Templars are horrible..

DanteYoda

I have two Templars i'm attempting to level up.. And honestly its just a horrible class, the skills are weak and pointless the defense at low levels is horrendous.. I try for hours to play these things and just die everytime to things my nightblades, wardens and Sorcerers murder in seconds...

What gives seriously why are templars so horrible to level up and does anyone have a low level build that works as good dps.. (not healer, or tank)

My magplar is lv 29

Mt stamplar is lv 31..

Its like watching grass grow to level these weak things.. maybe i should delete these things..

Elsterchen

Hmmm, I feel hurt. Templars are not horrible, we actually make up a very nice community.

Maybe you like to check in at some point?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416459/class-rep-templar-feedback-thread#latest

As for design choices, made by devs, for templar... there are some pretty evil ones, agreed.

DanteYoda

I don't mean the players although i don't see many in game i meant the class in general lol

Gulkrim-mur

DanteYoda wrote: »

I have two Templars i'm attempting to level up.. And honestly its just a horrible class, the skills are weak and pointless the defense at low levels is horrendous.. I try for hours to play these things and just die everytime to things my nightblades, wardens and Sorcerers murder in seconds...

What gives seriously why are templars so horrible to level up and does anyone have a low level build that works as good dps.. (not healer, or tank)

My magplar is lv 29

Mt stamplar is lv 31..

Its like watching grass grow to level these weak things.. maybe i should delete these things..

Wooooooow hate to say it but it's you lol. Templars are godmode especially PvP. Pve I guess I wouldn't know.

Gnortranermara

Templars have:

• the worst mobility (no Major Expedition, Minor Expedition locked behind expensive heal, and self-snaring channels)
• the worst CC options (no unblockable stun, no root, non-CC abilities that stupidly give the target CC immunity)
• the worst resource sustain (getting worse if the Rune Focus change makes it out of the PTS)
• the worst ultimates (our options are so bad that Magplars slot Dawnbreaker)
• the second-worst DPS (second only to the Warden, who has none of the above problems)

And the one thing we're supposed to be good at, healing, is a constant target for senseless nerfs:

• We no longer have class access to Major Mending.
• Breath of Life secondary heal has been trashed. Sorc Twilight is now a better group burst heal.
• Healing Ritual cost is borderline malicious for such a pathetically short range.
• Repentance is worthless in boss fights and selfish in group content.
• Cleansing Ritual cost was increased for PvP reasons with no damage/healing buff to compensate PvE players.

It's crystal clear to anyone with two spare neurons to rub together that the combat dev team has an extreme bias against the Templar. Worst of all, this is all very easy to fix and much of it could be done in only a few hours of work from a competent developer armed with a simple action plan:

• Radial Sweep: +25% buff to the DOT component (and resist the urge to nerf us with a cost increase)
• Radiant Ward: make this morph scale with Max Magicka and grant Major Expedition
• Balanced Warrior: change this to 2/4% more damage done and less damage taken
• Sun Fire: add 1 second to the base duration, change the buff from Major Prophecy to Minor Force
• Breath of Life: make it hit self + 2 allies, healing all targets for 66% of the amount that Honor the Dead gives
• Cleansing Ritual: increase the damage and healing values by 15%
• Sacred Ground: Add Major Sorcery to the effects of the passive

The changes above would add approximately 3-6k DPS to a typical Magplar (depending on skill setup), gently bumping them closer to other classes. It would also let us get our buffs without potions, so we could choose to use different potions (like every other class already gets to do).

There are some other much-needed fixes, but they would legitimately take a bit more time (unlike those above, which could be completed in an afternoon):

• Aurora Javelin: pull instead of knockback
• Spear Shards: consolidate both current morphs into one for DPS and healers. On the other, replace the DOT with an AOE root
• Burning Light: change to a per-target cooldown, double the cooldown duration to compensate
• Hasty Prayer: make this morph an AOE HOT aura instead of a burst and reduce the cost. Keep the speed buff
• Repentance: go back to giving all allies the stamina

Drdeath20

Yeah i hate that i invested all this time playing and getting achievements on a templar. Templars are really bad. If my achievements carried over i would play more on my mag sorc or magblade.

