Which class is overpowered in overall performance?

arkansas_ESO · July 2018

Anything stam tbh. At this point in the game the distinction between classes is which one has a better way to buff your bleeds and keep up your Sloads proc and not much else.

nemvar wrote: »

ItsNebula wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Ask yourself, when has magicka sorc ever been bad?
Magsorcs have only been nerfed and rarely buffed and it's always been good.

When have NB's ever been bad? Never, as long as youve had at least 1 second of PvP experience.

1.0-1.6 after that they became gods among men.

Magic NBs were gods amongst men from 1.3-1.5

TheRealSniker · July 2018

Sorcerer

Tonturri wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Tonturri wrote: »

They're OP more because ZOS has been ripping on the other classes for so long, more often, and harder than they've been ripping on NB. This has resulted in NBs being a more complete class than any of the others - not only in general are their <class things> more useful, but they can actually use more of their <class things> than most other classes.

TheRealSniker wrote: »

I Like how people pick whatever class they dont like and say "Oh yes them cause they have good skills and good passives", Please explain why as I did

But nearly all of your points are totally incorrect.

Then tell me where im incorrect, im playing a magsorc myself and am way more successfull than on my Nightblade this patch.
I will happily tell you how wrong you are

Certainly Also mind, I just mentioned that and waited because I didn't want to clog the thread that much and hijack it into a 'nerf sorc, don't nerf sorc', but since you ask...:D

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Easy to pull of the finisher combo, Streak is by far one of the best escape tools in 1vX situations doesnt matter if its Stam or Mag
How is Curse -> Fury -> Meteor -> Maybe a spammable -> Rune Prison -> Frags -> exeute again if need be any different than Stealth -> Incap/SA -> SA -> SA -> Impale/Execute, or LA X5 weave with Funnel -> Meteor -> gap close -> fear -> will? Or Fissure -> CC(clench) -> Birb, birb, maybe bear attack, or Sub Assault -> Dizzing Swing/DMG skill + CC -> Dawnbreaker -> Execute? Or Meteor -> Petrify?

It's really not. Sorc actually has a longer setup than most other classes, but for some reason are called out for it. Also, it's also where most of their damage comes from - sorcs have godawful sustained pressure.

I have bad news for you, if you think that Nightblades have a Combo then you are possibly not a very good player, the fact that you posted that you play magblade since vet ranks existed is horrifying , as a Nightblade you have to adapt to the situation and use small Windows to burst your Target down, a Sorc has a set amount of delayed skills(including execute) that you can pop from range and annihilate a Player making up for a combo.

Streak has been nerfed into Oblivion - you only escape from people who have no idea what they're doing or it for whatever reason you're in a good position/they're in a bad one and you can get into LoS with only a streak or two (so, bgs, but not too applicable in most of Cyro). It has a stacking cost, short delay before casting (heavens knows why), extremely short distance, no momentum, and it can even psuedo-stun the caster when you use it on terrain that isn't absolutely PERFECT because you'll be unable to cast while you fall a couple feet to the ground. Streak is one of the WORST escape tools. And yes, it matters if it's mag or stam - stamina suffers from the stacking cost far more from mag setups.

Think about LoS when using Streak and you are a god, the fact that most decent players dont run gapclosers these days make Streak even better. How can you say that Streak is one of the worst Escape tools IF streak makes MagSorcs the 2nd best Solo class? Are you stupid?

An very Easy to pick up class in PvE and PvP You can say this about any class. ESO in general isn't the hardest game ever to come out. Also, pve DPS doesn't vary too terribly much - spammable, wall of ele, class DoT(s), w/e. Spamming Funnel Health is in no way more difficult than spamming Force Pulse.

Shields make you resistant to crits and penetration mechanics making light armor optimal
You get 100% pen against shields already, which is actually a GOOD thing because it's much more difficult to 100% penetrate someone's armor these days, especially for stamina builds. Making shields penetrable (and therefore benefitting from armor res) would actually be a massive buff, again especially against stamina users.

