Master DW inactive at times?

Zeromaz

I've noticed this last week and I keep seeing it.... In Cyrodiil and BGs my Rending Slashes will sometimes hit people for 700-800 on ticks. How is this possible? It adds 1500 per tick on the ability so cut that in half and we get 750 additional damage on (typically for me) 10k bleed.... something doesn't add up here.

Lichbourne90

I've noticed this a few times as well....

montiferus

Do you lose the buff when you bar swap?

Zeromaz

You do not lose the buff when you swap.. at least not supposed to. I tested it on my friend yesterday, so unless something specific triggers it to NOT use the Master DW set bonus, seems to work as far as what I tested.

Thogard

Well battle spirit and all that Jazz.

Are you sure you aren’t seeing some Crit and some not Crit?

Zeromaz

Thogard wrote: »

Well battle spirit and all that Jazz.

Are you sure you aren’t seeing some Crit and some not Crit?

positive... and battlespirit would bring that 1500 increase down to 750 as stated above... i just don't see how it can hit for so little

Lichbourne90

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

Lichbourne90

Unfortunately I dont have a clip saved of the said low ticks

Zeromaz

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Ragnarock41

Zeromaz wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Dks have no ultimate that can realistically mitigate a bleed's damage. Whatever your problem is, its not caused by a Dk ultimate. Maybe the target had minor/major protection on him.

Zeromaz

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Dks have no ultimate that can realistically mitigate a bleed's damage. Whatever your problem is, its not caused by a Dk ultimate. Maybe the target had minor/major protection on him.

magma armor would do exactly that... but yeah... even with major and minor, the numbers don't seem right

Nevasca

If you use rending and immediatly weapon swap, it will not apply the buff if I recall. This applies to most if not all 5pc, 2pc, etc.

Ragnarock41

Zeromaz wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Dks have no ultimate that can realistically mitigate a bleed's damage. Whatever your problem is, its not caused by a Dk ultimate. Maybe the target had minor/major protection on him.

magma armor would do exactly that... but yeah... even with major and minor, the numbers don't seem right

Magma armor caps incoming damage to a certain number, which is usually around 3k per hit for 25k hp.( did not test, can't be bothered. Just telling my observations with corrosive armor.) Its kinda buggy so it does not always work the way it should, but I don't think a single bleed tick can reach 3k even with master dw. And the numbers you mention are far lower than that anyways.

As mentioned above, if you bar swap before the weapon actually procs you will not get the effect.(same thing also applies for master bow too). So that might be the cause of your problem.

Zeromaz

Thank you for this tip fellas. This could most certainly be the issue. I wonder why this wasn’t fixed when the enchants/poisons were fixed when bar swapping quickly

Koensol

To be honest I have noticed similar problems and I went and tested on PvE mobs. The damage certainly isn't increasing by 1500 each tick. Sometimes it will just tick for similar amount of damage as the previous tick. It seems wildly inconsistent.

Zeromaz

Well. I ran a few BGs and stayed on my DW bar to see if bar swapping has anything to do with it and i came to the conclusion that bar swapping doesn’t change the low numbers. I’ve seen the ticks hit in the 600s a few times today too. What the heck could be causing this?

Could it be subtracting the 1500 instead of adding it at times?

ChunkyCat

Well, I for one enchant all my jewelry with increase bleed resist.

Maybe others are catching on, too?

Zeromaz

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Well, I for one enchant all my jewelry with increase bleed resist.

Maybe others are catching on, too?

Lol perhaps. I’ve seen those enchants going like hot-cakes on the traders

Yakidafi

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Dks have no ultimate that can realistically mitigate a bleed's damage. Whatever your problem is, its not caused by a Dk ultimate. Maybe the target had minor/major protection on him.

magma armor would do exactly that... but yeah... even with major and minor, the numbers don't seem right

Magma armor caps incoming damage to a certain number, which is usually around 3k per hit for 25k hp.( did not test, can't be bothered. Just telling my observations with corrosive armor.) Its kinda buggy so it does not always work the way it should, but I don't think a single bleed tick can reach 3k even with master dw. And the numbers you mention are far lower than that anyways.

As mentioned above, if you bar swap before the weapon actually procs you will not get the effect.(same thing also applies for master bow too). So that might be the cause of your problem.

It caps at 3% of your max health, so 3% of 25000 is 750, could be something like that happened. And yea bar swap directly will most likely make it not work aswell.

Zeromaz

Yakidafi wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

Lichbourne90 wrote: »

I went back and watched a clip I had. When working properly with my build the ticks are 1300 non crit 1600 crit on most players

likewise... and thats at the bottom end of my damage spectrum. but recently its been hitting really low, unreasonably. thats not with insane damage mitigation ultimates such as the NBs or DKs

Dks have no ultimate that can realistically mitigate a bleed's damage. Whatever your problem is, its not caused by a Dk ultimate. Maybe the target had minor/major protection on him.

magma armor would do exactly that... but yeah... even with major and minor, the numbers don't seem right

Magma armor caps incoming damage to a certain number, which is usually around 3k per hit for 25k hp.( did not test, can't be bothered. Just telling my observations with corrosive armor.) Its kinda buggy so it does not always work the way it should, but I don't think a single bleed tick can reach 3k even with master dw. And the numbers you mention are far lower than that anyways.

