PvP - this community deserves an explanation

loyalhabsfan

Bought ESO on Console the day it came out, and I think I'm reaching my breaking point. I'll do my best to stay objective here as the current state of the game is immensely frustrating for me, and I haven't seen anything from Zos that helps relieve those frustrations.

First...

Cyrodiil
How is it possible that nothing has changed? We have the same map, with the same keeps, with the same tiny areas of foot traffic which promotes large group play (which doesn't help lag). I legitimately am asking if there is a reason this hasn't been addressed? We have this enormous, beautiful land of Cyrodiil; but there is zero incentive to spread the PvP out. It has been the same grind of castle flipping for three years now. There have been thousands of ideas from the community to implement new changes that would spread out the PvP and promote small scale. Everything from completely separate PvP servers with flags spread across Tamriel to take/defend major cities and towns, to new objective based targets within the dead zones of Cyrodiil. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any ideas have been shared from Zos in regards to open world PvP. Is there a reason? Imagine logging in with a few friends and deciding you want to go take Mournhold and defend it on your own as a team, with no access to wayshrines. True open world PvP. A zerg in this environment would not be effective and the fighting would be spread out. For those large groups who enjoy the massive keep fights? They will still be there...but why do the rest of us have to get sucked into that?

PvP Rank System
Ranking up your PvP rank in this game should mean something. Right now it's just a time-grind, having zero reflection of a characters ability to kill other players. Has there ever been any discussion to a fame system similar to Everquest? Something to promote fighting balanced fights (ex. being if you die while outnumbering your opponent, you lose fame...). There is a community of very skilled PvP'ers that are leaving the game simply because nothing is keeping them here. A rank system like this with some notoriety involved would encourage these players to stick around. After all, PvE players get it in their titles and achievements... Imagine if all of the top achievments and titles from PvE came from just grinding mindlessly for thousands of hours. You all know what I'm talking about, these double bow 40k health builds using Bone Shield that are "Grand Overlords" lol. Simply meaningless. I consider myself to be a good PvP player, but sometimes I get my butt kicked. Those elite players deserve to have something that reflects their skill.

Lag/Prioritization of Content
In my time played since launch, this game has never performed worse than it is right now. The frozen screens, the inability to break cc's, health desync's, load screen times, sprint bugs, it's unbelievable. I have a really hard time understanding how this is possible considering the amount of income this game has generated since launch. Clearly, you are a business and you need to provide content that generates income. However, I really think you're tripping over a dollar to save a dime here. Overlooking the PvP performance and content is costing you more than you think. There aren't really any other MMO style games on console with PvP, and the MMO's on PC are thin lately as well, there's a chance to dominate this sector of gaming and it's being completely overlooked. Maybe, just MAYBE, before another DLC is implemented with a new zone/skill line/grouping of sets, could a discussion occur about addressing the issues within the game first and improving on them? Everyone I know over the course of three years in this game no longer plays because they haven't received any content relative to their portion of the game that they enjoy. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here. I know you have a QA team that works hard and generally does fix most basic issues. What I'm saying is, maybe management can pump the brakes on pushing NEW NEW NEW content, and look at balance/performance first. It can be done, but it's at the cost of pushing back the next DLC. Zos does not have bad developers. I can see the talent there, and the creativity/worksmanship. With that being said, the time needs to be provided from the top down in order to address these issues thoroughly. Quality over quantity.

Owning your mistakes
Honestly, the current state of the game disappoints me. I say that because I love this game and have supported it since day one. Sure, it has a solid population right now but is than excuse for the poor implementation of content? There are several forum posts here that are well thought out and most of them don't have a single response from Zos. Sure, some are questionable lol and I understand not every post warrants a response, but I'd really like to see an improvement in how you treat your players. They are your customers. Grown men and women taking time out of their day to give you free feedback to help support your product should not go unanswered or unappreciated. With the launch of summerset, dozens of issues have arised and the community is just trying to help isolate and fix these issues, please treat them with the respect they deserve. It upsets me when I see Zos close down threads that are literally asking for a response from you in regards to game issues, like...what? Based on the amount of money several of us have spent on this game, we deserve the courtesy of something like, "We understand the game is currently underperforming, and we are doing everything in our power to address these issues." What happens when you don't blast that message out to the community? People start to think you don't care... when it's one DLC after DLC with an increasing number of issues, the quality of the game decreases and your player base will have a rotating door with slightly more people leaving than entering.

