Bleeds

casparian

Gprime31 wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Master axes are arguably over performing, bleeds in general are not. They require you to run dual wield which has pros and cons. They are strong, sure. And they need to be otherwise no one would play dual wield, especially now that two handers count as two set pieces. The entire weapon line would be obsolete in PvP if bleeds weren’t strong, as that dot pressure is the only reason to play dual wield. Build diversity is good for the game.

I mean, kinda. Pre masters buff, barely anyone ran DW. (recently, not spin2win days) Even though the other bleeds were about the same, however the nerfs to defense and sustain doesn't help, so in noCP even non master bleeds are a *little* OP.

Master DW nerf is absolutely in order. Its a near guaranteed death for DKs, heavy stamsorc/plar and non heavy mag wardens.

I agree, master dw bleed in no CP is a nightmare. I play heavy armor stam DK and there is 0 chance for me to win against a good master bleed + sload build. I just melt against them. On the contrary, I can at the very least put up a good 1v1 fight against almost all other builds.

Even normal bleeds feel very strong, but it could be argued, that they are a counter in a kind of rock-paper-scissors balance (strong against high resistance targets, weak against shield users).

thought bleeds and dots ignore resistances!?!

Normal DOTs do not ignore resistances. Bleeds are a unique kind of DOT that do ignore resistances (but are mitigated by other forms of mitigation, e.g. Hardy and Thick-Skinned CP).

Maulkin

Sigh, this again. Bleeds in isolation are absolutely fine.

You're specifically talking about bleeds buffed by Master Axes, backed up by Major Defile and all of this in a no-CP content. Is this combination OP? Absolutely yes.

The core of their their problem is balance of no-CP and CP. Normal bleeds (without Master Axes) in CP content for example, are not even that strong. There is still a very strong tank meta in CP, more than there is a bleed meta.

No-CP is a different beast altogether. Damage is too high and anything that ignores either Battle Spirit (oblivion damage) or resistances and is cheap DoT damage...is overperforming. Proc sets, are overperforming. Defile, when your healing is already gimped to [snip], is overperforming.

Add all the overperfoming staff together and you get one major cluster-fark. Which is what's happening to no-CP atm.

But the source of the problem, is that they balance sets and skills and poisons for CP content and all of this ends up f***ing over no-CP content. And it keeps getting worse and worse with each patch (see Sload).

I love no-CP but they're having serious issues with it atm. And bleeds are only a tiny part of it.

Skoomah

Woah! You died to bleeds and now you came to forums to complain for nerfs. Learn to play bro.

ak_pvp

Skoomah wrote: »

Woah! You died to bleeds and now you came to forums to complain for nerfs. Learn to play bro.

Weren't you complaining about "immortal builds" earlier. Lmao noob l2kill without clutches. As if block/heavy didn't have enough that ignored it.

Maulkin wrote: »

Sigh, this again. Bleeds in isolation are absolutely fine.

You're specifically talking about bleeds buffed by Master Axes, backed up by Major Defile and all of this in a no-CP content. Is this combination OP? Absolutely yes.

The core of their their problem is balance of no-CP and CP. Normal bleeds (without Master Axes) in CP content for example, are not even that strong. There is still a very strong tank meta in CP, more than there is a bleed meta.

No-CP is a different beast altogether. Damage is too high and anything that ignores either Battle Spirit (oblivion damage) or resistances and is cheap DoT damage...is overperforming. Proc sets, are overperforming. Defile, when your healing is already gimped to [snip], is overperforming.

Add all the overperfoming staff together and you get one major cluster-fark. Which is what's happening to no-CP atm.

But the source of the problem, is that they balance sets and skills and poisons for CP content and all of this ends up f***ing over no-CP content. And it keeps getting worse and worse with each patch (see Sload).

I love no-CP but they're having serious issues with it atm. And bleeds are only a tiny part of it.

Everything in isolation is fine. Even when not defiled its impossible to outheal a single person's master bleeds. Even in CP they are incredibly strong, even though its easier to outheal/mitigate, two of them will melt you.

