What Do Healers Get Outta BG's?

Blaqueflame

Ok I preface this by saying I took a looong break from ESO and came back and found Battle Grounds (Love!) Imma a healer, its what I do - and I love small group pvp - so yay! However, having played hard for a few weeks and gradually regaining my feet - I have to say, looking at current achievements/rewards/titles and general feel special acknowledgement, Battle Grounds seem incredibly light on rewarding healer play AND overall defensive play.

Firstly there is the end of game score card - tells you how many kills you got, how many times you died, and how many kill assists you got. Dedicated healers look bad on these score cards because 1) we'll have very few, if any, kills 2) we're likely to have a high percentage of deaths, unless playing with a tight team and 3) we'll likely have few kill assists ... cuz we too busy healing our team. This is demoralizing cuz it makes it look like you're sitting picking your nose, and getting ganked, rather than performing 100's of k's worth of life saving heals that keep our deeps up to get those kills and assists.

If you look at achievements - there is a total of 31 and here's my reckoning on them:

4/31 - Healer based - we still require a solid team that plays tightly together and takes advantage of heals (versus ramboing in or running around like testosterone riddled porkchops)
1/31 - (Steady Centurion) Healer gets by default because its about taking dmg, and hey, that's what we do.
10/31 - Kill count based - healers entirely disadvantaged
3/31 - Rewarding Defensive play (better than no defensive play acknowledgement but ... healers are still disadvantaged as they are still kill count based rather than say time based)
11/31 - Rewarding group play -- Healers are indirectly rewarded if they play with a tight team, but unlikely to gain any advantages if they don't.
1/31 - Motif buying achievement -- Who cares

Achievements, titles, snazzy dye, and in general feeling like a valued member of a team, is not well supported by the game.

My view is to enjoy/reap any reward from BG as a healer, you MUST play with an organized 4 man team. I queue solo quite often, and occasionally get a good group but mostly its pretty hit or miss. A friend points out that BG's are so low on healers queuing up that often grps don't expect heals and so don't coordinate their play to receive them (so its kinda like throw yourself into the fray get a kill or two, die like dog, rez, rinse, repeat - not exactly a tactical or thinking way to play/win).

Heals help win wars. We purge/cleanse/ heal, replenish your resources, lend our ulti's - and throw out deeps when we can. We keep others alive to get their achievements, I think we should get considerably more achievements/recognition. While ZOS is at it, I don't think it would hurt to reward strategic, tactical/defensive game play either.

Thoughts?

Drakkdjinn

Why the Salty tears of your enemies that cannot kill your teammates, of course.

Blaqueflame

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Why the Salty tears of your enemies that cannot kill your teammates, of course.

lol heyyyy I like salty tears as much as any girl! But also more titles, and sparklies plz.

Tasear

What would make it feel better?

Blaqueflame

Tasear wrote: »

What would make it feel better?

1. Having healing totals reflected on end of game scorecard - so healing is reflected every single game
when my teammates are rehashing the game, "whoa man 21 kills 10 assists" ... I wanna be saying whoa man I topped board heals.

2. Medals for heals. Every game - not one or two, like a token healer pat on head, but consistent/proportionate to those being racked up for murdering.

3. Having substantially more achievements/titles/spakly shizz to reflect healing and defensive play over all - so things like holding your relic/preventing capture or things like a "keep it Clean" achievement - cleansed or purged X amount of dmg across whatever match ... or somehow adding heals into the assist counter - cuz lets face it, we're assisting the shizz out of everyone.

4. Rethinking tactics in game ... so brute force can on occasion be a disadvantage .. encourage teams to engage brains, not just brawn. Like stoopid should hurt at least sometimes.

5. Thanking your healer -- I just finished a BG and one of my team members took 20 seconds out of his life to say, "Awesome job Banfaith, thanks" - and for me, that made the game.

I think there are many ways forward, these ideas are just off the top of my head. But more talk, and a lot more action to remedy.

ChunkyCat

Stop picking yer nose.

Blaqueflame

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Stop picking yer nose.

*files nails*

Maryal

Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but I think they go into BGs for the 'attention.' The good news is that it works, because, you know, people end up paying lots of attention to them, especially in BGs. The bad news is that all that attention shortens their life span ... quite a bit.

Beardimus

If you check the patch notes healing is going to affect the scores in the next patch.

I get what you are saying however a healer is invaluable to help a team win. You have to look past the personal position on the score board and think about team victory.

For example, sorcs are good for execute. That's their role. So in a DM a sorc will top the board for kills. BUT if your team was all Sorcs they would do pretty badly. A decent premade needs a sorc, a healer then some hybrids so StamDens work well.

Focus on the team winning rather than worrying about personal score.

