PTS Changes in 4.1.2 as announced on ESO Live

baratron

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Rune Cage - They haven't been able to get a clean and immediate solution. People want more counterplay rather than getting stunned from nowhere. Devs are looking for a way to visually communicate the effect is coming. In the short term, the stun will be dodgeable. This has led to some interesting discussions about CC in general. Multiphase solution - devs are making immediate changes to alleviate the problem, while actively working on a better long-term solution.

Apparently ZOS don't always make changes immediately because "players are clever" and they like to see what players come up with, e.g. Incapacitating Strike was changed in 4.1.0 to only stun your enemy if your current health percentage is lower than the target’s. However, players realised they could put abilities on their bar to lower their HP and then switch weapons to be at 95% HP and land that stun every time. Also, HP bars in ESO are quite dynamic and move quickly, so it wasn't predictable whether the stun would go off or not. So in Monday's PTS, Incapacitating Strike is being changed so that only the amount of Ultimate you have is important. Now you can cast it at 70 Ultimate but need 120 for the stun. They've recoloured the icon so when you get to 120 Ultimate, it flips to the green version to let you know that using the ability will cause a stun and it's very clear when this effect will occur. Also the animation is different when you land the stun - "more of a flourish".

Rune Focus - will remain on the player, but has been increased to 20 seconds, and the cost changes have been reverted because Magicka Templars were struggling for resources.

Radiant Destruction execute percentage has been increased to make up for the fact that Light Attacks now deal more damage, and you are missing out on doing Light Attacks during the cast.

Mend Wounds was changed in 4.1.0 so that you needed it on both bars to use it. The devs thought this made it clearer when it was active. However they received a lot of feedback from players who liked to be able to weapon swap and keep it going, so this is being reverted in 4.1.2.

Vykosa set - intended for Tank players - when you taunted a target it would apply Major Maim to them, but it didn't feel like you had a lot of control when it would fire because you need to keep the taunt continously. So now the debuff will apply when you BASH the boss. This works well because Tanks have reduced cost for bashing.


Other things:
There is a fix for invisible walls in PvE areas coming on Monday! (They still need to work on Cyrodiil).

It will no longer be possible to proc your item sets while using siege weapons in Cyrodiil. Apparently this was observed with Sload's Semblance and the devs then realised it applied to all sets.


Respec 2.0
I don't believe they're changing anything in 4.1.2, but the devs said something interesting which I haven't seen highlighted in Patch Notes. Apparently it will be easier to manage the third bar that you get with Sorcerer's Overload and with Werewolf. You'll also be able to move skills around on your bars when you're dead!

NBrookus

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Vykosa set - intended for Tank players - when you taunted a target it would apply Major Maim to them, but it didn't feel like you had a lot of control when it would fire because you need to keep the taunt continously. So now the debuff will apply when you BASH the boss. This works well because Tanks have reduced cost for bashing.

Player cleverness: running Reverb Bash and applying Major Defile and Major Maim and a stun with a single skill.
(I remain skeptical this will only with with shield bash attacks until tested.)

Own

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

baratron

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

Galarthor

baratron wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

Yeah because those sloads users use sloads tactically rather than having it on you 24/7 wearing you down. There is not a whole lot this chanhes (except for stamian builds, who can afford to constantly dodge it). Healing abilities will still be applied as needed, that is depending on the current state of your HP bar, because healing when you got full HP is not that helpful. And builds relying on shields are still being f***ed by this set.

So nothing really changed about sloads only that it was nerf in such a way that it wouldnt hurt stamblades anymore. Gotta cater to the most vocal group on the forums.

As for the Rune Cage change: it basically goes in the same direction: Cater to the stamblades AKA perma dodgers. For the rest of the population nothing really changes. Well ... Rune Cage will be dropped in favor for Destructive Reach again since it basically has the same effect and opens up an additional slot on the bars. Only advantage that remains is that you can get thorugh perma-block. But those people usually won't die from a full burst rotation when they are stunned anyways, so there is very little incentive to use it anymore. The change in the meta was good while it lasted ....

I find it interesting how every grievance of stamblades gets addressed in a timely fashion and the rest of the builds and classes can wait for multiple Updates or even years.

Rmmichael95

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

The set ignores all game mechanics. What strategy am I supposed to use?