As mentioned above, if you bar swap before the weapon actually procs you will not get the effect.(same thing also applies for master bow too). So that might be the cause of your problem.

It caps at 3% of your max health, so 3% of 25000 is 750, could be something like that happened. And yea bar swap directly will most likely make it not work aswell.

I’ve paid special attention to this and it will happen without bar swapping, and without any form of mitigation ultimate going on

mursie

unfortunate - i'll do some testing tonight. i did feel like master's DW was a huge rage a month or two back and after getting them, they haven't felt that strong.

cloak, rune-cage, fossilize, sloads, legacy procs, skoria procs and siege - that's felt strong.

Zeromaz

mursie wrote: »

unfortunate - i'll do some testing tonight. i did feel like master's DW was a huge rage a month or two back and after getting them, they haven't felt that strong.

cloak, rune-cage, fossilize, sloads, legacy procs, skoria procs and siege - that's felt strong.

Thanks, i appreciate it. I will try to replicate it as well this weekend

Zeromaz

Any new found information on this?

mursie

tested the day we spoke - could not replicate your results. further - the damage modifier was actually greater than the 1500 dmg on the tooltip when i was testing on a 3M parse dummy.

tested base using master axe and a random offhand mace then tested using master axe and master mace. for testing purposes the maces were identified in trait / enchant etc..

was crazy. when i first read this thread i contemplated moving from master DW to potentially master 2H or vMA 2H if the bleed wasn't going to work or wouldn't be that strrong. instead - it was super strong, way stronger than the vMA proc bleed and stronger than even the tooltip identified.

Zeromaz

mursie wrote: »

tested the day we spoke - could not replicate your results. further - the damage modifier was actually greater than the 1500 dmg on the tooltip when i was testing on a 3M parse dummy.

tested base using master axe and a random offhand mace then tested using master axe and master mace. for testing purposes the maces were identified in trait / enchant etc..

was crazy. when i first read this thread i contemplated moving from master DW to potentially master 2H or vMA 2H if the bleed wasn't going to work or wouldn't be that strrong. instead - it was super strong, way stronger than the vMA proc bleed and stronger than even the tooltip identified.

I haven’t had this bug in pve. Only pvp. Cyrodiil and BGs specifically, haven’t tried in duels

Lexxypwns

Are you certain it’s not being blocked?

TheYKcid

mursie wrote: »

further - the damage modifier was actually greater than the 1500 dmg on the tooltip when i was testing on a 3M parse dummy [...] stronger than even the tooltip identified.

That's because the 1500 it adds is base damage. It's subject to %-based damage modifiers like CPs (Mighty, Thauma), minor Berserk, sorc Energized passive, etc.

Same thing applies to vMA 2H proc, actually.

Zeromaz

You can’t block bleeds i thought? And it would say if it was blocked on my combat log. I’m using the FTC log at the moment. I understand that it adds to base damage but any way you look at it, it shouldn’t be hitting for 600s

Zeromaz

I’ve switched my enchants from robust to bloodthirsty and thought perhaps that was bugging it out so i went and bought new jewelry, all robust, and had the same issues

Lexxypwns

Zeromaz wrote: »

You can’t block bleeds i thought? And it would say if it was blocked on my combat log. I’m using the FTC log at the moment. I understand that it adds to base damage but any way you look at it, it shouldn’t be hitting for 600s

You should do some test parses on a dummy with different levels of penetration. Then you should do some test parses against an actual player and watch your damage.

I think that perhaps these mechanics don’t work quite the way they’re advertised. @Liam12548 has mentioned that Rending isn’t a “true” bleed, unlike the TBaB and Heavy Weapons bleeds and given the quality of player he is I’m quite confident that he’s correct.

React

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

You can’t block bleeds i thought? And it would say if it was blocked on my combat log. I’m using the FTC log at the moment. I understand that it adds to base damage but any way you look at it, it shouldn’t be hitting for 600s

You should do some test parses on a dummy with different levels of penetration. Then you should do some test parses against an actual player and watch your damage.

I think that perhaps these mechanics don’t work quite the way they’re advertised. @Liam12548 has mentioned that Rending isn’t a “true” bleed, unlike the TBaB and Heavy Weapons bleeds and given the quality of player he is I’m quite confident that he’s correct.

So I actually had tested if pen affected all things classified as bleeds when bloodrinker was released (I think hOtR?), and at that point in time rending and cleave both increased in damage with points in pen/sharp weapons, where axe passive bleeds did not (hence my classification of then as "true" bleeds). However, in summerset this does not appear to be the case. Penetration now appears to have no affect on anything classified as a bleed, which is supposedly how it should be. It is unclear at which point this changed or why, but that is how it appears to be.

Edit: No, you cannot block bleeds.