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Elder Scrolls Online's business model sucks compared to Guild Wars 2 (the competition)

  • Olen_Mikko
    Olen_Mikko
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    As a player who has spend thousands of euros combined for both games, GW2 is easily more worth to my money.

    Both games have their pros and cons, but in overall, i do like GW2 more, now that WvW is bit more lively again.
    NB enthusiastic:
    1. Woodhippie stamblade - DW hard-hitter / PvE
    2. Know-it-all elf Magblade - Healer / PvE & PvP
    3. Hate-them-all elf Magblade - Destrostaff AoE monster / PvE
    4. Cyrodiil-Refugee stamblade - Stamina Tank / PvE

    Go dominion or go home

    Nightblade-Hipster. I played Nightblade before it was cool - from 1.5 onwards.
  • starkerealm
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    Sigtric wrote: »
    Lol in what world is GW2 any meaningful competition? To anyone? Have you seen their revenue figures?

    Not since they were posted in this thread. :p
  • WarMasterCyp
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    GW2 has redshell implemented on it though, they get their money by selling your data.
  • NeroBad
    NeroBad
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    I only play ESO I only watched GW2 in videos. I started to sub 3 month ago I played 1,5 years without it. I had more then ten millions of gold without it and spent it continously. Before Housing inventory management was easy if you had one crafter character, I even didn't have the Crown Merchant. After Housing, the incrreasing amount of materials made it harder but I managed without sub, and it was time consuming, but it was berable for me.

    After 2000 hours played I realised I'm enjoying this game with all its flaws I like the ingame economy, and I spend 80 hours playing a month so 11 EUR (half year sub) for 80 hours and an additional 20-30 EUR a year (I buy chapters at green man gaming) which goes down to +2EUR in a month totaling in 13EUR/month=0,16 EUR for an hour what I enjoy is good deal for me right now. I can buy all the DLC with the included Crowns (but I won't until I'm subbed) and there will be still some left to spend.

    Don't get me wrong there are some major flaws which have to be addresed, also the monetizing is getting more bold with each update. But for me the quality is also rising PVE/story wise, the art design in the new zones are super eyecandy.

    I can Imagine a future update where they will make me leave with my fiance (too many crown exclusive styles, bigger time locked login advertisement), but they can make ones which will make me to recruit more friends for the game (Battlegrounds in base game, more story DLC like Wrothgar CWC).

    So yes improvements are needed, the monetization need to slow-down (Im happy they make money but there are some limits), but overall you can play many hundreds of hous for 10EUR (every 3 month it is on sale), before considering to spend extra money. I get it GW2 is free to try but 10EUR for entry is not that much also (worse but not that much).
    Edited by NeroBad on July 17, 2018 8:37AM
  • GarnetFire17
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    I don't know much about GW2 nor care. But I do think its a good point about the craftbag. I have always been against it being behind the pay wall since inventory management is absolutely brutal without it. Its why I cringe every time I hear people say things like "ESO plus is so worth it because you get the craftbag" "Its worth it just for the craftbag alone." Its like being charged $15 a month not have your fun handicapped by constantly having to make room in your inventory or slowly check every little thing you could possibly pickup. The reason why people like it so much the inventory management is horrible without it. Let's be real. And that shouldn't be the case.
    Edited by GarnetFire17 on July 17, 2018 8:58AM
  • Sylosi
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    Bhaal5 wrote: »
    If guild wars 2 released on console, id leave eso in a heartbeat.
    For the sole reason of..... WvW
    Theirs just works, more engaging more competitive and not to mention a hell of a lot more stable.

    Well the performance is better in WvW, but that is about it.

    Competitively it is as dead as Cyrodil, the basic system is maybe even worse than Cyrodil in competitive terms, server stacking led to completely imbalanced matches that people were stuck for the week (or even months at a time for much of the game).

    Then the basic system of having 4 maps is just flat out bad as it escalates PvDoor and avoiding fights, it also lacks a mechanic like emperor to "encourage" people to fight, I can see why PvE players might prefer it, meanwhile I am in what is supposedly the "best" matchup in EU for fights this week and it mostly ranges from dead to *** poor.

    Combat, well that is largely subjective, I see the same nonsense in both games about "this game has the best combat in any game if only the devs...".