Rune Cage - They haven't been able to get a clean and immediate solution. People want more counterplay rather than getting stunned from nowhere. Devs are looking for a way to visually communicate the effect is coming. In the short term, the stun will be dodgeable. This has led to some interesting discussions about CC in general. Multiphase solution - devs are making immediate changes to alleviate the problem, while actively working on a better long-term solution.[/quote]

This sounds like an actual improvement to the problem. Right on.

Own wrote: »

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

Just use dawnbreaker then. incap has defile and increases your damage against the target. No buffs needed to that skill.

nemvar

NBrookus wrote: »

Player cleverness: running Reverb Bash and applying Major Defile and Major Maim and a stun with a single skill.

Reverb isn't a 'bash' in game terms. You still need to press the actual bash button to you do this.

Galarthor wrote: »

Well ... Rune Cage will be dropped in favor for Destructive Reach again since it basically has the same effect and opens up an additional slot on the bars.

Rune Cage is still unblockable so it will still perform better than DR in most situations as the best (only) defense to the meteor combo is block. That's why this skill was overperforming in the first place.

Aedaryl

Nothing for making pets usable for console and viable for everyone ?

---

Pets are related to :

---

• - Warden ultimate : it shouldn't take 2 slots and suffer from all buggy problem movable pets have.
  
  
• - Greater storm atronach ultimate : It's just useless since everyone just go out of range/ line of sight it, why I can't press the ultimate a second time to move it at my location like DK standard ?
  
  
• - Charged atronach: This moprh is not used at all, where is the Air atronach for stamsorcs ?
  
  
• - Twilight matriarch : The heal is delayed, which make you or your ally die when you use it because the heal will fire after the ennemy attack - Make it instant heal. An other problem is the heal will not heal your second pet when their is an ally near you, meaning if you run more than pet, he will die from residual damage at a moment, make the heal healing all your pets and 2 friendly people.
  
  
• - Twilight Tormentor : The active effect just feel useless, change it to be a true active skill and not forget skill that take 2 slots.
  
  
• - Unstable Cleanfear : The tank pet is just bad, you can't really know how he tank and so you can't make strategy with, and the second problem is the healing cost. It cost far too much when you look similar healing abilities.
  
  
• - Volatile famliar : the pet is good, he just have trouble like all mobile pets by being stuck everywhere, not move when lag is there or just not near you.
  
  
• - Shadorend monster set : You can't use pets command for targeting someone or making him passive.
  
  
• - Maw of the infernal : The fire breath just don't work, see Dracane thread for more information.
  
  
• - Others : stamina pet set, engine guardian, monster set healing pets,...

---

GENERAL PET PROBLEM THAT NEED TO BE SOLVED QUICKLY

---

1. - Console player can't use pet in PvP because they can' command them at all, the heavy attack command didn't solve the problem in PvP. If ZoS care about pets (meaning 46.05% of sorc major concern and 26.32% of warden major concern - Pets is the first Sorcerer and Warden concern in class reps).
   
   You need to give console player the same command (Y+left/right click) than PC player for controling pets.
   
   
2. - Pets are actually not viable in PvP because they are buggy :
   
   • They don't move when there is big lag.
     
   • They don't follow you when you use mobility skills (it can be for kitting/escaping or chasing) Ex : pets are "lost" when you use streak for kitting, same for the bear and warden when they use the grap an ally skill on hightly mobile ally.
     
   • They are not able to access and attack ennemy in rock/kiting landscape.
     
   • They are not able to follow you when you kite in rock/kiting landscape.
     
   • They are not able to follow you when you jump from "upstair" to "downstair". Ex : You jump from a ressource tower, an ennemy follow you, you can't fight him because pets didn't follow ; You are in a keep wall, you jump for killing ennemy on siege, pets will not follow ; You just jump from a rock, pets don't follow.
     
     THERE IS A SIMPLE SOLUTION FOR ALL THEZE BUG : Make (or a add a new one) the pet "passive" command PORT all combat pets to you. it would resolve all the "where is my pets when I need it" problems
     
3. Battle spirit pet bug : When you enter in PvP area or when you summon a pet in PvP, the max HP of the pet is increased by 5k but the pet miss the 5k HP, you need to heal them for being at full HP and healing pets is something hard with the "smart target" system.
   

