Post #33,457: nerf sorcs

Malamar1229

I took out a group of 6 blues the other night on vicec... was this you? All I can say is they were REALLY bad.

caeliusstarbreaker

ChildOfLight wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

We prefer the term “stamplar”

Please. We prefer the term "stamdk"

I don’t know how you’re playing your Stam dk.

Sky_WK

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

ChildOfLight wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

We prefer the term “stamplar”

Please. We prefer the term "stamdk"

I don’t know how you’re playing your Stam dk.

Other classes are so boring with such a strict meta. Stamdk offers options for therory crafting, and has alot tools.

Drakkdjinn

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

I want them to be excuse-making engines for forum lobbyists & apologists to practice the art of self-serving bollsheitery on.

Y’all need to learn another class.

Source: am sorc.

I'm sorry new words frighten you I guess?

Thogard

The runecage animation is way too long. It is harder to break out of than petrify. You can’t break free until the sorc’s animation ends but it’s a long one.

Beardimus

They could remove Rune Cage and still we'd have these threads is the issue.
Suddenly we'd be back to wards. Remove them

Then boom Wrath/Fury is OP. Remove that and its overload that's the issue.

Remove that and its pets again. Pesky pets.

One thread yesterday (i lose count) Frags were the problem lol. Despite 3 huge nerfs and pulse hitting harder.

Hey ***, way of the forum

Feanor

Thogard wrote: »

The runecage animation is way too long. It is harder to break out of than petrify. You can’t break free until the sorc’s animation ends but it’s a long one.

I don’t understand why the animation is like that, but animations seldom get changed even if the skill itself changes completely (the stealthing animation on Dark Cloak makes absolutely no sense now for example). It’s a relic from when the skill was a 30 second disorient and the long animation was moot therefore.

Though, as for petrify, the immobilize after the stun ends is equally nasty. It’s double the stam drain if you don’t just want to stand there and look at the DK flogging you.

With RC I’m at least free if the break free actually works. I think this discussion is a bit blown out of proportion too. People conveniently forget the strength of their CCs (no, not you Templars and magWardens).

Vahrokh

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

Awesome I am going to screenshot this!

Vahrokh

MrDenimChicken wrote: »

yeah theres a reason all the streamers went to sorc

All streamers went magblade for trials, nobody is asking for nerfs though.

Vahrokh

Beardimus wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

Or on the flip side finding out who wants to have an easy ride playing sorc by defending them

Lol, roll one. Play one, show us how easy it is. Upload your Xv1 videos please.

Sorcs have been mediocre at best last two patches. Gain some damage on Cage and people lose their mind. I had better burst prior to Frag Nerfs.

I get it, people new to Cyrodiil need to learn to Counter Sorcs, and the band wagon is always there to jump on when they cant.

But regardless of Nerfs or buffs people moan. Prior to.the cage change they moaned despite Blades clearly being on top for 6 months. It's a default state and very boring.

As I say if they are god mode just roll one and decimate the field. Nope didn't think so.

The problem is that every MMO gets their KING, DOMINANT alpha class.

In WoW and other MMOs usually warriors and rogues are on top and with their huge numbers downright dictate the game balance to the developers. "Or else...".

ESO had DKs and NBs dominant for years. Then they gutted DKs and NBs remained the alpha male class. And now, of course, they demand to dictate the game balance. Guess what, they have a chip on their shoulders about their counter-class. Guess what, they relentlessy spam the forums about nerfing their counter class.

... and guess what, like for WoW etc. they KNOW that the game developers SHALL OBEY them, that's why they never give up creating new nerf threads. They KNOW that they are going to get the nerf they demand.

If I were a game company I'd stick a post at day zero, stating: "create all the nerf threads you want, we are going to do the opposite of what you cry about".

Vahrokh

Ankael07 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

I'm a Sorc main since beta and I have to say the class is overtuned. The only excuse for Sorcerers having the best burst in the game was that it was easily predictable and avoidable. Crystal Frags is visible in the player's hands, Curse has 3.5 seconds timer and Meteor has both visual and sound cues before impact.