I'm all for healing meaning more and titles etc so I do hear you

Blaqueflame

Maryal wrote: »

Shhhhh, don't tell anyone, but I think they go into BGs for the 'attention.' The good news is that it works, because, you know, people end up paying lots of attention to them, especially in BGs. The bad news is that all that attention shortens their life span ... quite a bit.

lol my bf says I'm like a raid boss ... ya know ... everyone shows up to kill you. Sometimes they even succeed - either way no lootz for them

Blaqueflame

Beardimus wrote: »

If you check the patch notes healing is going to affect the scores in the next patch.

I get what you are saying however a healer is invaluable to help a team win. You have to look past the personal position on the score board and think about team victory.

For example, sorcs are good for execute. That's their role. So in a DM a sorc will top the board for kills. BUT if your team was all Sorcs they would do pretty badly. A decent premade needs a sorc, a healer then some hybrids so StamDens work well.

Focus on the team winning rather than worrying about personal score.

I'm all for healing meaning more and titles etc so I do hear you

I did see patch notes - and am curious to see how that will go *waiting with bated breath*

I don't agree with the focus **only* being on the team win thang -- I am all about the team win BUT I play to excel - and I want to see my efforts tangibly reflected. Just like ya know the big boys and girls with the deeps, the kill counts and the achievements.

Sinolai

Since the introduction of fanged worm and horned dragon, I have also done bg with my healer and it has been going better than I expected. especiallly capture the relic feels easier when I run between enemy and relic carrier and spam heals, purges and stun enemies. You can actually browse through each player stats to see damage and healing done in the match but yeah, nobody is probably going to notice your 300K healing done and only see that 1/5/4 KDA. Woule also like to see some more heal oriented achievements (Heal relic carriers for xx, heal atleast xxxxxxx hp throught all games, save an ally from a killing blow) and especially medals. Healer is usually also with lowest score as they do not carry relics or kill people. the only medals they usually get are taking or defending capture points.

Blaqueflame

Sinolai wrote: »

Since the introduction of fanged worm and horned dragon, I have also done bg with my healer and it has been going better than I expected. especiallly capture the relic feels easier when I run between enemy and relic carrier and spam heals, purges and stun enemies. You can actually browse through each player stats to see damage and healing done in the match but yeah, nobody is probably going to notice your 300K healing done and only see that 1/5/4 KDA. Woule also like to see some more heal oriented achievements (Heal relic carriers for xx, heal atleast xxxxxxx hp throught all games, save an ally from a killing blow) and especially medals. Healer is usually also with lowest score as they do not carry relics or kill people. the only medals they get are taking or defending capture points.

Yes, Imma feelin' that!

There are 3/31 achievements for healers:

Chaos Guardian - Heal 375,000 for the chaos ball carrier {title awarded - Chaos Guardian}
Divine Guardian - Heal 375,000 for your relic carriers in a single match
Divine Protector - Heal Heal 375,000 in a a domination match (as below as well, weird)

+ the Steady Centurion Achievement - which is not for healers specifically, but you get a nod for taking 250,000 dmg in a Domination match [frankly I feel like I experience that about every 4 minutes in all the BGs lol)

Unlike deeps, there are very few opportunities to gain achievements or titles (1) for healing - I'd love a Divine Protector title like maybe for getting all three healer achievements Or a Like A BOSS title, for surviving insane dmg (as we do every other minute).

Note: All healer achievements are dependent on team cooperation, we can't go all rogue and heal the bushes to get the goods.

*edited to complete multiple thoughts

BNOC

Is it fun to join a pug of 4(dps) v 4(dps) v 3(dps+you)?

I get that standing at the back and pressing a couple buttons is easy - Maybe that's why healers aren't rewarded as well.

Wouldn't it be more fun to participate in the PvP though, instead of taking a back seat role doing a bit of, essentially PvE healing?

Don't get me wrong, if I've got a healer, that's ace for me and I'm about to go extra, but I'll never understand why you're having fun - Outside of a premade.

Beardimus

If you want to feel loved as a healer roll with a pre-made. Get a crew together and you will be compliments on the difference you make.

Most of us that PUG are self sustaining etc, and its 4 individuals running together. True support role kicks in when you roll a known group

Blaqueflame

Beardimus wrote: »

If you want to feel loved as a healer roll with a pre-made. Get a crew together and you will be compliments on the difference you make.

Most of us that PUG are self sustaining etc, and its 4 individuals running together. True support role kicks in when you roll a known group

That's definitely my impression. I play with a newly formed team of 4 - and the difference is amazing compared to going in with a cold PUG. All that said, I am running solo this evening and have had some stellar friendlies to play with *free glitter to them all*

Blaqueflame

BNOC wrote: »

Is it fun to join a pug of 4(dps) v 4(dps) v 3(dps+you)?

