would you rather have Agony or Malevolent offering in the siphoning skill tree?

PhantomOcelot

Both of them are useless really

Lucky28

honestly. neither of them are really that great. offering was pretty good when it was a HoT that you could put on yourself, but since they changed it, it's meh.

offering was better before they changed it. more versatile

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Lucky28 wrote: »

honestly. neither of them are really that great. offering was pretty good when it was a HoT that you could put on yourself, but since they changed it, it's meh.

offering was better before they changed it. more versatile

I disagree, the current offering is anything but meh.

Datthaw

Malevolent offfering

Agony sucked, it's always been either destro cc or fear. People who used agony are hipsters, and no one likes hipsters.

Lucky28

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

honestly. neither of them are really that great. offering was pretty good when it was a HoT that you could put on yourself, but since they changed it, it's meh.

offering was better before they changed it. more versatile

I disagree, the current offering is anything but meh.

if you play a healer sure. but i want a self heal, so it's meh.

kaithuzar

Two points:

1) agony was used to help wear out the target's stam pool, while keeping you at range

2) agony meteor was just as strong as
Sorc: rune cage meteor
Dk: (that skill wear the earth comes out of the ground & cc's you) meteor

As far as I know, I was the first nb to do/make that combo a thing b/c all the dk's that would kick my butt doing that combo on me.
It's a decent combo.

Reason they took it away was probably because all the complaining from people not knowing they had to dismount their horse before attempting to break free, so ZOS probably viewed it as a troublesome mechanic.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

honestly. neither of them are really that great. offering was pretty good when it was a HoT that you could put on yourself, but since they changed it, it's meh.

offering was better before they changed it. more versatile

I disagree, the current offering is anything but meh.

if you play a healer sure. but i want a self heal, so it's meh.

Ofc course, but the truth still applies. The skill is not meant for a non healer. Thats like saying BOL is trash because i cant make it work on my stamplar.

Tryxus

Malevolent offfering

I would pick Malevolent (Healthy) Offering. There were a lot better options for a CC than Agony back then, but being able to get Minor Mending along with Vitality and many HoTs is actually pretty nice

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

kaithuzar wrote: »

Two points:

1) agony was used to help wear out the target's stam pool, while keeping you at range

2) agony meteor was just as strong as
Sorc: rune cage meteor
Dk: (that skill wear the earth comes out of the ground & cc's you) meteor

As far as I know, I was the first nb to do/make that combo a thing b/c all the dk's that would kick my butt doing that combo on me.
It's a decent combo.

Reason they took it away was probably because all the complaining from people not knowing they had to dismount their horse before attempting to break free, so ZOS probably viewed it as a troublesome mechanic.

Sorry but agony was not taken away for any reason pertainting to its strength. It almost never pressured a targets stamina because any damage inclusing weak dot ticks would break it and grant them cc immunity. Under strict scenarios you could make it work if it was absolutely a 1v1 where you controlled all the damage going out, beyond that it was a wasted slot.

The skill was a relic of a previous vision of eso. It was designed for an eso that didnt have break free. It was designed as a function similar to skills like WoWs polymorph (aka sheep) ie a spell that was usefull for locking down a single target for a long period of time that breaks on damage. In pve that was useless, as such mob control was unnecessary for content that mattered, and in pvp again it was too situational since any form of damage broke the effect, and when you apply that skill to the current combat system, you have a ranged stun that often granted CC imuntiy to the target without forcing them to spend stamina, with a damage mechanic was so offensively paltry it might as well have done none.

Metoer setups were the only thing going for it in all honesty. The skill was changed because the devs understood this fact, the skill saw such small amount of use and the category of the stun was obsolete / not entirely compatable with the current game. What was gained with offering far outweighs what was lost with agony for the class as a whole. The main issue is a combination of people not wanting to acknowledge zos' attempts at bolstering nb healers and thus by default claiming offering is trash.

"NBs should not be healers, therefore offering is a *** skill"

That is the pathetic circular logic that continues, and is compounded by the fact that these very same people dont have the faintest clue as to how the skill operates because they have never used it or seen it used on a nb that is built precisely around making the most out of it, ie healing.

Offering is a very strong ability and ignorance is the only reason anyone would say otherwise.