All of these counterplays goes out the window when Rune Cage comes in the scenario. It drops your block and stuns you through dodge, allowing the Sorc to execute the best burst with little effort. All of this from 41 meters away.

Now imagine the Sorcerer using Skoria or Caluurion. With Destructive Reach + Alchemy poisons its 4 different DOTs on the enemy ( 32% chance to proc Skoria per second) and Crushing Shock has exceptionally high chance to proc Caluurion ( 3 different direct hits means 3 times the player's crit chance )

The excuse is this: they DEMANDED crystal frags nerf? Now they get Rune Cage in the face. It's the right retribution for the bunch of whiny losers who made ZOS butcher our class defining spell.

Vahrokh

Beardimus wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Sorc needs buffs, take rune cage for instance, max range is nice, but it only ignores dodges, reflects & blocks, now obviously I spend most of the time looking at my skillbar, so obviously sometimes when I use rune cage the person is CC immune (it is unfair to expect me to be aware of things like that), so in addition to it ignoring other defensive mechanics I feel it needs a buff so it ignores CC immunity so I always hit if I manage to aim vaguely in the right direction. ( I played Counterstrike once it made me cry, I am a good aimer in ESO, but I kept missing in CS, I think there must be something wrong with their game engine...)

I feel Mages Wrath & Implosion should be the model for skilled sorc gameplay, I like the way they do things automatically for me like not having to worry about exactly when someone's health gets into execute range, this is good this makes me a more skilled ESO player.

I am thinking with this level of skilled play ESO can go on to be an e-sport and dethrone DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc.

Lol, so now Mages Wrath / Fury is the problem? I get confused with all the sorc hate is it Cage or Reach and with cage is it range or CC or that its broken to break free or damage or is it wards, are sorcs too mobile or too tanky or too wardy or is it Wrath or is it Overload or is it the pesky Pets or is it (enter Monster Helm / Weopon / Generic skill not class related) paired with Sorc awesomeness.

So would you prefer Mages Wrath & implosion to execute from 50% but be instant only? whats the answer to your Wrath annoyance?

You get confused, so I'll make it simple: they want the class DELETED.

Or, if it's impossible, make sorcs be training dummies that give AP when they die. And they'll still cry, because those training dummies would take too long to die!

Vahrokh

SilverWF wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and

And that 6 (ALL OF THEM) was incredibly and stupidly bad! Even more, they are probably were 1-handed and tried to play with gamepads.
There is no reasons to even take care about this case.

If it's the famous MalcolM video, I have seen it too. I PvP very little, however I'd have played better than those 6... And MalcolM is a skill monster to begin with. His sense of awareness and multitasking skills are awesome, his setups are balanced by multiple parameters.

Sergykid

i often was in an above average group and sorcs are always a problem. I suggest we all just go play sorcs and then maybe they'll notice

Minalan

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and take millions in damage without running out of resources. When you have a range dps light armor class that is tankier than a stam dk, you have made serious errors in your game design.

You are hurting the game. You are making it difficult to draw new players in because you’ve given sorcs the ability to do things that YOU YOURSELF claimed were not in ESO’s interests. You said in an episode of eso live that you don’t want a one-shot combo class, but here it is. You said yourself in another episode that you don’t want a class that can sustain indefinitely, but here it is. You said you don’t want a class that can outperform heavy armor tanks, but here it is.

Stop messing up this game and nerf the GD Effing class.

(To be fair, I think they should get more dps, they’re just way too tanky)

So which one of us Sorcs 1vX’ed you so hard, you respawned here on the forums?

If it was me, I can’t say I’m sorry.

callen4492

Yeah, sorcs have it all. They need a nerf. Remember when sorcs were crying because crystal frags got its stun taken away? Well, in it’s place they got a top tier CC in rune cage. It’s comparable to a dk’s petrify but the difference is that mag dk’s don’t have INSANE burst.

callen4492

Nerf sorcs

Minalan

callen4492 wrote: »

Yeah, sorcs have it all. They need a nerf. Remember when sorcs were crying because crystal frags got its stun taken away? Well, in it’s place they got a top tier CC in rune cage. It’s comparable to a dk’s petrify but the difference is that mag dk’s don’t have INSANE burst.

