Solution to rune cage problem.

Ender1310

Dude. Everyone has an issue. I respecced my Stam sorc to mag to see what was hitting me. Man. It's crazy what you can do with this thing. You think shalk/dawn/dizzying/executionor is bad? Try doing that from 40 yards away. You can have a meteor in the air with curse ready to go off and fury or shocking pulse/frag/skoria going off at the same time. Add stacking shields and streak on top of that. It's crazy.

Takes-No-Prisoner

I've seen people run this in Zergs, but... they put it on my StamDK to stop it from blocking and then never follow up. Seems to be a vast majority of players on my Server really don't understand how this ability works.

Hammy01

The biggest issue with Rune cage and maybe all hard cc in this game is the buggyness of "break free", sometimes is works first time but most of the time you just end up with an empty stam bar from trying to spam break free. Zos should really start fixing their game and make sure core mechanics work flawlessly before they over nerf classes and skills.

I hate the current form of Rune cage but only because Break Free is buggy and Rune cage last for 5 sec... if it last 2 sec it might not be as bad. Plus Zos needs to add an immunity timer at the start of break free for at least 6 sec because other magica classes will run out of stamina long before the run cage spamming sorc runs out of magica.

rfennell_ESO

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Just give frags it's 10% dmg back and it's stun. Thank you.

I have no idea why the change occured in the first place.

bardx86

Baconlad wrote: »

Only issue with cage I have is the stun duration. In BGs, ur out of stam. Get caged, ur sitting there for a ridiculous amount of time...u die

Thats a build issue then. If you run out of stamina you should die!

PhoenixGrey

20% damage back on frags with stun is a fair trade off. If not rune cage can remain the way it is.

bardx86

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

20% damage back on frags with stun is a fair trade off. If not rune cage can remain the way it is.

Its actually needs to be 40% as we can not longer use might of the guild.

PhoenixGrey

bardx86 wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

20% damage back on frags with stun is a fair trade off. If not rune cage can remain the way it is.

Its actually needs to be 40% as we can not longer use might of the guild.

I am all for that. That would mean I can pick up my swords again.

usmguy1234

Baconlad wrote: »

Only issue with cage I have is the stun duration. In BGs, ur out of stam. Get caged, ur sitting there for a ridiculous amount of time...u die

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru...

PhoenixGrey

Thogard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Rune cage needs a range debuff, like fossilize received. That's all. Cheers.

DKs are melee, Sorcs need to be able to fight at range. If you want to make us melee players, give us a powerful melee spammable like Whip!

You shouldn't be able to blow people up a mile away because of an OP stun. It's dumb, I actually feel it's more of a blight in battlegrounds than sloads. BG's feels like it's pretty much all ranged magic builds(the best groups) with the odd solo NB running around.

You shouldn’t be able to gap close from a mile away with a free snare on top as well. Yet you can. Range is an illusion if you don’t have LoS.

Range is extremely strong. Gap closets don’t invalidate range - they force the gap closer to completely compromise their position in order to do damage.

Stam is weak in BGs this patch because the dmg is so abundant from range dmg dealers that Stam players get blown up before their second attack lands after using a gap closer. Positioning is just too important now that you don’t have to worry about potatoes on teams.

Enough with the mention of an FPS game mode in a perfectly honorable conversation thread on a class skill.

But i can see why stam might have a drawback in BG's. Click monkeys operate from range and you have sload/ shield breaker / zaan / knight slayer/ valkyn / poisons / blah blah .. proc. GG gn !

Vahrokh

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The answer is obvious, a few subtle tweaks. Take 10-20% of the damage, and knock the range down to 17-20 meters. What will happen, on the other hand, is the people while B*#CH and moan until ZOS nerfs it right off peoples bars, and people will cry about another sorc skill.

We know too well how ZOS deals with these things.

They'll basically eradicate the very concept of what a rune and a cage are. Then, they'll also nerf crystal frags more and maybe make hardened ward last 3.1415926 seconds "because it's elegant this way".

rimmidimdim

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

The answer is obvious, a few subtle tweaks. Take 10-20% of the damage, and knock the range down to 17-20 meters. What will happen, on the other hand, is the people while B*#CH and moan until ZOS nerfs it right off peoples bars, and people will cry about another sorc skill.

We know too well how ZOS deals with these things.

They'll basically eradicate the very concept of what a rune and a cage are. Then, they'll also nerf crystal frags more and maybe make hardened ward last 3.1415926 seconds "because it's elegant this way".

