Don't waste your time on class balance talks

BohnT

During the last 'big' 'balance patch' (oh my i can't believe i'm saying this, well at least that's what we've heard before we got it )
Gina said that there won't be any further class balance changes and she also said this:
As far as the PTS class feedback threads, these do prove to be useful to have everything centralized in a single thread. In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/5118127#Comment_5118127

what this means for you, everything class balance related will be exactly how we see it now, it won't Change, Nothing will happen no matter how bad the changes are.
so just a reminder to Prevent you from getting banned when Talking About balance changes and emotions start to enrage.

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME do something else, anything else try to cut down the mightiest tree in the forest with a hering that time is better spend than Talking About class balance changes

VaranisArano

BohnT

VaranisArano wrote: »

thank you couldn't find it anywhere

usmcjdking

I honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

There were some seriously good balance changes here. Magden kinda got left out, but otherwise all the other changes look really good - chisel instead of sledgehammer.

BohnT

usmcjdking wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

There were some seriously good balance changes here. Magden kinda got left out, but otherwise all the other changes look really good - chisel instead of sledgehammer.

look at the pain Points brought up by the community reps, then look back at the patch notes, now look back at the class rep post, back to the patch notes.
What did you notice?

Cenom

Lol. They said absolutely the opposite in the Live stream, that they made just a couple small changes considering the time they had to work with it.

The big class balance is just once a year, during chapter releases... But since they created this new system to get feedback, they might do incremental updates to some big problems.

BigBadVolk

Class balance is the equal of World Peace in the gaming industry so tbh always expect the worst you never gonna get dissapointed, there is always a bigger fish and such things

BohnT

Cenom wrote: »

Lol. They said absolutely the opposite in the Live stream, that they made just a couple small changes considering the time they had to work with it.

The big class balance is just once a year, during chapter releases... But since they created this new system to get feedback, they might do incremental updates to some big problems.

so where was it this year?
had to take a big Dump and didn't made it, got lost in the forest or something?

LostSync

DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME Commenting on this thread cuz the comment made by gina was for the summerset patch not this one, Like look at the date (May 7) before u start complaining

Tryxus

usmcjdking wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

There were some seriously good balance changes here. Magden kinda got left out, but otherwise all the other changes look really good - chisel instead of sledgehammer.

MagDen always gets left out lol

BohnT

LostSync wrote: »

Lol DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME Commenting on this thread cuz as u probably didin't guest it its a Troll, the comment made by gina was for the summerset patch not this one, Like look at the date (May 7) before u start complaining

I'll just Highlight the important thing just for you as you don't seem to be a bright one:
In the future, though, we're talking about limiting these threads to the updates where we plan to actively make changes to class abilities to better set expectations.

So do you see any threads about sorcs, nbs, DKs, Templars or warden?

I'm sure you are able to tell what this means

_Salty_

Agree with OP. I was hoping to see some changes to sorc passives to compliment stamsorcs but stamsorcs got nothing Ziltch Zero Notta. Not one freakin bone. The class is exactly the same.



Befoul CP should be deleted or moved to the blue tree.

duroks needs a 5 second cooldown.

Sloads needs to not stack.

Rune cage needs its range reduced and be reliably broken.

Cyrodiils ward mount speed was nerfed for Talos knows why.

I dont get it anymore. Zos is lucky that there is zero competition for MMos on console.

MaxwellC

@BohnT
Frankly mate we got one decent change and one I agree with i.e change to wings (although I feel it needs to be 4 or the entire duration due to the cost), and a nerf to warmth which I think is okay.

Before I decided not bothering with the discord chat (even the community reps) were advocating for a long range burning ember while keeping the healing duration in tact. I got into a heated discussion with one community rep because I was baffled at the lack of discussion regarding Stam DK & easily called him/her out on that which ended with obfuscation all day.

I've taken a break from the game but I think by the end of this year (LOL) we'll finally receive something more notable so I wouldn't hold out for anything coming anytime soon.

SirMewser

LostSync wrote: »

Lol DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME Commenting on this thread cuz as u probably didin't guest it its a Troll, the comment made by gina was for the summerset patch not this one, Like look at the date (May 7) before u start complaining

Don't accuse someone for being a troll and insult other's interpretation of the original post because they don't agree with you.
It's not because they "didn't guest" anything, that's a pathetic belief.
Aside from that, there are reasons why discussions like this happen in the first place besides "trolling".

