The current state of the Warden.

LeHarrt91

I will try my best to keep this as constructive as i can.

The Warden is my favourite class by far, i have a Magicka and Stamina version of every class but i also go back to the warden. Unfortunately there are a lot of issues at the moment, Im not going to waffle on, ill just get straight into it but this will mainly be about Magicka DPS.

Class Stun:

The only class stuns the Warden has are Ultimates, a 200 cost Ultimate Permafrost which only stuns if the target is hit by the damage 3 times or a Pet Ultimate that sometimes stuns. Lets compare this to other classes.

Sorcerer: Has a stun in each tree.
Storm Atronach - AoE stun when summoned
Volatile Familiar - AoE stun after 8 secs
Rune Prison - Undodgeable and Unblockable
Crystl Blast - Single Target stun (tho with cast time)
Bolt Escaspe - AoE stun
Honorable mention to Negate that Stun NPCs and Silences players

Templar:
Piercing Javelin - Stun and Knock Back
Focused Charge - Stun and Interrupt
Nova - Synergy activation stuns

Dragonknight:
Dragonleap - Knockback and Stun
Deep Breath - Casting enemies are interrupted and stunned
Stonefist - Single Target Stun
Petrify - Undodgable and Unblockable

Nightblade:
Incap - Stun (PTS changes noted) Defile + 20% extra damge
Teleport Strike - Stun
Veiled Strike - When invisible it stuns
Aspect of Terror - Not a stun but a Hard CC
Soul Tether - AoE Stun
Master Assassin - extends stun duration

The Warden is forced to use Weapon skills to get their on demand stun. Giving them an on demand stun is vital, and its been suggested on the Warden Feedback thread that either Arctic Blast, Frozen Device, Natures Grasp etc get a stun, as they have removed it off of Deep Fissure, because they do not want high damage skills to also have powerful effects.


Comparable DPS:

At the moment to get comparable DPS we have to use the Feral Guardian Ultimate with either War Machine or Master Architect. As the Bear makes up for so much damage and also gives a high up time of Major Slayer and is also the class Execute. Without the Bear and WM/ MA they fall behind, and besides ultimates they only have 4 class damage skills.

Our skills just deal damage without added effects, Screaming Cliff Racer deals extra damage at range, Swarm either goes AoE or Deals more damage every second cast, Deep Fissure has Major Breach with is applied by Ransack or Elemental Drain. Winters Revenge does maim and snare though. We use Elemental Weapon over Cliff Racer so that we can have a chance to apply status effects. There have been many suggestions in Warden Threads since their release but alas.... nothing.

Also Passives like Advanced Species gives benefit for each Animal Companion skill slotted but you will never get max benefit as you cannot have a bar full of Animal Companion skills as you need at least 1 Destro skill to get the Ancient Knowledge passive (if magicka) which at level 2 requires a Destruction skill to be slotted to get the 8% damage boost. Removing this requirement will also bring build diversity.


Tanking and Healing:

They are good in both aspects at the moment, an on demand stun will help tanking and a HoT on Budding Seeds will help healing. Also updating some of the Green Balance and Winters Embrace passives will help both as Minor Toughness (in regards to endgame PVE) in given by War Horn. These issues have been talked about in Warden Threads since their release over a year ago.


I believe that the Class design its actually one of its flaws. The Warden has clear skill trees for Tanking, Healing and DPS without any/many passives that cross over and help the other skill tress. And its been pointed out by a few players that their use across all Platforms for End Game use is at or below 4%

We Wardens are in dire need of positive adjustments and essential skills.

Cendrillion21

I admire anyone who is hanging in there with their Warden, I have retired mine for now.

I still think there is a lot of potential for this class.

LittlePinkDot

What about using the time freeze skill from psijic order.

AlienatedGoat

Currently playing a warden tank a lot. While it is solid and very fun to play, I can't help but miss many things from DK.

LeHarrt91

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

What about using the time freeze skill from psijic order.

Time Stop is a World Skill that everyone has access to, I'm specifically talking about Class only stuns.

Datthaw

/playdead <found them

MLGProPlayer

The class has been awful ever since it released.

It was okay for a bit in PvP due to cheese mechanics like undodgeable cliff racer and a stun on shalks, but they've always been awful in PvE. There is a reason why no one uses them in endgame.