You cried about the frag stun, and look where that got you.

Do you think you’re better off with rune cage now?

Seriously though, if six of you died to one Sorc, you’ve got to be the worst bunch of window-licking PVPers ever. Light attacks from six people every GCD should kill anyone FFS, how hard is a right click?

Urvoth

Beardimus wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

Or on the flip side finding out who wants to have an easy ride playing sorc by defending them

Lol, roll one. Play one, show us how easy it is. Upload your Xv1 videos please.

Sorcs have been mediocre at best last two patches. Gain some damage on Cage and people lose their mind. I had better burst prior to Frag Nerfs.

I get it, people new to Cyrodiil need to learn to Counter Sorcs, and the band wagon is always there to jump on when they cant.

But regardless of Nerfs or buffs people moan. Prior to.the cage change they moaned despite Blades clearly being on top for 6 months. It's a default state and very boring.

As I say if they are god mode just roll one and decimate the field. Nope didn't think so.

Nightblades are still top tier, it's just that sorcs are very good at quickly killing noobs and bad players, and our shields make it seem that we don't take damage. People that don't understand the class or how to play against one are the main ones complaining, since in reality most good players can still fight sorcs just fine.

CyrusArya

Urvoth wrote: »

Nightblades are still top tier, it's just that sorcs are very good at quickly killing noobs and bad players, and our shields make it seem that we don't take damage. People that don't understand the class or how to play against one are the main ones complaining, since in reality most good players can still fight sorcs just fine.

This is all true. But that is not mutually exclusive with the idea that rune cage is broken and severely dumbing the class down. Problem is, bad players are taking this chance to complain about everything and paint all the aspects of sorc as op, and mediocre Sorcs are getting super defensive and saying everything about the class is mediocre.

Both sides are lame and too biased.

ItsNebula

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and take millions in damage without running out of resources. When you have a range dps light armor class that is tankier than a stam dk, you have made serious errors in your game design.

You are hurting the game. You are making it difficult to draw new players in because you’ve given sorcs the ability to do things that YOU YOURSELF claimed were not in ESO’s interests. You said in an episode of eso live that you don’t want a one-shot combo class, but here it is. You said yourself in another episode that you don’t want a class that can sustain indefinitely, but here it is. You said you don’t want a class that can outperform heavy armor tanks, but here it is.

Stop messing up this game and nerf the GD Effing class.

(To be fair, I think they should get more dps, they’re just way too tanky)

Ever heard of skills? Not hard to 1v6 on any class if youre good at it.

MagSorc is actually probably the worst 1vX class right now because they rely on shields, no snare removal, no good reliable healing etc. It takes a LOT of skill to 1vX on a MagSorc.. those 6 players must have just been really bad, or it was a good MagSorc.

L2P

ItsNebula

GawdSB wrote: »

Sorcs only class that can stun and execute you from all the way across the map and they probably think it takes skill.

Try 1vXing on a Sorc in this day and age of ESO.. and winning it

Vahrokh

CyrusArya wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nightblades are still top tier, it's just that sorcs are very good at quickly killing noobs and bad players, and our shields make it seem that we don't take damage. People that don't understand the class or how to play against one are the main ones complaining, since in reality most good players can still fight sorcs just fine.

This is all true. But that is not mutually exclusive with the idea that rune cage is broken and severely dumbing the class down. Problem is, bad players are taking this chance to complain about everything and paint all the aspects of sorc as op, and mediocre Sorcs are getting super defensive and saying everything about the class is mediocre.

Both sides are lame and too biased.

Because we have seen what happens by not counter-argumenting. ZOS spams idiotic nerfs right and left. And when they re-buff, it's even worse.

Sorcs got Rune Cage BECAUSE people flooded the forums with tears for lolfrags.

Give back a properly actualized crystal frags (with damage and CC) THEN you can keep Rune Cage.

Priyasekarssk

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and take millions in damage without running out of resources. When you have a range dps light armor class that is tankier than a stam dk, you have made serious errors in your game design.