    Then there is balance, if people think that the balance is bad in ESO, then they have never played WvW in GW2, there are classes in that game that have been meta the entire game, others that are so subpar they will not be allowed to join squads (the entire game), they basically don't balance for it in any meaningful way, balance is for the instanced small team PvP and PvE raids.
    Edited by Sylosi on July 17, 2018 9:38AM
  • blnchk
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    Implementing deliberate inconveniences pertaining to inventory management just to make people pay for the Crafting Bag is asinine, sure.

    What you're blocking out is that the competition is called Inventory Wars 2 for a reason: You're showered with bags in bags in bags full of trash loot. The available storage for materials is limited and quickly hit. Their default bank space is meagre. And, as it happens, upgrades for both can be purchased via Gems.

    In addition, many QoL features, like storing all sorts of keys without them taking up precious inventory slots, are implemented by one or two passionate devs who may or may not work on them off-the-clock.

    In general, monetizing inventory space is, apparently and unfortunately, deemed too profitable to pass up. I, too, wish it weren't so.
  • NeroBad
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  • Aesthier
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    Better Stability in GW2?

    Yes GW2 definitely has better stability.


    Enjoyable PvP in GW2?

    I have eaten cardboard with more flavor.
  • ChuckyPayne
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    TL;DR
    My wife and me decided we'll leave ESO forever ~ month ago, but we are here again.

    Why did we go?
    My Wife: Crown store stuffs too expensive to us
    Me: As a crafter difficult to play without ESO+.

    Why did we come back?
    My Wife: Because of me, and because buy crown store gift form other players for gold is legal.
    Me: Gw2's combat system is frustrating me. I thought everything would be better now, but when I played GW2 I became much more nervous. GW2 is not developed to me.

    Since we come back, everything so quiet and calm. ESO's atmosphere built to us.

    Of course I don't argue about the virtues of the GW2
    - GW2 has the best update system in the game industry, and in the world. OMG that is amazing. 0 minute w8ing between patches. 2 build at once main servers and shadow servers, and shadow servers are ready players log out download new patch and play.
    - Achievement system much better like in ESO. (account wide achievements, pretty good achievement reward system, so much achievements, so much things to do if you like doing achievements). Because of achievement system main story repeatable and have some pretty cool task there too. 0 new content + achievement system = players play a lot of hours.
    - Mount system much better (Fluently moving, interesting system: mastery. Like in ESO the champion system but in GW2 horizontal development system and not only for exp, you need to do many thing to collect mastery point before spend on mastery skill trees)
    - Jump, move more fluent in GW2.
    - Mailing system is so good soo faaaast, no need log out or teleport to other zone to get mails.
    - Auction house system IMO much better like here. We need addons (in pc) to make usable the trade guilds. = slower game loading. In Gw2 soo fast and soo convenient.
    - Players can't "steal" materials from each others.
    - Map completer rewards
    - Many many mini games
    - Better wardrobe system
    - Better home instances (it makes sense to look around every day: chests, nodes)
    - Supported (in-game UI) gold <-> gem (like crown here)
    - So much zones since release.

    If I talked about GW2's advantege, here is the ESO's advantage
    - So quiet, so calm
    - Sooooo RPGish.
    - Casuals can play end-contents.
    - Much more dungeons
    - Housing system, decoration (but no real meaning)
    - Much easier earn gold.
    - Combat system give us time to response.


    I don't like in ESO
    Why so much crown store items and soo few new content? Pls hire more employe.
  • shaielzafine
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    GW2's living story is only "free" if you log in during the time it's released. So for example when I got started with GW2, I paid $100 for HoT & PoF deluxe expansions then another $30ish for living story season 2, $20ish for season 3 because I didn't log on. Then, you have to pay for unlimited use gathering tools ($30ish vs no cost in ESO), inventory slots, bank slots, expanding the crafting bag, etc. Costume dyes are free to apply, but you end up buying the dyes from the gem store and it's a gamble what you get for the little packs. There's also gambling in what mount skin you're going to get if you do the mounts scroll. The prices for costumes in that game is comparable, ESO's are a bit more. So really, I don't think GW2 is that insanely different from ESO in terms of monetizing.

