Post #33,457: nerf sorcs

davey1107

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and take millions in damage without running out of resources. When you have a range dps light armor class that is tankier than a stam dk, you have made serious errors in your game design.

You are hurting the game. You are making it difficult to draw new players in because you’ve given sorcs the ability to do things that YOU YOURSELF claimed were not in ESO’s interests. You said in an episode of eso live that you don’t want a one-shot combo class, but here it is. You said yourself in another episode that you don’t want a class that can sustain indefinitely, but here it is. You said you don’t want a class that can outperform heavy armor tanks, but here it is.

Stop messing up this game and nerf the GD Effing class.

(To be fair, I think they should get more dps, they’re just way too tanky)

LeHarrt91

While i agree that sorcs are very strong atm, if you build for sustain on a sorc with, Lich, Engine Guardian and resource poisons you can have immense sustain. add to that, % recovery modifiers. you can go full burst damage and stack 3 shields.
But that is part of the reason Sloads and Shieldbreaker exist and CP like shattering blows and Siphoner.

Plus add to that Undodgable and unblockable skills they use..... you know what..... Sorc OP
lol but yeah very strong again this patch.

Lord-Otto

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

davey1107

I’m probably just cranky because I was in the middle of a very fun battle for nickel, and crashed...reloaded, got back into nickel...ten seconds, crash.

Damn you server hamsters, damn you all to oblivion.

LeHarrt91

davey1107 wrote: »

I’m probably just cranky because I was in the middle of a very fun battle for nickel, and crashed...reloaded, got back into nickel...ten seconds, crash.

Damn you server hamsters, damn you all to oblivion.

Oh yeah, and then you think about all the AP and siege you lost and it makes you just want to farm mats because thats the only thing that wont make you freeze/ Crash.

rimmidimdim

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

Most people don't want them to be both at same time I think is the issue.

GawdSB

Sorcs only class that can stun and execute you from all the way across the map and they probably think it takes skill.

IZZEFlameLash

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and take millions in damage without running out of resources. When you have a range dps light armor class that is tankier than a stam dk, you have made serious errors in your game design.

You are hurting the game. You are making it difficult to draw new players in because you’ve given sorcs the ability to do things that YOU YOURSELF claimed were not in ESO’s interests. You said in an episode of eso live that you don’t want a one-shot combo class, but here it is. You said yourself in another episode that you don’t want a class that can sustain indefinitely, but here it is. You said you don’t want a class that can outperform heavy armor tanks, but here it is.

Stop messing up this game and nerf the GD Effing class.

(To be fair, I think they should get more dps, they’re just way too tanky)

Sorc is strong but if you see people getting 1v6'd by a Sorc, problem is them really. 6 people and they cannot even destroy Sorc shield fast enough? That really is on the 6.

usmguy1234

Been playing my stamplar a lot just to get perspective on how it feels to play against sorcs. To make a long story short, having a good purge is the only thing that kept me alive against the really good ones. I can see where some classes could really struggle. The handful of times I died to rune cage was because I over exerted my character and didn't have the stam to break free. Medium armor needs a purge which could be easily added to shuffle or get rid of the useless sneak passive.

caeliusstarbreaker

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

We prefer the term “stamplar”

MrDenimChicken

yeah theres a reason all the streamers went to sorc

MisterBigglesworth

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

Perhaps a little tighter controls from the devs to ensure there's no possible way to get all 4 categories (the 3 you mentioned, plus mobility) simultaneously, no matter how cleverly you build. Maybe a streakless Sorc who can sustain, tank, and burst? Or a Sorc even more mobile than the current Sorc, but they can't burst? etc.

Heimpai

I had a 2v1 against a sorc/stamblade the other day..rekt the stamblade then the sorc just spammed cc/rune cage etc till i was out of stamina.. I have no issues with sorcs but damn that was annoying..

IZZEFlameLash

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

We prefer the term “stamplar”

Poor Stamplars. Tried to play one this patch. But it was a train of frustration. Lol.

Beardimus

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

White wabbit

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

Or on the flip side finding out who wants to have an easy ride playing sorc by defending them

ChildOfLight

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

We prefer the term “stamplar”

Please. We prefer the term "stamdk"

Feanor

Heimpai wrote: »

I had a 2v1 against a sorc/stamblade the other day..rekt the stamblade then the sorc just spammed cc/rune cage etc till i was out of stamina.. I have no issues with sorcs but damn that was annoying..

