Convert S&B Heroic Slash/Deep Slash to a Bleed like Dual Wield Twin Slashes

Twohothardware

With the snare nerf Heroic Slash/Deep Slash is a S&B skill that is becoming less and less worth taking up a skill slot. Right now it's really only useful if you're a tank in PvE just to get minor maim.

So what about changing it to deal bleed damage instead like the two Skills Twin Slashes and Carve? This would provide better DPS for S&B and if Power Slam could ever get a damage buff as well we could finally maybe see a a slight change of meta for something other than just blocking and Reverb Bash for Major Defile.

Thoughts?

Gprime31

And give up the ultgen slow and dmg? Why

casparian

The weapon skill lines are balanced by each offering a distinct advantage: Two-Handed has burst CC, Dual Wield has a strong single-target bleed, and One Handed and Shield has Defile. Each line has other useful things to offer, and I would argue that in general 1H&S has the most to offer, but they’re balanced by each having proprietary access to their unique buff. If Heroic needs a buff, I’d hope a way could be found to help it that didn’t give 1H&S access to DW’s proprietary advantage. Maybe if the bleed stayed weak, like Carve’s, that would be enough.

(Incidentally, this is one reason stamblade is so strong: it has access to burst CC, DW bleeds, and Defile all at once. No other class can do that.)

Twohothardware

casparian wrote: »

The weapon skill lines are balanced by each offering a distinct advantage: Two-Handed has burst CC, Dual Wield has a strong single-target bleed, and One Handed and Shield has Defile. Each line has other useful things to offer, and I would argue that in general 1H&S has the most to offer, but they’re balanced by each having proprietary access to their unique buff. If Heroic needs a buff, I’d hope a way could be found to help it that didn’t give 1H&S access to DW’s proprietary advantage. Maybe if the bleed stayed weak, like Carve’s, that would be enough.

(Incidentally, this is one reason stamblade is so strong: it has access to burst CC, DW bleeds, and Defile all at once. No other class can do that.)

DW would still have the bleed advantage, AOE advantage, and total damage advantage they do currently. Two weapons slotted is still higher damage than S&B, you get two enchant procs instead of one, S&B has no AOE skills, and the Twin Blade and Blunt passive that can proc bleeds for two axes whereas S&B gets no passive bonus for the 1 weapon. Two Handed has a bleed as well in Carve, just a lot of people don't use it.

And I'm not talking about the S&B bleed dealing the same total damage as Twin Slashes, just for it to be bleed damage instead of direct damage so that the skill still has a real use in combination with the other S&B skill line. The long snare is the main reason it was run prior for classes like DK in PvP and right now the only thing most are running from S&B is Reverb Bash for Defile.

Xsorus

Reverb got gutted this patch and is no longer usable in pvp

Twohothardware

Xsorus wrote: »

Reverb got gutted this patch and is no longer usable in pvp

Exactly. Major Defile cut from 10 seconds to only 4 seconds. I welcome a nerf to all sources of Major Defile but this is a direct nerf to S&B which at this point is only being used for tanking in PvE and Reverb Bash in PvP. Skills other than Reverb Bash really aren't being used in PvP and the huge majority of players in PvE are DPS.

S&B needs more DPS. You need to be able to do more than just hold block with a shield because the meta right now is dodge rolling and shuffle shuffle shuffle, not blocking.

Ragnarock41

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though. I don't think SnB needs more dps, I think 2h and dual wield needs better spammables.

I suspect that the duroks will replace the void of reverb bash for stamDks and petrify will make up for the lack of CC. As for classes like stamden or stamsorc, the CC and low uptime on defile could still be beneficial since they already have high kill potential even without the defile.

Twohothardware

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

Ragnarock41

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture(and costs much less), and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Twohothardware

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Heavy armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum, and you also got a strong snare out of it. That snare is now majorly nerfed and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

Ragnarock41

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

And stamDk's existance is tied to 2 hander skill trees. Having shuffle or not does not change this fact. %99.9 of stamDk pvp builds will have 2h , no matter if they want it or not because it is not an option. You HAVE TO have 2h.

You still need a source of major brutality, you still need a good execute and you still need a gapcloser especially without forward momentum you need gapcloser even more.

Morgul667

I personally find One hand and shield to be one of the best weapon skill line

Defile
Stun
Charge
Ult regen
Resistance decrease
Decent damage with good defensive passive

Twohothardware

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

There would be even less reason to use it then with no snare at all unless it was converted as I said to bleed damage so you could use it in a rotation with other S&B skills like Puncture. And right now even before this upcoming patch I don't see Heroic Slash as popular at all.