I hope my message was portrayed respectfully, as I only express these concerns with hopes of change.

loyal

amir412

ZOS
D
O
E
S
NOT
CARE.

zyk

The_Protagonist

Finally a good post, that does not cry about dying, but presenting real problems that must be addressed.

Morgul667

Sad but true

Im losing hope about Zo$

It gets worst everytime, bugs are reported on pts or forums but they go live anyway. Pvp is a mess, performance is bad while it was supposed to improve.

Only zos interventions are to close threads.

You make a good points and expressed them nicely but i dont see them changing

Tonturri

Games are supposed to become MORE polished as times goes on, not (somehow) less.

Zos needs to stop trying to bury the game's issues with more equally unpolished content.

Drdeath20

Tonturri wrote: »

Games are supposed to become MORE polished as times goes on, not (somehow) less.

Zos needs to stop trying to bury the game's issues with more equally unpolished content.

ive accepted that its a high end rpg game that has some mildly challenging pve content and a semi interesting pvp mode.

Morgul667

Will ZO$ let this post die like others ?

Vapirko

Tonturri wrote: »

Games are supposed to become MORE polished as times goes on, not (somehow) less.

Zos needs to stop trying to bury the game's issues with more equally unpolished content.

Idk that its less polished. The game looked pretty clunky when it released. But it does definitely seem that they've been moving along without a clear vision or at least the ability to execute that vision. Whether that is a result of understaffing or staff that can't deal with the demands we will never know. Imo the cyclical nature of repeating past mistakes when it comes to PvP, makes it obvious that the combat team is either unable or for some reason incapable of spending the necessary time into developing and testing the changes for PvP, and are instead making the same mistakes because they lack the necessary time and resources to focus on more innovative solutions. Although what we should make of the fact that they pretty much ignored the suggestions from those invited to Summerset testing, and again from PTS suggestions, I do not know. We all need to accept that ESO PvP is here to stay as is unless we get some definitive answer from ZOS, so make you decisions about how much time and money you invest based on how it currently is and has been for a couple of years. By all means continue making suggestions if you have time, hopefully they take this Sloads business seriously and actually nerf it, but beyond that its really foolish to expect any really changes. So again, when it comes to subbing, buying crowns or any other form of investment into ESO, make sure that you accept that its current state is indicative of its future.

Asgari

If you ever see a ZOS response here its because some post was removed or edited.

ChugsMcWhiskey

Idk that its less polished.

The game definitely launched in an awful state, and the team did a great job with rectifying those problems. But we have had continuous instances of not only campaigns being removed, but also the population that each campaign can hold has been reduced as well. There would routinely be a few bars in Skull of Corruption, Chillrend, Skeleton Key, Kastav, etc. Now they are lucky to get to full pop in two campaigns during primetime. Way back in 1.6, the biggest complaint I remember was some small lag issues and people getting stuck on the environment while riding their horse.

Now they are having desync issues, lag issues, freezing issues (which are separate from lag and disconnects, as players remain on oil, continue to collect AP with their group etc), issues with CCs and roots, and a whole host of other problems that have only gotten worse as time has progressed and more content is released.

tl;dr they polished it up pretty well in the beginning but it has faded and tarnished over time.

LjAnimalchin

I don't even think that it's like zenimax just don't want to fix it. I don't think they can. They tried to fix it many times for years and it just got worse lol. I don't think they even know what causes it. Remember when they tried to blame cp for the lag, so they switched it off for the week and it still lagged like crazy? They have no idea what causes the lag. It's likely just engine limitations.