Myux

Malevolent offfering

i like offering a lot, but not in its current state as its only use is in group play. it needs to have an additional use for the player. when the PTS notes came out i thought that they were just gonna swap its use from "deals instant damage but gives you great healing over time" to "puts a dot on you but instantly heals you for a lot" but then i found out i couldnt even use it on myself anymore.
i was really disappointed cause it sounded really neat, i enjoyed using the previous version in solo play a lot so im sad to see it being unuseable aside from having the ability to kill myself wherever i want. hell, id like if they had both versions available as separate morphs. with the damage over time version right now tho it would have to be adjusted a lot to make it balanced for casting on the user, so personally id just say have it stack multiplicatively and refresh the dot duration on each cast, like streak and rolling

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Myux wrote: »

i like offering a lot, but not in its current state as its only use is in group play. it needs to have an additional use for the player. when the PTS notes came out i thought that they were just gonna swap its use from "deals instant damage but gives you great healing over time" to "puts a dot on you but instantly heals you for a lot" but then i found out i couldnt even use it on myself anymore.
i was really disappointed cause it sounded really neat, i enjoyed using the previous version in solo play a lot so im sad to see it being unuseable aside from having the ability to kill myself wherever i want. hell, id like if they had both versions available as separate morphs. with the damage over time version right now tho it would have to be adjusted a lot to make it balanced for casting on the user, so personally id just say have it stack multiplicatively and refresh the dot duration on each cast, like streak and rolling

Initially i assumed without thinking about it, that the instant heal would smart cast the caster like the previous version and like most other heals. However in actual use i realized how broken it would be if the current version of offering was able to heal the caster. Without a magicka cost, the skill will never work as a self heal. Being able to self heal would creat scenarios were you would be almost invincible so long as you heal for more than the health cost of the ability. We are talking zero magicka costing 12k self heals in no cp pvp environments.

There are limitations they could impose but those would undermind the entire purpose of the skill. On the other hand, they could change the other morph to cost magicka and become a smart casted hot similar in strength to its previous verion. Giving nbs a way to apply a strong hot to a team including themselves at the price of a considerable magicka cost.

kaithuzar

exeeter702 wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Two points:

1) agony was used to help wear out the target's stam pool, while keeping you at range

2) agony meteor was just as strong as
Sorc: rune cage meteor
Dk: (that skill wear the earth comes out of the ground & cc's you) meteor

As far as I know, I was the first nb to do/make that combo a thing b/c all the dk's that would kick my butt doing that combo on me.
It's a decent combo.

Reason they took it away was probably because all the complaining from people not knowing they had to dismount their horse before attempting to break free, so ZOS probably viewed it as a troublesome mechanic.

Sorry but agony was not taken away for any reason pertainting to its strength. It almost never pressured a targets stamina because any damage inclusing weak dot ticks would break it and grant them cc immunity. Under strict scenarios you could make it work if it was absolutely a 1v1 where you controlled all the damage going out, beyond that it was a wasted slot.

The skill was a relic of a previous vision of eso. It was designed for an eso that didnt have break free. It was designed as a function similar to skills like WoWs polymorph (aka sheep) ie a spell that was usefull for locking down a single target for a long period of time that breaks on damage. In pve that was useless, as such mob control was unnecessary for content that mattered, and in pvp again it was too situational since any form of damage broke the effect, and when you apply that skill to the current combat system, you have a ranged stun that often granted CC imuntiy to the target without forcing them to spend stamina, with a damage mechanic was so offensively paltry it might as well have done none.

Metoer setups were the only thing going for it in all honesty. The skill was changed because the devs understood this fact, the skill saw such small amount of use and the category of the stun was obsolete / not entirely compatable with the current game. What was gained with offering far outweighs what was lost with agony for the class as a whole. The main issue is a combination of people not wanting to acknowledge zos' attempts at bolstering nb healers and thus by default claiming offering is trash.

"NBs should not be healers, therefore offering is a *** skill"

That is the pathetic circular logic that continues, and is compounded by the fact that these very same people dont have the faintest clue as to how the skill operates because they have never used it or seen it used on a nb that is built precisely around making the most out of it, ie healing.

Offering is a very strong ability and ignorance is the only reason anyone would say otherwise.

I can't comment on "what the devs were thinking during agony's creation" as I wasn't part of that inner circle, nor do I remember if this was ever publicized. However, as a 1vx style player who does not use dots, it was very strong to temporarily take someone out of the fight while you focused the other guy down. There were a lot more use cases than you are giving it credit for so if you're going to say "under strict scenarios" implying it was only used by a handful of people a small percent of the time, then you had better have tried every possible combination before blasting your disapproval badmouthing it as a skill. If you don't understand how epic it was to turn a 1v4 that you likely won't win, temporarily into a 1v3, allowing you to take one person out while the other is CC'd, I'm not sure what to say.
Not everyone broke free from agony, they had a choice, which directly impacted your next move in the chess game of combat.

Lucky28

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

honestly. neither of them are really that great. offering was pretty good when it was a HoT that you could put on yourself, but since they changed it, it's meh.

offering was better before they changed it. more versatile

I disagree, the current offering is anything but meh.

if you play a healer sure. but i want a self heal, so it's meh.

Ofc course, but the truth still applies. The skill is not meant for a non healer. Thats like saying BOL is trash because i cant make it work on my stamplar.

no it's actually not. offering is worthless for anyone who plays solo or DPS. BoL can still be used and well on a magplar who is built for DPS or playing solo.

Nightblade is a versatile class, offering is not versatile at all. thus why i think it was better as a HoT, more versatility.