When ZoS will make pets viable and usable for everyone ? When ZoS will make some of bad pets/useless one actually worth slotting ?

Merlin13KAGL

baratron wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

No, changing the set to have greater effect the higher your armor class would make it seem less daft.

Then it would semi-serve its original purpose, having greater effect on the HA users it is supposedly aimed at, having lesser effect on the MA and LA users it wrecks.

ezio45

To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

DOES ANYONE ELSE SEE WHY THIS IS A PROBLEM

Merlin13KAGL

@ezio45 did you read comment #4?

Galarthor

nemvar wrote: »

Rune Cage is still unblockable so it will still perform better than DR in most situations as the best (only) defense to the meteor combo is block. That's why this skill was overperforming in the first place.

True, but if you see the meteor coming down you simply dodge instead of blocking.

So what does that mean?

Scenario 1:
You dodge to evade the Rune Cage but get hit by the meteor right afterwards. So you pretty much take the same damage as in live, save for the 1.5k to 2k rune cage damage and are CC'ed by the meteor. So nothing really changed here.
So why make fighting perma dodgers for non-meteor users harder? Why change it Rune Cage at all, if the effect is the same? And why should a sorc run Rune Cage in such a scenario? The enemy will dodge anyways when they see the meteor telegraph. And the Meteor will stun the target. So you are better off using Destructive Reach which allows you to increase your DPS and to stun the target more frequently and with less delay.

Scenario 2:
You dodge to evade the Rune Cage and manage to get block up in time to avoid the meteor damage and stun. If that is possible, then there is no reason for sorcs not to run destructive reach. It allows for higher DPS b/c it damage is far higher than that of Rune Cage and the stun is pretty much the same as on the meteor. Except that you can spm it every 5 sec and at far lower cost. At the same time the sorc opens up a slot on it's ability bars (for example for Elemental Drain, increasing the sorcs DPS and Sustain). Rune Cage can also not prevent the block after the dodge as dodge immunity is greater than the dodge animation and it is already a close call on live timing Rune Cage and Meteor to hit at the same time. So why should a sorc choose Rune Cage over Destructive Reach?

The only time it is superior is in fights against perma blockers. But those guys are usually also high on Stamina and can dodge it if they need to.

And in any scenario the improved visualization will make it easier to dodge the skill. So you might as well use the red flamy wheel. At least the payoff is greater if it hits. And you can use it to supress your enemy. Spamming Rune Cage in the hopes that it hits is not really beneficial as the damage is far too low. Destructive Reach on the other hand can force your opponent to dodge multiple times draining their stamina and inflict decent damage when it finally hits - which is not true for Rune Cage.

This change was not to fix some general issue with Rune Cage. You can see that by the ill-conceived design of the change but rather to cater to the perma dodging NBs hating that they don't have an easy time with sorcs anymore. If it truely was a problem that needed fixing then they should have fixed it regardless of what defensive mechanism it levers out, not just for their stamblade pets.

Galarthor

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

No, changing the set to have greater effect the higher your armor class would make it seem less daft.

Then it would semi-serve its original purpose, having greater effect on the HA users it is supposedly aimed at, having lesser effect on the MA and LA users it wrecks.
[/quote]

Yeah his reasoning here is impeccable ...

A set that is meant to hurt Heavy Armor Tanks (usually high on HP and with decent heals) that deals more damage (in terms of % of max HP) to Light and Medium Armor users.

And why is a set dealing unavoidable 1000 DPS (or 2.5% to 3.5% of max HP on its intended 30k to 40k HP targets) considered OP while a set dealing unavoidable 3500 DPS (or 15% to 17.5% of max HP on its intended 20k to 23k HP targets) is considered to be balanced? (I am referring to Shieldbreaker).

That's a time-to-kill of roughly 6 seconds against a time-to-kill 30 to 40 seconds.

Really great design there!!! The entire set screams "well-designed and -balanced set". They porbably ran out of options what set bonuses to put on the new sets since there are so many sets already and so decided to strap on some Oblivion damage since it is the rarest form of (equipment-based) damage so far, without considering how it fits into the larget picture.