You are hurting the game. You are making it difficult to draw new players in because you’ve given sorcs the ability to do things that YOU YOURSELF claimed were not in ESO’s interests. You said in an episode of eso live that you don’t want a one-shot combo class, but here it is. You said yourself in another episode that you don’t want a class that can sustain indefinitely, but here it is. You said you don’t want a class that can outperform heavy armor tanks, but here it is.

Stop messing up this game and nerf the GD Effing class.

(To be fair, I think they should get more dps, they’re just way too tanky)

So all NBs joined to put fake comments in forums. Sorc is tankier than stam Dk ? Sorc one shot someone ?
Forum is not place for jokes. You should properly explain which scenario and why it cannot be countered ? Why wasting everyone time ? Just because someone better than you doesnt make it overpowered. And you are putting and ZOs representative as if you have post something ? No one want to hear L2P issues.

rimmidimdim

CyrusArya wrote: »

Urvoth wrote: »

Nightblades are still top tier, it's just that sorcs are very good at quickly killing noobs and bad players, and our shields make it seem that we don't take damage. People that don't understand the class or how to play against one are the main ones complaining, since in reality most good players can still fight sorcs just fine.

This is all true. But that is not mutually exclusive with the idea that rune cage is broken and severely dumbing the class down. Problem is, bad players are taking this chance to complain about everything and paint all the aspects of sorc as op, and mediocre Sorcs are getting super defensive and saying everything about the class is mediocre.

Both sides are lame and too biased.

Yup yup yup. Pretty much this.

davey1107

@Priyasekarssk

My comment was a letter directly to Eric Wrobel, combat director. If you don’t want to read it, by all means go to another thread. But as a player since console launch, and a frequent contributor, I know that the complaints about sorc and imbalance have been voiced to zos for ~18 months, and have included frequent data-driven analysis by players like alcast.

As such, I didn’t cite for the hundredth time where the class is over performing, because zos knows damn well where it’s over performing. And that’s not to say that there aren’t other imbalance issues with other classes...we all understand that stamblade need some toning down, and mag dks and wardens feel weak right now.

But when a class has the ability to endlessly maintain resources while throwing up endless damage shields and still putting out tons of dps, and I understand it takes a decent player to do this, but when a class has all of the core desirable features and too few drawbacks, the dev team has failed at balancing that class.

And they know it. Sloads is their way of fixing the mess they created...but it just created an even worse mess.

CyrusArya

davey1107 wrote: »

But when a class has the ability to endlessly maintain resources while throwing up endless damage shields and still putting out tons of dps, and I understand it takes a decent player to do this, but when a class has all of the core desirable features and too few drawbacks, the dev team has failed at balancing that class.

The thing is, sorc can only endlessly maintain resources and shields when the opponents it is facing are bad and have low damage and pressure.

Sorc is a particularly difficult class to balance though because the good ones can make it seem like god mode whereas the vast majority of Sorcs are cannon fodder that drop in seconds. So finding a middle ground where it’s not op for the ceiling but still accessible for the floor/middle tiers is tricky. Furthermore, it’s a class that excels at stomping potatoes but is much more grounded versus competent opponents- because it is the most telegraphed class in the game. Guess which type of player tends to whine and cry the most? The vocal baddies make the issue seem much larger than it actually is. Thats always been the case.

Rune cage is problematic because it removes the counterplay from the very telegraphed and counterable sorc offense. And this is a legitimate complaint. But the aforementioned potatoes are taking this opportunity to come out of the woodwork and complain about the Sorcs entire kit, as your multiple posts throughly demonstrate.

Minalan

CyrusArya wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

But when a class has the ability to endlessly maintain resources while throwing up endless damage shields and still putting out tons of dps, and I understand it takes a decent player to do this, but when a class has all of the core desirable features and too few drawbacks, the dev team has failed at balancing that class.

The thing is, sorc can only endlessly maintain resources and shields when the opponents it is facing are bad and have low damage and pressure.