Ya, I don't want to see that, I just want the range and damage of the rune cage reduced. Actually, screw it keep the damage and take the range down to eight meters. Is that same as fossilize? I think so. Something like that and then I believe sorcs will be brought down a tiny bit and balance will be pretty good. Or maybe I just hate rune cage so much that I'm blind by my bias. Cheers.

Ender1310

I know you guys (sorcs) think that your the martyrs of eso. Your not. Sorc class has overperformed straight from release. This statement was backed up with diminishing returns on mobility and reduced up time on shields plus the addition of a friggin champion point plus a whole set dedicated to the strongest defense in the game.
Say what you want about Zos but they have made a lot of money on this game and they know what they are doing. and your still playing it while complaining which I think is ridic.
So don't cry any rivers please. People have alts now you there is no mystery involving your class any more. Every night before I go to sleep I log on and Haunting meteor rune frag boom!!! Its great to see DK's use leap to get into melee range only to eat my stun meteor combo. As I shield and streak away.
This is not to say that I can't get outplayed. I am not that good of a player. Sorcs own range now hands down. They have a very good spot in open world pvp

Irylia

ak_pvp wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

Seems like an odd buff, I mean sorc frags stunning?
*every new player ever*
But let’s keep complaining about Rc.

Frag hits hard against the bowtard running full divines. It hits for a pitiful 3-6k even as a crit vs heavy and it’s not a spammable.
Surprise attack hits for a consistent 5-7

That is because stamblades can build ridiculous damage by just clutching on cloak for much defense, not because frags itself is weak.

Nyladreas wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Do people not remember when Cyrodiil was dominated by magicka sorcs? And again, without an unblockbale cc what exactly do you propose to do against mag DKs and/or permablock builds?

I'd just remove this perma block BS from PVP altogether.

You (and parent comment) get good and remember that permablock is dead, snares, expensive, dots, already unblockable abilities etc. If it should bring down block, it should bring down shields too right?

Lrn 2 keep some pressure, some small dots, lrn to use things like mines, pets or atro, and don't ask for OP bs.

You mean that sick damage bone pirate shackle tk build. Yea that’s super stacked damage.
Or how about when nb’s ran eternal hunt tk.
Damn these nbs stack so much damage.

Xsorus

I'm confused as to why they gave Magicka Sorc basically their old Crystal Frags damage back + longer stun on made it unblockable...Because that's really what Rune Cage is...Its basically Crystal Frags back to do what it was doing..just slightly more damage and now goes through block.

Priyasekarssk

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Just give frags it's 10% dmg back and it's stun. Thank you.

LegacyDM wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

rimmidimdim wrote: »

Rune cage needs a range debuff, like fossilize received. That's all. Cheers.

Disagree.

DK is a melee class, Sorc is a ranged one. It has 0 melee skills, it has skills to keep people out of melee range (Mines). It wouldn't work with the rest of the toolkit.

I'd rather they change it to a DoT and a debuff or root/snare. Or anything else remotely useful. But it has to be something that works with rest of the class.

I'd rather that, then nerfing it back to being a nothing skill that no one uses ever. Which is what would happen if they reduce the range to 8m.

Yea but um, Zos balances by making skills in line with similar skills. That was their justification for nerfing strife and other skills. strife got nerfed because devs wanted it to be consistent with force shock...logically, why does rune cage get to be different and more powerful? No, under their idiotic logic which stove pipes build diversity rune cage needs the same treatment as fossilize.

How about nerfing NBs damage on line with sorc and other classes ? 15K extra dps from nb is too much . Almost 30 percent extra damage from other classes. Still complain sorc. Complain everything. Complain everything. Only NBs can enter cyrodil ?

Runcage is designed as it should be.Sorc doesnt have snares or debuffs. L2P issue.

Ranger209

Hammy01 wrote: »

The biggest issue with Rune cage and maybe all hard cc in this game is the buggyness of "break free", sometimes is works first time but most of the time you just end up with an empty stam bar from trying to spam break free. Zos should really start fixing their game and make sure core mechanics work flawlessly before they over nerf classes and skills.

I hate the current form of Rune cage but only because Break Free is buggy and Rune cage last for 5 sec... if it last 2 sec it might not be as bad. Plus Zos needs to add an immunity timer at the start of break free for at least 6 sec because other magica classes will run out of stamina long before the run cage spamming sorc runs out of magica.

In my mind break free should have nothing to do with immunity timer. The CC itself should make you immune. Get CC'd once an you are immune whether you break free or not. Break free should just do that, break you free. If the immunity was applied by the CC itself then on paper a person could not be chain CC'ed. Knockdown stuns seem to be the biggest offenders as there seems to be a delay before you can break free from them, animation of being knocked down maybe? So if when you get CC'ed you gain immunity from more CC's at that point in time you don't have to rely on breaking free for immunity. Instead breaking free merely gives you control of you character again. This to me seems like it would be a lot less buggy.

