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[PvE Stam review] Recap of Summerset changes balancing
Asmael
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Disclaimer: this thread aims at answering some of the questions around stamina specs, in particular the good ol' Khajiit vs Redguard debate as well as how it relates to light/heavy attack rotations and sustain as a whole, the new jewelry, approaching the sustain aspect of stamina DDs and such. Data collected should not be considered as a "end-all-be-all" but a guideline for builds as a whole and comparing similar setups with controlled variations. A lot of aspects have been heavily simplified to be readable for more people, as such they cannot be considered to be fully descriptive of the ingame mechanics.
While this thread is primarily targeted at stamina DDs in PvE, it doesn't hurt to know more even as a magicka player
TL;DR:
Summerset changes overview, usual things and relevant info
Below list is mostly for those who skipped netch poots.
Consequences of new jewelry traits
The 2 most significant traits this patch are Infused and Bloodthirsty, respectively increasing jewelry effects by 60% or damage to enemies below 25% HP by 10% per piece.
The first comparison to make is between the older Robust trait and Infused combined with a Weapon damage enchant. Robust jewelry provides 870 stamina and 174 weapon damage (assuming rune & jewelry upgraded to gold), while an infused ring with a weapon damage enchant provides 278 weapon damage. The resulting power for each of them can be approximated to this formula:
Base = (Max stamina * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (Weapon damage * Weapon damage multipliers)*
* Said formulae has a few variations and is meant as a comparison tool only. 10.46 is an approximation to estimate that for every weapon damage point invested, you'd need 10.46 stamina to get equivalent damage.
Assuming no multipliers for now, an infused ring will simply result in 278 base strength, while a robust ring will result in (870/10.46)+174 ~= 257.
Due to weapon damage having more multipliers readily available, it will always outperform Robust in terms of raw damage, to list a few:
A point that has been brought several times and is bound to be debunked once and for all:
For short: yes, LA/HA scale much better with max stamina than before, but it was because they scaled extremely badly in the first place. This means Infused remains the better choice over Robust.
Now for Bloodthirsty vs Infused: this is much more complicated to calculate, since Bloodthirsty is a damage multiplier, while Infused is a flat increase. Builds benefit from a fair balance between having high enough base stats and damage multipliers. As such, there is no definitive answer, but they both perform in an extremely similar fashion in general. To keep it simple: Bloodthirsty allows you to spend less time in execute phases, which can be valuable for risky fights (Rakkhat) or if a large part of your overall damage is from proc sets (Selene, Relequen...) since those won't be buffed by Infused. Infused is a strong allrounder which allows you to reach execute faster, buffs your healing (Vigor & extras), benefits from having most of your damage from abilities/LA/HA.
Don't torture yourself over choosing between these two, you won't really notice a difference.
Heavy vs Light attacks
Stamina heavy attacks will result in less damage, light attacks will result in more damage. There is no definite rule but 2 light attacks will deal overall more damage than a single heavy attack. Considering that heavy attacks with Dual wield (DW) are the most common, this has another significant impact: by the time you channel a heavy attack into an ability, you can do 2 light attacks and 2 abilities. As such, being able to sustain a light attack rotation becomes extremely beneficial if you can do so without losing too much of your offensive stats (critical hits, weapon damage...). The main exception to the rule being stamina DKs, as they benefit from Molten armaments which increases their HA damage by 40%, which while still favorable to a pure light attack rotation, it does reduce the margin between a heavy-oriented rotation and a mostly light-attacks based rotation. For all other classes, it becomes a question of finding the breaking point between sustaining with very few heavy attacks (none if possible) and retaining the highest stats possible.
NMG / Sunderflame nerf
The removal of NMG (Night Mother's gaze) and Sunderflame as support sets drastically reduces the amount of armor penetrating debuffs accessible to stamina DDs. As a reminder, all NPCs in dungeons have 18,200 armor, and we can break though this using:
For instance, a stamina DD in a raid using the Lover mundus and TFS attacking a target under the effects of Major Fracture will have:
18200 - (100 + 4196 + 4300 + 5280) = 4324 armor left.
