultural appropriation.

Many white toons, nords, bretons, etc and others (argonians. khajit) would wear these hairstyles and be accused of doing so either ironically or as cultural appropriation. IRL, when a white women wears dreadlocks, she is often maligned so there is no reason to believe it wouldn't happen in-game.

IDK if there is a solution to include more diversity and avoid the storm that would inevitably follow. Possibly make it a crown store purchase?

Not necessarily. Guild Wars 2 added lots of natural black hairstyles (in the spoiler below), which they pretty much had to do because they released an expansion set in Elona - which is based on North Africa and the Middle East - but they made them available to players too.

You can use them on any human character because all humans are 1 race in that game, you just pick a skin colour and hairstyle as part of character creation. I've not seen anyone complaining about cultural appropriation, and I rarely see anyone using them on lighter skinned characters.

(Note: the 'emo' one with the dyed strip is not intended to be natural black hair, but it was added at the same time so it's included in the gallery of new hair styles.)

psychotrip

Danikat wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I have a female redguard main, and while this seems like a good idea on the surface, they would run into the problem of perceived cultural appropriation.

Many white toons, nords, bretons, etc and others (argonians. khajit) would wear these hairstyles and be accused of doing so either ironically or as cultural appropriation. IRL, when a white women wears dreadlocks, she is often maligned so there is no reason to believe it wouldn't happen in-game.

IDK if there is a solution to include more diversity and avoid the storm that would inevitably follow. Possibly make it a crown store purchase?

Not necessarily. Guild Wars 2 added lots of natural black hairstyles (in the spoiler below), which they pretty much had to do because they released an expansion set in Elona - which is based on North Africa and the Middle East - but they made them available to players too.

You can use them on any human character because all humans are 1 race in that game, you just pick a skin colour and hairstyle as part of character creation. I've not seen anyone complaining about cultural appropriation, and I rarely see anyone using them on lighter skinned characters.

(Note: the 'emo' one with the dyed strip is not intended to be natural black hair, but it was added at the same time so it's included in the gallery of new hair styles.)

Not to speak for all black people and / or north africans, but I feel like people like to assume we'll complain about "cultural appropriation" for the most benign things imaginable. This is fine. No one cares. I for one would rather have MORE diverse hairstyles (especially when it suits an in-game race) than less. If anything, it's cultural inclusiveness, not appropriation.

Also fun fact: I have the same hair as the lady on the top right.

LadyNalcarya

psychotrip wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I have a female redguard main, and while this seems like a good idea on the surface, they would run into the problem of perceived cultural appropriation.

Many white toons, nords, bretons, etc and others (argonians. khajit) would wear these hairstyles and be accused of doing so either ironically or as cultural appropriation. IRL, when a white women wears dreadlocks, she is often maligned so there is no reason to believe it wouldn't happen in-game.

IDK if there is a solution to include more diversity and avoid the storm that would inevitably follow. Possibly make it a crown store purchase?

Not necessarily. Guild Wars 2 added lots of natural black hairstyles (in the spoiler below), which they pretty much had to do because they released an expansion set in Elona - which is based on North Africa and the Middle East - but they made them available to players too.

You can use them on any human character because all humans are 1 race in that game, you just pick a skin colour and hairstyle as part of character creation. I've not seen anyone complaining about cultural appropriation, and I rarely see anyone using them on lighter skinned characters.

(Note: the 'emo' one with the dyed strip is not intended to be natural black hair, but it was added at the same time so it's included in the gallery of new hair styles.)

Not to speak for all black people and / or north africans, but I feel like people like to assume we'll complain about "cultural appropriation" for the most benign things imaginable. This is fine. No one cares. I for one would rather have MORE diverse hairstyles (especially when it suits an in-game race) than less. If anything, it's cultural inclusiveness, not appropriation.

Also fun fact: I have the same hair as the lady on the top right.

This!
Culture is alive as long as people practice it, and if it influences other nations, then it is in fact a very powerful and awesome culture. I think we should celebrate cultural exchange and diversity, after all, dividing and "othering" people of different cultures never brought anything good or constructive.
Of course it's not ok to mimic elements of a certain culture to mock said culture, but that's not the case in this situation.

Taleof2Cities

I support this thread, too.

ArchMikem

You mean "Redguard Hairstyles".

Remember this isnt Earth. Also remember this definitely isnt a 1960's Tamriel.

MLGProPlayer

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...How on earth is a hairstyle race-centric?