Drdeath20

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have:

• the worst mobility (no Major Expedition, Minor Expedition locked behind expensive heal, and self-snaring channels)
• the worst CC options (no unblockable stun, no root, non-CC abilities that stupidly give the target CC immunity)
• the worst resource sustain (getting worse if the Rune Focus change makes it out of the PTS)
• the worst ultimates (our options are so bad that Magplars slot Dawnbreaker)
• the second-worst DPS (second only to the Warden, who has none of the above problems)

And the one thing we're supposed to be good at, healing, is a constant target for senseless nerfs:

• We no longer have class access to Major Mending.
• Breath of Life secondary heal has been trashed. Sorc Twilight is now a better group burst heal.
• Healing Ritual cost is borderline malicious for such a pathetically short range.
• Repentance is worthless in boss fights and selfish in group content.
• Cleansing Ritual cost was increased for PvP reasons with no damage/healing buff to compensate PvE players.

It's crystal clear to anyone with two spare neurons to rub together that the combat dev team has an extreme bias against the Templar. Worst of all, this is all very easy to fix and much of it could be done in only a few hours of work from a competent developer armed with a simple action plan:

• Radial Sweep: +25% buff to the DOT component (and resist the urge to nerf us with a cost increase)
• Radiant Ward: make this morph scale with Max Magicka and grant Major Expedition
• Balanced Warrior: change this to 2/4% more damage done and less damage taken
• Sun Fire: add 1 second to the base duration, change the buff from Major Prophecy to Minor Force
• Breath of Life: make it hit self + 2 allies, healing all targets for 66% of the amount that Honor the Dead gives
• Cleansing Ritual: increase the damage and healing values by 15%
• Sacred Ground: Add Major Sorcery to the effects of the passive

The changes above would add approximately 3-6k DPS to a typical Magplar (depending on skill setup), gently bumping them closer to other classes. It would also let us get our buffs without potions, so we could choose to use different potions (like every other class already gets to do).

There are some other much-needed fixes, but they would legitimately take a bit more time (unlike those above, which could be completed in an afternoon):

• Aurora Javelin: pull instead of knockback
• Spear Shards: consolidate both current morphs into one for DPS and healers. On the other, replace the DOT with an AOE root
• Burning Light: change to a per-target cooldown, double the cooldown duration to compensate
• Hasty Prayer: make this morph an AOE HOT aura instead of a burst and reduce the cost. Keep the speed buff
• Repentance: go back to giving all allies the stamina

Soo much of this! I cant wait for the day to come back around where i actually enjoy slotting a templar skill.

The passive enduring rays does not make nova, eclipse or sun fire any better than a comparble skill. Meteor does more damage than nova, lasts longer, is cheaper and mildy helps boost max magicka and recovery. Every class has their own class DoT which does not require investing 2 skill points into a passive to help their duration or damage done become average. Increasing the duration of total dark is a good thing but that skill is either feast or famine. I dont find it preferable to Increase the duration of unstable core. This passive needs to be changed. The 2 second duration needs to just be added to the skills/ultimates and that passive needs to be replaced. My prefernece is for every dawns wrath ability slotted, max magicka increased by 4% but i guess it would be dealers choice.

Drdeath20

Nightblades have dark veil which is somewhat similar to enduring rays but it affects every shadow ability and the skills that are not instant are either 10 second base duration or 15 second base duration.

Most templar abilities and passives are at the short end of the stick

maxjapank

DanteYoda wrote: »

I have two Templars i'm attempting to level up.. And honestly its just a horrible class, the skills are weak and pointless the defense at low levels is horrendous.. I try for hours to play these things and just die everytime to things my nightblades, wardens and Sorcerers murder in seconds...