You have to see with your group which remaining debuffs are available to avoid reducing armor below 0, since overpenetration doesn't add any damage. Due to the popularity of the new trial set (aka Relequen), Lover is a very potent mundus choice for pure damage for stamina specs.
Redguard versus Khajiit - the ultimate battle
That's one for @gethemshauna and this thread.
SURELY there must be one ultimate answer (beside 42) to this question, right?????!!1 Well, there is, but it's not a simple one and is deeply tied to the way all dedicated damage dealing builds are made.
Before we ask the question of which race is the better pick, we must do several things, so let's get started.
How much sustain is needed as a DD?
Just enough.
Your goal is to make sure the fight is as short as possible with the resources at your disposal, in this case: your stamina pool. You don't want it to be depleted before the fight ends, but you don't want it to be full when it ends either, since this means you could probably have sacrificed a bit of sustain for more overall damage.
Now, "just enough" is hard to pinpoint, especially if you don't have the necessary experience, so your best bet is to start with high sustain and slowly decrease it after a few fights until you reach the "I can't lose any more sustain" point. Of course, feel free to add what is required if you feel the need to use your resources to make up for mistakes or as a backup (tank RIP'd and you now have to kite the boss? Better have some stamina left...).
In a group situation, you need to also be aware of the synergies available to you. You are doing random dungeons with people you don't know? Should probably have a bit more sustain than usual. You are running in a dedicated trial guild with Energy orbs flying around? You probably don't need as much sustain.
Comparing the stat bonuses
As a reminder, those are the relevant bonuses for both races:
Which basically ends up being choosing between 8% weapon critical or 10% max stam + ~120 stam per second.
The first thing to compare are the weapon critical and the maximum stamina bonuses, since I've probably read about 50 different statements about these ranging from:
Ok, remember the formula listed previously? We'll abbreviate a bit:
Base = (Max stam * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (Weapon damage * WD multipliers)
Let's add critical multipliers:
Base w/ critical hits = ( (Max stam * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (WD * WD multipliers) ) * ( 1 + critical chance * critical damage)
Phew, ok, let's pick a stamina setup like the one in the spoiler below:
Race changing it to a redguard means I'll get 34301 maximum stamina, but 8% less critical. Now those stats can be drastically changed by various buffs, but we'll use those as a starting point. Let's plug the values in :
No racials base w/ critical hits = ( 32043 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.611 * 0.8) = 6525 * 1.4888 = 9714
Khajiit base w/ critical hits = ( 32043 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.691 * 0.8) = 6525 * 1.5528 = 10132
Redguard w/ critical hits = ( 34301 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.611 * 0.8) = 6741 * 1.4888 = 10036
If you want to make the final result more understandable, imagine it's the DPS without taking into account anything that doesn't scale on both flat stats and critical hits. So for this particular situation, Khajiit beats Redguard. The maximum stamina actually results in slightly more than a 3% power increase compared to having no racials at all, while Khajiit is a bit more than 4%. Well that ain't much, but it does add up in endgame builds.
Putting things into perspective, it's not too surprising, since stamina builds get the majority (50%+) of their flat damage from their weapon damage. 10% seems to be a lot, except it applies to your base stats, not your current maximum stamina value, hence the difference in max stamina between Khajiit and Redguard being ~2300 and not 3200 or more.
Adding to this that max stamina is now lower than before in Summerset due to the jewelry changes, and it gets pretty hard to find endgame builds which get more damage than Khajiit in theory. So let's do a few tests with a setup which has no sustain issues, be it for redguard or Khajiit.
*snaps fingers* "I hereby summon you, test subjects X and Y!"
Let's use the same setup as before, both in Khajiit & redguard variation:
You can find all the raw data at the end of the post if interested, to sum up 2 series of 3 parses on a 6m HP target dummy, this is what we have as average DPS of 3 parses:
Khajiit: (47108 + 46365 + 47206) / 3 = 46893 DPS
Redguard: (46158 + 45666 + 45448) / 3 = 45757 DPS
That's a 2% difference in favor of Khajiit, considering trial & error, PTS lag (Hnng) and natural variations coming from randomized distribution of critical hits and RNG procs.