That’s not Sorc specific. CC immunity is broken across the game.

Beardimus

White wabbit wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

Or on the flip side finding out who wants to have an easy ride playing sorc by defending them

Lol, roll one. Play one, show us how easy it is. Upload your Xv1 videos please.

Sorcs have been mediocre at best last two patches. Gain some damage on Cage and people lose their mind. I had better burst prior to Frag Nerfs.

I get it, people new to Cyrodiil need to learn to Counter Sorcs, and the band wagon is always there to jump on when they cant.

But regardless of Nerfs or buffs people moan. Prior to.the cage change they moaned despite Blades clearly being on top for 6 months. It's a default state and very boring.

As I say if they are god mode just roll one and decimate the field. Nope didn't think so.

Feanor

@Beardimus

I think it would be a lot easier to assess the relative strength if CC immunity and CC mechanics would actually work. Right now it’s so messed up that every CC is a death sentence in some scenarios.

I played my new Stamplar from level 10 to level 14 yesterday in 3 hours of Sotha Sil PvP. Rune Cage was the issue in only one of my 16 deaths.

White wabbit

Beardimus wrote: »

White wabbit wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

Or on the flip side finding out who wants to have an easy ride playing sorc by defending them

Lol, roll one. Play one, show us how easy it is. Upload your Xv1 videos please.

Sorcs have been mediocre at best last two patches. Gain some damage on Cage and people lose their mind. I had better burst prior to Frag Nerfs.

I get it, people new to Cyrodiil need to learn to Counter Sorcs, and the band wagon is always there to jump on when they cant.

But regardless of Nerfs or buffs people moan. Prior to.the cage change they moaned despite Blades clearly being on top for 6 months. It's a default state and very boring.

As I say if they are god mode just roll one and decimate the field. Nope didn't think so.

Your the one saying God mode my only issue is rune cage I didn't care about them before this and please upload a video showing us new people how to counter sorcs with rune cage

Ankael07

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

I'm a Sorc main since beta and I have to say the class is overtuned. The only excuse for Sorcerers having the best burst in the game was that it was easily predictable and avoidable. Crystal Frags is visible in the player's hands, Curse has 3.5 seconds timer and Meteor has both visual and sound cues before impact.

All of these counterplays goes out the window when Rune Cage comes in the scenario. It drops your block and stuns you through dodge, allowing the Sorc to execute the best burst with little effort. All of this from 41 meters away.

Now imagine the Sorcerer using Skoria or Caluurion. With Destructive Reach + Alchemy poisons its 4 different DOTs on the enemy ( 32% chance to proc Skoria per second) and Crushing Shock has exceptionally high chance to proc Caluurion ( 3 different direct hits means 3 times the player's crit chance )

Tonturri

Ankael07 wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

At least we are finding out all the new players in Cyrodiil / bad players each time a thread is started.

I'm a Sorc main since beta and I have to say the class is overtuned. The only excuse for Sorcerers having the best burst in the game was that it was easily predictable and avoidable. Crystal Frags is visible in the player's hands, Curse has 3.5 seconds timer and Meteor has both visual and sound cues before impact.

All of these counterplays goes out the window when Rune Cage comes in the scenario. It drops your block and stuns you through dodge, allowing the Sorc to execute the best burst with little effort. All of this from 41 meters away.

Now imagine the Sorcerer using Skoria or Caluurion. With Destructive Reach + Alchemy poisons its 4 different DOTs on the enemy ( 32% chance to proc Skoria per second) and Crushing Shock has exceptionally high chance to proc Caluurion ( 3 different direct hits means 3 times the player's crit chance )

I'm imagining a sorcerer who uses Reach and Cage atm. Also, sorcs don't do well with Caluurion unless they're up close, which is typically the place you see the least amount of (living) sorcs. This seems like a meme build you've brought up here- and none of these things in your last paragraph are sorc-specific (and some of them are even things sorcs don't synergize with well at all - see Cal).

