Should ZoS suspend all further DLC and additional content and just focus on repairing the game?

Sanctum74

Yes, do whatever it takes

It's funny to see so many people with the "it doesn't affect me" attitude. Pc users used to have the same attitude towards console users and their performance problems, but now they too are experiencing issues in end game content like pvp, vma, trials, and dungeons.

The problems may not be affecting you now with just questing, but I guarantee it's not going to be too many more patches where pve will also be unplayable and then you too will be crying on the forums for help like the rest of us.

I don't think we are asking too much to have the basic game mechanics working and not have to reset our system every 10 minutes. Writing buggy code on top of more buggy code will just make it harder to fix in the long run if at all. Many of us have spent hundreds even thousands on this game and we just want it to work.

Btw questing and dolmens are not end game content

griffkhalifa

Yes, do whatever it takes

EvilCroc wrote: »

The game is OK. PvP problems do not matter (who cares?).
Moar DLC's! Moar story, dungeons, PvE zones! Moar crown store cosmetics!

A lot of people care, obviously. Nice post...grow up.

Lord_Ninka

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Ragebull wrote: »

They should, but what makes you think they would have any interest in going above and beyond to fix the game by postponing new content when they prefer to do the bare minimum and ignore it? I mean we have years of experience with them now, how anybody could give them the BOTD and think this is even a possibility is crazy lol

I think this is the best point I've read, honestly. We've put up with a lot of these issues (lag in cyrodiil) since the game came out and we're still around. What incentive (from their point of view) is there in spending money to fix something if we're going to continue playing it either way.

I think the lack of competition is a big part of the problem. If we want a game like ESO, then we don't really have a choice. It will be interesting to see if ZOS alters their strategy a bit when one day we'll get another big mmorpg with flexible builds and that from a different company.

griffkhalifa

Yes, do whatever it takes

Sanctum74 wrote: »

It's funny to see so many people with the "it doesn't affect me" attitude. Pc users used to have the same attitude towards console users and their performance problems, but now they too are experiencing issues in end game content like pvp, vma, trials, and dungeons.

The problems may not be affecting you now with just questing, but I guarantee it's not going to be too many more patches where pve will also be unplayable and then you too will be crying on the forums for help like the rest of us.

I don't think we are asking too much to have the basic game mechanics working and not have to reset our system every 10 minutes. Writing buggy code on top of more buggy code will just make it harder to fix in the long run if at all. Many of us have spent hundreds even thousands on this game and we just want it to work.

Btw questing and dolmens are not end game content

I don't get the "it doesn't affect me" attitude, either. Don't these players want a healthy game/player base? It's such an obtuse argument to say that because something doesn't affect you specifically it means it shouldn't be addressed. There are plenty of issues in the real world that don't affect me specifically but I still haven an opinion on them and realize they affect other people so they're important.

Sygil05

No, same schedule of content release

I don't think stopping all DLC is a realistic way of fixing the fundamental issues impacting a lot of players (across all platforms), and would not work for the business itself. It would also definitely not fly with the people that are making the business decisions for ZOS. As much as we want the bugs fixed, their business model relies on a constant influx of new players and cash related to DLC and crown store releases.

As others have mentioned, tracking down some of these bugs requires a different skill set than churning out new content. Instead of reassigning everyone, they need a dedicated resource that focuses on these issues while the rest of the team continues working on new content.

There's enough technical debt with this game to keep a full-time dev busy for quite some time.

Kazyn_Shadowpaw

I am legitimately confused. Are there specific crash or instability issues going on that is hardware based? Because my wife and i came back to ESO just because it was one of the few games she could play that WAS stable for her PC...

Is this a console issue? Or for certain O/S?

Kuramas9tails

Other or something else

Now I will not agree or disagree simple because of one thing:

I believe ZOS would have a team who works on bug fixes and another for pre-release development. These would be two different teams with different roles in the company. It would be unrealistic to expect all of development to stop what they are doing to do bug fixes.

But I don't know. I assume they would have different teams but I am not 100% right on it so I can't answer this poll.

Kilandros

Yes, do whatever it takes

ZOS will never invest the money necessary to fix game performance. They don't even do any development in house anymore--everything gets outsourced, probably overseas. To think that ZOS is going to hire in-house developers to fix the spaghetti code created from 5 years of outsourcing development to different contractors is laughable.

This game is FUBAR. Enjoy the pixels until the next decent game comes out. Then abandon ship.

inthecoconut

Yes, do whatever it takes

Kazyn_Shadowpaw wrote: »

I am legitimately confused. Are there specific crash or instability issues going on that is hardware based? Because my wife and i came back to ESO just because it was one of the few games she could play that WAS stable for her PC...

Is this a console issue? Or for certain O/S?

