would you rather have Agony or Malevolent offering in the siphoning skill tree?

ll_Rev

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

12k pvp burst heal that ignores elevation, castable through walls, instant cast that increases healing done by 3 percent just for slotting and additionally grants minor mending (the only morph worth taking really) that costs zero magicka to cast and which its health cost is easily negated at upwards of 5 stacks

Vs

A poverty version rune prison that breaks from so much as a mild breeze and grants CC immunity to the target.

Honesty its not even a contest. Most opponents of offering actually dont have clue as to how strong the skill really is and scoff at the notion of a NB being an exceptional healer.

IZZEFlameLash

Agony

exeeter702 wrote: »

12k pvp burst heal that ignores elevation, castable through walls, instant cast that increases healing done by 3 percent just for slotting and additionally grants minor mending (the only morph worth taking really) that costs zero magicka to cast and which its health cost is easily negated at upwards of 5 stacks

Vs

A poverty version rune prison that breaks from so much as a mild breeze and grants CC immunity to the target.

Honesty its not even a contest. Most opponents of offering actually dont have clue as to how strong the skill really is and scoff at the notion of a NB being an exceptional healer.

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Kikke

One: PvE Dot Standard in a regular PvE rotation

second: a situational ability only used by a minority of the playerbase.

Uhm, I wonder what will win!

Laquey

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Indeed it is; if you understood how it works. Malevolent Offering only affects other players so it's not a skill you would use when you are pressured but when others are and your hots offset all of its cost by a large margin.

This is a bread and butter skill for my PvE Magblade Argonian Tank / Healer; anything my hots can't handle this does and hits for 12K.

ascan7

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Learn to play then.
This skill was made for PVE healer. Since the last update it's perfect. You don't need to spam it ofte, the health price is perfectly fine if you know how to build.
The fact that in PVP sucks shouldn't matter. Agony was still used by almost no one too. Malevolent Offering is useful for PVE healers. Don't remoreve Malevolent Offering for PVP crybabies please.

Maryal

I suppose it depends on whether you primarily use it in pve or pvp and why you used the skill ... and perhaps whether or not you are of the Argonian persuasion.

Agony was a utility skill that definitely had it's place ... niche yes, but was a very useful utility skill.

Malevolent offfering is labeled as a healing skill. A positive is that you don't need a healing staff to use when 'healing' someone else. On a negative, you probably need a healing staff to heal yourself after you've used the skill to heal someone else (unless you are an Argonian).

Vizier

Agony

Agony- No question.

IZZEFlameLash

Agony

Laquey wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Indeed it is; if you understood how it works. Malevolent Offering only affects other players so it's not a skill you would use when you are pressured but when others are and your hots offset all of its cost by a large margin.

This is a bread and butter skill for my PvE Magblade Argonian Tank / Healer; anything my hots can't handle this does and hits for 12K.

I mean, from what I remember, NBs wanted burst heal they can use under pressure and ZOS came up with this. Replacing the class's ranged CC. And you are in PvP section trying to defend this skill using PvE as an example which I think is not a trial run. Wrong section.

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Learn to play then.
This skill was made for PVE healer. Since the last update it's perfect. You don't need to spam it ofte, the health price is perfectly fine if you know how to build.
The fact that in PVP sucks shouldn't matter. Agony was still used by almost no one too. Malevolent Offering is useful for PVE healers. Don't remoreve Malevolent Offering for PVP crybabies please.

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

Froil

Agony

I hate Malevolent Offering on my NB healer. I don't even run it. I would prefer Agony to MO and I hate both skills.

Though I do think at least one morph should remain a healing morph but still target an enemy, without stunning them, and pulse out healing from the target and then move the Minor Mending to Refreshing Path.

Laquey

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

I mean, from what I remember, NBs wanted burst heal they can use under pressure and ZOS came up with this. Replacing the class's ranged CC. And you are in PvP section trying to defend this skill using PvE as an example which I think is not a trial run. Wrong section.

Fine, let me put this into a completely pvp perspective.

NB previously didn't have a burst heal but they have plenty hots for themselves and other players. ZOS redesigns a redundant HoT skill into a burst heal for other players that costs health, it has a lot of strengths but its drawbacks are it can't heal you and costs you health (why would you use a health based heal while under preasure?).

a NB healers defences consist of placement, invisibility, roots and probably a shield or two as well as hots which is an ideal complement to a health based burst heal when servicing other players in pvp.

This skill combined with the change of Soul siphon to a 28 yard AoE heal are the best things to happen to a NB pvp healer using terrain, shadow and cloak you can run rings around people trying to put pressure on you while you spam your instant heal 3 of every 4 cool downs while not smashing your mana into oblivion.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Laquey wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Indeed it is; if you understood how it works. Malevolent Offering only affects other players so it's not a skill you would use when you are pressured but when others are and your hots offset all of its cost by a large margin.

This is a bread and butter skill for my PvE Magblade Argonian Tank / Healer; anything my hots can't handle this does and hits for 12K.