Pretty much the same for critting. You can't crit against the shields, but trust me, you do NOT want to be able to crit against that shield and in doing so allow the shield to be crit. You will not come out ahead.

Also, these mechanics make light armor the ONLY option. If I ran heavy armor, the extra res wouldn't even work on the shields.

Now Compare it to Heals that Stamina users have, vigor Ticks for 1000 Healing per second, can be reduces by Defiles, by using Vigor we can still be critted

MagSorcs Pop 2 Shields that give you 22k extra Health that cannot be critted... An Additional 15k one if theyre low on Health, that isnt an Ultimate, thats an ability that can be spammed.

So you get

You dont have to worry about Resistances or Impen on a magsorc Only if your opponent has no chance of actually getting through your shields - in which case they're just awful and nothing really matters. Against a competent opponent where your shields WILL go down and you will take regular health damage, you most certainly do need to worry about res and impen, else you'll be ripped apart once your shields go down.

Shieldstacking makes you able to stack well fitted on your armor which leads to you being able to dodge roll sometimes more times than stamina characters I'm not sure what to say here other than that this is wrong. If you see a sorc rolling more than a stamina character then something has gone horribly wrong with the stam person. Im my experience, the well-fitted deal is more the result of extra CP and being able to put CP into reducing dodge roll cost without sacrifiing in other areas. This is not a sorc specific thing.

Healing Ward and Resto Ult make MagSorcs almost unkillable when they dont want to die, executes are useless against a MagSorc Healing Ward and resto ult are not sorc specific. ANyone can use them. ALso, executes function the same against magsorcs as they do any other class, and in fact magsorcs suffer more from executes due to their dependance upon Healing Ward (or Surge/Muta if they have it slotted) to get them out of execute range. THey recover slower.

Overall every skill tooltip is very High on a Sustain based build, 15k frags, 13k Curse, 16k Meteors High meteor damage is not a sorc specific thing. Also have you seen the bursts some other classes can deal? THem's rookie numbers. Deep Fissure/Sub Assault can easily have the same or higher tooltip than frags and curse, as can Dizzying Swing. Also, this brings it back around to sorc's lack of sustained damage. Personally I'd rather have a sorc throwing frags at me every once in a while if it's between that and a NB with a massive Surprise Attack tooltip.

Dark Deal makes stacking Stamina on a Magicka character even better, practically endless Magicka pool if you use it right, free heals and on top of it you only have to run minimal recoveries You cannot sustain Dark Deal unless you run a certain amount of stamina sustain - you say 'minimal recoveries' but this is usually done by using shacklebreaker or amber plasm. Certainly not 'minimal'. Also, make up your mind - are sorcs running minimal sustain or do we have high tooltips on a sustain build? It's certainly not both. Or are you just complaining that we have hard hitting skills to compensate for that we have little to nil pressure dmg?

Magicka gets 2 automatic executes which makes execute range predicting not existant, aka takes no skill The sorc execute skill has a lower health threshold and lower damage than other executes. It's also predictable (by golly what do you think that sorc is gonna do if you see a lightning bolt and a curse from him? Count to three and see what happens!).

I agree Implosion is bad. Sorcs in general have been trying to get rid of it for ages. It's RNG, so it's ridiculously OP if it procs, buuuut...it doesn't often proc, and in those cases - which is most of them - it's wasted. ANd if you were below 15% health and taking dmg you were probably gonna die anyway - Implosion just saved the sorc a GCD But still, I do agree Implosion needs to go. Give us something consistant.

Hurricane is a built in anti-nightblade tool, makes Stamina characters even faster and therefor even better in open world
Curse ticks in Cloak and Stacks, only good players can predict when Curse will Tick
Shade i a built-in anti-counterplay tool. Your requirement to be a good player seem extremely low here, as predicting Curse booms requires only that you be able to count to 3 and 8.