- Low damage
- No class utility
- Cannot use AOE ultimate

ZOS scammed us when they sold us this class.

Chaos2088

It does need a rework, but hey many before me have said this.....

White wabbit

Depends how it's reworked I'm rocking a health warden in PvP and loving it , Arctic blast is great for me but I've seen some wanting it changed to work off magic which would ruin my build

DanielWinterborn

I also play magicka warden and I agree with all your points. It seems that all I am able to do is deal damage with one basic rotation and let's be honest, even maxed out for damage output is still not enough to make it work the time.

Add to that the bad animations of cliff racer, the small range of action of fissure, always having to fire it in a straight line in a game that is 100% based on movement... It's just bad. The cliff racer animation really messes up the weave of light attacks too.

The warden was good back when cliff racer couldn't be dodged and fissure stunned but now... Not so much.

LeHarrt91

White wabbit wrote: »

Depends how it's reworked I'm rocking a health warden in PvP and loving it , Arctic blast is great for me but I've seen some wanting it changed to work off magic which would ruin my build

From what I have been reading is that they want arctic blast and polar wind to be the same morph, so your build would actually be getting a buff as you can heal an ally. Then camel a morph that deals damage and scales with magical.

kylewwefan

I have been able to get my Stam Warden up to 36K solo with a fairly simple rotation and not much special gear (VO/TFS)

While this isn’t spectacular damage anymore, it’s pretty good. Most people are surprised by this, expecting it to be bad because it’s Warden.

Sure, I wish there was a stun from sub assault and an execute that wasn’t an ultimate.

I’m not on some high end raid team, but I suspect if you put a whole team of top tier raiders on a warden only run; they would still be top tier and everyone would be calling for nerfs.

Anhedonie

I mean, why would you want to play warden and deal with its clunky godawful mechanics, if you can put as much effort into nightblade and get a lot better result?

Class in a dire need of redesign. Not just number adjustments.
I'd especially like devs to take a look at healing and frost trees.

Starlight_Knight

I was very excited when the Warden came out and i immediately re-rolled my main NB and did all crafting and things on my Warden.
Personally i thought the class was lacking when it came out, but i loved the play style so i stuck with it.
Since then its had 3 HUGE nerfs regarding PVP.

Now we have to play with no undodgeable skills, No CC, and no burst potential.

I wonder is it just because its behind a pay wall that ZOS fear the class being pay to win if they were to buff it.. ???

Edit - still no class execute either.. oh yea a bear ulti thats impossible to time in pvp, mostly because its not even there. its trying to pathfind its way down a rock 100 meters away. At leased give this thing a gap closer when we press the ulti button.. oh and fix the "re-spawn when killed" effect.

Feanor

StamWarden is still great as it has had to endure no real nerfs yet. MagWardens though...

Lysette

I lately found out that even a hybrid warden is a viable option - but I am still level 22 with it (it's just my 3rd day playing him), so I will have to see, for now I am very well off with that build.

tinythinker

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

I wonder is it just because its behind a pay wall that ZOS fear the class being pay to win if they were to buff it.. ???

That's been one of the most popular guesses by players. Makes sense, but that alone doesn't make it true.

Memnock

Hate to say this but Warden has been ( still is in my eyes ) an Alpha build reject. This class was scrapped before ESO went live 4 years ago , due to it being too similar to the other 4 , just with a bit of a recolor of skills , i mean the healing tree of the warden is a mish-mash of templar and the resto skill line , the menajerie tree , is a sorc thing and the tanking tree... i mean... DKs , need i say more than that ?

Unfortunately , this means that it will take a loong time untill your class will get something that resembles positive changes that make sense , due to the simple fact that the class needs to does not really have a proper identity , like the rest do.

Lysette

But is is a really good class if you want to go solo - even without the bear it is a good class in PvE solo. I use my bear rarely, he tends to trigger any trap nearby, going for it, when he is out.

mb10

Warden is in serious need of more DPS options.

Especially in the winters embrace skill line


I personally think Arctic Blast must increase its DPS and Frozen Gate must become viable because it isnt viable anywhere atm not in PVP or PVE

RexyCat

Hayden_Knight wrote: »

I was very excited when the Warden came out and i immediately re-rolled my main NB and did all crafting and things on my Warden.
Personally i thought the class was lacking when it came out, but i loved the play style so i stuck with it.
Since then its had 3 HUGE nerfs regarding PVP.