LiquidPony

BohnT wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

There were some seriously good balance changes here. Magden kinda got left out, but otherwise all the other changes look really good - chisel instead of sledgehammer.

look at the pain Points brought up by the community reps, then look back at the patch notes, now look back at the class rep post, back to the patch notes.
What did you notice?

The class reps meeting was on June 7th, wasn't it? It is now July 9th. If you thought that anything significant that came out of that meeting was going to be addressed in this patch, well, I don't know what to tell you.

DeathStalker

LiquidPony wrote: »

The class reps meeting was on June 7th, wasn't it? It is now July 9th. If you thought that anything significant that came out of that meeting was going to be addressed in this patch, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I was actually hoping for some of it. I mean not all but some. I am really disapointed in this patch and hope that soon we will get an ETA on when we can see some serious changes based on the class reps meeting and bug fixes.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

MaxwellC wrote: »

@BohnT
Before I decided not bothering with the discord chat (even the community reps) were advocating for a long range burning ember while keeping the healing duration in tact. I got into a heated discussion with one community rep because I was baffled at the lack of discussion regarding Stam DK & easily called him/her out on that which ended with obfuscation all day.

I tried to do what I could in the discord laying out the issues with stamDK. It really seems from the meeting notes that MagDK was the focus and they both ZOS and the class reps really don't understand what is wrong with stam DK on a fundamental passive level. This has nothing to do with #stamwhip. It has to do with #HelpingHands and Battleroar.

Both StamDK and Stamplar sustain got gutted in Moronwind and it needs to be reverted or re-worked.

sneakymitchell

It’s just the first PTS week wait one or two more weeks then say something.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It’s just the first PTS week wait one or two more weeks then say something.

Every damn cycle someone says this. You realize they finalize things so quickly and then refuse to budge close to release time right? Waiting has never been in our favor.

Strider__Roshin

Ni!

sneakymitchell

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It’s just the first PTS week wait one or two more weeks then say something.

Every damn cycle someone says this. You realize they finalize things so quickly and then refuse to budge close to release time right? Waiting has never been in our favor.

After a week or so if nothing changes then complain. It’s simple as that. They could change one of the classes next week with morphs and abilities.

Gprime31

They are changing things OP has no idea what he is talking about, read patch notes before qq

Lake

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It’s just the first PTS week wait one or two more weeks then say something.

Every damn cycle someone says this. You realize they finalize things so quickly and then refuse to budge close to release time right? Waiting has never been in our favor.

This. I felt bad for all the hard work the PTS testers went through the last cycle - only to have almost everything ignored!

IZZEFlameLash

Class balance threads are for ZOS to give them excuse to close and remove balance request threads so they can ignore only 5 threads instead of trying to evade another number of them. I wonder how many things that class reps said actually made through their own closed meetings. They'd rather have laggy mess with Crown Store rather than lag free and somewhat balanced game with Crown Store. Because latter takes more time while former only takes them blaming users for lags and imbalances.

sneakymitchell

Lake wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

sneakymitchell wrote: »

It’s just the first PTS week wait one or two more weeks then say something.

Every damn cycle someone says this. You realize they finalize things so quickly and then refuse to budge close to release time right? Waiting has never been in our favor.

This. I felt bad for all the hard work the PTS testers went through the last cycle - only to have almost everything ignored!

That was at the end of week or two before it went live or somewhere in the middle. Probably have to make a deadline to make both the people and marketers happy. Mostly marketers.

MLGProPlayer

usmcjdking wrote: »

I honestly have no idea what you are complaining about.

There were some seriously good balance changes here. Magden kinda got left out, but otherwise all the other changes look really good - chisel instead of sledgehammer.

14 months since we bought this class with our hard earned money. Not a single magden buff. Still the worst class in the game.

That's terrible customer service.

Turelus

I waste my time any way I feel like it thank you very much!

It's always worth giving feedback, even if it's not acted on right away. If you don't give any feed back then they won't know how you feel about something or what you desire to be changed.
Just be constructive and polite, don't have expectations outside of what's already been established as possible and focus on getting the feedback to who can use it.