Delayed abilities like Meteor and Curse make for insane Burst and Pressure in Duels
Meteor isn't sorc specific. Also, this is a class design - sorc lacks in sustained damage (so now, those odn't make for 'insane pressure', but it does make for big burst, because how else are they gonna kill you?

Rune Cage can make those delayed abilities uncounterable, especially when its used against Stamina Players Are you aware that Fear, Petrify and until rather recently (RIP) Fisure stun existed?

Most Classes dont have enough burst Damage to even kill a good MagSorc Then why am I dying in BGs? This seems to be your opinion backed up by incomplete personal experience. Only bad players have trouble killing sorcs. I shall explain why this is.

Shields are AMAZING if your opponent is under a certain level of damage output (aka if they're just bad). However, as incoming damage increases (your opponent gets better and better) they become more and more lackluster.

That nightblade spamming SA on me isn't gonna get anywhere. That isn't a lack of burst damage, that's a lack of player skill. If that nightblade starts to weave in LAs with his SA, okay we're getting there, but not quite...Okay, he's applied a couple of DoTs (rending slashes or poison arrow, axe bleed). Okay now we're getting somewhere.

Other classes also have options. Their failure to utilize them is on the player, not the class.

Actually in Duel Tournaments, Magsorc vs Magsorc matchups are either banned or reduced to no Shieldstacking cause of their immense survavibility Insofar as I remember (I'm in the Legend discord), Harness in magsorc v magsorc matchups was banned primarily (or only?) due to the magicka return on Harness and the massive amount of sustain it gave.

Pets make for natural LoS and give huge advantage in Duels Fair point, pets are extremely wonky - they screw up a lot i na lot of scenarios and are extremely weak in those scenarios, but they shine in duels. Still, pets have their own drawbacks - I will go into them if you like.

Skills as Negate and Encase make for great Group utilities Sorcs have wobbled across the line between 'negate monkey' and 'negate monkey who can also possibly do other things if we're desperate' for a long time. The utility Encase brings to the table is not unique to sorcs - DK talons, warden gripping -> Impaling shards, Bombard, Destro Wall on chilled opponent...Encase is just. There. In no way does it make sorc OP in group support - it makes them not godawful. And negate is the only other group support skill we have, and it doesn't even work on stam builds.

Gank Builds are possible due to MagSorcs Overload hitting up to 16k on an Impen stacking Target Your language is off here. Magsorcs gank with overload hits. What makes the massive damage possible are a number of factor totally unrelated to Overload and sorcs - Elegant armor, the Empower change, and so forth. I gueeesss there's the whole Bound Armor thin that gives LA a dmg increase, but..that's using a stam utility on a magbuild. *shrug* You say it like it's the fault of overload, and it's not - changes should be made to the thing working on overload, but overload without them is fine, even weak in a lot of cases.

In summary, magsorcs are godly against people who aren't very good, but struggles as your opponent's skill increases. They're a one dimensional class. If you judge success with a magsorc by how many killing blows you snag with your execute or how many times you kill someone in one go with a curse/frags/rune/meteor/whatever, then they look strong, but in reality you're just mowing down bads or making use of scoring mechanisms to look like you're more useful than you actually are.

Sincerely,
A magsorc and magnb player since vet ranks were a thing

ItsNebula wrote: »