Nobody complained about cage for a long time, but suddenly it gains some damage and everybody loses their minds. Most complaints I see involve the range and additional tooltip damage, too.

Cage definitely needs some tuning, but listing stuff like this in the same post doesn't help your case xD Especially since you finished your 2nd paragraph with a powerful 'all this from 41m away', and cal is ass at max range.

Sylosi

Sorc needs buffs, take rune cage for instance, max range is nice, but it only ignores dodges, reflects & blocks, now obviously I spend most of the time looking at my skillbar, so obviously sometimes when I use rune cage the person is CC immune (it is unfair to expect me to be aware of things like that), so in addition to it ignoring other defensive mechanics I feel it needs a buff so it ignores CC immunity so I always hit if I manage to aim vaguely in the right direction. ( I played Counterstrike once it made me cry, I am a good aimer in ESO, but I kept missing in CS, I think there must be something wrong with their game engine...)

I feel Mages Wrath & Implosion should be the model for skilled sorc gameplay, I like the way they do things automatically for me like not having to worry about exactly when someone's health gets into execute range, this is good this makes me a more skilled ESO player.

I am thinking with this level of skilled play ESO can go on to be an e-sport and dethrone DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc.

Beardimus

Sylosi wrote: »

Sorc needs buffs, take rune cage for instance, max range is nice, but it only ignores dodges, reflects & blocks, now obviously I spend most of the time looking at my skillbar, so obviously sometimes when I use rune cage the person is CC immune (it is unfair to expect me to be aware of things like that), so in addition to it ignoring other defensive mechanics I feel it needs a buff so it ignores CC immunity so I always hit if I manage to aim vaguely in the right direction. ( I played Counterstrike once it made me cry, I am a good aimer in ESO, but I kept missing in CS, I think there must be something wrong with their game engine...)

I feel Mages Wrath & Implosion should be the model for skilled sorc gameplay, I like the way they do things automatically for me like not having to worry about exactly when someone's health gets into execute range, this is good this makes me a more skilled ESO player.

I am thinking with this level of skilled play ESO can go on to be an e-sport and dethrone DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc.

Lol, so now Mages Wrath / Fury is the problem? I get confused with all the sorc hate is it Cage or Reach and with cage is it range or CC or that its broken to break free or damage or is it wards, are sorcs too mobile or too tanky or too wardy or is it Wrath or is it Overload or is it the pesky Pets or is it (enter Monster Helm / Weopon / Generic skill not class related) paired with Sorc awesomeness.

So would you prefer Mages Wrath & implosion to execute from 50% but be instant only? whats the answer to your Wrath annoyance?

DDuke

Beardimus wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Sorc needs buffs, take rune cage for instance, max range is nice, but it only ignores dodges, reflects & blocks, now obviously I spend most of the time looking at my skillbar, so obviously sometimes when I use rune cage the person is CC immune (it is unfair to expect me to be aware of things like that), so in addition to it ignoring other defensive mechanics I feel it needs a buff so it ignores CC immunity so I always hit if I manage to aim vaguely in the right direction. ( I played Counterstrike once it made me cry, I am a good aimer in ESO, but I kept missing in CS, I think there must be something wrong with their game engine...)

I feel Mages Wrath & Implosion should be the model for skilled sorc gameplay, I like the way they do things automatically for me like not having to worry about exactly when someone's health gets into execute range, this is good this makes me a more skilled ESO player.

I am thinking with this level of skilled play ESO can go on to be an e-sport and dethrone DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc.

Lol, so now Mages Wrath / Fury is the problem? I get confused with all the sorc hate is it Cage or Reach and with cage is it range or CC or that its broken to break free or damage or is it wards, are sorcs too mobile or too tanky or too wardy or is it Wrath or is it Overload or is it the pesky Pets or is it (enter Monster Helm / Weopon / Generic skill not class related) paired with Sorc awesomeness.

So would you prefer Mages Wrath & implosion to execute from 50% but be instant only? whats the answer to your Wrath annoyance?

Don't be confused.

The problem with RC is that the overall burst it guarantees will land exceeds the health pool of most non-tank builds.

Parts of that burst: RC damage itself, Meteor, Frag, Wrath, Curse, Light Attack, Weapon Enchant, (Implosion) etc etc.