What gives seriously why are templars so horrible to level up and does anyone have a low level build that works as good dps.. (not healer, or tank)

My magplar is lv 29

Mt stamplar is lv 31..

Its like watching grass grow to level these weak things.. maybe i should delete these things..

Dante, please don’t listen to the negativity of the previous posters. I haven’t had time to write, sorry. But I’ll message you soon and give you some pointers. Templars are quite strong and fun to play, especially in pvp if that’s your thing.

Pops_ND_Irish

hehe

DanteYoda

maxjapank wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I have two Templars i'm attempting to level up.. And honestly its just a horrible class, the skills are weak and pointless the defense at low levels is horrendous.. I try for hours to play these things and just die everytime to things my nightblades, wardens and Sorcerers murder in seconds...

What gives seriously why are templars so horrible to level up and does anyone have a low level build that works as good dps.. (not healer, or tank)

My magplar is lv 29

Mt stamplar is lv 31..

Its like watching grass grow to level these weak things.. maybe i should delete these things..

Dante, please don’t listen to the negativity of the previous posters. I haven’t had time to write, sorry. But I’ll message you soon and give you some pointers. Templars are quite strong and fun to play, especially in pvp if that’s your thing.

It seems i'm not the only one that agrees though.. That said i will wait on templars for now because its very poor to play at low levels..

PhantomOcelot

"Templars are horrible".DC zerg that just died to my magplar would strongly disagree with this statement.

DanteYoda

PhantomOcelot wrote: »

"Templars are horrible".DC zerg that just died to my magplar would strongly disagree with this statement.

Great PvP, which is not what i asked for.. I'd like a proficient DPS only templar build for pve.. to level up.

Preferably Magplar

Koolio

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Templars have:

• the worst mobility (no Major Expedition, Minor Expedition locked behind expensive heal, and self-snaring channels)
• the worst CC options (no unblockable stun, no root, non-CC abilities that stupidly give the target CC immunity)
• the worst resource sustain (getting worse if the Rune Focus change makes it out of the PTS)
• the worst ultimates (our options are so bad that Magplars slot Dawnbreaker)
• the second-worst DPS (second only to the Warden, who has none of the above problems)

And the one thing we're supposed to be good at, healing, is a constant target for senseless nerfs:

• We no longer have class access to Major Mending.
• Breath of Life secondary heal has been trashed. Sorc Twilight is now a better group burst heal.
• Healing Ritual cost is borderline malicious for such a pathetically short range.
• Repentance is worthless in boss fights and selfish in group content.
• Cleansing Ritual cost was increased for PvP reasons with no damage/healing buff to compensate PvE players.

It's crystal clear to anyone with two spare neurons to rub together that the combat dev team has an extreme bias against the Templar. Worst of all, this is all very easy to fix and much of it could be done in only a few hours of work from a competent developer armed with a simple action plan:

• Radial Sweep: +25% buff to the DOT component (and resist the urge to nerf us with a cost increase)
• Radiant Ward: make this morph scale with Max Magicka and grant Major Expedition
• Balanced Warrior: change this to 2/4% more damage done and less damage taken
• Sun Fire: add 1 second to the base duration, change the buff from Major Prophecy to Minor Force
• Breath of Life: make it hit self + 2 allies, healing all targets for 66% of the amount that Honor the Dead gives
• Cleansing Ritual: increase the damage and healing values by 15%
• Sacred Ground: Add Major Sorcery to the effects of the passive

The changes above would add approximately 3-6k DPS to a typical Magplar (depending on skill setup), gently bumping them closer to other classes. It would also let us get our buffs without potions, so we could choose to use different potions (like every other class already gets to do).

There are some other much-needed fixes, but they would legitimately take a bit more time (unlike those above, which could be completed in an afternoon):

• Aurora Javelin: pull instead of knockback
• Spear Shards: consolidate both current morphs into one for DPS and healers. On the other, replace the DOT with an AOE root
• Burning Light: change to a per-target cooldown, double the cooldown duration to compensate
• Hasty Prayer: make this morph an AOE HOT aura instead of a burst and reduce the cost. Keep the speed buff
• Repentance: go back to giving all allies the stamina

Most of this is pretty on point.