Morgul667

NIce summary thanks

Rianai

They should really stop trying to "fix" op builds with proc sets, because it simply doesn't work. Sloads is a prime example. Supposed to counter tanks, yet tanky builds could handle it the best and also benefit the most from wearing it. Aside from this unkillable tanks haven't been an issue in noCP anyway, yet that's where those procs shine the most.

Shows how much out of touch they are with PvP.

Lord_Eomer

Vykosa set - intended for Tank players - when you taunted a target it would apply Major Maim to them, but it didn't feel like you had a lot of control when it would fire because you need to keep the taunt continously. So now the debuff will apply when you BASH the boss. This works well because Tanks have reduced cost for bashing.

This is another waste set due to higher cooldown and very short effect duratiob

mr_wazzabi

Galarthor wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

Yeah because those sloads users use sloads tactically rather than having it on you 24/7 wearing you down. There is not a whole lot this chanhes (except for stamian builds, who can afford to constantly dodge it). Healing abilities will still be applied as needed, that is depending on the current state of your HP bar, because healing when you got full HP is not that helpful. And builds relying on shields are still being f***ed by this set.

So nothing really changed about sloads only that it was nerf in such a way that it wouldnt hurt stamblades anymore. Gotta cater to the most vocal group on the forums.

As for the Rune Cage change: it basically goes in the same direction: Cater to the stamblades AKA perma dodgers. For the rest of the population nothing really changes. Well ... Rune Cage will be dropped in favor for Destructive Reach again since it basically has the same effect and opens up an additional slot on the bars. Only advantage that remains is that you can get thorugh perma-block. But those people usually won't die from a full burst rotation when they are stunned anyways, so there is very little incentive to use it anymore. The change in the meta was good while it lasted ....

I find it interesting how every grievance of stamblades gets addressed in a timely fashion and the rest of the builds and classes can wait for multiple Updates or even years.

Rune cage was broken. Pure and simple. It needed a huge change to keep sorcs from dominating battlegrounds. On live, battlegrounds is easymode for sorcs because of rune cage. The team with the most magsorcs always wins in my experience.

Strider__Roshin

Own wrote: »

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

Although I don't rely on the stun (fear prior to Incap) I do think 100 is more appropriate.

Strider__Roshin

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

Yeah because those sloads users use sloads tactically rather than having it on you 24/7 wearing you down. There is not a whole lot this chanhes (except for stamian builds, who can afford to constantly dodge it). Healing abilities will still be applied as needed, that is depending on the current state of your HP bar, because healing when you got full HP is not that helpful. And builds relying on shields are still being f***ed by this set.

So nothing really changed about sloads only that it was nerf in such a way that it wouldnt hurt stamblades anymore. Gotta cater to the most vocal group on the forums.

As for the Rune Cage change: it basically goes in the same direction: Cater to the stamblades AKA perma dodgers. For the rest of the population nothing really changes. Well ... Rune Cage will be dropped in favor for Destructive Reach again since it basically has the same effect and opens up an additional slot on the bars. Only advantage that remains is that you can get thorugh perma-block. But those people usually won't die from a full burst rotation when they are stunned anyways, so there is very little incentive to use it anymore. The change in the meta was good while it lasted ....

I find it interesting how every grievance of stamblades gets addressed in a timely fashion and the rest of the builds and classes can wait for multiple Updates or even years.

Rune cage was broken. Pure and simple. It needed a huge change to keep sorcs from dominating battlegrounds. On live, battlegrounds is easymode for sorcs because of rune cage. The team with the most magsorcs always wins in my experience.

It's actually comical how true that statement is lol. I'll look at group composition before the match starts and predict who will win or who the strongest competition will be based on the amount of magsorcs alone.

mr_wazzabi

Daus wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

baratron wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

Thanks for the summary.

baratron wrote: »

Changes announced by Eric Wrobel, Lead Combat Designer, on yesterday's ESO Live (2018-07-20, watch it here)

Sload's Semblance was designed to be useful against Heavy Armor Tank builds who are hard to kill, hence it does Oblivion damage which cuts through Heavy Armor and shielding. However it's unambiguously better against all armor types. So the number of ticks has been reduced. To combat the situation where people get lots of Sload's stacks at once, there is now a visual cue that the projectile is starting so you can roll-dodge the effect or start pre-casting heals or damage shields. This cue looks like a sload's attack, and "gives you a lot of strategic options".