I couldn't tell you why some people are effected and others aren't. I'm running a somewhat high-end PC (GTX 1080, i7-6700k, 32GB RAM) and I am experiencing a bug that some others on PC have been experiencing:



The walls and floor disappear, making it near impossible to navigate. I only experienced it a few times initially, but some days is like flipping a coin when I load into an area. And if it happened right away, that would be one thing. I could just immedietly leave the area and reload it but it often doesn't happen until I'm already half-way into an area. It pops up in delves, dungeons, story instances, etc.

My husband also runs into this bug. Sometimes it happens to me and he isn't effected, other times its him and I'm fine and we can help lead each other through it. But when it happens to both of us, it is like the blind leading the blind. Kind of funny to watch from the outside I imagine.

We jokingly refer to it as the new hard-mode feature. When the game gets too easy, Bethesda flips a random switch to make things more challenging.

TheRealSniker

Yes, do whatever it takes

Grabmoore wrote: »

No. Your fix is already there. Switch to PC.

ZOS don't have the man power needed to push fixes as fast as you would like to. They do something, but each change is slow. That's just how it is. How would you expect them to fix the game without anyone spending money?

They have 2500+ members working, they only own ONE project, they are a multibillionaire company that gets support from an even bigger company, ESO is in the top 15 most selling game on Steam(this year alone).

They have enough manpower lmfao

The fact that the new Stamfood hasnt been fixed yet amazes me

Elsonso

No, same schedule of content release

TheRealSniker wrote: »

Grabmoore wrote: »

No. Your fix is already there. Switch to PC.

ZOS don't have the man power needed to push fixes as fast as you would like to. They do something, but each change is slow. That's just how it is. How would you expect them to fix the game without anyone spending money?

They have 2500+ members working, they only own ONE project, they are a multibillionaire company that gets support from an even bigger company, ESO is in the top 15 most selling game on Steam(this year alone).

They have enough manpower lmfao

The fact that the new Stamfood hasnt been fixed yet amazes me

I am pretty sure you are getting Zenimax Media confused with Zenimax Online Studios. ZOS does not draw from the resources of the parent company like it is open bar night. I figure that ZOS is 200-300 people, and I doubt they are one project studio. I also doubt that ZOS is a multi-billion dollar company.

Kazyn_Shadowpaw

inthecoconut wrote: »

Kazyn_Shadowpaw wrote: »

I am legitimately confused. Are there specific crash or instability issues going on that is hardware based? Because my wife and i came back to ESO just because it was one of the few games she could play that WAS stable for her PC...

Is this a console issue? Or for certain O/S?

I couldn't tell you why some people are effected and others aren't. I'm running a somewhat high-end PC (GTX 1080, i7-6700k, 32GB RAM) and I am experiencing a bug that some others on PC have been experiencing:



The walls and floor disappear, making it near impossible to navigate. I only experienced it a few times initially, but some days is like flipping a coin when I load into an area. And if it happened right away, that would be one thing. I could just immedietly leave the area and reload it but it often doesn't happen until I'm already half-way into an area. It pops up in delves, dungeons, story instances, etc.

My husband also runs into this bug. Sometimes it happens to me and he isn't effected, other times its him and I'm fine and we can help lead each other through it. But when it happens to both of us, it is like the blind leading the blind. Kind of funny to watch from the outside I imagine.

We jokingly refer to it as the new hard-mode feature. When the game gets too easy, Bethesda flips a random switch to make things more challenging.

Wow yeah we havent seen that. My wifes pc has trouble handling most other games without severe stalling but here she actually runs it quite well. Sorry for those that experience the problems though. That stinks.

Agenericname

Kazyn_Shadowpaw wrote: »

I am legitimately confused. Are there specific crash or instability issues going on that is hardware based? Because my wife and i came back to ESO just because it was one of the few games she could play that WAS stable for her PC...

Is this a console issue? Or for certain O/S?

I'm on PC and I get the disappearing environment as well. It's also pretty common to be running a dungeon and have it happen to someone in the group while in there. I'd estimate it's a little over 66% of dungeons I've ran lately have had at least one person speak up about it.

The easiest way to handle it seems to be to follow someone who isn't affected closely until it passes. It's usually fairly brief.

In my experience it has been less common overland.

On the bright side, it does make finding chests much easier.

POps75p

Other or something else

nothing to repair, just get rid of malware and everything will work fine

technohic

Yes, do whatever it takes

Yeah. Don’t even need to go all out but at least reduce sone output for a quarter to focus on performance.

essi2

You are assuming ZOS has the luxury of not sticking to their release schedule.

Huyen

Yes, do whatever it takes

Dlc dungeons like scalecaller peak is really hard with an anticlimax at the end. Fix the bloody game already.

Thavie

What's the point of creating these kinds of threads if everyone knows that it is not going to ever happen? Or you actually believe that ZOS would listen?

starkerealm

No, same schedule of content release

No. I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again here, suspending the content release cycle would be far more damaging to the game than the bugs currently are. Most of them get fixed on fairly short turnaround already.

