Why don't people use Infernal Guardian?

SilverIce58

I think the only time I've ever actually seen it being used is when I went looking for a video on it. I know that sorcs use ilambris bc it supplements both their fire/lightning dmg, but is there a problem with IG's 2-piece bonus?

Tryxus

Cuz it procs from casting a damage shield, not while automatically doing damage

It is nice in vMA and PVP tho

kylewwefan

I tried it. Here’s some of the problems with it. I rarely play Sorc anymore, but I remember a little.

It fires off a few mortars to the furthest away from you mob. Hits like a truck. But is single target. It’s not gonna do enough damage to kill anything, but maybe weaken it a little for you.

You’d probably be better off to use Skoria.

Illambris has the ability to do AOE Damage. It can double proc. So you get fire and lightning Illambris. May inevitably do more damage over time. Though, sometimes mobs walk right out of it.

Royaji

PvE perspective: Ilambris is just plain better. It procs from damage and not shields and the more skilled a player is the less shielding he will be doing. Uptime is just not that great.

PvP perspective: Infernal guardian was pretty popular at one point and sorcs used to run it. It's still fairly easy to avoid since the AoE circle appears long before the mortar shot even lands. Compare this to something like Zaan.

jaws343

In both PVP and PVE, you have no way of controlling who/what the proc targets, and I think that is the biggest problem with the ability. You may need the damage to focus on a boss or a player you are focusing on but the proc will go after and add or player you don't even see. And in PVP, it is very easy to avoid.

It is pretty decent in duels since you are only fighting one player and if it is a melee character, the AOE from the proc can force a player off of you and into range.

Waffennacht

I do in vMA, all but the lizard boss.

When I solo content I typically use it. Because I'll be casting Shields often AF.

That's when. Or in a PuG that may as well be a solo experience lol

Asardes

People used it in PvP a long time ago because it was broken and could proc and hit people trough walls, and also hit stealthed people from a long distance. I switched to Slimercraw recently since it adds more damage. In PvE it's really bad since it often hits the wrong enemy. Ex. in vRoM it killed the wamasu handlers and released them prematurely. I don't see the point of using it in vMA either since as a sorc you already have a 28m range on all abilities and enemies have really low HP anyway. You can kill them fast with just LA->Force Pulse.

Minalan

It’s a decent PVP set with rune cage, you can guarantee that a couple of the bombs hit. It also pulls a nightblade out of stealth, if the bomb is already headed to them when they cloak.

The problem is that there are just many better choices out there. Zaan. Engine. Kena. Etc.

CompM4s

Its pretty great in pvp when you cc/ time it with other skills to burst people down.

VaranisArano

I've used it on my mag sorc's first run of VMA because I'm shielding all the time as I'm frantically trying to learn the arena.

El_Borracho

I've been toying with it in some trials on a stam build until I get Selenes, Velidreth, or something better, as it was the first monster set I got that had some utility. Not claiming this is BiS or some secret, but its not a terrible placeholder on a 5-5-2 build

The proc rate is good and it has been fairly effective in trials like Cloudrest and HRC where the mobs stick close to each other or there is a second boss. The cost of the mortars is not high, the cooldown is in line with my rotation (6 seconds), and it hits hard. Can't use against all boss fights, such as ones where you have to avoid hitting one or keeping damage even, like the Twins in vMOL.

Eyesinthedrk

The big reason it’s not used in PVE is because you can pull the boss while trying to buff and shield up before the fight starts.

weg0

Eyesinthedrk wrote: »

The big reason it’s not used in PVE is because you can pull the boss while trying to buff and shield up before the fight starts.

And don’t forget the proc is a 50% chance from a 1sec channeled ability! ;-)

GreenhaloX

I try it on one of my DK tank, since I'm constantly popping Fragmented Shield. It's been ehh.. I prefer the damages to hit the boss and adds in front and right around me and not some adds at the back where the dps can easily take those out without me needing to taunt them in.

Samsgaard

For my DK tank, I like it because it's free dps from doing something I'm already doing every six seconds (shielding). In a single-target boss fight, it will hit the boss every time, and it's pretty funny to see it go off at close range. I also find it useful in trash fights because the fireball often alerts me to a somewhat-hidden mob that I haven't yet chained into the killing zone.

SirAndy

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.

I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

idk

It just does not do enough damage compared to other sets, in PvE dungeons and trials.

Biro123

SirAndy wrote: »

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.

I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

Why do you think more would use it? Especially given that it will do 25% less damage to anyone running major evasion, an their inability to crit means that'll do less damage to shields. I also think most shield builds will have enough resists/impen so they won't need to cast them as much, so it won't proc as much.
I'm thinking shield users would instead be gravitating to monster sets that give resists.

Feanor

It’s just really easy to avoid in PvP unless you get CC’ed right before it hits. As @Asardes said people were only using it in the days it was released because it could hit NBs in stealth and didn’t obey LoS. After that was fixed the set almost vanished.

And in PvE it just can’t compete with the damage Illambris gives.