As for Afro's....well I think there -is- an afro, but I dun play Redguard so I'm not sure. Furthermore, the Redguards in this game are much more affrican moors with a strong islamic/middle-eastern vibe and influence so you're more likely to see styles from that general culture.

The Moors were Berbers, who are essentially olive-skinned whites (think Arab, Greek, Spanish). Redguards are modelled after black Africans.

Examples of Berbers:

LadyNalcarya

ArchMikem wrote: »

Also remember this definitely isnt a 1960's Tamriel.

Well, afros and braids were popular since ancient times, there's a lot of artwork depicting Egyptians and Nubians with those hairstyles.

You can see them on mummies, too: example 1, example 2.

There are even wigs combining both.
So its not exactly new.

WarMasterCyp

barbarian340 wrote: »

i know i probably wont get a lot of support for this, but there needs to be more and better options when it comes to black women's hairstyles...why isnt there a Zazie Beetz style afro (Domino from deadpool 2), or a ponytail puff? there is a plethora of black women hairstyles that can be used and it is very unfortunate that this hasn't been expanded upon...just my opinion

Perhaps you can tell ZOS they can add some in crown store. But I guess it should be lore friendly ~ ish..

SickleCider

My friend is Berber. She has very "Arab" looking features and very "black" looking hair. There's a lot of diversity even within different ethnic groups, and for that reason, I don't think debating what specific ethnic group the Redguards were modeled after is the most productive thing to be doing right now. The point is that POC would like to see themselves represented more in media, and offering up more hair options would be something very much in keeping with the progressive attitude that ZOS seems to be trying to adhere to. Now, regarding what time period hair styles belong to, arguments about whether certain hairstyles would be anachronistic is a tactic you often see used to gate off things that are considered "too black" to be palatable. I hope that's not what some of these people are going for. Maybe they're just being needlessly negative, as they often are. It's a shame to see it happening, though.

MLGProPlayer

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I have a female redguard main, and while this seems like a good idea on the surface, they would run into the problem of perceived cultural appropriation.

Many white toons, nords, bretons, etc and others (argonians. khajit) would wear these hairstyles and be accused of doing so either ironically or as cultural appropriation. IRL, when a white women wears dreadlocks, she is often maligned so there is no reason to believe it wouldn't happen in-game.

IDK if there is a solution to include more diversity and avoid the storm that would inevitably follow. Possibly make it a crown store purchase?

This is a horrible reason not to include more diverse hairstyles.

Nobody will call out a white character for wearing a black hairstyle. I can assure you of that. And if ZOS really wanted to, they could make some hairstyles race-specific.

Linaleah

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...How on earth is a hairstyle race-centric?

As for Afro's....well I think there -is- an afro, but I dun play Redguard so I'm not sure. Furthermore, the Redguards in this game are much more affrican moors with a strong islamic/middle-eastern vibe and influence so you're more likely to see styles from that general culture.

The Moors were Berbers, who are essentially olive-skinned whites (think Arab, Greek, Spanish). Redguards are modelled after black Africans.

Examples of Berbers:

UMM. like many north african people Berbers look a wide variety of ways, and what you have shown above is only one of the ways.



etc. this is from 16th century, but I can find earlier works to if i keep looking. there is a reason Othello is portrayed the way he is - he is supposed to be a Moor, play is based on 16th century story, called the Moorish captain. and so on, and so forth.

also a modern Berber


While Berbers do show islamic influences as they were conqueured and converted to islam around 9th or so century... they also kept original cultural traditions along the way AND some of the phenotype.

its kinda like Egyptians. you have Rami malek who is most certainly Egyptian. and you also have

kinda like Redguards also coming in variety of shades from very dark to almost light. but even given diversity of skin colors, what we don't have is selection of hairstyles for curly/kinky hair. which is still a darn shame. especially since its not just redguards that could technically have that particular hair texture in Elder scrolls universe.

SickleCider

@Linaleah Thank you.

MLGProPlayer

Versispellis wrote: »

My friend is Berber. She has very "Arab" looking features and very "black" looking hair. There's a lot of diversity even within different ethnic groups, and for that reason, I don't think debating what specific ethnic group the Redguards were modeled after is the most productive thing to be doing right now. The point is that POC would like to see themselves represented more in media, and offering up more hair options would be something very much in keeping with the progressive attitude that ZOS seems to be trying to adhere to. Now, regarding what time period hair styles belong to, arguments about whether certain hairstyles would be anachronistic is a tactic you often see used to gate off things that are considered "too black" to be palatable. I hope that's not what some of these people are going for. Maybe they're just being needlessly negative, as they often are. It's a shame to see it happening, though.