    GW2 has amazing maps and a lot of pve if you're new. If you've done all the story quests, there's nothing to do afterwards since the end game is fashion wars. The time between living story episodes is more than 3 months and the map like the new one with the roller beetle episode is sometimes small, with not as fun world events. It feels like ESO has way more content. The little details in ESO also make it more immersive (ex. fully voiced npcs as you travel Tamriel vs heart quests), and to be honest the stories & details are much more fleshed out. It's too bad that ESO is much more buggy as well. I have never rage quit or taken a break from GW2 because the game was crashing, loadscreened or glitchy like in ESO. GW2's gem store is also less intrusive so you want to check out what's on sale, never seen any of those giant ads that we saw in ESO while logging in screaming to check out the crown store.
  • ezio45
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    Arobain wrote: »
    With 6 max level characters ready for raids in gw2 and 8 CP 690 characters here, I have to say that gw2 has go cut a *** load of corners to make the model work, you don't see the shortcuts made unless you played the game a LONG time like I did and observant, trust me gw2 isn't as goody 2 shoes as everyone thinks. ESO is hella more buggy but zeni doesn't cut corners

    is there a difference between cutting corners or not if they dont result in bugs? I dont play gw2 so I dont actually know what you mean by them cutting corners. However Ive played eso for a very long time and we never get content in a polished state. Seems like every single dlc breaks the game more, I dont even want to log in when wolfhunter drops if I even can lol Like ya the dungeon dlcs they dont usually screw up as much ***. Its still gunna be a laggy mess tho
  • Defilted
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    If you want to discuss successfull business model. Which company has made more money? If it is ESO then they have the better business model.

    XBOX NA
    XBOX Series X

    #NightmareBear
  • Kikke
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    a GW2 white knight seems too have gotten lost in the wrong forum section...

    GW2 Forums that way ---->



    Also, I cannot think that ZoS is all too happy in costumer poaching, as I went on a ESO forum, and suddenly found a GW2 add on front page... naaaaaah...

    Also. There is a reason ESO wins 'MMO of the year' awards year after year and GW2 not....
    Edited by Kikke on July 17, 2018 11:59AM
    Cleared Trials:
    - vAA HM - vHRC HM - vSO HM - vMoL HM - vHoF HM - vAS HM - vCR HM -

    "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step, and a lot of bitching."
    -Someone said it, I guess.
  • kalarro
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    I find the paying system of ESO quite good. Then again, I havent bought a single DLC, i just pay for ESO+.
    I dont see buying dlcs worth it. I subscribe, get all for free, AND 100% of the money spent back in crowns.
  • DanteYoda
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    Arobain wrote: »
    nickl413 wrote: »
    I saw a whole lot of "free free free" and not much explaining how the company plans to bring in a continuous flow of cash to support their game, in your thread that is "strictly about business model"

    Are the content releases and the loot boxes/crown store exclusives not enough to make this a success? They're nickeling and diming on everything short of pay2win and the benefit of getting double transmutation shards is toeing a dangerous line already. Do they really need to inconvenience the player so much when it comes to materials found around the world that they sell "convenience features" that are standard among the competition to the point that it's a massive inconvenience to anyone else that doesn't cough up the cash?

    When it comes to ESO+ in particular, at the very least they really need to address the fact that their most valuable customers who spend hundreds of dollars to buy the content outright are devaluing their membership every time they spend money on the content releases. Over the last year, I've spent $100+ on crowns, $100 on the Morrowind CE, $90 on the Summerset CE and I'm getting an experience comparable to a MMO with a poorly implemented f2p model. It sucks.
    Arobain wrote: »
    With 6 max level characters ready for raids in gw2 and 8 CP 690 characters here, I have to say that gw2 has go cut a *** load of corners to make the model work, you don't see the shortcuts made unless you played the game a LONG time like I did and observant, trust me gw2 isn't as goody 2 shoes as everyone thinks. ESO is hella more buggy but zeni doesn't cut corners

    What shortcuts are you referring to? I've taken an extensive look at their cash shop and all I see are net positives for Guild Wars 2 players. There are a lot of similar practices since the games themselves are very similar but I could go even further and talk about their implementation of loot boxes which are better too. They don't give duplicates and it costs far less to get the thing you actually want than it does to get the gem extractions out of a set of crown crates.

    the vast majority of all cosmetics for the non humanoid races are simply not there, they are ported from the humanoid races, and simply given the " that'll do " idea, siege in gw2 is handled by an action bar, not something dedicated, there are VERY few unique animations that only npcs have, as well as animation for npcs being generally poor anyways, any humanoid non player avatar no matter the size or any thing else, has the same animation moveset as the humanoid playable character, making for some awkward encounters especially if the humanoid enemy or ally is much larger than the regular avatar, there are alot of reused textures, nearly nonexistant housing. voice acting is also very limited as well, also the armor system in gw2 is much more basic, there are no unique proc sets and there arent very many options to begin with, with the gear, the only system that gw2 has, that is more complex than eso in any way, is the combat, and by damn is the combat good in gw2. you could say the cosmetic system is good, but thats only true if you play a humanoid race, charr and asura get the *** shaft