Looks like it's time to reroll Khajiit, right? Well that's all good and stuff...
However...
We only considered the difference in terms of pure damage, ignoring that Redguards get about 120 stamina per second if you proc the Adrenaline rush passive on cooldown. After all, the above setup was really easy on sustain, so let's have a look at stamblades, since they rock a light attack rotation and can definitely benefit from the extra sustain*.
* On stamblades
The gear used is the same as for the DK parses:
This time, we'll take a look at both the overall DPS, but also the sustain (drain & regen) - again you'll find the parses at the end of this post:
Khajiit - average 52786 DPS - 1334 regen / 1509 > -175 stam/sec
Redguard - average 52972 DPS - 1485 regen / 1586 > -101 stam/sec
We end up with less than 0.5% difference in DPS, which falls into error margins. The stamina recovery however is higher and compensates for the stamina drain. As a result, Redguards end up being able to last much longer using the same rotation. The rate at which stamina is drained may not seem like a huge difference, but when checking the actual numbers:
Khajiit: 29854 stam w/ 175 drain > 170 seconds until no stamina left
Redguard: 32724 stam w/ 101 drain > 324 seconds until no stamina left
Well, you don't want to end up having to spam heavy attacks as a stamblade if the fight drags. Woops, might stick to redguard for now.
So... Conclusion?
You need to know how much sustain you'll need, as well as how much you'll get (synergies, orbs, support sets...). Ideally, everything else is put into maximising your overall damage to shorten the fights as much as possible.
What about finding another source of sustain and stick to Khajiit?
That's a tricky question. The usual maximum HP / stamina food is a strong pick, because it's a lot of stats. Dubious Camoran throne for instance is a drink which provides stamina recovery as well, but if you try to make up for the missing HP / stamina as well, you'll end up with less stats as a whole (considering maximum stamina / HP & stamina recovery). The mundus allows us to have access to a lot of penetration - an extremely valuable stat, Relequen (or TFS if you don't have it) is too good to pass, your weapon enchants provide a significant damage boost...
And it happens to be the same thing with Redguard and Khajiit. Khajiit has less overall stats compared to Redguard, because not all of those are relevant as a damage dealer. It's not so much a question of lacking racial benefits as a whole, but the lack of relevant racial passives giving the edge to redguards.
So to sum the initial question: not really. That said, if you still prefer light attack rotations and having more sustain, you can do it with a relatively small drawback of having less overall damage, and not by much. As such, Khajiit fits stam DK well due to the sheer sustain of heavy attack rotations and flat resource returns available, but it simply doesn't shine as much on other specs.
More later? Maaaaaybeeeee...
Raw data
Heavy attack rotation DK (Khajiit)
LA > Hail > LA > Poison Injection > LA > Razor caltrops > LA > Noxious breath (LA > Molten armaments if needed) (swap)
HA > Rearming trap > HA > Venomous claw > HA > Rending slashes (+flexible Flames of Oblivion / Deadly cloak)
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Heavy attack rotation DK (Redguard)
Same rotation as before
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation DK (Redguard)
Pick the heavy attack rotation, add Acid Spray on backbar and a single heavy attack on the front bar.
Is absolutely unsustainable on Khajiit unless you swap a lot of things around. That's not mentioning the food used would never see actual use in trials. Stam DKs don't really have synergies with extra stamina recovery due to the lack of appropriate passives, add extra heavy attack damage on top and you end up wondering why you don't just pick a stamblade. Anyway, below is SCIENCE!
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation NB (Khajiit)
Only light attacks used, sustainable with Leeching Strikes and Dubious Camoran Throne, you'll end up VERY low on stamina however at the very end of parses.
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation NB (Redguard)
Same as Khajiit, similar results, but you'll have just enough sustain with Leeching strikes to maintain the same rotation indefinitely.