I think you'd have to spend a good amount of time to find any post Summerset builds suggesting using it. I was looking at one of Alcasts recent StamDK builds for Summerset that's built entirely around Ultimate Regen as the focus and even there he doesn't suggest slotting it.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

Ragnarock41

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

There would be even less reason to use it then with no snare at all unless it was converted as I said to bleed damage so you could use it in a rotation with other S&B skills like Puncture. And right now even before this upcoming patch I don't see Heroic Slash as popular at all.

I think you'd have to spend a good amount of time to find any post Summerset builds suggesting using it. I was looking at one of Alcasts recent StamDK builds for Summerset that's built entirely around Ultimate Regen as the focus and even there he doesn't suggest slotting it.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

That does not prove anything. Heroic slash is doing fine(Whenever there is an SnB sorc or warden, I see heroic slash being used.). It was always used by mainly stamDks, and its only not used because stamDK sustain sucks right now, and noxious is , as mentioned, got pretty outdated in terms of cost effectiveness.

Besides all that, we have enough bleeds in this game. Bleeds are just as cancer as oblivion damage and I don't think the game needs more of them.

(Also no offense to Alcast, but that is probably the single worst Dk build he ever uploaded, he's not going to kill ANYTHING, with it, with weapon damage lower than 3k and no crit whatsoever, and not to mention he tries especially hard to achieve good sustain yet his sustain still struggles. I can't really blame the guy. Anything but running 2 damage sets feels meh on stamDk.)

Twohothardware

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

There would be even less reason to use it then with no snare at all unless it was converted as I said to bleed damage so you could use it in a rotation with other S&B skills like Puncture. And right now even before this upcoming patch I don't see Heroic Slash as popular at all.

I think you'd have to spend a good amount of time to find any post Summerset builds suggesting using it. I was looking at one of Alcasts recent StamDK builds for Summerset that's built entirely around Ultimate Regen as the focus and even there he doesn't suggest slotting it.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

That does not prove anything. Heroic slash is doing fine. It was always used by mainly stamDks, and its only not used because stamDK sustain sucks right now, and noxious is , as mentioned, got pretty outdated in terms of cost effectiveness.

Besides all that, we have enough bleeds in this game. Bleeds are just as cancer as oblivion damage and I don't think the game needs more of them.

(Also no offense to Alcast, but that is probably the single worst Dk build he ever uploaded, he's not going to kill ANYTHING, with it, with weapon damage lower than 3k and no crit whatsoever)

Again, I'm asking you HOW it's doing fine. It's not used on StamDK's any more because the snare got majorly nerfed and loads of people are running Forward Momentum giving snare immunity for 8 seconds.

Also, my point wasn't to post a great build, it was to show how even a build focused entirely around Ult Regen isn't even using Heroic Slash to get the Minor Heroism buff. Because it's not worth trading for other better Skills on any class.

Ragnarock41

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

There would be even less reason to use it then with no snare at all unless it was converted as I said to bleed damage so you could use it in a rotation with other S&B skills like Puncture. And right now even before this upcoming patch I don't see Heroic Slash as popular at all.

I think you'd have to spend a good amount of time to find any post Summerset builds suggesting using it. I was looking at one of Alcasts recent StamDK builds for Summerset that's built entirely around Ultimate Regen as the focus and even there he doesn't suggest slotting it.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

That does not prove anything. Heroic slash is doing fine. It was always used by mainly stamDks, and its only not used because stamDK sustain sucks right now, and noxious is , as mentioned, got pretty outdated in terms of cost effectiveness.

Besides all that, we have enough bleeds in this game. Bleeds are just as cancer as oblivion damage and I don't think the game needs more of them.

(Also no offense to Alcast, but that is probably the single worst Dk build he ever uploaded, he's not going to kill ANYTHING, with it, with weapon damage lower than 3k and no crit whatsoever)

Again, I'm asking you HOW it's doing fine. It's not used on StamDK's any more because the snare got majorly nerfed and loads of people are running Forward Momentum giving snare immunity for 8 seconds.

Also, my point wasn't to post a great build, it was to show how even a build focused entirely around Ult Regen isn't even using Heroic Slash to get the Minor Heroism buff. Because it's not worth trading for other better Skills on any class.

This is the third time, me explaining you HOW its doing fine. So try to READ, what I actually say. Because I won't repeat myself for 4th time.

heroic slash has:

Tooltip that is similar to suprise attack
instant cast similar to suprise attack(Which makes it superior against uppercut or flurry)
has a strong snare which is long enough to cripple shuffle or wing users with their short 2 to 3 second immunities.
has minor maim
has minor heroism.
has a big cost to balance it out.