SirAndy

Biro123 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.
I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

Why do you think more would use it?

Because shields will be reduced to 40% of max health instead of 100%.
From my testing on the PTS, if i want to keep my build, i have to double the amount of shield casts.
Infernal Guardian procs with shield casts. More shield casts, more procs, more damage.

I did a couple of runs to test this with my Mag Pet Sorc and i got Infernal Guardian to consistently rank #4 in my Combat metrics report.

And that ^^^ was in actual vet group dungeon *solo* boss fights, not on a dummy.

Biro123

SirAndy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.
I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

Why do you think more would use it?

Because shields will be reduced to 40% of max health instead of 100%.
From my testing on the PTS, if i want to keep my build, i have to double the amount of shield casts.
Infernal Guardian procs with shield casts. More shield casts, more procs, more damage.

I did a couple of runs to test this with my Mag Pet Sorc and i got Infernal Guardian to consistently rank #4 in my Combat metrics report.

And that ^^^ was in actual vet group dungeon *solo* boss fights, not on a dummy.

It does have a cooldown though.. I think this stops it making much difference. But I see you're talking PVE, while I'm talking PVP..
Apple's n Oranges.

Kram8ion

It’s one of my favs when I’m specced to mag very handy and fun for solo baby dungeons

Thraben

Biro123 wrote: »

It does have a cooldown though.. I think this stops it making much difference. But I see you're talking PVE, while I'm talking PVP..
Apple's n Oranges.

In Pve, Iambris is better, in PvP it is:

a) the third best single target damage set (if you can manage to CC, though way behind Zaan and Selene)
b) the second best AoE damage set (second only to Grothdarr)
c) the second best ranged damage set (beating the best - Skoria - by a landslide damagewise, though Skoria´s hit is guaranteed and not bound to a shield proc which makes Skoria a better choice on most classes)

Its lack of popularity simply stems from the fact that the Infernal Guardian is good in many aspects, but nowhere truly the best. (And because people don´t know that Shield Assault solves most of the set´s problems)

Lord-Otto

It can be outwalked in PvP. Even with a CC (Rune Cage), you have to time burst, proc and CC - very, very rare to work out perfectly. And that's not even considering you need to weave a defensive skill for that offense.
Speaking of, you can use this as an agressor deterrent, and that's actually its best use - for defense. However, why not slap on a real defensive set, like Shadowrend, Bloodspawn, Chaudan, etc.? They're better, sooo.

PvE, you wanna avoid shielding as much as possible. So Ilambris and Zaan are more efficient overall. No offense, Andy, but your example is super specialized and really doesn't say much for 90% of fights. I can agree, in the other ten percent, it's actually quite useful.

MalagenR

SirAndy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.
I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

Why do you think more would use it?

Because shields will be reduced to 40% of max health instead of 100%.
From my testing on the PTS, if i want to keep my build, i have to double the amount of shield casts.
Infernal Guardian procs with shield casts. More shield casts, more procs, more damage.

I did a couple of runs to test this with my Mag Pet Sorc and i got Infernal Guardian to consistently rank #4 in my Combat metrics report.

And that ^^^ was in actual vet group dungeon *solo* boss fights, not on a dummy.

If you were running IG in PVE dungeons your DPS was garbage.

ccmedaddy

MalagenR wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I recently switched to it on my Mag PetSorc and so far it's a lot of fun.
It procs constantly and each mortar *does* have an small 5m AOE range.
I'm guessing with the upcoming shield changes nerfs, we'll probably see more people running it ...

Why do you think more would use it?

Because shields will be reduced to 40% of max health instead of 100%.
From my testing on the PTS, if i want to keep my build, i have to double the amount of shield casts.
Infernal Guardian procs with shield casts. More shield casts, more procs, more damage.

I did a couple of runs to test this with my Mag Pet Sorc and i got Infernal Guardian to consistently rank #4 in my Combat metrics report.

And that ^^^ was in actual vet group dungeon *solo* boss fights, not on a dummy.

If you were running IG in PVE dungeons your DPS was garbage.

TIL monster set accounts for the majority of one's DPS

Karm1cOne

I miss the days of mortaring people on top of keeps with this. It was super fun.

SirAndy

MalagenR wrote: »

If you were running IG in PVE dungeons your DPS was garbage.

Garbage as in 0.27% off the current meta, then yes, garbage.



Otherwise, plenty of DPS to do *all* of the content in ESO with ease ...

smacx250

I like it - it's fun.

WrathOfInnos

The one use I’ve found for this set is vCR+3. If you are going for deathless it is a good idea to shield for each flare, in case spheres or Yaghras hit you at the same time. This means IG will proc often, and over the course of the fight it outperforms Skoria, Zaan and Ilambris. The strange targeting usually works out in there, since it will hit spheres or creepers whenever they are up, and crystals while in the portal, but sometimes it will be wasted by targeting mini bosses that are already defeated.

SirAndy

Just ran vMA with it and the targeting logic actually ended up being pretty beneficial on some of the stages because many have adds that stay on the perimeter.