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
While this thread is primarily targeted at stamina DDs in PvE, it doesn't hurt to know more even as a magicka player
TL;DR:
The cake is a lie. There is no TL;DR, because otherwise people will just quote it without thoughts.
AND DON'T QUOTE THE FULL POST BY SITHIS! Have some pity for the peeps having to scroll through all my rant...
AND DON'T QUOTE THE FULL POST BY SITHIS! Have some pity for the peeps having to scroll through all my rant...
Summerset changes overview, usual things and relevant info
Below list is mostly for those who skipped netch poots.
- Introduction of jewelry traits replacing Robust (Infused / Bloodthirsty in particular)
- Introduction of a single-target stamina spammable (Crushing blow)
- Introduction of Relequen (+synergy with Selene), adding back a lot of non-stat scaling damage back in parses
- Less damage from heavy attacks, more damage from light attacks
- Light attacks now scale in the same way as abilities in regard to attribute scaling
- Set rebalance (Mechanical acuity nerf) and new options due to jewelry retraiting
- NMG / Sunderflame nerf
Consequences of new jewelry traits
The 2 most significant traits this patch are Infused and Bloodthirsty, respectively increasing jewelry effects by 60% or damage to enemies below 25% HP by 10% per piece.
The first comparison to make is between the older Robust trait and Infused combined with a Weapon damage enchant. Robust jewelry provides 870 stamina and 174 weapon damage (assuming rune & jewelry upgraded to gold), while an infused ring with a weapon damage enchant provides 278 weapon damage. The resulting power for each of them can be approximated to this formula:
Base = (Max stamina * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (Weapon damage * Weapon damage multipliers)*
* Said formulae has a few variations and is meant as a comparison tool only. 10.46 is an approximation to estimate that for every weapon damage point invested, you'd need 10.46 stamina to get equivalent damage.
Assuming no multipliers for now, an infused ring will simply result in 278 base strength, while a robust ring will result in (870/10.46)+174 ~= 257.
Due to weapon damage having more multipliers readily available, it will always outperform Robust in terms of raw damage, to list a few:
- Racial passive: 10%
- Undaunted: 0/2/4%
- Warhorn: 10%
- Bound armaments: 8% (sorcerer only)
- Minor brutality: 5%
- Major brutality: 20%
- Fighters guild: 3% (per ability)
- Flawless Dawnbreaker: 5%
- Expert mage: 2% (per ability for sorcerer only)
- Balanced Warrior: 6% (templar only)
A point that has been brought several times and is bound to be debunked once and for all:
This specific line can lead people to believe that Robust might be a better pick than Infused still, due to an overall higher scaling of light & heavy attacks (LA/HA) with Max stamina compared to pre-Summerset. However this specifically states that LA/HA scale the same way as abilities. Essentially, while LA/HA used to benefit 4 times more from weapon damage than stamina before compared to now, they will get proportional increases in damage whether you invest 10.46 stamina or 1 weapon damage.Rebalanced the Light and Heavy Attack damage scaling ratios so that Light and Heavy Attacks now scale their damage in the same way that normal abilities do – Max Magicka and Max Stamina is now a greater contributing factor towards their damage.
For short: yes, LA/HA scale much better with max stamina than before, but it was because they scaled extremely badly in the first place. This means Infused remains the better choice over Robust.
Now for Bloodthirsty vs Infused: this is much more complicated to calculate, since Bloodthirsty is a damage multiplier, while Infused is a flat increase. Builds benefit from a fair balance between having high enough base stats and damage multipliers. As such, there is no definitive answer, but they both perform in an extremely similar fashion in general. To keep it simple: Bloodthirsty allows you to spend less time in execute phases, which can be valuable for risky fights (Rakkhat) or if a large part of your overall damage is from proc sets (Selene, Relequen...) since those won't be buffed by Infused. Infused is a strong allrounder which allows you to reach execute faster, buffs your healing (Vigor & extras), benefits from having most of your damage from abilities/LA/HA.
Don't torture yourself over choosing between these two, you won't really notice a difference.