Gilvoth

Micah_Bayer wrote: »

Just give frags it's 10% dmg back and it's stun. Thank you.

is that a threat, or blackmail?
not sure how this thread is allowed on the forums.

rimmidimdim

Ranger209 wrote: »

Hammy01 wrote: »

The biggest issue with Rune cage and maybe all hard cc in this game is the buggyness of "break free", sometimes is works first time but most of the time you just end up with an empty stam bar from trying to spam break free. Zos should really start fixing their game and make sure core mechanics work flawlessly before they over nerf classes and skills.

I hate the current form of Rune cage but only because Break Free is buggy and Rune cage last for 5 sec... if it last 2 sec it might not be as bad. Plus Zos needs to add an immunity timer at the start of break free for at least 6 sec because other magica classes will run out of stamina long before the run cage spamming sorc runs out of magica.

In my mind break free should have nothing to do with immunity timer. The CC itself should make you immune. Get CC'd once an you are immune whether you break free or not. Break free should just do that, break you free. If the immunity was applied by the CC itself then on paper a person could not be chain CC'ed. Knockdown stuns seem to be the biggest offenders as there seems to be a delay before you can break free from them, animation of being knocked down maybe? So if when you get CC'ed you gain immunity from more CC's at that point in time you don't have to rely on breaking free for immunity. Instead breaking free merely gives you control of you character again. This to me seems like it would be a lot less buggy.

This is not a bad idea, might stop the double CC's that people experience. That I experience here and there. Idk how hard it would be to write that in the game though, have no idea, cheers.

ItsNebula

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"This stun is op, so keep it as it is and revert all nerfs to frags back because you know, sorcs lacks damage".

Despite I think everybody agrees that the stun on frags was WAY better than this op fossilize that is rune cage, there is no need whatsoever to buff the frag's damage. It hits as hard as a direct damage ulti and can be casted for a super low costs every 3-5 seconds from range.

A really nice idea I read some days ago was to make rune cage blockable but not dodgiable. That might be a tiny solution for non tanky players , while still having rc be one of the strongest CCs in the game.

Thats the thing, even a good sorc cant really hit harder than a 8k cfrag on a decent player. Everyone that ive hit for 10k+ has been a garbage player. On a good player, i can crit for about 7-8k About 5k with no crits. I only run about 39% crit too, so i hardly ever crit as it is. Most MagSorcs (That are good) rely on the Curse>Endless>Rune Cage>Frags>Crushing shock combo to kill people, because frags itself can defiantly not just kill people. Rune cage does need a nerf. Cfrags does need a buff, pref its stun back. It was a proc skill, so its not like we can use it whenever we wanted. Timing that combo too, can be a pain, as you also have to keep an eye on your shields and health.

Waffennacht

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

Jsmalls

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"This stun is op, so keep it as it is and revert all nerfs to frags back because you know, sorcs lacks damage".

Despite I think everybody agrees that the stun on frags was WAY better than this op fossilize that is rune cage, there is no need whatsoever to buff the frag's damage. It hits as hard as a direct damage ulti and can be casted for a super low costs every 3-5 seconds from range.

A really nice idea I read some days ago was to make rune cage blockable but not dodgiable. That might be a tiny solution for non tanky players , while still having rc be one of the strongest CCs in the game.

To my knowledge its the fact that it's not dodgeable that makes it overtuned. The heavy armor, block casting/permanent blocking/virtually permablocking is a "problem" in PvP that is why Zos has nerfed blocking for several patches now.

Rune cage against medium armor dodge builds is instant death. No medium armor build stands a chance against me unless they have 26k+ health in this meta.

If anything I'd say keep the stun through block and make it dodgeable.

But I think the general consensus is it needs to change. Kind of like all the MagSorc mains said on the first iteration of PTS

Priyasekarssk

Jsmalls wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"This stun is op, so keep it as it is and revert all nerfs to frags back because you know, sorcs lacks damage".

Despite I think everybody agrees that the stun on frags was WAY better than this op fossilize that is rune cage, there is no need whatsoever to buff the frag's damage. It hits as hard as a direct damage ulti and can be casted for a super low costs every 3-5 seconds from range.

A really nice idea I read some days ago was to make rune cage blockable but not dodgiable. That might be a tiny solution for non tanky players , while still having rc be one of the strongest CCs in the game.

To my knowledge its the fact that it's not dodgeable that makes it overtuned. The heavy armor, block casting/permanent blocking/virtually permablocking is a "problem" in PvP that is why Zos has nerfed blocking for several patches now.