Wiry hair (but not true afro-texture as far as I'm aware) isn't uncommon among any Middle Eastern group (you see it among Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, and even some southern Europeans). My point was that Berbers are light skinned, while Redguards can be made very dark. This means that Redguards are not modelled only after the Berbers, as some posters suggested. If anything, they represent all the races of IRL Africa.

SickleCider

@MLGProPlayer Don't worry, I wasn't trying to single you out. I know what you were trying to go for, and I appreciate it. We're ultimately on the same side of the argument.

max_only

1. No one said Berber we said Moor. And we only brought it up to point to the anachronistic argument (that the hair was too modern and no one in the Middle Ages wore their hair like that)
2. It doesn’t matter anyway because Redguards aren’t from the planet Earth.
3. There are Bretons that can use these styles. Ashlander Dunmer would also look good in them. Orcs and Khajiit will also use them. Edit to add: Bosmer will also look cute in them too.

Sylvermynx

Wow, I would LOVE to see this. Though I'm total white-bread as far back as I can track (which is the 1100s in Europe - Britain, Brittany, Germany), back when I was working a horrible job in the mid-70s, I had my hairdresser do me an afro with teensy (like toothpick size) perm rods - took forever to wind, even as short as it was, and it cost me three times what a normal perm would have. Talk about wash and wear hair though, that I didn't have to have cut every three weeks like my previous short styles - it was great! My girls in game really need something more too - I would love to see more braided styles and dreads that don't look like lumps.... And not just my RGs either!

kargen27

I want to throw in they should also do away with hair styles specific to one sex. I dread seeing a big fat male orc wearing a wedding dress and sporting pig tails but that is a chance I would take I suppose.

Reverb

You spelled "Redguard" wrong

LadyLethalla

This is a refreshing change from all the Cyro rage threads...
On topic I would also like more diverse hair options, including colour streaks. I don't remember when it was, but there was a hair style in the Crown store that was black hair with a red stripe or stripes, and my main - Redguard - wishes she had it. I would really like that. Or blue, even... sigh... I miss Oblivion, where my characters could have bright blue, green or purple hair.
And I would like existing hairstyles to flow better.

Smasherx74

Khajit and reguard have a few hair styles like that, but I think they should add more vanilla character creation features in general.

LadyNalcarya

DBZVelena wrote: »

wholeheartedly agree and omg are there a lot of Afrikan hair styles to choose from.

Oh and somebody thinking dreads are modern hairstyle... You know those statues of ancient egyptians? They weren't wearing wigs, that is white dude ***. That were dreads, simply because white dude couldn't have his hair like that, doesnt mean other peoples couldn't. Stop white-washing history!

Sad but true.
Well, when ancient artists depicted their queen like this:

And then people in modern days "reconstruct" her appearance like this:

No wonder that we have those stereotypes.

Linaleah

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Versispellis wrote: »

My friend is Berber. She has very "Arab" looking features and very "black" looking hair. There's a lot of diversity even within different ethnic groups, and for that reason, I don't think debating what specific ethnic group the Redguards were modeled after is the most productive thing to be doing right now. The point is that POC would like to see themselves represented more in media, and offering up more hair options would be something very much in keeping with the progressive attitude that ZOS seems to be trying to adhere to. Now, regarding what time period hair styles belong to, arguments about whether certain hairstyles would be anachronistic is a tactic you often see used to gate off things that are considered "too black" to be palatable. I hope that's not what some of these people are going for. Maybe they're just being needlessly negative, as they often are. It's a shame to see it happening, though.

Wiry hair (but not true afro-texture as far as I'm aware) isn't uncommon among any Middle Eastern group (you see it among Jews, Arabs, Assyrians, and even some southern Europeans). My point was that Berbers are light skinned, while Redguards can be made very dark. This means that Redguards are not modelled only after the Berbers, as some posters suggested. If anything, they represent all the races of IRL Africa.

as someone with large portion of the family on mother side is absolutely chock full of jewfros - I concur but seriously. it is a fantasy world with magic coexisting with robotics technology and somehow we cannot have variety of hairstyles for kinky/curly hair?

P.S. Berbers as far as i know, like Egyptians, come in variety of phenotypes. they can be lightskinned, darkskinned and everything in between. none are more or less valid than the other.