Pick your poison.

If the overall damage of those>100% health pool of opponents & it requires absolutely no skill from sorcerer to land that Rune Cage, there's a problem.

White wabbit

DDuke wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Sylosi wrote: »

Sorc needs buffs, take rune cage for instance, max range is nice, but it only ignores dodges, reflects & blocks, now obviously I spend most of the time looking at my skillbar, so obviously sometimes when I use rune cage the person is CC immune (it is unfair to expect me to be aware of things like that), so in addition to it ignoring other defensive mechanics I feel it needs a buff so it ignores CC immunity so I always hit if I manage to aim vaguely in the right direction. ( I played Counterstrike once it made me cry, I am a good aimer in ESO, but I kept missing in CS, I think there must be something wrong with their game engine...)

I feel Mages Wrath & Implosion should be the model for skilled sorc gameplay, I like the way they do things automatically for me like not having to worry about exactly when someone's health gets into execute range, this is good this makes me a more skilled ESO player.

I am thinking with this level of skilled play ESO can go on to be an e-sport and dethrone DOTA 2, CS:GO, etc.

Lol, so now Mages Wrath / Fury is the problem? I get confused with all the sorc hate is it Cage or Reach and with cage is it range or CC or that its broken to break free or damage or is it wards, are sorcs too mobile or too tanky or too wardy or is it Wrath or is it Overload or is it the pesky Pets or is it (enter Monster Helm / Weopon / Generic skill not class related) paired with Sorc awesomeness.

So would you prefer Mages Wrath & implosion to execute from 50% but be instant only? whats the answer to your Wrath annoyance?

Don't be confused.

The problem with RC is that the overall burst it guarantees will land exceeds the health pool of most non-tank builds.

Parts of that burst: RC damage itself, Meteor, Frag, Wrath, Curse, Light Attack, Weapon Enchant, (Implosion) etc etc.


Pick your poison.

If the overall damage of those>100% health pool of opponents & it requires absolutely no skill from sorcerer to land that Rune Cage, there's a problem.

I applaud you great sir

Drakkdjinn

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

I want them to be excuse-making engines for forum lobbyists & apologists to practice the art of self-serving bollsheitery on.

Y’all need to learn another class.

Source: am sorc.

usmguy1234

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

So, you don't want sorcs to be oneshot wonders. You don't want them to be tanky. And you don't want them to sustain a fight.
What DO you want them to be? AP piñatas?

I want them to be excuse-making engines for forum lobbyists & apologists to practice the art of self-serving bollsheitery on.

Y’all need to learn another class.

Source: am sorc.

Torbschka

Well, I almost exclusively play the warden class since morrowind came out - both, magicka and Stamina. So of course I dont really have a Problem with magsorc and If I meet one open world and end in a 1v1 there wasnt any who would be able to kill me (no cp). I still see Problems with sorc though and I mained it, again stam and mag, until the warden class came out (im a shaman/druid Player).

IMO do one of the following to "nerf" rune Cage:

- Change it completely and give back frag stun (not really a dmg increase needed IMO, just the stun, since sorcs will have more bar space etc.)
- reduce the range to 20m with pvp buffs and leave the rest as it is
- let it break on dmg (would still benefit skilled sorcs which time it perfectly in 1v1 / 1vX, but the "zerg surfer" would actually grant free cc immunity to peeople already fifhting 5 other People)
- Change every other class into sorc

Honestly, I havent played a lot magicka sorcerer in the last year, but I do way better on my stamden than on my magicka sorcerer outnumbered, simply for the fact that roll dodge/LOS better defense than shields when facing multiple opponents. Nevertheless, I do see why People rage about sorcs, fighting 4 People and getting cc'ed by rune Cage from 4m away and getting insta nuked is frustrating, but so is getting stealth incaped by a nb coming along... If u run a medium armor build u are just *** actually. I just adapted my build to at least 27k hp and heavy armor, but I always kinda played like that and I can understand People just dont want to run heavy.

SilverWF

davey1107 wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel

I just watched a sorc 1v6 and

And that 6 (ALL OF THEM) was incredibly and stupidly bad! Even more, they are probably were 1-handed and tried to play with gamepads.
There is no reasons to even take care about this case.