Sorc is a particularly difficult class to balance though because the good ones can make it seem like god mode whereas the vast majority of Sorcs are cannon fodder that drop in seconds. So finding a middle ground where it’s not op for the ceiling but still accessible for the floor/middle tiers is tricky. Furthermore, it’s a class that excels at stomping potatoes but is much more grounded versus competent opponents- because it is the most telegraphed class in the game. Guess which type of player tends to whine and cry the most? The vocal baddies make the issue seem much larger than it actually is. Thats always been the case.

Rune cage is problematic because it removes the counterplay from the very telegraphed and counterable sorc offense. And this is a legitimate complaint. But the aforementioned potatoes are taking this opportunity to come out of the woodwork and complain about the Sorcs entire kit, as your multiple posts throughly demonstrate.

This here deserves a standing ovation.

Priyasekarssk

davey1107 wrote: »

@Priyasekarssk

My comment was a letter directly to Eric Wrobel, combat director. If you don’t want to read it, by all means go to another thread. But as a player since console launch, and a frequent contributor, I know that the complaints about sorc and imbalance have been voiced to zos for ~18 months, and have included frequent data-driven analysis by players like alcast.

As such, I didn’t cite for the hundredth time where the class is over performing, because zos knows damn well where it’s over performing. And that’s not to say that there aren’t other imbalance issues with other classes...we all understand that stamblade need some toning down, and mag dks and wardens feel weak right now.

But when a class has the ability to endlessly maintain resources while throwing up endless damage shields and still putting out tons of dps, and I understand it takes a decent player to do this, but when a class has all of the core desirable features and too few drawbacks, the dev team has failed at balancing that class.

And they know it. Sloads is their way of fixing the mess they created...but it just created an even worse mess.

Class that endless maintain resources ? Thats shows level of game. Mag sorc is the only class in the game with builds without any damage sets and only sustain sets for PVP. Sustain is that much low for sorcs . On 1v1 win all with mag sorcs. Magic sorcs not even stand a chance against stam builds. Magic sorcs can only work in a group. On duel tournaments not even 1 sorc in top places. Its just above magden. Why not top pros ever choose to play magic sorcs or even in tournaments ? I never seen any top players playing magic sorcs in PVP for a very long time.
mag dks and wardens feel weak ? and sorc overpowered ?
Where is that cooked up data coming from ?

L2P issue. Still you haven't told on which scenario magic sorc cannot be countered . Again nothing is there. Blah Blah is not going to work.

still putting out tons of dps , endless damage shields ? Do you know sorcs doesnt have any debuffs ? Mag sorcs can kill only kill mud crabs and noobs with no resistance. Any one with decent resistance with decent skill will not complain about sorcs. Because its not even issue. Any damage put by sorc, I can just heal come back. I know very well sorcs cannot debuffs. Sorc is good at stomping pototoes and noobs without any resistance and refuse to learn.
Probably it can overpowered at lower levels. On higher levels its a junk class.
Its not even a class for competitive game-play in PVP , other than in groups providing support role from back.

Please make a magic sorc if its overpowered. Dont look for cheese kills in the name of game balance and waste thread space. No one is going to care.

Beardimus

CyrusArya wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

But when a class has the ability to endlessly maintain resources while throwing up endless damage shields and still putting out tons of dps, and I understand it takes a decent player to do this, but when a class has all of the core desirable features and too few drawbacks, the dev team has failed at balancing that class.

The thing is, sorc can only endlessly maintain resources and shields when the opponents it is facing are bad and have low damage and pressure.

Sorc is a particularly difficult class to balance though because the good ones can make it seem like god mode whereas the vast majority of Sorcs are cannon fodder that drop in seconds. So finding a middle ground where it’s not op for the ceiling but still accessible for the floor/middle tiers is tricky. Furthermore, it’s a class that excels at stomping potatoes but is much more grounded versus competent opponents- because it is the most telegraphed class in the game. Guess which type of player tends to whine and cry the most? The vocal baddies make the issue seem much larger than it actually is. Thats always been the case.

Rune cage is problematic because it removes the counterplay from the very telegraphed and counterable sorc offense. And this is a legitimate complaint. But the aforementioned potatoes are taking this opportunity to come out of the woodwork and complain about the Sorcs entire kit, as your multiple posts throughly demonstrate.

Perfect. Absolutely spot on