Now we have to play with no undodgeable skills, No CC, and no burst potential.

I wonder is it just because its behind a pay wall that ZOS fear the class being pay to win if they were to buff it.. ???

Edit - still no class execute either.. oh yea a bear ulti thats impossible to time in pvp, mostly because its not even there. its trying to pathfind its way down a rock 100 meters away. At leased give this thing a gap closer when we press the ulti button.. oh and fix the "re-spawn when killed" effect.

Actually a class execute shouldn't be on an ultimate, but in one of class skill lines for every class. The way Wardens ultimate have been design made into a middle ground of class skill and ulti as you are supposed to have bear up almost all the time (re-summoned on death). In reality this doesn't work as there are too many bugs with bears AI, path finding and how bear can suddenly disappear even without getting killed. You don't have full control with a moving Ultimate that should be able to act as it was an independent being (Bear) as long you are with in range to get bear follow you and at the same time be ready to do on demand damage and execute when target reach a certain limit in HP.

POps75p

Cendrillion21 wrote: »

I admire anyone who is hanging in there with their Warden, I have retired mine for now.

I still think there is a lot of potential for this class.

mine is doing great job of holding all of my extra items that I don't want to get ride of, plus she does not steal anything

Lysette

Hm, the bear actually teleports, if he falls behind - I guess you are just too fast for your bear to follow.

theyancey

I love my mag warden. I just wish that she was actually playable.

Asardes

Well people whined that the class is P2W, and the developers, as usual, introduced knee-jerk nerfs to please the whiners. At the same time they nerfed some of the elements that made the other classes unique, and Templar has suffered the brunt of it. I hope they don't put any new class in the game for a long time. Better stick to what we have, fix bugs and improve balance, rather than add more classes and inevitably dilute class identity even more. What's the point of having 101 classes if they end up doing pretty much the same things, with different animations?

RexyCat

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

What about using the time freeze skill from psijic order.

I have used both morphs of Time Stop on my MagSorcerer and my impression is that it is more a snare with slow, then a stun as both morphs take too long time to actually stun enemies (instant use; 4 second to stun and the other morph is possible interrupt if you change ability bar too fast, meaning that you don't get any stun or snares/slow, if you change ability bar or have been interrupted from NPC/player). On my sorcerer I had to combine a class immobilize like Deadric Tomb to prevent foe's from getting too near too fast.

In short: Time Stop and morphs are not a replacement for class skills to get a working crown control for Warden.

Lysette

Asardes wrote: »

Well people whined that the class is P2W, and the developers, as usual, introduced knee-jerk nerfs to please the whiners. At the same time they nerfed some of the elements that made the other classes unique, and Templar has suffered the brunt of it. I hope they don't put any new class in the game for a long time. Better stick to what we have, fix bugs and improve balance, rather than add more classes and inevitably dilute class identity even more. What's the point of having 101 classes if they end up doing pretty much the same things, with different animations?

I don't know why it could possibly be pay to win - the warden class has nothing where it excels, it is a jack-of-all-trades class, can do anything, excels in nothing. it is nevertheless my favorite class, because it is different, not because it would be extremely good.

jypcy

RexyCat wrote: »

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

What about using the time freeze skill from psijic order.

I have used both morphs of Time Stop on my MagSorcerer and my impression is that it is more a snare with slow, then a stun as both morphs take too long time to actually stun enemies (instant use; 4 second to stun and the other morph is possible interrupt if you change ability bar too fast, meaning that you don't get any stun or snares/slow, if you change ability bar or have been interrupted from NPC/player). On my sorcerer I had to combine a class immobilize like Deadric Tomb to prevent foe's from getting too near too fast.

In short: Time Stop and morphs are not a replacement for class skills to get a working crown control for Warden.

Gripping shards is fine for wardens as pve crowd control: far better than what Templars and NBs have, roughly on par with what DKs have, and situationally better than what sorcs have. And time stop is fine for crowd control as well. I’ll grant it’s not as easy to use nor as effective for general cc as talons, gripping shards, or encase, but it does have a leg up for being a full stun and able to be aimed.