Precasting shields that don't protect against oblivion damage as a strategic option?

Ahh... okay, if you go to the video at 00:50:14 or so, Wrobel mentions "casting shields because you know they're going to hit you with a lot of other attacks". I guess the second half of that sentence makes it seem less daft.

Yeah because those sloads users use sloads tactically rather than having it on you 24/7 wearing you down. There is not a whole lot this chanhes (except for stamian builds, who can afford to constantly dodge it). Healing abilities will still be applied as needed, that is depending on the current state of your HP bar, because healing when you got full HP is not that helpful. And builds relying on shields are still being f***ed by this set.

So nothing really changed about sloads only that it was nerf in such a way that it wouldnt hurt stamblades anymore. Gotta cater to the most vocal group on the forums.

As for the Rune Cage change: it basically goes in the same direction: Cater to the stamblades AKA perma dodgers. For the rest of the population nothing really changes. Well ... Rune Cage will be dropped in favor for Destructive Reach again since it basically has the same effect and opens up an additional slot on the bars. Only advantage that remains is that you can get thorugh perma-block. But those people usually won't die from a full burst rotation when they are stunned anyways, so there is very little incentive to use it anymore. The change in the meta was good while it lasted ....

I find it interesting how every grievance of stamblades gets addressed in a timely fashion and the rest of the builds and classes can wait for multiple Updates or even years.

Rune cage was broken. Pure and simple. It needed a huge change to keep sorcs from dominating battlegrounds. On live, battlegrounds is easymode for sorcs because of rune cage. The team with the most magsorcs always wins in my experience.

It's actually comical how true that statement is lol. I'll look at group composition before the match starts and predict who will win or who the strongest competition will be based on the amount of magsorcs alone.

Yup lol. Two nights in a row i ran into a team of 4 magsorcs. You already know who won.

Hutch679

Those amazing changes to mag warden they mentioned though! Wow!

KingJ

Daus wrote: »

Own wrote: »

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

Although I don't rely on the stun (fear prior to Incap) I do think 100 is more appropriate.

I say 100 would he better but people like you said we have multiple cc options so its not a big deal.Fear,SA from stealth and even heavy attacks after proccing unbalance.

ADarklore

It just amazes me people complaining about the reversal of the big nerf to Incap. People seem to think ZOS was trying to buff it or something, as they keep saying, "DB is still better"... again, the changes to Incap wasn't meant to be a buff, it was a nerf to make it even worse, so the fact that they now made it 'not so worse' should be seen as a positive. People will continue to use DB, again, the changes WERE NOT intended to make it better or a sudden option to DB, it was meant to be a nerf. Now, the only nerf is the increased cost to utilize the stun.

TheMystid

"Players are clever"?
Seems like they do this as their 3rd or 4th job. Every patch just 'Do things' to keep us talking.
I mean, putting my stamblade intentionally to less than 100% hp was the first thing I thought of reading patch notes. And I don't even play anymore this game. Yet they need a couple of weeks to realize it.

LadyNalcarya

Number of sload ticks means nothing as long as it stacks. Everyone and their dog is wearing it atm, it completely ruins build diversity.
And if they want to make it a projectile, then there should be a cooldown and the projectile should have a clear telegraph, like Velidreth's or Selene's.

Galarthor

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Rune cage was broken. Pure and simple. It needed a huge change to keep sorcs from dominating battlegrounds. On live, battlegrounds is easymode for sorcs because of rune cage. The team with the most magsorcs always wins in my experience.

Regardless of whether this is true or not, the way it was "fixed" still speaks volumes. And the pace at which stamblade grievances are addressed too. Their insta-kill from stealth dominance was not addressed for ages despite pretty much everybody (except for stamblades ofc) complained about it. The time-to-kill back then was even shorter than now if you manage to kill somebody with a single curse-meteor--cage-frag rotation. And you didn't even get a heads-up like you do from a meteor.

And why only solve the issue for perma dodgers / stamina builds? Wouldn't it have made far more sense to somehow limit meteor / ulti damage you take? That way every single build would have profited. But no. It was again made to fit the stamblades.

