How does Swift stack?

The_Protagonist

How does swift work with sneaking/crouching? Did anyone test it?

Thogard

glavius wrote: »

If what I assume is correct, 7 medium sprint with major expedition should hit the cap too. 1*1,3*1,55=2,015

I don’t trust this addon or its math. I did footraces to compare. We didn’t care about who won or lost, just about who was gaining and who was falling behind to determine which was faster. Everything we tested was in line with it being additive 2x purple swift in a 5 heavy 2 light build while sprinting and with major expedition was just an inch (<10%) faster than a 0 swift, 5 medium build that was also sprinting with major expedition.

According to your math the 5 medium armor would be the same speed as the 0 med w/ 2 swift because they’d both hit the hard cap... 1.55 * 1.3 = 2.015 (already hitting the cap even) the no medium armor with two swift 1.4*1.3*1.18=2.147

But they aren’t the same speed

glavius wrote: »

If what I assume is correct, 7 medium sprint with major expedition should hit the cap too. 1*1,3*1,55=2,015

It doesn’t. The addon is wrong.

raasdal wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

By my calculations one Swift jewelry should bring a 7 medium armor character (without Minor Expedition) to speed cap.


30%(Major Expedition)+10% Swift+61% Sprint(40%+21% from Athletics passive)=101%, 103% if you have Windrunning passive.

If swift calculates multiplicatively with Major/Minor expedition, then you'd be getting precisely 100% speed with the above buffs.


So as a general rule of thumb, I'd say anything more than one Swift jewelry is probably excessive for medium armor characters.

The value of swift comes in the regular run speed, not the sprint run speed.

This exactly. I just equipped my StamSorc with 3 x Swift. My "walking" speed is now 70% (30+10+10+10+10) - that is the same as a standard player using Major Expedition AND Sprinting (30+40). I am litterally ALL over the place, without even sprinting. It takes some getting used to - i am falling off all the ledges everywhere, because i am simply too fast for myself, but i am getting the hang of it slowly. But boy it is fun.

AND this leads me to the next point;

I honestly dont think Major / Minor and Swift are additive. I think they are multiplicative.

When i have my current setup, with Major + Minor + 3 x Swift, i should have either;

Additive = 70%
Multiplicative = 90%

And the thing is. My sprinting is WEAK. As in VERY WEAK. When i Sprint, the difference is almost unnoticeable. As in, my speed will not actually change very much. There is just no way, that my sprinting is adding another 30% to my speed. That would be noticeable. So just based off that, i have to check out more on this.

I will try to make a video and upload it, so you can all see and judge for yourself. Will also try to add Steed Mundus. If they are all multiplicative, this should put you at 99,84% increase - which is CAP. At that point it should be very clear, if Sprinting adds any speed. Because at this point it will be;

Additive = 75%
Multiplicative = 100% (or 99,84%)

If there is a good speedcalculator addon i could use to demonstrate / test as well, please let me know? Then i will try to put together a testing video tonight, to once and for all figure this out.

Going from 170 to 200 wouldn’t be very noticeable. It’s the equivalent of driving your car and going from 60mph to 70mph. You see it on the odometer but it’d be hard to eyeball the difference without looking.

To judge speed, You need to be next to someone who’s also moving to measure the actual increase. Find someone with the same build, and find out at what point you go the same speed. If a non-orc Stam sorc in 1 medium (3%) sprinting (40%) with major and minor expedition (30%) (10%) with two swift glyphs on purple jewelry 18%) (total additive is 101%) is the same speed as the same build with only one swift glyph on purple jewelry (total additive is 92%) then we’ll know they’re multiplicative. But we have to get them side by side and see.

Thogard

The_Protagonist wrote: »

How does swift work with sneaking/crouching? Did anyone test it?

Swift increases your movement speed in stealth. Not sure if it’s additive or multiplicative.

The_Protagonist

Thogard wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

How does swift work with sneaking/crouching? Did anyone test it?