I get that standing at the back and pressing a couple buttons is easy - Maybe that's why healers aren't rewarded as well.

Wouldn't it be more fun to participate in the PvP though, instead of taking a back seat role doing a bit of, essentially PvE healing?

Don't get me wrong, if I've got a healer, that's ace for me and I'm about to go extra, but I'll never understand why you're having fun - Outside of a premade.

Wow - where do I even ... being a PVP healer is a serious adrenalin rush - you're under constant pressure to do what healers do, faster, smarter, more strategically, more powerfully. You're tasked with not only keeping your team moving, you're also doing so under enormous pressure to keep yourself up. Healing is incredibly fast moving, and certainly involves more than pushing two buttons from a distance LOL.

Honestly - I think everyone should give it a go - would make y'all better deepers, and train you to use heals effectively to excel at what you're already doing ... slayin' em all.

BNOC

Blaqueflame wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Is it fun to join a pug of 4(dps) v 4(dps) v 3(dps+you)?

I get that standing at the back and pressing a couple buttons is easy - Maybe that's why healers aren't rewarded as well.

Wouldn't it be more fun to participate in the PvP though, instead of taking a back seat role doing a bit of, essentially PvE healing?

Don't get me wrong, if I've got a healer, that's ace for me and I'm about to go extra, but I'll never understand why you're having fun - Outside of a premade.

Wow - where do I even ... being a PVP healer is a serious adrenalin rush - you're under constant pressure to do what healers do, faster, smarter, more strategically, more powerfully. You're tasked with not only keeping your team moving, you're also doing so under enormous pressure to keep yourself up. Healing is incredibly fast moving, and certainly involves more than pushing two buttons from a distance LOL.

Honestly - I think everyone should give it a go - would make y'all better deepers, and train you to use heals effectively to excel at what you're already doing ... slayin' em all.

That's fair enough if you enjoy it!

Beardimus hit the nail on the head though - If you want some love, roll a premade and you'll be the key asset.

I suppose it depends on MMR as well, at low MMR healers aren't nearly as effective and useful as they are at higher MMR's, at least in my opinion.

Blaqueflame

BNOC wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Is it fun to join a pug of 4(dps) v 4(dps) v 3(dps+you)?

I get that standing at the back and pressing a couple buttons is easy - Maybe that's why healers aren't rewarded as well.

Wouldn't it be more fun to participate in the PvP though, instead of taking a back seat role doing a bit of, essentially PvE healing?

Don't get me wrong, if I've got a healer, that's ace for me and I'm about to go extra, but I'll never understand why you're having fun - Outside of a premade.

Wow - where do I even ... being a PVP healer is a serious adrenalin rush - you're under constant pressure to do what healers do, faster, smarter, more strategically, more powerfully. You're tasked with not only keeping your team moving, you're also doing so under enormous pressure to keep yourself up. Healing is incredibly fast moving, and certainly involves more than pushing two buttons from a distance LOL.

Honestly - I think everyone should give it a go - would make y'all better deepers, and train you to use heals effectively to excel at what you're already doing ... slayin' em all.

That's fair enough if you enjoy it!

Beardimus hit the nail on the head though - If you want some love, roll a premade and you'll be the key asset.

I suppose it depends on MMR as well, at low MMR healers aren't nearly as effective and useful as they are at higher MMR's, at least in my opinion.

Oh man - I love, love, love pvp healing! No criticism about the task at all. Just I think its important to value and reward roles, equitably.

All that said, PVP healing is a tuff gig sometimes, not for sissies lol --- just played a rough deathmatch with a PUG: two tight strong teams against mine - who failed to group up or stay together, ran around the place like porkchops, dying like dogs ... can't heal stoopid.

gabriebe

T-bags, usually.

Blaqueflame

gabriebe wrote: »

T-bags, usually.

lol I haven't had that experience .. I'll count myself blessed

jaws343

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

CatchMeTrolling

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

exeeter702

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

Blaqueflame

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

Interesting conversation. As a dedicated BG healer (templar) set to heal, purge/cleanse/return resources to players, who does not stop healing and does extreme power healing on flags etc. I routinely sit at about 250-300 k worth of heals - I use javelin to pick players off, get them off the flag/relic etc, and throw shards for a bit of dmg/but more resources for others. I alternate my ulti's dmg/heal depending on what I deem more important to the grp in the moment. I am not trying to do a bunch of dmg I'm healing and when I am focused on dmg, I am clearly not healing - but even so ... that dmg reflects marginally at best on the score card - so the fact you two potentially out heal and dmg me is interesting as hell. I'd like to see some video footage of that as those numbers certainly are not reflected on the scorecards I'm reviewing end of fight.