I like the crit bonus from reflective light. I can ignore having to put inner light on the bar if I want to go with Spell Damage build

Gnortranermara

Koolio wrote: »

I like the crit bonus from reflective light. I can ignore having to put inner light on the bar if I want to go with Spell Damage build

Minor Force is a comparable buff that gives +10% to your crit damage. You would lose very little (if any) DPS by swapping them. Meanwhile, those who do slot Inner Light (the majority) would no longer suffer from a redundant and useless buff. All things considered, it's a fair trade.

Drakkdjinn

Try and kill mine - I dare ya.

technohic

In overland PVE should just spam magicka sweeps and be good. Really shouldn’t see the shortcomings outside of end game sustain and escape tools, and poor CC in Pve or pvp. Even then, you can make it work; it’s just going to be harder.

If you try to compare either to NB or sorc; it’s not a fair comparison. Question really might be if Templar is under performing (I think so in at least it’s not special or exciting l) or are those 2 over performing.

DanteYoda

technohic wrote: »

In overland PVE should just spam magicka sweeps and be good. Really shouldn’t see the shortcomings outside of end game sustain and escape tools, and poor CC in Pve or pvp. Even then, you can make it work; it’s just going to be harder.

If you try to compare either to NB or sorc; it’s not a fair comparison. Question really might be if Templar is under performing (I think so in at least it’s not special or exciting l) or are those 2 over performing.

Its the worst class in the game.. even warden performs better in pve than templar..

maxjapank

DanteYoda wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

In overland PVE should just spam magicka sweeps and be good. Really shouldn’t see the shortcomings outside of end game sustain and escape tools, and poor CC in Pve or pvp. Even then, you can make it work; it’s just going to be harder.

If you try to compare either to NB or sorc; it’s not a fair comparison. Question really might be if Templar is under performing (I think so in at least it’s not special or exciting l) or are those 2 over performing.

Its the worst class in the game.. even warden performs better in pve than templar..

Then you are playing the class wrong. At least as a Magplar, between Puncturing sweeps, Purifying light, and a Total Dark, you should have absolutely no trouble killing things. And you should definitely not be dying. Perhaps playing a Templar isn’t for you.

Tilleroeshi

Whoa, if anything Templars lose their gusto at max level and end game content, but are still powerful nonetheless. I’d suggest to spam Sweeps all day long for easy winning - it damages AoE and heals.

Asardes

You can't judge a class before level 50, w/o all passives unlocked, skills morphed, proper gear and CP allocation etc. I have leveled both Magicka and Stamina Templar to 50 and the former is what I consider a fully developed character. I wouldn't consider any of them weak.

fgulerneb18_ESO1

Use your templar as healer then. They do great healing

Bam_Bam

maxjapank wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I have two Templars i'm attempting to level up.. And honestly its just a horrible class, the skills are weak and pointless the defense at low levels is horrendous.. I try for hours to play these things and just die everytime to things my nightblades, wardens and Sorcerers murder in seconds...

What gives seriously why are templars so horrible to level up and does anyone have a low level build that works as good dps.. (not healer, or tank)

My magplar is lv 29

Mt stamplar is lv 31..

Its like watching grass grow to level these weak things.. maybe i should delete these things..

Dante, please don’t listen to the negativity of the previous posters. I haven’t had time to write, sorry. But I’ll message you soon and give you some pointers. Templars are quite strong and fun to play, especially in pvp if that’s your thing.

Agreed. My magplar is a LOT of fun to play in PvP - very strong both ranged and melee and has next level healing. I also have a stamplar but I'm still learning to play this one. Still, initial thoughts are he'll be very stronk once i'm familiar with the playstyle.

jaws343

Templars are the easiest class to level up imo. Just make sure you always have jabs slotted and spam it. For a magplar it will heal you and for a stamplar once you unlock Repentance, keep it slotted to keep sustain and healing as you kill things.