Enkil

Great post. Like many, I recently came back to ESO for the new chapters, but very little has changed in Cryodiil since 2015 other than that now players can just log off one character and go play another character in a different alliance on that same campaign, within the same window. I understand this is the result of One Tamriel which was certainly required, but why aren’t there active mechanisms in place to lock the player account from entering the same campaign on a character from another alliance and similar shenanigans?

casparian

Great questions and explanations of the issues.

The one thing I think you're missing, which oftentimes doesn't get brought up in conversations about these issues, is that ZOS pretty clearly has some understanding of the issues and they think they have done something about it: they introduced Battlegrounds. BGs were supposed to be the non-zergy, lag-free, new-content PVP that we have been asking for, and completely revamp this game's PVP performance and reputation. For various reasons that we're all familiar with, they didn't accomplish those goals at all, and I don't think they ever will.

It's not clear to me that ZOS has acknowledged that yet, and one of my top worries about the game right now is that they'll continue to go forward with BGs as their main PVP focus.

glavius

I'm not sure buffing high pvp rank players would be good for the game. It would promote AP farming instead of playing for fun, and make the entry barrier even higher.
And in most cases, time spend matters far more than player skill for such systems.

tinythinker

Nice post.

I used to write a chunk of those "thousands of ideas" you mentioned (not the highest quality but I had the volume angle cornered), but honestly there are good reasons -- and not cynical or dev-bashing ones -- to not expect huge shifts for AvA.

Good luck getting a meaningful reply (sincerely said). Have a great day.

Palidon

Wake up folks. ZOS has clearly shown they could care less about PvP and it's problems. Over the past four years there have been thousands of comments in over a hundred threads asking for changes and fixes. To date PvP ers are still putting up with the same old crap. Nothing has changed.

LegendaryMage

Enkil wrote: »

Great post. Like many, I recently came back to ESO for the new chapters, but very little has changed in Cryodiil since 2015 other than that now players can just log off one character and go play another character in a different alliance on that same campaign, within the same window. I understand this is the result of One Tamriel which was certainly required, but why aren’t there active mechanisms in place to lock the player account from entering the same campaign on a character from another alliance and similar shenanigans?

Because faction loyalty matters not to the devs. Do you remember how they used to preach about faction loyalty being a thing? I do...

SkysOutThizeOut

Share this thread everywhere you can get everyone to vote if you want a response. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422559/would-you-boycott-eso-subscription-crown-store-and-new-dlcs-for-pvp-to-be-adequately-addressed#latest

UppGRAYxDD

Is it time to get the pitchforks and torches?

Rohamad_Ali

Truly the lack of communication has lead us to here once again . ZoS always says they need to improve their communication with the players but never do . It's mind numbing wondering why . Players are justified in their frustration .

Delsskia

My guess is that it's very difficult to communicate the indefensible position that they hold.

FireCowCommando

.

Pnyx

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over then expect different results. The game is so broken now that nothing will fix it sort of major overhaul and re-write. The daily rewards are bribes to keep everyone playing one more day. Mark this one's words: Freebies and other incentives will only increase with each day getting closer to Ashes of Creation launch.

Koolio

loyalhabsfan wrote: »

Bought ESO on Console the day it came out, and I think I'm reaching my breaking point. I'll do my best to stay objective here as the current state of the game is immensely frustrating for me, and I haven't seen anything from Zos that helps relieve those frustrations.

First...

Cyrodiil
How is it possible that nothing has changed? We have the same map, with the same keeps, with the same tiny areas of foot traffic which promotes large group play (which doesn't help lag). I legitimately am asking if there is a reason this hasn't been addressed? We have this enormous, beautiful land of Cyrodiil; but there is zero incentive to spread the PvP out. It has been the same grind of castle flipping for three years now. There have been thousands of ideas from the community to implement new changes that would spread out the PvP and promote small scale. Everything from completely separate PvP servers with flags spread across Tamriel to take/defend major cities and towns, to new objective based targets within the dead zones of Cyrodiil. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any ideas have been shared from Zos in regards to open world PvP. Is there a reason? Imagine logging in with a few friends and deciding you want to go take Mournhold and defend it on your own as a team, with no access to wayshrines. True open world PvP. A zerg in this environment would not be effective and the fighting would be spread out. For those large groups who enjoy the massive keep fights? They will still be there...but why do the rest of us have to get sucked into that?