    ESO costs ALOT of *** more money to maintain compared to GW2, and even though GW2 costs alot less to maintain, the still have to cut alot of corners to make *** work, look at the first expansion, it was recieved pretty poorly by the fans, me included

    Female Asuras are even worse they only get male gears..
    Edited by DanteYoda on July 17, 2018 12:10PM
  • Dragonnord
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    GW2 is now probably looking at ZOS to learn how to do real business.

    ZOS just needs to fix some major bugs and issues, but all the rest is OK.
     
    SERVER: NA | PLATFORM: PC | OS: Windows 10 | CLIENT: Steam | ESO PLUS: Yes
  • Danikat
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    I play both and I like both, but I definitely feel like - for me - GW2 is better value for money. As long as I log in once every 2-3 months I get all the 'DLC' for free and just have to buy expansions every couple of years (assuming I want them, I'm not the type to blindly buy an expansion just because it's for a game I like, I want to know what's in it first) and cosmetic items if I want them.

    Whereas in ESO I'm buying expansions annually (again, assuming I want them) and cosmetics and DLC. Although the fact that most of the DLC is just dungeons has made that a lot cheaper for me. I don't mind dungeons but I don't play them often enough that it's worth buying more, so I'm down to just buying 1 DLC a year. But that's not really a great system for me or ZOS because it means I get less content and they get less money from me.
    Arobain wrote: »
    As usual, my actual experience gets ignored because people have a vendetta

    That might be because you didn't provide much detail, so it's difficult for anyone to comment on your experience.
    Arobain wrote: »
    With 6 max level characters ready for raids in gw2 and 8 CP 690 characters here, I have to say that gw2 has go cut a *** load of corners to make the model work, you don't see the shortcuts made unless you played the game a LONG time like I did and observant, trust me gw2 isn't as goody 2 shoes as everyone thinks. ESO is hella more buggy but zeni doesn't cut corners

    I'm in a similar situation - played GW2 since it came out and ESO since it went buy-to-play and I have max level characters in both - but I have no idea what you mean here. What corners are they cutting and what is the impact on players?
    Lake wrote: »
    Money-loving ZOS would never copy the business model of a "poorly" monetized game like GW2.

    This time last year, Guild Wars 2 hit all-time sales lows after endless quarter-to-quarter drops and was even below NCSoft's ancient Lineage I, Lineage II and Blade & Soul.

    YNSsJrr.jpg

    This year, Q1 2018, thanks to an expansion and monetization tricks like mount loot boxes, GW2 managed to bump up to 3rd place within NCSoft.

    U3F3GUv.jpg

    If GW2's revenue doesn't stay up, you can bet their consumer-friendly monetization will go out the window - especially considering how simple marketing additions like extra loot boxes helped boost revenue.

    Bear in mind though, saying a game isn't doing as well as Lineage is like saying it's not doing as well as World of Warcraft. In spite of not being well known in Western countries (I don't think it was ever even released in Europe) Lineage is one of the most successful Asian MMOs.

    Also maybe I'm being naive but I've always gotten the impression that GW2's developers were never trying to make as much money as possible, just enough to keep making the game they want to make. (I hope that's the case, otherwise the companies founders must be kicking themselves for quitting Blizzard during the development of WoW.)
    Arreyanne wrote: »
    wasn't the first expansion for GW2 when you bought it you also had to pay for a copy of the original game? Whether you owned the original game or not IIRC that first expansion was like 59.99?

    Just asking nvr bought it and probably nvr will

    According to GW2's developers $59.99 was the price for the expansion and the base game was included for free (which is why they released a free to play version at the same time). Kind of like how Morrowind was included with Summerset pre-orders - you weren't paying for Morrowind as well as Summerset and the price didn't go down when they stopped including it - it was a freebie.