Peekachu99

Biggest issue with the class is the amount of buffs necessary (magika especially) to make it competitive. A Sorc has two: Surge and Storm. NB has like one at best. DK has one two three. Warden...FIVE BUFFS. That’s an entire bar that needs to be worked into a rotation before any other skills or abilities. Ridiculous. A lot of these should be worked into the passives to free up space for actual gameplay.

OtarTheMad

I love the Warden class, a lot of potential but for me my Warden is semi-retired. I just use him to run around and collect nodes and quest a bit. My suggestion is to find and get the Class Rep thread for Wardens going again and sharing more input.

It's sad though because in past TES games I loved playing ice mages but can't make them work in this game.

Priyasekarssk

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

I will try my best to keep this as constructive as i can.

The Warden is my favourite class by far, i have a Magicka and Stamina version of every class but i also go back to the warden. Unfortunately there are a lot of issues at the moment, Im not going to waffle on, ill just get straight into it but this will mainly be about Magicka DPS.

Class Stun:

The only class stuns the Warden has are Ultimates, a 200 cost Ultimate Permafrost which only stuns if the target is hit by the damage 3 times or a Pet Ultimate that sometimes stuns. Lets compare this to other classes.

Sorcerer: Has a stun in each tree.
Storm Atronach - AoE stun when summoned
Volatile Familiar - AoE stun after 8 secs
Rune Prison - Undodgeable and Unblockable
Crystl Blast - Single Target stun (tho with cast time)
Bolt Escaspe - AoE stun
Honorable mention to Negate that Stun NPCs and Silences players

Templar:
Piercing Javelin - Stun and Knock Back
Focused Charge - Stun and Interrupt
Nova - Synergy activation stuns

Dragonknight:
Dragonleap - Knockback and Stun
Deep Breath - Casting enemies are interrupted and stunned
Stonefist - Single Target Stun
Petrify - Undodgable and Unblockable

Nightblade:
Incap - Stun (PTS changes noted) Defile + 20% extra damge
Teleport Strike - Stun
Veiled Strike - When invisible it stuns
Aspect of Terror - Not a stun but a Hard CC
Soul Tether - AoE Stun
Master Assassin - extends stun duration

The Warden is forced to use Weapon skills to get their on demand stun. Giving them an on demand stun is vital, and its been suggested on the Warden Feedback thread that either Arctic Blast, Frozen Device, Natures Grasp etc get a stun, as they have removed it off of Deep Fissure, because they do not want high damage skills to also have powerful effects.


Comparable DPS:

At the moment to get comparable DPS we have to use the Feral Guardian Ultimate with either War Machine or Master Architect. As the Bear makes up for so much damage and also gives a high up time of Major Slayer and is also the class Execute. Without the Bear and WM/ MA they fall behind, and besides ultimates they only have 4 class damage skills.

Our skills just deal damage without added effects, Screaming Cliff Racer deals extra damage at range, Swarm either goes AoE or Deals more damage every second cast, Deep Fissure has Major Breach with is applied by Ransack or Elemental Drain. Winters Revenge does maim and snare though. We use Elemental Weapon over Cliff Racer so that we can have a chance to apply status effects. There have been many suggestions in Warden Threads since their release but alas.... nothing.

Also Passives like Advanced Species gives benefit for each Animal Companion skill slotted but you will never get max benefit as you cannot have a bar full of Animal Companion skills as you need at least 1 Destro skill to get the Ancient Knowledge passive (if magicka) which at level 2 requires a Destruction skill to be slotted to get the 8% damage boost. Removing this requirement will also bring build diversity.


Tanking and Healing:

They are good in both aspects at the moment, an on demand stun will help tanking and a HoT on Budding Seeds will help healing. Also updating some of the Green Balance and Winters Embrace passives will help both as Minor Toughness (in regards to endgame PVE) in given by War Horn. These issues have been talked about in Warden Threads since their release over a year ago.


I believe that the Class design its actually one of its flaws. The Warden has clear skill trees for Tanking, Healing and DPS without any/many passives that cross over and help the other skill tress. And its been pointed out by a few players that their use across all Platforms for End Game use is at or below 4%

We Wardens are in dire need of positive adjustments and essential skills.

Both wardens are pretty much fine in PVP. Dont beg for anything PVP except a good CC.

On PVE its horrible class. Its dps is too low when compared to other classes. Often unplayable in PVE.