Solution to rune cage problem.

usmguy1234

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The answer is obvious, a few subtle tweaks. Take 10-20% of the damage, and knock the range down to 17-20 meters. What will happen, on the other hand, is the people while B*#CH and moan until ZOS nerfs it right off peoples bars, and people will cry about another sorc skill.

We know too well how ZOS deals with these things.

They'll basically eradicate the very concept of what a rune and a cage are. Then, they'll also nerf crystal frags more and maybe make hardened ward last 3.1415926 seconds "because it's elegant this way".

Zos would do this to shields just so that stam could have their pie and eat it too.

rimmidimdim

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

I think what makes it balanced on NB and DK and not sorc is that sorcs burst damage is delayed meaning you are taking multiple abilities in 1GCD. So with sorcs a hard unlockable undodgeable cc pretty much guarantees you take damage from at minimum 3 abilities because rune cage itself does damage. Where NBs and DKs only guarantee one ability after fear and petrify. Just curse, cage, and frag is almost 40k worth of unavoidable tooltip damage because of how rune cage functions. Another thing that makes fear and petrify more balanced is the range. you have to put your self in melee range to CC with those abilities which opens you up to being counter bursted. The range on rune cage means you can use it while kiting keeping you safe from your opponent bursting you.

That's why I said you can reduce range and or dmg.

Making it dodgeable etc would make it a very bad ability.

I agree with this. Actually I think this is what most posts suggest. It seems too me the majority (and most reasonable) people are along these lines. I personally have no problem with the damage really, but I am a tanky/brawler build, but the range is what I find appalling. Cheers.

usmguy1234

RighteousBacon wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Only issue with cage I have is the stun duration. In BGs, ur out of stam. Get caged, ur sitting there for a ridiculous amount of time...u die

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru...

Nuni... (loud shreaking sound)

Finally lol

RighteousBacon

Waffennacht wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

I think what makes it balanced on NB and DK and not sorc is that sorcs burst damage is delayed meaning you are taking multiple abilities in 1GCD. So with sorcs a hard unlockable undodgeable cc pretty much guarantees you take damage from at minimum 3 abilities because rune cage itself does damage. Where NBs and DKs only guarantee one ability after fear and petrify. Just curse, cage, and frag is almost 40k worth of unavoidable tooltip damage because of how rune cage functions. Another thing that makes fear and petrify more balanced is the range. you have to put your self in melee range to CC with those abilities which opens you up to being counter bursted. The range on rune cage means you can use it while kiting keeping you safe from your opponent bursting you.

That's why I said you can reduce range and or dmg.

Making it dodgeable etc would make it a very bad ability.

My personal opinion on the skill is that, when synergized with meteor, it 9/10 times guarantees a kill. The only counter to meteor is block right? Sometimes a quick stun of the caster can work but with sorc’s ability to guarantee damage before being stunned, it’s less effective than blocking. I’m pretty sure streak goes through dodge but not block, so why does sorc need another Undodgeable? Streak has its own risk of use as well, it often means putting yourself in melee range.

I’ve been playing magsorc lately and for that reason I’d love rune cage to remain unblockable, but streak works fine against the rolly pollies of cyrodil.

I think it would be a good trade off to give frags it’s old stuff back in return for a nerf to rune cage. I doubt that will happen since as long as I’ve been playing, to my knowledge, ZOS has never reverted a nerf or buff back to what it was.

Since I doubt the previous paragraph will happen, my second solution would be to make rune cage unblockable, not undodgeable, as well has have a little bit shorter range.

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

NBs imo shouldn't. But they can't land everything in 1 gcd, neither can DK. IMO, the stand your ground, lower burst classes like DK and templar should have it.

Hard ccs are fine, like frags, that should stun again. And if sorc is to ever have it, 0ut it on streak, a short ranged directional CC.

Hammy01

Ranger209 wrote: »

Hammy01 wrote: »

The biggest issue with Rune cage and maybe all hard cc in this game is the buggyness of "break free", sometimes is works first time but most of the time you just end up with an empty stam bar from trying to spam break free. Zos should really start fixing their game and make sure core mechanics work flawlessly before they over nerf classes and skills.

I hate the current form of Rune cage but only because Break Free is buggy and Rune cage last for 5 sec... if it last 2 sec it might not be as bad. Plus Zos needs to add an immunity timer at the start of break free for at least 6 sec because other magica classes will run out of stamina long before the run cage spamming sorc runs out of magica.

In my mind break free should have nothing to do with immunity timer. The CC itself should make you immune. Get CC'd once an you are immune whether you break free or not. Break free should just do that, break you free. If the immunity was applied by the CC itself then on paper a person could not be chain CC'ed. Knockdown stuns seem to be the biggest offenders as there seems to be a delay before you can break free from them, animation of being knocked down maybe? So if when you get CC'ed you gain immunity from more CC's at that point in time you don't have to rely on breaking free for immunity. Instead breaking free merely gives you control of you character again. This to me seems like it would be a lot less buggy.