    But the way the original announcement was worded did make a lot of people think they were being charged for the base game - including me. I kept re-reading the announcement, the online store and the forum trying to work out how to buy just the expansion until they clarified that it'd cost the same either way. I didn't mind paying that once I understood but it was very badly worded and confusing and I didn't want to pay for something I didn't need if there was another option.
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    dungeons were literally removed,

    I know it's a very minor point, but misuse of the word literally is one of my pet hates so I'm going to comment on it. Dungeons were not literally removed - they're all still in the game, fully playable, and they've added more mini dungeons (Fractals) and started making raids.

    What they did was cap the gold you could earn from dungeons each day and offer new ways to get precursor weapons (which previously were mainly obtained by buying exotics with dungeon tokens to throw into the Mystic Forge) which also dropped the price on precursors.

    Apparently a lot of the hardcore dungeon crowd who loved doing "difficult" group content (if you can call GW2 dungeons difficult) actually didn't care about that at all. What they loved was an easy way to grind gold so as soon as it was no longer the most profitable option they dropped it like a hot rock and went to grind other things instead, mainly open-world events.
    Costume dyes are free to apply, but you end up buying the dyes from the gem store and it's a gamble what you get for the little packs.

    You know GW2 dyes are tradable right? If you want a specific dye, or just don't like to gamble, you can buy them from the Trading Post. Some of them are expensive, but there's usually cheaper options which are very similar, and IMO any price for a direct sale is better than gambling.
    PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!

    "Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"
  • Linaleah
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    GW2 costume dying is not actualy free. you need a special consumable. now.. if you play GW2 like me, sporadically and don't change costumes much once you get an outfit set - you are going to end up sitting on a lot of that consumable. but if you want to change outfits the way i tend to in ESO? (AE almost daily) that consumable is depleted very quickly and guess where you have to get more other then very occasional log in reward? that's right. cash shop. oh and other then basic set of dyes, all the other dyes have to be bought. oh sure, once they are unlocked, they are unlocked forever JUST LIKE IN ESO... but you don't get to unlock them via achievements. I mean... you can sorta craft random ones. but not the best looking rarest ones. and you never know what you are going to get out of the other ones, I have gone through random dyes giving me the same couple of dyes I already unlocked... over.. and over...

    but speaking of log in rewards, that's one of the things I like better in GW2. login rewards just carry over, you do not lose any, just because you didn't log in for couple of weeks.

    aside from that... i prefer level scaling in ESO to the one in GW2. why? because in GW2, it only truly becomes "go anywhere, at any time" if you boost your character leveling as it scales you DOWN to the zone level. yeah, sure its nice to have your materials instanced. but there is also 1. soft cap as for how long you can farm before they stop respawning for you for a while (and i believe its something small, like half an hour of zone farming, so you have to keep moving to other zones) and as it was mentioned above... you hit your craft bag limits very quickly anyways, without much to show for it. you know how 160 cp gear costs 10 as much to craft as 150 cp or lower? EVERYTHING costs that much or more to craft in GW2. this is how they compensate for materials being instanced. by making everything require a lot more materials.

    GW2 has its perks and honestly, it has a very different vibe to it from ESO. but... it has its issues too. it honestly feels like grass is greener syndrome.
    dirty worthless casual.
    Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
    Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"
  • Azyle1
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    Grass is always greener, blah, blah, blah.

    I like GW2 a lot actually. But... ESO is more fun. It has it's share of issues, but the game is still doing remarkably well and frankly, every MMO fanbase has topics that complain about it. I would be willing to bet other people from other games say, "ESO is a better game than 'X' game I am playing".

  • AlexanderDeLarge
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    Azyle1 wrote: »
    Grass is always greener, blah, blah, blah.

    I like GW2 a lot actually. But... ESO is more fun. It has it's share of issues, but the game is still doing remarkably well and frankly, every MMO fanbase has topics that complain about it. I would be willing to bet other people from other games say, "ESO is a better game than 'X' game I am playing".

    Except the grass actually is greener on the other side when it comes to their monetization. Their game is cheaper, more accessible to newcomers and fairer by many metrics. I'm not commenting on the game at all. People can make up their own minds about that.
    Edited by AlexanderDeLarge on July 17, 2018 1:40PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 7 paid expansions. 22 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the vast majority of this game.

    "ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying
  • Katahdin
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    I played GW1 for 6 years and GW2 from beta until HoT.

    I find that the main story in GW2 is very shallow. ESO's story by comparison is deep and rich in detail. ESO's story reminds me more of GW1's story than GW2 ever did.