Heavy vs Light attacks
Stamina heavy attacks will result in less damage, light attacks will result in more damage. There is no definite rule but 2 light attacks will deal overall more damage than a single heavy attack. Considering that heavy attacks with Dual wield (DW) are the most common, this has another significant impact: by the time you channel a heavy attack into an ability, you can do 2 light attacks and 2 abilities. As such, being able to sustain a light attack rotation becomes extremely beneficial if you can do so without losing too much of your offensive stats (critical hits, weapon damage...). The main exception to the rule being stamina DKs, as they benefit from Molten armaments which increases their HA damage by 40%, which while still favorable to a pure light attack rotation, it does reduce the margin between a heavy-oriented rotation and a mostly light-attacks based rotation. For all other classes, it becomes a question of finding the breaking point between sustaining with very few heavy attacks (none if possible) and retaining the highest stats possible.
NMG / Sunderflame nerf
The removal of NMG (Night Mother's gaze) and Sunderflame as support sets drastically reduces the amount of armor penetrating debuffs accessible to stamina DDs. As a reminder, all NPCs in dungeons have 18,200 armor, and we can break though this using:
- Base: 100
- Major Fracture: 5280
- Minor Fracture: 1320
- Alkosh: 3010
- Sharpened: 2752 (2x 1h or a 2h weapon)
- Lover (7xGold in Div): 4196
- Crusher: 1622
- Crusher (Infused): 2108
- Crusher (Torug's Pact): 2108
- Crusher (Infused + Torug's Pact): 2740
- Twice-Fanged Snake (TFS): 4300
- Spriggan's thorn: 3450
- Champions points - Piercing: ...?
For instance, a stamina DD in a raid using the Lover mundus and TFS attacking a target under the effects of Major Fracture will have:
18200 - (100 + 4196 + 4300 + 5280) = 4324 armor left.
You have to see with your group which remaining debuffs are available to avoid reducing armor below 0, since overpenetration doesn't add any damage. Due to the popularity of the new trial set (aka Relequen), Lover is a very potent mundus choice for pure damage for stamina specs.
Redguard versus Khajiit - the ultimate battle
That's one for @gethemshauna and this thread.
SURELY there must be one ultimate answer (beside 42) to this question, right?????!!1 Well, there is, but it's not a simple one and is deeply tied to the way all dedicated damage dealing builds are made.
Before we ask the question of which race is the better pick, we must do several things, so let's get started.
How much sustain is needed as a DD?
Just enough.
Your goal is to make sure the fight is as short as possible with the resources at your disposal, in this case: your stamina pool. You don't want it to be depleted before the fight ends, but you don't want it to be full when it ends either, since this means you could probably have sacrificed a bit of sustain for more overall damage.
Now, "just enough" is hard to pinpoint, especially if you don't have the necessary experience, so your best bet is to start with high sustain and slowly decrease it after a few fights until you reach the "I can't lose any more sustain" point. Of course, feel free to add what is required if you feel the need to use your resources to make up for mistakes or as a backup (tank RIP'd and you now have to kite the boss? Better have some stamina left...).
In a group situation, you need to also be aware of the synergies available to you. You are doing random dungeons with people you don't know? Should probably have a bit more sustain than usual. You are running in a dedicated trial guild with Energy orbs flying around? You probably don't need as much sustain.
Comparing the stat bonuses
As a reminder, those are the relevant bonuses for both races:
- Khajiit - 10% stamina recovery, 8% weapon critical
- Redguard - 9% stamina recovery, 10% maximum stamina, 792 stamina on melee attacks (5s cooldown)
Which basically ends up being choosing between 8% weapon critical or 10% max stam + ~120 stam per second.