I can agree with this and I would be very happy if CC immunity started as soon as you were cc'd and lasted for 5 to 10 secs.

InBedWithMySelf

Emma_Overload wrote: »
» show previous quotes

DKs are melee, Sorcs need to be able to fight at range. If you want to make us melee players, give us a powerful melee spammable like Whip!

Hahahahaha. Trust me, you don't want anything like whip, it's a disaster.

InBedWithMySelf

As always my quoting skills are quite a spectacle

Yubarius

I'm ok with unblockable stunts such as Mass Hysteria and Fossilize which are both melee abilities that have their place in the game. Personally, I just cant stand that Rune Cage lasts 5 seconds which is one of if not the longest stun in the game, but it also does damage. Its just infuriating to play against.

Priyasekarssk

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"This stun is op, so keep it as it is and revert all nerfs to frags back because you know, sorcs lacks damage".

Despite I think everybody agrees that the stun on frags was WAY better than this op fossilize that is rune cage, there is no need whatsoever to buff the frag's damage. It hits as hard as a direct damage ulti and can be casted for a super low costs every 3-5 seconds from range.

A really nice idea I read some days ago was to make rune cage blockable but not dodgiable. That might be a tiny solution for non tanky players , while still having rc be one of the strongest CCs in the game.

To my knowledge its the fact that it's not dodgeable that makes it overtuned. The heavy armor, block casting/permanent blocking/virtually permablocking is a "problem" in PvP that is why Zos has nerfed blocking for several patches now.

Rune cage against medium armor dodge builds is instant death. No medium armor build stands a chance against me unless they have 26k+ health in this meta.

If anything I'd say keep the stun through block and make it dodgeable.

But I think the general consensus is it needs to change. Kind of like all the MagSorc mains said on the first iteration of PTS

So basically, wont break free nor how to make CC immunity up all the time. Just have shuffle up and kill mag sorcs as you wish. Never learn to counter run cage. Mag sorc shouldn't have any counter in return and should be a free kill. Very nice cheese.

That seems a little salty to a post that was I find well written and in good spirit. What do you mean "never learn to counter rune cage"? Plz explain rather than just just spew salt. "Mag sorcs shouldn't have any counter"? You still have streak. How many really good CC's you need? Look I don't think anyone is wanting rune cage to be removed, but alot of people, and alot, believe it's way op and have suggested lots of good ideas of how to change and why it's op. Cheers.

Also I don't understand your first sentence, I'm lost on your meaning.

First of all I dont have sorc main. My main is stam NB. I am not planning to make one or going to take it to PVP. This post is not in good spirit. Its noobs looking for more cheese. If sorc is so OP why dont world top PVP players run on mage sorc then ? Why they are running NBs & wardens with Orcs/Redguards ?

Let me tell the truth here. There are so many self proclamed pros no one are magic sorcs. They just run on half baked skills and copied from others. All of a sudden when sorc is buffed they cannot counter play especially in groups. So far they enjoyed free kills. Now a sorc in group is putting run cage and stopping in doing that. These self proclaimed pros cannot even break free or CC immunity up all the time and learn to adjust.

Still now no one explained why it cannot be countered ? No one will. Comet is mage guild skill commmon for everyone. There are so many CCs in the game. I can combine with comet with any CC in game with any class.

Magic sorc have no debuffs, whatever sorc does , can be healed. If you have sufficient resistant, Sorc damage is wet noodles. Magic sorc builds not even cross 2000 spell damage even with full light armor even world best builds. Magic sorc needs atleast 15k plus stamina. Its extremly impossible to get CC immunity up all the time. All sorcs run shackle + lich most of the time. No damage set & no debuffs. They cannot afford it either. Only class in ESO where you need sustain set to get through PVP.

mag Sorc is only do raw damage . Magic sorcs can only be overpowered against noobs who dont know how to play or make builds without any resistance and mud crabs. Explain on what scenario, run cage is overpowered and cannot be countered. Why cant people make a magic sorc instead if you think its overpowered ?

Noobs looking for cheese good luck. For all magic sorc users abandon the ship is my advice. Its not worth playing mag sorcs even in current state. 4 stam builds vs 4 mag sorcs. Stam builds will kill that 4 mag sorcs any day. Why would I even bother arguing when I myself not going to play ?
ZOs should fix counter and scoring in battlegrounds. Score should come from damage/debuffss/healing rather than the kills.

cpuScientist

I have a solution. Leave the other morph alone it's fine. And make rune cage itself instead a single Target dot with a good slow on it. Gives magSorc a heal from passives a slow to still have some control in a fight and a dot to have some kind of pressure off rotation. Opens up different than ways to play the class, and takes away a very overpowered stun. And go back to using reach or frag I'm cool with frag too.

Or make it blockable and dodgeable.

Or straight delete it because it is too strong. Has made me hate my Sorc.