    They ruined the game and betrayed their loyal fan base with HoT. Needing to repeat the same fetch/grab quest 10 times to get to the next story step then needing a raid to progress in the game and complete the map killed it for me.

    They also killed my favorite class (warrior) in pvp, reducing it to nothing more than a resurrect bot for the crown.

    I left shortly after HoT released from boredom and frustration and have not gone back, partly due to the pay to catch up for living story and needing a raid to get through the maps.

    The living story isnt all its cracked up to be either. As soon as the new chapter released, you had to rush to complete it on all your characters or you missed out on achievements and rewards and the characters sometimes were blocked from progressing if you didn't finish. God forbid you were on vacation or had real life issues, you were just screwed.

    A lot of people were mad and there was a mass exodous with HoT. The loyal fan base felt betrayed bythe monumental change that went against everything GW was built on.
    They scrambled to fix it (they didn't do that well) and released PoF faster than intended just to try and keep what was left. Mounts were added as an apeasement to again keep the few left. The game doesn't need them but the crybabies couldn't live without them.

    ANet shot themselves in the foot and Zos would do well to learn from their example

    Edited by Katahdin on July 17, 2018 2:13PM
    Beta tester November 2013
  • Darcwolf
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    Are you kidding me? Living world is crap, they pop out 1-2 hours worth of content every 3-4 months. Yeah I'll give you the crafting bag, but gw2 content is crap.
  • ZOS_JesC
    ZOS_JesC
    admin
    Greetings, we've removed several inappropriate and off topic comments. While it is fine to discuss other games, it needs to remain in the context of comparison to ESO in order to remain on the ESO forums. Please keep comments on topic, otherwise we will need to close the thread. Thank you.
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  • Darcwolf
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    The reason I'm here over Guild Wars 2.....gamepad support.
    I really can't play games without decent gamepad support anymore.

    I would leave this game in a heartbeat if there was a game with gamepad support that had as good a world and easily better combat(simpler, less gimmick rock/paper/scissors with more real strategy and positioning).

    Not sure how high your standards are, but Xpadder makes games like GW2 and WoW perfectly playable with a controller, as long as you don't mind still using KB&M for everything besides combat. Been playing them for years that way - and ESO too, since 2013 beta - can't even imagine all the experiences I would've missed out on due to my aversion to KB&M for the really long play sessions characteristic of most MMOs. I made an Xpadder profile so I could comfortably tank in Wrath of the Lich King and never looked back.

    I can't stand joystick mouse emulation; it just doesn't work right as the analog variability of the stick is lost. I pretty much need it to work for as much as possible too.

    I disagree, I use joystix pro for gw2, works great.
  • AlexanderDeLarge
    AlexanderDeLarge
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    Darcwolf wrote: »
    Are you kidding me? Living world is crap, they pop out 1-2 hours worth of content every 3-4 months. Yeah I'll give you the crafting bag, but gw2 content is crap.

    When's the last time you played the living world stuff? The new zones are definitely more than 1-2 hours of content. They're bigger than many of ESO's paid expansion DLCs and if were to combine two, they'd be more substantial than ESO's chapters being sold at retail once a year.

    Seasons 1 and 2 were disappointments but 3 and 4 really stepped it up. S2 added my favorite area in the game (Silverwaste) so I gotta mention that at least. S3 added six episodes with all new mechanics for each one, six new zones (comparable to ESO's PVE DLCs), two raids, three fractals and five side stories.

    S4 is up to episode three as of last week and they've added three episodes with all new mechanics for each one, three new zones (bigger than many of ESO's PVE DLCs), a new raid, two fractals and the roller beetle.
    https://youtu.be/ax0q7tuc-JE

    All of this stuff is free as long as you're logging in once every three months.
    Edited by AlexanderDeLarge on July 17, 2018 2:14PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 7 paid expansions. 22 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the vast majority of this game.

    "ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying
  • SilverWF
    SilverWF
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    Lake wrote: »
    Money-loving ZOS would never copy the business model of a "poorly" monetized game like GW2.

    This time last year, Guild Wars 2 hit all-time sales lows after endless quarter-to-quarter drops and was even below NCSoft's ancient Lineage I, Lineage II and Blade & Soul.

    YNSsJrr.jpg

    This year, Q1 2018, thanks to an expansion and monetization tricks like mount loot boxes, GW2 managed to bump up to 3rd place within NCSoft.