Honestly, for most fights this change probably doesn't matter (see above). At least in a CP enviornment good players usually don't die to this rotation. For example they hold back their CC when they think the sorc is about to drop a meteor and as soon as it is telegraphed they stun the sorc, preventing the Rune Cage and then blockhe meteor. The only thing that really changes is that the perma-dodgers can now have a field day with sorcs again ... as I said, catering to stamblades again.

Galarthor

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Number of sload ticks means nothing as long as it stacks. Everyone and their dog is wearing it atm, it completely ruins build diversity.
And if they want to make it a projectile, then there should be a cooldown and the projectile should have a clear telegraph, like Velidreth's or Selene's.

I hate sloads as much as you do ... in fact all oblivion damage. But limiting the stacking isn't the issue. You can stack any attack on any given target with multiple players. So there is no reason Sloads should be different. The only reason you feel that way is b/c if you are not a magSorc or magNB you probably got enough heal to easily outheal a single sloads dot on you. But if there are more sload DoTs on you then your healing no longer suffices and you feel the damage (welcome to the world of magSorcs :P). But that's the fact for any damage regardless of it's source. If multiple people attack you, you feel it. Unless you are a cancerous tank that can face tank entire raids

KingJ

Galarthor wrote: »

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Rune cage was broken. Pure and simple. It needed a huge change to keep sorcs from dominating battlegrounds. On live, battlegrounds is easymode for sorcs because of rune cage. The team with the most magsorcs always wins in my experience.

Regardless of whether this is true or not, the way it was "fixed" still speaks volumes. And the pace at which stamblade grievances are addressed too. Their insta-kill from stealth dominance was not addressed for ages despite pretty much everybody (except for stamblades ofc) complained about it. The time-to-kill back then was even shorter than now if you manage to kill somebody with a single curse-meteor--cage-frag rotation. And you didn't even get a heads-up like you do from a meteor.

And why only solve the issue for perma dodgers / stamina builds? Wouldn't it have made far more sense to somehow limit meteor / ulti damage you take? That way every single build would have profited. But no. It was again made to fit the stamblades.

Honestly, for most fights this change probably doesn't matter (see above). At least in a CP enviornment good players usually don't die to this rotation. For example they hold back their CC when they think the sorc is about to drop a meteor and as soon as it is telegraphed they stun the sorc, preventing the Rune Cage and then blockhe meteor. The only thing that really changes is that the perma-dodgers can now have a field day with sorcs again ... as I said, catering to stamblades again.

Lmao bruh you really hate Nb its hilarious.

Strider__Roshin

KingJ wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Own wrote: »

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

Although I don't rely on the stun (fear prior to Incap) I do think 100 is more appropriate.

I say 100 would he better but people like you said we have multiple cc options so its not a big deal.Fear,SA from stealth and even heavy attacks after proccing unbalance.

This is true, but 120 is pretty eye rolling truthfully. I like the idea, and I know we have other options but Incap isn't worth 120 ult. Might as well use DBoS at that point.

KingJ

Daus wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Own wrote: »

Thanks for the post. The incap stun needs to be 100ish. 120 is AoE stun dawnbreaker level. @ZOS_GinaBruno

I wonder if they are making overload have a barswap type cooldown instead of counting as a 1 second skill coldown.

Although I don't rely on the stun (fear prior to Incap) I do think 100 is more appropriate.

I say 100 would he better but people like you said we have multiple cc options so its not a big deal.Fear,SA from stealth and even heavy attacks after proccing unbalance.

This is true, but 120 is pretty eye rolling truthfully. I like the idea, and I know we have other options but Incap isn't worth 120 ult. Might as well use DBoS at that point.

If they increase the general cost of incap to 120 DBOS would be better 100% agree with you.With just the stun being 120 while its not preferable it can be worked around.Making it 100 would be great middle ground for all parties.

Iki

"Rune Cage - They haven't been able to get a clean and immediate solution."
Heres that clean solution for you: Put stun & knockdown back to crystal fragments, then make defensive rune base-ability with one morph dealing same dmg rune cage deals now and other morph could apply minor maim to attacker instead of dealing dmg.
This way sorcererers offensive-cc would have counter-play and require bit more thinking and awareness from sorc, while defensive rune would be lifesaving defensive-cc with 2 intresting morph-choises, choice between dealing dmg or increase survivability.