I don't think my posts are hard to understand, I think YOU, refuse to understand what is clearly written. In my first two posts I clearly explained why I prefer ransack over heroic slash, and I also explained the lack of heroic slash in people's recaps is due to the slow death of SnB meta and the bleed meta replacing it.

What does changing heroic slash into a bleed dot would do? It would add even more no counterplay damage into the game that is already very unbalanced. Bleeds need a clear nerf. Heroic slash is fine as it is, it could use some cost reduction which isn't even an issue on classes like sorc or warden.

This is a ''sDK sustain sucks'' issue, more than a ''heroic slash sucks'' issue.

Twohothardware

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Medium armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum and you also got a strong snare. Snare is now all but gone and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

I would be fine with a snare removal for a reduction in the cost of heroic slash I guess. Then again, heroic slash is still popular for classes that don't have to worry about building sustain like stamsorcs, stamdens. That is if they go for SnB.

There would be even less reason to use it then with no snare at all unless it was converted as I said to bleed damage so you could use it in a rotation with other S&B skills like Puncture. And right now even before this upcoming patch I don't see Heroic Slash as popular at all.

I think you'd have to spend a good amount of time to find any post Summerset builds suggesting using it. I was looking at one of Alcasts recent StamDK builds for Summerset that's built entirely around Ultimate Regen as the focus and even there he doesn't suggest slotting it.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-dragonknight-pvp-build2/

That does not prove anything. Heroic slash is doing fine. It was always used by mainly stamDks, and its only not used because stamDK sustain sucks right now, and noxious is , as mentioned, got pretty outdated in terms of cost effectiveness.

Besides all that, we have enough bleeds in this game. Bleeds are just as cancer as oblivion damage and I don't think the game needs more of them.

(Also no offense to Alcast, but that is probably the single worst Dk build he ever uploaded, he's not going to kill ANYTHING, with it, with weapon damage lower than 3k and no crit whatsoever)

Again, I'm asking you HOW it's doing fine. It's not used on StamDK's any more because the snare got majorly nerfed and loads of people are running Forward Momentum giving snare immunity for 8 seconds.

Also, my point wasn't to post a great build, it was to show how even a build focused entirely around Ult Regen isn't even using Heroic Slash to get the Minor Heroism buff. Because it's not worth trading for other better Skills on any class.

This is the third time, me explaining you HOW its doing fine. So try to READ, what I actually say. Because I won't repeat myself for 4th time.

heroic slash has:

Tooltip that is similar to suprise attack
instant cast similar to suprise attack(Which makes it superior against uppercut or flurry)
has a strong snare which is long enough to cripple shuffle or wing users with their short 2 to 3 second immunities.
has minor maim
has minor heroism.
has a big cost to balance it out.

I don't think my posts are hard to understand, I think YOU, refuse to understand what is clearly written. In my first two posts I clearly explained why I prefer ransack over heroic slash, and I also explained the lack of heroic slash in people's recaps is due to the slow death of SnB meta and the bleed meta replacing it.

What does changing heroic slash into a bleed dot would do? It would add even more no counterplay damage into the game that is already very unbalanced. Bleeds need a clear nerf. Heroic slash is fine as it is, it could use some cost reduction which isn't even an issue on classes like sorc or warden.

This is a ''sDK sustain sucks'' issue, more than a ''heroic slash sucks'' issue.

I understand what the tooltip says but none of those things are an actual good reason to use it. The snare is only 4 seconds now and a lot of people are running Forward Momentum which gives 8 seconds of snare immunity.

It does not deal the damage of Surprise Attack nor does it offer the Major Fracture which you would have to cast Puncture first to get so Heroic Slash, even if you could sustain it no problem, is a DPS loss and not a worthwhile option as a main spammable attack.

Minor Maim as I mentioned you get from Dizzying Swing already if you're running Two Handed and if you're running a Dual Wield bleed build you're going to focus on keeping bleeds stacked and heals debuffed so you wouldn't be including a skill like Heroic Slash in your rotation if you actually want to kill a decent player.

What does changing Heroic Slash into a bleed dot do? It allows you to apply the bleed then use Ransack -> Bash -> Reverb combo and you get increased DPS. Heroic Slash as it is now is only a DPS loss and the long snare it once had that made it popular for classes like StamDK is gone.

Lack of sustain is not why no-one is using Heroic Slash on StamDK any more.

Drakkdjinn

Whai?