Rune cage against medium armor dodge builds is instant death. No medium armor build stands a chance against me unless they have 26k+ health in this meta.

If anything I'd say keep the stun through block and make it dodgeable.

But I think the general consensus is it needs to change. Kind of like all the MagSorc mains said on the first iteration of PTS

So basically, wont break free nor how to make CC immunity up all the time. Just have shuffle up and kill mag sorcs as you wish. Never learn to counter run cage. Mag sorc shouldn't have any counter in return and should be a free kill. Very nice cheese.

rimmidimdim

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

"This stun is op, so keep it as it is and revert all nerfs to frags back because you know, sorcs lacks damage".

Despite I think everybody agrees that the stun on frags was WAY better than this op fossilize that is rune cage, there is no need whatsoever to buff the frag's damage. It hits as hard as a direct damage ulti and can be casted for a super low costs every 3-5 seconds from range.

A really nice idea I read some days ago was to make rune cage blockable but not dodgiable. That might be a tiny solution for non tanky players , while still having rc be one of the strongest CCs in the game.

To my knowledge its the fact that it's not dodgeable that makes it overtuned. The heavy armor, block casting/permanent blocking/virtually permablocking is a "problem" in PvP that is why Zos has nerfed blocking for several patches now.

Rune cage against medium armor dodge builds is instant death. No medium armor build stands a chance against me unless they have 26k+ health in this meta.

If anything I'd say keep the stun through block and make it dodgeable.

But I think the general consensus is it needs to change. Kind of like all the MagSorc mains said on the first iteration of PTS

So basically, wont break free nor how to make CC immunity up all the time. Just have shuffle up and kill mag sorcs as you wish. Never learn to counter run cage. Mag sorc shouldn't have any counter in return and should be a free kill. Very nice cheese.

That seems a little salty to a post that was I find well written and in good spirit. What do you mean "never learn to counter rune cage"? Plz explain rather than just just spew salt. "Mag sorcs shouldn't have any counter"? You still have streak. How many really good CC's you need? Look I don't think anyone is wanting rune cage to be removed, but alot of people, and alot, believe it's way op and have suggested lots of good ideas of how to change and why it's op. Cheers.

Also I don't understand your first sentence, I'm lost on your meaning.

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

pieratsos

Xsorus wrote: »

I'm confused as to why they gave Magicka Sorc basically their old Crystal Frags damage back + longer stun on made it unblockable...Because that's really what Rune Cage is...Its basically Crystal Frags back to do what it was doing..just slightly more damage and now goes through block.

Because they never roll back their dumb changes. After their dumb frag nerfs they realised that the class needs dmg attached on cc and so they came up with the monstrosity called rune cage.

thankyourat

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

I think what makes it balanced on NB and DK and not sorc is that sorcs burst damage is delayed meaning you are taking multiple abilities in 1GCD. So with sorcs a hard unlockable undodgeable cc pretty much guarantees you take damage from at minimum 3 abilities because rune cage itself does damage. Where NBs and DKs only guarantee one ability after fear and petrify. Just curse, cage, and frag is almost 40k worth of unavoidable tooltip damage because of how rune cage functions. Another thing that makes fear and petrify more balanced is the range. you have to put your self in melee range to CC with those abilities which opens you up to being counter bursted. The range on rune cage means you can use it while kiting keeping you safe from your opponent bursting you.

RighteousBacon

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Only issue with cage I have is the stun duration. In BGs, ur out of stam. Get caged, ur sitting there for a ridiculous amount of time...u die

Omae Wa Mou Shindeiru...

Nuni... (loud shreaking sound)

Waffennacht

thankyourat wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

You can reduce the damage

You can reduce the range

I'm against any other changes

You can remove the broken OP Xv1 strength of an uncounterable CC on a class with massive potential burst.

So only NBs and DKs get unblockable/undodgeable CCs?

In fact NBs get 3 hard CCs?

No

I think what makes it balanced on NB and DK and not sorc is that sorcs burst damage is delayed meaning you are taking multiple abilities in 1GCD. So with sorcs a hard unlockable undodgeable cc pretty much guarantees you take damage from at minimum 3 abilities because rune cage itself does damage. Where NBs and DKs only guarantee one ability after fear and petrify. Just curse, cage, and frag is almost 40k worth of unavoidable tooltip damage because of how rune cage functions. Another thing that makes fear and petrify more balanced is the range. you have to put your self in melee range to CC with those abilities which opens you up to being counter bursted. The range on rune cage means you can use it while kiting keeping you safe from your opponent bursting you.

That's why I said you can reduce range and or dmg.

Making it dodgeable etc would make it a very bad ability.