Swift increases your movement speed in stealth. Not sure if it’s additive or multiplicative.

Thank you.

raasdal

Ok. So i tried to do some testing tonight. I did not capture it on video, simply because it seems quite boring and not needed. But if someone really wants it, let me know.

TL:DR --> @Thogard is correct, at least for all the Speed buffs to your NON-sprinting speed, in that they are all additive.

---

Currently, i have on my StamSorc;

Major Expedition (30%)
Minor Expedition (10%)
3 x Swift (3x10%)
Steed Munuds (5%)

Additive is 75%
Multiplicative is 95% or 99.8% depending on wether the 3 x Swift are each multiplicative, or collected into one pool of 30% before being multiplicative.

What i can immediately rule out by my testing, is the 99.8%. I can clearly confim, that i DO go a little bit faster, when i Sprint. So that one is out of the question from the start.

My hypothesis is then, to simply calculate how much my speed increases exactly, from sprinting, in this build. We know that it brings me to the cap of course. But does it increase my speed by relative 12,5% (from 175% to 200%) or by relative 2,5% (from 195% to 200%).

What i did, was to make a footrace with my self, on a specified distance. From a specific rock into a tree that would stop me. Not very scientific, i know... But while the result is not scientifically accurate, i believe it is enough. I did a lot of races back and forth, to get some numbers.

With sprint: 24 seconds
Without sprint 27 seconds
Speed Increase by sprint; 12,5%

I swear to god, i did not meddle with those numbers. The fact they hit it so precisely is clearly luck, since i might as well have gone with 23 seconds for sprinting. But the main point here is, that we are not trying to be nuclear-clock precise. Just trying to confirm wether it is additive or multiplicative. IF this had been multiplicative we should be seeing Sprinting giving me LESS than a second faster time. That is clearly not the case. I might miss up on 1 second. But not between less than 1 second, and 3 whole damn seconds.

So my conclusion is that Swift stacks additively with itself, and all other bonuses to your base speed (non-sprinting). How Sprinting works in conjunction with this, my experiment has no information on at all.

Qbiken

DDuke wrote: »

I tested with ravspeed yesterday - apparently I'm already hitting the speed cap while sprinting with 7 medium & Major Expedition. Without any Swift jewelry or Minor Expedition


ZOS should probably consider raising the speed cap by a little.

Can we remove speed-cap for werewolfs while we´re at it?

Want my fast doggo back

Chrlynsch

Qbiken wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I tested with ravspeed yesterday - apparently I'm already hitting the speed cap while sprinting with 7 medium & Major Expedition. Without any Swift jewelry or Minor Expedition


ZOS should probably consider raising the speed cap by a little.

Can we remove speed-cap for werewolfs while we´re at it?

Want my fast doggo back

Yeaaassss

glavius

raasdal wrote: »

Ok. So i tried to do some testing tonight. I did not capture it on video, simply because it seems quite boring and not needed. But if someone really wants it, let me know.

TL:DR --> @Thogard is correct, at least for all the Speed buffs to your NON-sprinting speed, in that they are all additive.

---

Currently, i have on my StamSorc;

Major Expedition (30%)
Minor Expedition (10%)
3 x Swift (3x10%)
Steed Munuds (5%)

Additive is 75%
Multiplicative is 95% or 99.8% depending on wether the 3 x Swift are each multiplicative, or collected into one pool of 30% before being multiplicative.

What i can immediately rule out by my testing, is the 99.8%. I can clearly confim, that i DO go a little bit faster, when i Sprint. So that one is out of the question from the start.

My hypothesis is then, to simply calculate how much my speed increases exactly, from sprinting, in this build. We know that it brings me to the cap of course. But does it increase my speed by relative 12,5% (from 175% to 200%) or by relative 2,5% (from 195% to 200%).

What i did, was to make a footrace with my self, on a specified distance. From a specific rock into a tree that would stop me. Not very scientific, i know... But while the result is not scientifically accurate, i believe it is enough. I did a lot of races back and forth, to get some numbers.