Qbiken

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Heavy armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum, and you also got a strong snare out of it. That snare is now majorly nerfed and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

Dizzying Swing does not apply minor maim. I don´t know where you get that from. Taken from uesp.net:

Slam an enemy with an upward swing, dealing [2825 / 2856 / 2887 / 2918] Physical Damage, stunning them for 3.5 seconds, and knocking them back 4 meters

And minor maim + ult regen is a strong combo. Sure it´s not shimmering shield but it´s not bad.

Gnozo

S&B is still used by a lot of stam players besides stamNB cause its superior to DW or 2h (as main dps). Most of the Builds are using s&b as their main dps and 2h as buff and execute.

If you duel a 2h main user as a s&b main user you will dominate. Heroic/Ransack and Reverb are really strong and are outperforming 2h or DW by far. And on my Stamdk is still prefer heroic over Ransack. Even if i wont get major fracture. The tooltip from heroic is higher and offers more buffs/debuffs then Ransack.

And if you reverb + noxios it will mostly hit. So please dont Touch my heroic for stupid bleed meta.

Feanor

Exactly what the game needs. More high damage stuff that is easy to apply and ignores defensive mechanics.

Ragnarock41

Feanor wrote: »

Exactly what the game needs. More high damage stuff that is easy to apply and ignores defensive mechanics.

What could go wrong

Twohothardware

Qbiken wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Now that even stamDks are abandoning SnB, the bleed meta is real.

heroic slash is fine as it is though.

It's so fine noone is giving up a slot to use it.

I'll be honest, I also don't use it, but not because it is bad. But because ransack offers major fracture, and by running ransack I can drop noxious breath, which is literal garbage. low damage, bad hitbox, high cost... just..nah.

And by not running noxious I can run flames of oblivion for the crit buff or absorb magic for some reduced cost block. You see, Its not about heroic being bad, Its about other factors.

Can you give an example then where it is good? It's too much of a DPS loss and waste of Stamina to use it just for applying minor maim every 12 seconds or to get minor Heroism. Dizzying Swing applies minor maim and if you're going duel wield your focus is on dealing more damage and most run Two Handed back bar for Forward Momentum.

The reason Heroic Slash used to be somewhat popular for classes like StamDK was because back then you could use Shuffle with Heavy armor meaning you didn't need to run Two Handed for Forward Momentum, and you also got a strong snare out of it. That snare is now majorly nerfed and snares in general are much less effective with so many using Forward Momentum.

Dizzying Swing does not apply minor maim. I don´t know where you get that from. Taken from uesp.net:

Slam an enemy with an upward swing, dealing [2825 / 2856 / 2887 / 2918] Physical Damage, stunning them for 3.5 seconds, and knocking them back 4 meters

And minor maim + ult regen is a strong combo. Sure it´s not shimmering shield but it´s not bad.

Dizzying Swing used to give Minor Maim before they changed it and I had a lapse for a moment.

http://www.esohead.com/skills/38814-dizzying-swing

Twohothardware

Gnozo wrote: »

S&B is still used by a lot of stam players besides stamNB cause its superior to DW or 2h (as main dps). Most of the Builds are using s&b as their main dps and 2h as buff and execute.

If you duel a 2h main user as a s&b main user you will dominate. Heroic/Ransack and Reverb are really strong and are outperforming 2h or DW by far. And on my Stamdk is still prefer heroic over Ransack. Even if i wont get major fracture. The tooltip from heroic is higher and offers more buffs/debuffs then Ransack.

And if you reverb + noxios it will mostly hit. So please dont Touch my heroic for stupid bleed meta.

That's for dueling. Dueling is completely different from a Cyrodiil build. S&B is not outperforming 2H and DW when fighting multiple players and the only players I see ever run S&B main are Magicka. The meta right now for StamDK is even shifting away from S&B altogther and to DW front bar with 2H back.

Mojmir

S/b should have competitive morphs for DPS

pieratsos

Yes brilliant idea. The only thing we are missing is a spammable ignoring mechanics.

BohnT

pieratsos wrote: »

Yes brilliant idea. The only thing we are missing is a spammable ignoring mechanics.

Like birds did, oh boy that was fun.

1h&s doesn't need a dps buff or any buff for that matter, it's one of the most versatile skill lines and is used by:
Stamplar stamwarden, stamsorc, stamdk, magdk, magplar, magwarden on almost any build (in pvp)

As mentioned in this thread already giving 1h&s bleeds on top of the defile is just too much, yes bleeds are ridiculously strong right now but i wouldn't bet that it will stay this strong in the future as it has been mentioned during the ESO class rep meetings as being too strong (just like defiles and as you can see they got nerfed across the board).