The first thing to compare are the weapon critical and the maximum stamina bonuses, since I've probably read about 50 different statements about these ranging from:
ToWeapon critical beast the crap outta max stam
OrYou'll get 4-6% bonus DPS from crit on the Khajiit, vs 8-10% DPS from the extra Stam on the Redguard
They just the same, but redguard has the sustain too
Ok, remember the formula listed previously? We'll abbreviate a bit:
Base = (Max stam * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (Weapon damage * WD multipliers)
Let's add critical multipliers:
Base w/ critical hits = ( (Max stam * Max stam multipliers) / 10.46 + (WD * WD multipliers) ) * ( 1 + critical chance * critical damage)
Phew, ok, let's pick a stamina setup like the one in the spoiler below:
Race changing it to a redguard means I'll get 34301 maximum stamina, but 8% less critical. Now those stats can be drastically changed by various buffs, but we'll use those as a starting point. Let's plug the values in :
No racials base w/ critical hits = ( 32043 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.611 * 0.8) = 6525 * 1.4888 = 9714
Khajiit base w/ critical hits = ( 32043 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.691 * 0.8) = 6525 * 1.5528 = 10132
Redguard w/ critical hits = ( 34301 / 10.46 + 3462 ) * ( 1 + 0.611 * 0.8) = 6741 * 1.4888 = 10036
If you want to make the final result more understandable, imagine it's the DPS without taking into account anything that doesn't scale on both flat stats and critical hits. So for this particular situation, Khajiit beats Redguard. The maximum stamina actually results in slightly more than a 3% power increase compared to having no racials at all, while Khajiit is a bit more than 4%. Well that ain't much, but it does add up in endgame builds.
Putting things into perspective, it's not too surprising, since stamina builds get the majority (50%+) of their flat damage from their weapon damage. 10% seems to be a lot, except it applies to your base stats, not your current maximum stamina value, hence the difference in max stamina between Khajiit and Redguard being ~2300 and not 3200 or more.
Adding to this that max stamina is now lower than before in Summerset due to the jewelry changes, and it gets pretty hard to find endgame builds which get more damage than Khajiit in theory. So let's do a few tests with a setup which has no sustain issues, be it for redguard or Khajiit.
*snaps fingers* "I hereby summon you, test subjects X and Y!"
Let's use the same setup as before, both in Khajiit & redguard variation:
You can find all the raw data at the end of the post if interested, to sum up 2 series of 3 parses on a 6m HP target dummy, this is what we have as average DPS of 3 parses:
Khajiit: (47108 + 46365 + 47206) / 3 = 46893 DPS
Redguard: (46158 + 45666 + 45448) / 3 = 45757 DPS
That's a 2% difference in favor of Khajiit, considering trial & error, PTS lag (Hnng) and natural variations coming from randomized distribution of critical hits and RNG procs.
Looks like it's time to reroll Khajiit, right? Well that's all good and stuff...
However...
We only considered the difference in terms of pure damage, ignoring that Redguards get about 120 stamina per second if you proc the Adrenaline rush passive on cooldown. After all, the above setup was really easy on sustain, so let's have a look at stamblades, since they rock a light attack rotation and can definitely benefit from the extra sustain*.
* On stamblades
On this note, stamblades happen to be perfectly fitted for a light attack rotation: both Leeching Strikes and Grim focus benefit from light attacks more, they have several "free" casts between Assassin's will and Incap and just happen to have the best overall stamina sustain. What ultimates you choose can indirectly help your rotation, after all, better cast an incap every X seconds that costs no stamina than, say, Surprise attack. Ultimately, there isn't too much difference between ultimate combinations and you can swap those around as you see fit.
The gear used is the same as for the DK parses:
This time, we'll take a look at both the overall DPS, but also the sustain (drain & regen) - again you'll find the parses at the end of this post:
Khajiit - average 52786 DPS - 1334 regen / 1509 > -175 stam/sec
- 52246 DPS - 1396 regen / 1599 drain > -203 stam/sec
- 52774 DPS - 1375 regen / 1546 drain > -171 stam/sec
- 53340 DPS - 1233 regen / 1384 drain > -151 stam/sec
Redguard - average 52972 DPS - 1485 regen / 1586 > -101 stam/sec
- 53230 DPS - 1529 regen / 1549 drain > -20 stam/sec
- 53083 DPS - 1453 regen / 1607 drain > -154 stam/sec
- 52604 DPS - 1474 regen / 1604 drain > -130 stam/sec
We end up with less than 0.5% difference in DPS, which falls into error margins. The stamina recovery however is higher and compensates for the stamina drain. As a result, Redguards end up being able to last much longer using the same rotation. The rate at which stamina is drained may not seem like a huge difference, but when checking the actual numbers:
Khajiit: 29854 stam w/ 175 drain > 170 seconds until no stamina left
Redguard: 32724 stam w/ 101 drain > 324 seconds until no stamina left
Well, you don't want to end up having to spam heavy attacks as a stamblade if the fight drags. Woops, might stick to redguard for now.