With sprint: 24 seconds
Without sprint 27 seconds
Speed Increase by sprint; 12,5%

I swear to god, i did not meddle with those numbers. The fact they hit it so precisely is clearly luck, since i might as well have gone with 23 seconds for sprinting. But the main point here is, that we are not trying to be nuclear-clock precise. Just trying to confirm wether it is additive or multiplicative. IF this had been multiplicative we should be seeing Sprinting giving me LESS than a second faster time. That is clearly not the case. I might miss up on 1 second. But not between less than 1 second, and 3 whole damn seconds.

So my conclusion is that Swift stacks additively with itself, and all other bonuses to your base speed (non-sprinting). How Sprinting works in conjunction with this, my experiment has no information on at all.

My testing indicated that sprint is multiplicative with the other bonuses. Not that the other bonuses (minor/major/swift/steed) were multiplicative with each other. You did not include sprint in your test (except to go very slightly faster to hit the speed cap), so I believe we are both right.

glavius

DDuke wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Some things are multiplicative. I tested 2 swift jewelry on my sorc, and realized I didn't run faster with it if I was sprinting.
Major+minir expedition+sprint (non orc) and 2 medium already takes you over the +100% cap.

Huh.. it shouldn't.

Major+Minor=37%(1-0,7*0,9)+Sprint(40%+6%[2 Medium])=85%

Cap is at 100%, so you should be able to get full value from one Swift jewelry atleast.

Edit: unless your character is orc... in which case passive=10% sprint speed->95% without jewelry.

Orc only gives a total sprint increase of 4%. 10% of 40%=4%. It's a crappy passive.

raasdal

glavius wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Ok. So i tried to do some testing tonight. I did not capture it on video, simply because it seems quite boring and not needed. But if someone really wants it, let me know.

TL:DR --> @Thogard is correct, at least for all the Speed buffs to your NON-sprinting speed, in that they are all additive.

---

Currently, i have on my StamSorc;

Major Expedition (30%)
Minor Expedition (10%)
3 x Swift (3x10%)
Steed Munuds (5%)

Additive is 75%
Multiplicative is 95% or 99.8% depending on wether the 3 x Swift are each multiplicative, or collected into one pool of 30% before being multiplicative.

What i can immediately rule out by my testing, is the 99.8%. I can clearly confim, that i DO go a little bit faster, when i Sprint. So that one is out of the question from the start.

My hypothesis is then, to simply calculate how much my speed increases exactly, from sprinting, in this build. We know that it brings me to the cap of course. But does it increase my speed by relative 12,5% (from 175% to 200%) or by relative 2,5% (from 195% to 200%).

What i did, was to make a footrace with my self, on a specified distance. From a specific rock into a tree that would stop me. Not very scientific, i know... But while the result is not scientifically accurate, i believe it is enough. I did a lot of races back and forth, to get some numbers.

With sprint: 24 seconds
Without sprint 27 seconds
Speed Increase by sprint; 12,5%

I swear to god, i did not meddle with those numbers. The fact they hit it so precisely is clearly luck, since i might as well have gone with 23 seconds for sprinting. But the main point here is, that we are not trying to be nuclear-clock precise. Just trying to confirm wether it is additive or multiplicative. IF this had been multiplicative we should be seeing Sprinting giving me LESS than a second faster time. That is clearly not the case. I might miss up on 1 second. But not between less than 1 second, and 3 whole damn seconds.

So my conclusion is that Swift stacks additively with itself, and all other bonuses to your base speed (non-sprinting). How Sprinting works in conjunction with this, my experiment has no information on at all.

My testing indicated that sprint is multiplicative with the other bonuses. Not that the other bonuses (minor/major/swift/steed) were multiplicative with each other. You did not include sprint in your test (except to go very slightly faster to hit the speed cap), so I believe we are both right.

Indeed, how Sprinting bonus interacts with everything is beyond my scope here.