I mean, from what I remember, NBs wanted burst heal they can use under pressure and ZOS came up with this. Replacing the class's ranged CC. And you are in PvP section trying to defend this skill using PvE as an example which I think is not a trial run. Wrong section.

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Yeah so strong at the cost of your own health in a hard pressed situation is so good.

Learn to play then.
This skill was made for PVE healer. Since the last update it's perfect. You don't need to spam it ofte, the health price is perfectly fine if you know how to build.
The fact that in PVP sucks shouldn't matter. Agony was still used by almost no one too. Malevolent Offering is useful for PVE healers. Don't remoreve Malevolent Offering for PVP crybabies please.

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

No but i am... the skill is unquestionably strong. You dont know what you are talking about because you have yet to use it on a build it is meant for.

In pvp this heal is insane. The health cost is negligible. It is a selfless burst heal that crits for 12k in no cp pvp environments, does so through los and regardless of elevation.

The skill is incredible. I would appreciate those defending the skill not spread misinformation about it being weak in pvp. Yes in pve it is very strong as well.

dodgehopper_ESO

They should have given us Agony on one Morph, and Malevolent on the other. In this way we could all be happy and not have lost a core single target cc while at the same time opening things up for the healers. This is essentially what they did with Dark Cloak is it not? I actually think this was a clever idea. Even more clever would be if we could eventually learn all morphs of skills if we wanted to, or giving us 'Build Slots' to store a 'PvP Build' a 'Trial Build' etc.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

They should have given us Agony on one Morph, and Malevolent on the other. In this way we could all be happy and not have lost a core single target cc while at the same time opening things up for the healers. This is essentially what they did with Dark Cloak is it not? I actually think this was a clever idea. Even more clever would be if we could eventually learn all morphs of skills if we wanted to, or giving us 'Build Slots' to store a 'PvP Build' a 'Trial Build' etc.

Yeah i get that, shrewd offering is effectively a dead morph. If that was instead a similar stun like agony it would have to be redesigned as the original agony was more garbage than it was niche utility.

Edziu

Agony

exeeter702 wrote: »

No but i am... the skill is unquestionably strong. You dont know what you are talking about because you have yet to use it on a build it is meant for.

In pvp this heal is insane. The health cost is negligible. It is a selfless burst heal that crits for 12k in no cp pvp environments, does so through los and regardless of elevation.

The skill is incredible. I would appreciate those defending the skill not spread misinformation about it being weak in pvp. Yes in pve it is very strong as well.

so are you saying here we need to start nerf threads about this because people dont know how powerfull it is and just not enough people know about this power until this will be meta?

Koensol

Malevolent offfering

How can people honestly choose agony over malevolent offering. If you have a decent health pool and survivability you can use this skill quite a bit with virtually no magicka cost. It heals for a crapload and gives minor mending. All I know is that my BG group members love me for slotting this skill.

Yet people would still choose the other option: one of the most crappy skills ever to be in the nb arsenal. A cc that breaks on any damage, does *** damage and serves no real purpose other than to cheese with meteor. To have a skill on your bar just for that is a big waste.

Nyladreas

Malevolent offfering

100% for Malevolent Offering.

I would honestly also love to see the other morph heal my own character as well, currently a morph not worth as much in my opinion.

Although... I'm not entirely sure how that would work with the health cost If it had to have a regular cost, I would make it stamina. Just for the fact that Magblades already get a ton of HoTs, Nearly Unlimited Cloak and Other Self heals and full access to Resto Staff... Stamblades only have Vigor and Rally.

Vigor especially doesn't fit the class fantasy at all tbh, with its shiny golden explosion effect. And as current PVP stands, unless u compensate with sets, Rally is pretty much a must have. Which results in a crappy build diversity.

Running DW/Bow and being able to stand on the frontline is what I'd love to do more rather than 2H/DW 2H/Bow.

It is possible don't get me wrong, but it's not ideal

ll_Rev

Agony

kikkehs wrote: »

One: PvE Dot Standard in a regular PvE rotation

second: a situational ability only used by a minority of the playerbase.

Uhm, I wonder what will win!

agony won lmao

Iruil_ESO

Malevolent offfering

I used the old agony on my dd magicka nightblade in pvp with others dot and it was very fun.
I use the new malevolent offering on my healer nightblade in both pve and pvp and i like it too.
I'd love to have one morph for each instead of two for healing.

ascan7

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

Datthaw

Malevolent offfering

People can't wrap their minds around magnb not being dds. Throw on some spc/trans gear and you got yourself a pretty slick healing class with all the hots and now a burst. Purge into cloak for extra slipperyness. People just want to hit things hard, no one cares about group utility anymore for some reason

Metemsycosis

I miss casting meteor and then agony and spectral bow. So sweet. But this new heal is cool too I guess.

IZZEFlameLash

Agony

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

Koensol

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

Have you ever played a magblade healer? Because I can assure you they provide a lot of utility in pvp as well as being more than capable of keeping themself and group members alive.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Koensol wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

Have you ever played a magblade healer? Because I can assure you they provide a lot of utility in pvp as well as being more than capable of keeping themself and group members alive.

It is evident this individual has not.