So... Conclusion?
You need to know how much sustain you'll need, as well as how much you'll get (synergies, orbs, support sets...). Ideally, everything else is put into maximising your overall damage to shorten the fights as much as possible.
What about finding another source of sustain and stick to Khajiit?
That's a tricky question. The usual maximum HP / stamina food is a strong pick, because it's a lot of stats. Dubious Camoran throne for instance is a drink which provides stamina recovery as well, but if you try to make up for the missing HP / stamina as well, you'll end up with less stats as a whole (considering maximum stamina / HP & stamina recovery). The mundus allows us to have access to a lot of penetration - an extremely valuable stat, Relequen (or TFS if you don't have it) is too good to pass, your weapon enchants provide a significant damage boost...
And it happens to be the same thing with Redguard and Khajiit. Khajiit has less overall stats compared to Redguard, because not all of those are relevant as a damage dealer. It's not so much a question of lacking racial benefits as a whole, but the lack of relevant racial passives giving the edge to redguards.
So to sum the initial question: not really. That said, if you still prefer light attack rotations and having more sustain, you can do it with a relatively small drawback of having less overall damage, and not by much. As such, Khajiit fits stam DK well due to the sheer sustain of heavy attack rotations and flat resource returns available, but it simply doesn't shine as much on other specs.
More later? Maaaaaybeeeee...
Raw data
Heavy attack rotation DK (Khajiit)
LA > Hail > LA > Poison Injection > LA > Razor caltrops > LA > Noxious breath (LA > Molten armaments if needed) (swap)
HA > Rearming trap > HA > Venomous claw > HA > Rending slashes (+flexible Flames of Oblivion / Deadly cloak)
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Heavy attack rotation DK (Redguard)
Same rotation as before
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation DK (Redguard)
Pick the heavy attack rotation, add Acid Spray on backbar and a single heavy attack on the front bar.
Is absolutely unsustainable on Khajiit unless you swap a lot of things around. That's not mentioning the food used would never see actual use in trials. Stam DKs don't really have synergies with extra stamina recovery due to the lack of appropriate passives, add extra heavy attack damage on top and you end up wondering why you don't just pick a stamblade. Anyway, below is SCIENCE!
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation NB (Khajiit)
Only light attacks used, sustainable with Leeching Strikes and Dubious Camoran Throne, you'll end up VERY low on stamina however at the very end of parses.
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
Light attack rotation NB (Redguard)
Same as Khajiit, similar results, but you'll have just enough sustain with Leeching strikes to maintain the same rotation indefinitely.
Setup
Parse 1
Parse 2
Parse 3
PC EU - Zahraji of the Void, aka "Kitty", the fluffiest salmon genocider in town.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.
Poke @AsmaeI (last letter is uppercase "i") on PC EU or Asmael#9325 on Discord and receive a meow today.
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getemshauna✭✭✭✭✭I would give you ten awesomes if I could for this.Founder of Call of the Undaunted
Youtube Channel3 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Great write up, now do a calculation for mauls in your penetration area.Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on June 25, 2018 3:24AM0 -
AusvenSoul ShrivenI was looking for this kind of post since a long time lol.
Great maths! A few questions tho:
-What about other sources of sustain for the khajiit? Like Stam regen glyphs, Stormfist, etc...
-Why not vampire?
-What rotation are you using for the NB? I tried some rotations I saw in up to date videos with the same setup as yours but I barely manage to hit 50k.
Thanks!Edited by Ausven on June 26, 2018 8:46AM0