Should ZOS commit more resources to QA as they have the option to do so? Yes. Stop all forward momentum because of something like the bank bug or bar swap delay? No. That would kill the game.

A lot of the persistent issues that come up in threads like this, particularly performance in Cyrodiil, are not simple fixes. They require significant work, which is happening. However, they really can't afford to say, "okay, for the next nine months we're only going to work on that." There's a few reasons, not the least of which is that the content creation team are not the same guys who are working on fixing this stuff. You do not want an artist who works with oils and photoshop working on the netcode. You don't want the writing team trying to work on fixing class balance. You can't simply lift specialized teams out their field, and drop them wherever you want. It doesn't work that way, and "making a game," isn't a single skillset. At least, not, "making a game on the scope of ESO."

Could they use more coders? Maybe, but even there it's not a guarantee. Simply adding more programmers to a project doesn't necessarily mean faster turnaround or better work. This is a problem faced by management in many businesses. Particularly tech illiterate management who think, "more bodies must mean it gets done faster," and will gleefully throw new hires at a project, which in turn slows everything down, because now the new team members have to be brought up to speed, and have to be coordinated into the workflow.

Could they use a more robust QA team? Yeah, I think so. This isn't knocking the existing QA team, but having more testers poking and breaking things so the team can start working on fixes sooner. There is a lot to cover, especially when you start interlacing stuff together and finding unintended interactions. So, yeah, more eyes on that might be beneficial. Including for balance feedback.

Actually saying, "okay, no more DLC until we sort this out?" No. That would not be good for the game.

griffkhalifa

Yes, do whatever it takes

starkerealm wrote: »

No. I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again here, suspending the content release cycle would be far more damaging to the game than the bugs currently are. Most of them get fixed on fairly short turnaround already.

Should ZOS commit more resources to QA as they have the option to do so? Yes. Stop all forward momentum because of something like the bank bug or bar swap delay? No. That would kill the game.

A lot of the persistent issues that come up in threads like this, particularly performance in Cyrodiil, are not simple fixes. They require significant work, which is happening. However, they really can't afford to say, "okay, for the next nine months we're only going to work on that." There's a few reasons, not the least of which is that the content creation team are not the same guys who are working on fixing this stuff. You do not want an artist who works with oils and photoshop working on the netcode. You don't want the writing team trying to work on fixing class balance. You can't simply lift specialized teams out their field, and drop them wherever you want. It doesn't work that way, and "making a game," isn't a single skillset. At least, not, "making a game on the scope of ESO."

Could they use more coders? Maybe, but even there it's not a guarantee. Simply adding more programmers to a project doesn't necessarily mean faster turnaround or better work. This is a problem faced by management in many businesses. Particularly tech illiterate management who think, "more bodies must mean it gets done faster," and will gleefully throw new hires at a project, which in turn slows everything down, because now the new team members have to be brought up to speed, and have to be coordinated into the workflow.

Could they use a more robust QA team? Yeah, I think so. This isn't knocking the existing QA team, but having more testers poking and breaking things so the team can start working on fixes sooner. There is a lot to cover, especially when you start interlacing stuff together and finding unintended interactions. So, yeah, more eyes on that might be beneficial. Including for balance feedback.

Actually saying, "okay, no more DLC until we sort this out?" No. That would not be good for the game.

Lot to unpack here.

You start out by downplaying the issue and reducing it to a "bank bug and bar swap delay" which are two issues, but not the main ones. Downplaying and not mentioning the main issues doesn't add to productive dialogue.

You say that they're not simple fixes, and I don't think anyone has argued that they are. You also say that they're currently working on them; where is the evidence of this? These problems have only gotten worse over time, not better. There is no evidence at all that they're trying to fix it.

Which brings me to the next point: if things are getting worse over time along with new content releases, one solution is to stop releasing content until said content can be released without at the VERY LEAST worsening the current games performance, but ideally new content releases would IMPROVE current content.

You're right it's not a "guarantee" that adding more coders would fix the problem; but it's a pretty good bet that it would and the alternative is doing what they're doing now: nothing. Getting new programmers "up to speed" seems like it is worth the investment because the current programmers apparently don't know what the *** they're doing.

Nothing you said convinces me that temporarily suspending content additions for the overall health of the game would be a bad thing. The alternative is a game that's going to get progressively worse from an already pretty bad spot right now, which I think is hard to argue that would be beneficial.

Edit: and you never actually said how suspending content release would be damaging to the game.

Malthorne

No, same schedule of content release

It’s been like this for 4 years now. Old bugs from 2014 have returned and new bugs arise each patch. They’ll all be addressed and they’ll all come back again. It’s the circle of life. Here’s to another laggy and buggy 4 years of ESO!

PS:
Have you turned off all of your addons?