PvP Rank System
Ranking up your PvP rank in this game should mean something. Right now it's just a time-grind, having zero reflection of a characters ability to kill other players. Has there ever been any discussion to a fame system similar to Everquest? Something to promote fighting balanced fights (ex. being if you die while outnumbering your opponent, you lose fame...). There is a community of very skilled PvP'ers that are leaving the game simply because nothing is keeping them here. A rank system like this with some notoriety involved would encourage these players to stick around. After all, PvE players get it in their titles and achievements... Imagine if all of the top achievments and titles from PvE came from just grinding mindlessly for thousands of hours. You all know what I'm talking about, these double bow 40k health builds using Bone Shield that are "Grand Overlords" lol. Simply meaningless. I consider myself to be a good PvP player, but sometimes I get my butt kicked. Those elite players deserve to have something that reflects their skill.

Lag/Prioritization of Content
In my time played since launch, this game has never performed worse than it is right now. The frozen screens, the inability to break cc's, health desync's, load screen times, sprint bugs, it's unbelievable. I have a really hard time understanding how this is possible considering the amount of income this game has generated since launch. Clearly, you are a business and you need to provide content that generates income. However, I really think you're tripping over a dollar to save a dime here. Overlooking the PvP performance and content is costing you more than you think. There aren't really any other MMO style games on console with PvP, and the MMO's on PC are thin lately as well, there's a chance to dominate this sector of gaming and it's being completely overlooked. Maybe, just MAYBE, before another DLC is implemented with a new zone/skill line/grouping of sets, could a discussion occur about addressing the issues within the game first and improving on them? Everyone I know over the course of three years in this game no longer plays because they haven't received any content relative to their portion of the game that they enjoy. Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here. I know you have a QA team that works hard and generally does fix most basic issues. What I'm saying is, maybe management can pump the brakes on pushing NEW NEW NEW content, and look at balance/performance first. It can be done, but it's at the cost of pushing back the next DLC. Zos does not have bad developers. I can see the talent there, and the creativity/worksmanship. With that being said, the time needs to be provided from the top down in order to address these issues thoroughly. Quality over quantity.

Owning your mistakes
Honestly, the current state of the game disappoints me. I say that because I love this game and have supported it since day one. Sure, it has a solid population right now but is than excuse for the poor implementation of content? There are several forum posts here that are well thought out and most of them don't have a single response from Zos. Sure, some are questionable lol and I understand not every post warrants a response, but I'd really like to see an improvement in how you treat your players. They are your customers. Grown men and women taking time out of their day to give you free feedback to help support your product should not go unanswered or unappreciated. With the launch of summerset, dozens of issues have arised and the community is just trying to help isolate and fix these issues, please treat them with the respect they deserve. It upsets me when I see Zos close down threads that are literally asking for a response from you in regards to game issues, like...what? Based on the amount of money several of us have spent on this game, we deserve the courtesy of something like, "We understand the game is currently underperforming, and we are doing everything in our power to address these issues." What happens when you don't blast that message out to the community? People start to think you don't care... when it's one DLC after DLC with an increasing number of issues, the quality of the game decreases and your player base will have a rotating door with slightly more people leaving than entering.

I hope my message was portrayed respectfully, as I only express these concerns with hopes of change.

loyal

That’s literally the only videos I save now. I even made a post with links of like 15 bugs. No answer at all. Not even a “We are looking into these”

Doesn’t Feel good man.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/415209/multiple-bug-threads-with-no-answers-some-for-months-at-a-time-general-disappointment-masterpost#latest