*edited cuz I can't count on my first coffee

Blaqueflame

exeeter702 wrote: »

Good healers do far more than simply heal bot. The difference between average and great is the healer that still brings damage, some form of lethal, to the table. Those healers always get noticed.

If you are rolling up in a bg as a try hard heal bot that would make a cyrodil zerg proud, then you are doing it wrong.

Imo ofc.

" try hard heal bot" ...

Perhaps views like this contribute to the reluctance of dedicated healers to queue for BGs.

Blaqueflame

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

PS/ Healers perform well on medal scores where they are rewarded for contributing to objectives like Crazy King or Domination for instance. Where we don't score is kill count and we don't score for defensive action (no one does).

CatchMeTrolling

Blaqueflame wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

PS/ Healers perform well on medal scores where they are rewarded for contributing to objectives like Crazy King or Domination for instance. Where we don't score is kill count and we don't score for defensive action (no one does).

What do you define as defense? When defending a flag for example if you kill, take damage or heal you get points for it. Actually I believe the 500 vigilant medal is for “defending”

And the reason you don’t typically see people with high damage and heals is because a lot of dps don’t off heal and let their teammates die. I don’t care if you’re a healer I’ll throw a vigor and ritual down unless I’m going to die in the process of attempting to do so.

Blaqueflame

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

PS/ Healers perform well on medal scores where they are rewarded for contributing to objectives like Crazy King or Domination for instance. Where we don't score is kill count and we don't score for defensive action (no one does).

What do you define as defense? When defending a flag for example if you kill, take damage or heal you get points for it. Actually I believe the 500 vigilant medal is for “defending”

And the reason you don’t typically see people with high damage and heals is because a lot of dps don’t off heal and let their teammates die. I don’t care if you’re a healer I’ll throw a vigor and ritual down unless I’m going to die in the process of attempting to do so.

Yes that's what I mean - as a healer you'll definitely get medal values for say capturing points (well if you are on flag) but if you're power healing your teammates say to defend your relic/flag - you aren't contributing to kill count - Or I am sure not dps-ing when I am trying to keep my team up with another team or two on top of us.

I agree, you don't generally see people with high dmg/kill counts and high heals is cuz in the midst of big dmg you cannot do both well - so you pick your poison (mine's healing).

And you're a star for throwing out support heals, not only for yourself but for others. I certainly appreciate a timely vigor.

CatchMeTrolling

Blaqueflame wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Blaqueflame wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I took my trials healer into a BG last night for the daily random, slotted jabs to do a bit of damage when necessary. I had 1 kill but I had 20 or so assists and like 2 deaths. All I was doing was laying down wall of elements and shards and hitting players with backlash and then just healing all of my teammates and dropping nova whenever enemies would get bunched up. I think I finished second in points, so it is possible to contribute and show up on the scoreboard as a healer.

Aren't they also adding more ways for healers to earn points in the next patch?

You didn’t purely heal, assist are worth just as much as kills. Nothing wrong with playing that way but that’s not the same thing as someone coming in to do nothing but heal and add utility.

Next patch they’re buffing the points you get for healing. Which is good , albeit any player specced as dps and actually off heal will dominate the score. My dps stamplar easily gets 200k-300k passive healing without troll king.

PS/ Healers perform well on medal scores where they are rewarded for contributing to objectives like Crazy King or Domination for instance. Where we don't score is kill count and we don't score for defensive action (no one does).

What do you define as defense? When defending a flag for example if you kill, take damage or heal you get points for it. Actually I believe the 500 vigilant medal is for “defending”

And the reason you don’t typically see people with high damage and heals is because a lot of dps don’t off heal and let their teammates die. I don’t care if you’re a healer I’ll throw a vigor and ritual down unless I’m going to die in the process of attempting to do so.

Yes that's what I mean - as a healer you'll definitely get medal values for say capturing points (well if you are on flag) but if you're power healing your teammates say to defend your relic/flag - you aren't contributing to kill count - Or I am sure not dps-ing when I am trying to keep my team up with another team or two on top of us.

I agree, you don't generally see people with high dmg/kill counts and high heals is cuz in the midst of big dmg you cannot do both well - so you pick your poison (mine's healing).

And you're a star for throwing out support heals, not only for yourself but for others. I certainly appreciate a timely vigor.

Yeah I off heal more than most because it comes natural since I typically choose the Paladin/cleric/Templar in mmos to solo content and heal in dungeons/raids.

I meant to post these yesterday edited to take out names. Not the greatest player but you’ll get the idea of what I mean by damage and heals.

https://m.imgur.com/a/BcPaI45

Anyways I just feel like there’s a bias when it comes to pure healers and tanks but that bias vanishes for pure dps.

Ps. Stam Sorc, stamplar and magic Warden.

ecru

Just find a good dps to queue with and pocket them. You don't need an entire premade to shine as a healer.