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Easy to pull of the finisher combo, Streak is by far one of the best escape tools in 1vX situations doesnt matter if its Stam or Mag
An very Easy to pick up class in PvE and PvP
Shields make you resistant to crits and penetration mechanics making light armor optimal
You dont have to worry about Resistances or Impen on a magsorc
Shieldstacking makes you able to stack well fitted on your armor which leads to you being able to dodge roll sometimes more times than stamina characters
Healing Ward and Resto Ult make MagSorcs almost unkillable when they dont want to die, executes are useless against a MagSorc
Overall every skill tooltip is very High on a Sustain based build, 15k frags, 13k Curse, 16k Meteors
Dark Deal makes stacking Stamina on a Magicka character even better, practically endless Magicka pool if you use it right, free heals and on top of it you only have to run minimal recoveries
Magicka gets 2 automatic executes which makes execute range predicting not existant, aka takes no skill
Hurricane is a built in anti-nightblade tool, makes Stamina characters even faster and therefor even better in open world
Curse ticks in Cloak and Stacks, only good players can predict when Curse will Tick
Delayed abilities like Meteor and Curse make for insane Burst and Pressure in Duels
Rune Cage can make those delayed abilities uncounterable, especially when its used against Stamina Players
Most Classes dont have enough burst Damage to even kill a good MagSorc
Actually in Duel Tournaments, Magsorc vs Magsorc matchups are either banned or reduced to no Shieldstacking cause of their immense survavibility
Pets make for natural LoS and give huge advantage in Duels
Skills as Negate and Encase make for great Group utilities
Gank Builds are possible due to MagSorcs Overload hitting up to 16k on an Impen stacking Target

looks like to me a gank build, looks like to me your unbuffed, or just bad...
so those numbers fit perfectly, as that player will also die to a good player in 1-2 shots

Its not my Screenshot, the Screenshot taken by a Ganker who ganked a Streamer whose name I wont reveal, the Streamer was playing a magsorc, the gank broke throught both of his shields and killing him

Drdeath20 · July 2018

Nightblade - for you pitchfork folks

1 skill is beyond broken on a sorc. Nightblades have soo many overtuned skills. Spammable invisibility, best ultimate in the game and front loaded burst.

ItsNebula · July 2018

Nightblade - for you pitchfork folks

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In the right hands, NB is the most potent class. It is also the best designed class across the board. They have skills for just about everything you can think of IMO, NBs should be the model for ZOS to bring other classes up to scratch.

I am not surprised Sorc is the poll favorite. They have a skill (maybe 2) that need looked at for sure, but the class is like a house of cards. Probably the least flexible in terms of play style and if one or two skills were removed, it would fall apart. They excel in a few areas for sure. They are certainly the best class both for killing and being played by newer players.

In really good hands, I would rank them: NB>Warden>Sorc>DK=Templar.

In Medicore hands, I would rate them:
Sorc>Warden>NB> DK=Templar

Edit: also just realized this poll is a little misleading. Why are there 2 NB categories, makes it look like the poll is saying sorcs, but it really isn’t.

I would have to disagree with the new player part.
MagSorc imo is a class thats easy to learn, hard to master.

Solo MagSorc is by far the worst (1vX wise), but in groups its pretty damn good.
A lot of new players on MagSorc, even with full shields up, my MagSorc can still kill with a 3-4 skill burst combo. Even on my alts.
A lot of new players just dont know how to build shields, while having really good damage.
Thats where the "Hard to master" part comes in. Learning how to sustain resources, have really high damage, and having really high shields to keep you alive. (Ofc other small factors too like when to burst, when to streak, LoSing etc)

Mr_Nobody · July 2018

Nightblade

Nbs have been #1 since 1.6 ~

Both PvE Dps, Group PvP perspective, Solo PvP perspective, Decent healers too. Says enough.

Raammzzaa · July 2018

Warden

So sorcs win for most OP, according to this poll... Nice! I haven’t played mine in a minute and I’ve been thinking about taking him out for a spin.

Datthaw · July 2018

Sorcerer

It's sorcs, magsorc are tanking small groups and then bursting them down, stamsorc are the bane of towers can't ever kill them because they are so damn fast and run away while healing. What is it 1 swift and they at speed cap? Sorcs are strong at the moment

Datthaw · July 2018

Sorcerer

Myux wrote: »

nerf magblade so i can go back to being the only one pls i hate knowing other people exist that play my class

You're gonna have to kill me to stop playing magnb. You will always be better than me so that's a victory in its own.

Lizard Wizards for life