Also, templars can be extremely powerful. I am currently leveling a stamplar using mismatched dropped overland heavy armor gear. I jumped into a BG deathmode match last night at level 40. My stamina was around 23K and health at like 27K with only around 1500 weapon damage. I went 20-5 and only started dying after I had 18 kills because both of the other teams would focus everything on my at that point. And the only offensive skills I used were biting jabs, Power of the Light and light and heavy attacks.

So yeah, templars are powerful once you learn how to play them.

CivilDisobedienceVII

Templar used to be pretty great for healing at least. Since I started playing two years ago, what ZOS has done to them is shameful. I personally believe they were nerfed specifically to make the wardens better morrowind update and I'm sure that was known at least 1 - 2 years in advance that they were doing that. But even before then, except for incessant bitching RE PVP, they were never considered OP by any stretch. I think a lot of the nerfs for classes are an attempt to balance for CP.

technohic

Templar had been nerfed to hell before Morrowind really. That was just one more huge blow killing blazing shield finally to where even niche builds were gone. And they also were on a warpath on Templars due to Malubeth And reactive armor were in their hay day. They nerfed the sets and Templar both. It was quite a ***.

Gnortranermara

Leave it to the PvP trolls to come thoughtlessly dump on a clearly PvE thread. They are only here to be contrarian, like toddlers stubbornly insisting "nuh-uh!" to every adult point being made. The facts about the sorry state of Templars in PvE are indisputable. They are not "powerful" relative to other classes. The PvE DPS gap is huge, and only the Warden falls below us in numbers.

DanteYoda

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Leave it to the PvP trolls to come thoughtlessly dump on a clearly PvE thread. They are only here to be contrarian, like toddlers stubbornly insisting "nuh-uh!" to every adult point being made. The facts about the sorry state of Templars in PvE are indisputable. They are not "powerful" relative to other classes. The PvE DPS gap is huge, and only the Warden falls below us in numbers.

I feel this too honestly but even warden is playable.. As a magplar jabs imo are useless why if i'm using ranged weapons would i want a attack that they must be on me to use plus the jabs are horrible... They fix you to the spot while AI are jumping over you...

And tbh jabs is terribly weak damage wise.. what about all the other skills, everyone brings up jabs and nothing else.. Three sets of skills and only jabs gets talked about, if that not a hint at a destroyed class i'm not sure what is..

Gnortranermara

Templars are in a bad place, but it's not because of Puncturing Sweeps. Puncturing Sweeps is a good ability with several balancing factors built into it.

Pros:

• It's one of the few AOE spammables in the game.
• It's good damage on the first target, and fair damage on others in the area.
• It heals the caster.

Cons:

• It requires melee range.
• The channel slows the caster's movement speed, leaving us somewhat vulnerable.
• It is directional and cannot be aimed behind us if rooted.
• Because it's a channel, animation cancelling nullfies any incomplete damage even though we've already paid full price in Magicka. By contrast, instant-cast abilities still do full damage if animation cancelled.
• The channel time slightly increases the gap between light attack weaves.

I honestly believe the dev's obvious bias against Templars originates in this ability. It's one of the few sorta-good things we have going for us. Our other class abilities (and passives) are weaker than they should be, and I think it's because we have an AOE spammable and they're punishing us for it. But the balancing factors are already built into the ability itself and shouldn't be influencing their decisions about our other abilities.

If you want to get the most out of the ability while leveling, my advice is put it on a lightning staff, drop blockade and another DOT of your choice first (Ritual of Retribution or Reflective Light are good), then jab.

DanteYoda

Thanks anyway to all i've made a dragon knight instead good luck with templars.. I'll try them again when and if Zos ever decides the hate for them is over..

Drdeath20

Ahh the pvp templar... wear all heavy...block cast....wear multiple proc sets.

Sounds very class specific lol