    U3F3GUv.jpg

    If GW2's revenue doesn't stay up, you can bet their consumer-friendly monetization will go out the window - especially considering how simple marketing additions like extra loot boxes helped boost revenue.

    Where is ESO here, please?
    • PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
    • YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
    • EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
    • Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
  • AlexanderDeLarge
    AlexanderDeLarge
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    Lake wrote: »
    Money-loving ZOS would never copy the business model of a "poorly" monetized game like GW2.

    This time last year, Guild Wars 2 hit all-time sales lows after endless quarter-to-quarter drops and was even below NCSoft's ancient Lineage I, Lineage II and Blade & Soul.

    This year, Q1 2018, thanks to an expansion and monetization tricks like mount loot boxes, GW2 managed to bump up to 3rd place within NCSoft.

    If GW2's revenue doesn't stay up, you can bet their consumer-friendly monetization will go out the window - especially considering how simple marketing additions like extra loot boxes helped boost revenue.

    This post is also missing important context that Heart of Thorns launched in a poor technical state, was overpriced for what it offered at launch, was far too "hardcore" for players. The beta was obscenely difficult. We're talking Vanilla World of Warcraft raid difficulty in the open world PVE content for everyone to the point where people were cancelling their pre-orders and the community largely views it as a giant misstep for the game and it took Path of Fire where you start seeing an improvement to get things on track.

    That being said, I'm sure Guild Wars 2 will under perform against many of NCSoft's other games but is that supposed to be surprising when their games exploit whales and some of them even go pay2win? It's ZOS' job to find a business model that is competitive with the competition, fair to players and sustainable and unfortunately they haven't found that balance. Even when I see others recommending the game, it comes with the caveat of the technical issues, weightless combat, ESO+ membership "pay4convenience" and the scummy handling of the crown crates.
    Edited by AlexanderDeLarge on July 17, 2018 2:30PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 7 paid expansions. 22 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the vast majority of this game.

    "ESO doesn't need a harder overland" on YouTube for a video of a naked level 3 character AFKing in front of a bear for a minute and a half before dying
  • sadownik
    sadownik
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    Linaleah wrote: »
    GW2 costume dying is not actualy free. you need a special consumable. now.. if you play GW2 like me, sporadically and don't change costumes much once you get an outfit set - you are going to end up sitting on a lot of that consumable. but if you want to change outfits the way i tend to in ESO? (AE almost daily) that consumable is depleted very quickly and guess where you have to get more other then very occasional log in reward? that's right. cash shop. oh and other then basic set of dyes, all the other dyes have to be bought. oh sure, once they are unlocked, they are unlocked forever JUST LIKE IN ESO... but you don't get to unlock them via achievements. I mean... you can sorta craft random ones. but not the best looking rarest ones. and you never know what you are going to get out of the other ones, I have gone through random dyes giving me the same couple of dyes I already unlocked... over.. and over...

    but speaking of log in rewards, that's one of the things I like better in GW2. login rewards just carry over, you do not lose any, just because you didn't log in for couple of weeks.

    aside from that... i prefer level scaling in ESO to the one in GW2. why? because in GW2, it only truly becomes "go anywhere, at any time" if you boost your character leveling as it scales you DOWN to the zone level. yeah, sure its nice to have your materials instanced. but there is also 1. soft cap as for how long you can farm before they stop respawning for you for a while (and i believe its something small, like half an hour of zone farming, so you have to keep moving to other zones) and as it was mentioned above... you hit your craft bag limits very quickly anyways, without much to show for it. you know how 160 cp gear costs 10 as much to craft as 150 cp or lower? EVERYTHING costs that much or more to craft in GW2. this is how they compensate for materials being instanced. by making everything require a lot more materials.

    GW2 has its perks and honestly, it has a very different vibe to it from ESO. but... it has its issues too. it honestly feels like grass is greener syndrome.

    Nope, you are talking about skin changing, dyes are free and for armor gliders and mounts
  • griffkhalifa
    griffkhalifa
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    Basically all you said in this thread is that you want to pay less to play ESO. You say GW2 (which I've never played) has a better business model...except you don't define what having a better business model is. Is it just that it's cheaper for the consumer? That isn't a better business model because the game will die out due to lack of funds to support it. Based on the graph that another user presented, that's exactly what is going to happen. So I think all you really did was point out that ESO actually has a better business model. If it's not worth it to you to pay what ESO charges, don't play.
    PS4 NA
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