When you stop trying to make ESO what you want, and start taking it for what it is and working to improve it in realistic ways you'll be a lot happier with the game (and all games you take that attitude towards).

IZZEFlameLash

Turelus wrote: »

I waste my time any way I feel like it thank you very much!

It's always worth giving feedback, even if it's not acted on right away. If you don't give any feed back then they won't know how you feel about something or what you desire to be changed.
Just be constructive and polite, don't have expectations outside of what's already been established as possible and focus on getting the feedback to who can use it.

When you stop trying to make ESO what you want, and start taking it for what it is and working to improve it in realistic ways you'll be a lot happier with the game (and all games you take that attitude towards).

Not everyone wants the ESO to be shaped in their own vision. There are general consensus of things that are imbalanced where more than half would agree on. Those things most want changed or adjusted or whatever. Which ZOS haven't done much of. Performance issues and class balances are just things that ZOS made themselves to be seen as non-caring as none are really being worked on as seriously as Crown reskins.

Turelus

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I waste my time any way I feel like it thank you very much!

It's always worth giving feedback, even if it's not acted on right away. If you don't give any feed back then they won't know how you feel about something or what you desire to be changed.
Just be constructive and polite, don't have expectations outside of what's already been established as possible and focus on getting the feedback to who can use it.

When you stop trying to make ESO what you want, and start taking it for what it is and working to improve it in realistic ways you'll be a lot happier with the game (and all games you take that attitude towards).

Not everyone wants the ESO to be shaped in their own vision. There are general consensus of things that are imbalanced where more than half would agree on. Those things most want changed or adjusted or whatever. Which ZOS haven't done much of. Performance issues and class balances are just things that ZOS made themselves to be seen as non-caring as none are really being worked on as seriously as Crown reskins.

Performance they've worked on since launch and are still working on, there are dozens of posts from them on it. However it's not a simple fix and they can't just upgrade/add more servers like the armchair tech experts think.
Has it been solved? No, and that is an issue, but they've hardly ignored the issue otherwise we wouldn't see something new tried in almost every update.
What they could do is be more communicative about the issues and what they're trying, letting the community know what the main causes are, how they're attempting to address them and what resources are devoted to it.

Balance is not perfect but people are fast to forget how bad this game has been compared to where it is now. There will always be FotM classes, sets or builds and things which out perform everything else.
We've seen so many FotM things come and go, every update it's something new and in the next update it's generally changed and fixed in some way.

Reskins happen because they're the most effective way to release new items without taking developers off other things. If you want new models for every new Crown Store item you're going to have to take the concept and 3D artists off the update content they're working on. However just changing the colour of a horse is likely one developer doing that art work.

Comparing time spent on releasing new items into the store vs game balance is also one of those terrible arguments that gets made too often.
If you think game balance is bad now, do you really want someone who's primary job is to make different colour horses to start tweaking your class skills? They're unlikely to know the fundamentals of balancing for ESO and break things more than they are now.
What would be better would be for ZOS to potentially recruit more people onto the combat team or see if there is a way to better organise it to get more changes out each update. They've got the class reps now which means feedback they receive can be filtered and focused and hopefully lead to better on the point changes in future.

The other issue I personally see is they tend to focus on one thing each update. For example this update is the "werewolf patch" which means the skill line is getting intensive review by the combat team, but there has been less time spent on classes (which seems to be the big demand right now).
I'm not sure how big their combat team is, but it might be worth having a set number of people who focus on basic class tweaks each update which can then be taken to the combat lead for the okay before pushing it out.

All of that debating done, this is still week 1 of a new PTS and once again we don't know if there will be any of the in demand changes in the next few weeks of updates.

Ogou

DeathStalker wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

The class reps meeting was on June 7th, wasn't it? It is now July 9th. If you thought that anything significant that came out of that meeting was going to be addressed in this patch, well, I don't know what to tell you.

I was actually hoping for some of it. I mean not all but some. I am really disapointed in this patch and hope that soon we will get an ETA on when we can see some serious changes based on the class reps meeting and bug fixes.

Didn't they put in some of the PvP requested changes?