Koensol

Malevolent offfering

exeeter702 wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

Have you ever played a magblade healer? Because I can assure you they provide a lot of utility in pvp as well as being more than capable of keeping themself and group members alive.

It is evident this individual has not.

It is just sad that nb healers are still being frowned upon in 2018, while the healing potential they have should be clear as day... I consistently pump out the most healing in all the BG's I currently play. But tbh I am tired of having to justify my build to other people when they scoff at seeing a nb healer. Such narrow minded sheep.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

And this here folks is the real narrative.

"Offering exists on a class that shouldnt heal, therefore offering is a weak skill"

People come in here out of spite with zero relative experience and start arguments because it doesn't align with their views, in this case, nb healers. If you want to make a thread discussing templar vs nb healers in pvp be my guest, id be happy to dismantle any points in that thread.

This thread is about offering vs agony. And any niche utility we were ever able to extract from agony was small enough to easily justify the trade for a powerful burst heal to further enable NBs as healer. Agony allowed for meteor setups from a range where fear was not applicable. It was nice for dismounting players in cyrodil. It functioned as a stun catagory that was a relic of ESOs early design, hard long term CCs that break on damage intended to lock down mobs for difficult pulls and force stuns on players in an environment where break free didnt exist. In real practice, any situation where agony was used in group pvp required very strict situational coordination or else you risk giving away CC immunity for free since ANYTHING would break it and grant immuntiy without even hitting the targets stamina pool.

This is honestly exhausting. Offering is a great skill, its effectively the strongest burst heal in the game, with a very balanced risk vs reward mechanic that absolutely rewards smart play and engages the player in managing its cost in real time and is a welcome addition to the already strong nb healer. If you are going to try and dismiss it, at least do it armed with proper experience instead of some weak attampt pretense claiming NBs shouldnt heal therefor the skill is inherently undesirable.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Edziu wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

No but i am... the skill is unquestionably strong. You dont know what you are talking about because you have yet to use it on a build it is meant for.

In pvp this heal is insane. The health cost is negligible. It is a selfless burst heal that crits for 12k in no cp pvp environments, does so through los and regardless of elevation.

The skill is incredible. I would appreciate those defending the skill not spread misinformation about it being weak in pvp. Yes in pve it is very strong as well.

so are you saying here we need to start nerf threads about this because people dont know how powerfull it is and just not enough people know about this power until this will be meta?

Would you mind enlightening me on how you came to that ridiculous conclusion?

Dont put words in my mouth, its not impossible for a skill to be well designed and be strong. sorting out slight hyperbole with a base point on the internet is tricky business i know.

Dracan_Fontom

Malevolent offfering

Only thing that could make Offering better is being able to heal yourself with it.

Metemsycosis

exeeter702 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

And you are on PvP forum and talk about this being a PvE skill? GG.

This is a poll for removing an ability from the whole game, not PvP only.
And really, i agony returned no one would use it. Most of you are just voting Agony out of spite, it's a crap skill.

If Agony returned, more people would slot this. As is, it is of no real use in PvP. Complete waste unless you are in a zerg. Even ball groups will not pick you up when Templar healers can offer more utility and mNBs are best utilized as bombblade not healer.

And this here folks is the real narrative.

"Offering exists on a class that shouldnt heal, therefore offering is a weak skill"

People come in here out of spite with zero relative experience and start arguments because it doesn't align with their views, in this case, nb healers. If you want to make a thread discussing templar vs nb healers in pvp be my guest, id be happy to dismantle any points in that thread.

This thread is about offering vs agony. And any niche utility we were ever able to extract from agony was small enough to easily justify the trade for a powerful burst heal to further enable NBs as healer. Agony allowed for meteor setups from a range where fear was not applicable. It was nice for dismounting players in cyrodil. It functioned as a stun catagory that was a relic of ESOs early design, hard long term CCs that break on damage intended to lock down mobs for difficult pulls and force stuns on players in an environment where break free didnt exist. In real practice, any situation where agony was used in group pvp required very strict situational coordination or else you risk giving away CC immunity for free since ANYTHING would break it and grant immuntiy without even hitting the targets stamina pool.

This is honestly exhausting. Offering is a great skill, its effectively the strongest burst heal in the game, with a very balanced risk vs reward mechanic that absolutely rewards smart play and engages the player in managing its cost in real time and is a welcome addition to the already strong nb healer. If you are going to try and dismiss it, at least do it armed with proper experience instead of some weak attampt pretense claiming NBs shouldnt heal therefor the skill is inherently undesirable.

Like I'd said elsewhere put this with something like Dragonguard and or transmutation and you quickly have a great source of nb healing that feels pvp oriented to begin with. A part of the nb healing strategy is don't take too much fire, as other healers might be forced to. offering rewards some use of stealth in combat.

Agony wasn't niche it just wasn't popular as destro became meta The maelific morph was really a great 1v tool because you could chain damage all members of a group (so against like 5 people someone might take 5 maelific pops) and still use debilitate to snare and dot.

exeeter702

Malevolent offfering

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Only thing that could make Offering better is being able to heal yourself with it.

That would be competely overpowered.