Ender1310

They are very noticeable now. No matter how you block what you do to heal in this new cyrodil you aren't going to survive now. So I am going to try a dodge build and figure out how to slam some damage on top of that. I am hoping it will change and they will let us be tanky and survive again but whatever.

Gprime31

Master dw too good

kharl08

Nerf bleeds, to much blood loss in PVP...

WillhelmBlack

Does anyone realise that Master DW isn't something you can just craft or buy from a guild store? And all it does is increase the bleed by 1500 per tick and you lose an active 5pc set? Ravager offers 600 weapon damage which affects everything, even your heals, I'd say that's a stronger option and you can still run Rending or Blood Craze.

How is that too good or OP? If anything I'd say it should get it's weapon damage bonus back.

I'm not defending bleeds and Master's DW because I run them, I play against bleeds on all my characters. They're nothing compared to proc sets, Incaps, Rune Cage and Fury etc. Nothing at all!

ak_pvp

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Does anyone realise that Master DW isn't something you can just craft or buy from a guild store? And all it does is increase the bleed by 1500 per tick and you lose an active 5pc set? Ravager offers 600 weapon damage which affects everything, even your heals, I'd say that's a stronger option and you can still run Rending or Blood Craze.

How is that too good or OP? If anything I'd say it should get it's weapon damage bonus back.

I'm not defending bleeds and Master's DW because I run them, I play against bleeds on all my characters. They're nothing compared to proc sets, Incaps, Rune Cage and Fury etc. Nothing at all!

You can run 5 piece body and then a 3 from 5 back set with master bleeds. It's not at all a loss. And as for its strengths, in noCP it deals an incap damage every 2s with little way to mitigate it. Pretty broken.

WeylandLabs

Is it weird I love watching this thread about how many complaints i see. My P.M.S build has done very well cry some more ! Lmfao


Bleeeeeeeeeed !

WillhelmBlack

ak_pvp wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Does anyone realise that Master DW isn't something you can just craft or buy from a guild store? And all it does is increase the bleed by 1500 per tick and you lose an active 5pc set? Ravager offers 600 weapon damage which affects everything, even your heals, I'd say that's a stronger option and you can still run Rending or Blood Craze.

How is that too good or OP? If anything I'd say it should get it's weapon damage bonus back.

I'm not defending bleeds and Master's DW because I run them, I play against bleeds on all my characters. They're nothing compared to proc sets, Incaps, Rune Cage and Fury etc. Nothing at all!

You can run 5 piece body and then a 3 from 5 back set with master bleeds. It's not at all a loss. And as for its strengths, in noCP it deals an incap damage every 2s with little way to mitigate it. Pretty broken.

You can also run 5 front bar, 2 Agility, 5 back bar. Which is strong AF.

Brutusmax1mus

Some seem to think masters dw increases all bleeds... it is only twin slashes and morphs that gets the increase.

The other bleeds from passives have been that good/ the same for a very very long time.

Mohegan_Sneak

Sloads doesn’t just hurt magsorcs and nightblades, it hurts anyone, anything, anytime it wants. It’s hard to tell the difference in game play with sloads in the game if you are already unfamiliar with knowing how to midigate damage in the first place.

To you, it’s just another dot. To others its a cheesy dot that is easily applied that bypasses most of the defensive mechanisms the game has to offer.

Bleeds are kinda the same way, at least you have to build your character/build/WepDmg around that. Anyone of any build can throw on a set of sloads and boom.. 5.7k dot, 99% uptime, non midigatable damage. There is literally 0 argument to that set being balanced.

Imo bleeds could use a very slight tone down, but I wouldn’t go any further than that. Really hard to call out bleed specs with all the Zaan+sloads warriors running around these days.

ak_pvp

Mohegan_Sneak wrote: »

Sloads doesn’t just hurt magsorcs and nightblades, it hurts anyone, anything, anytime it wants. It’s hard to tell the difference in game play with sloads in the game if you are already unfamiliar with knowing how to midigate damage in the first place.

To you, it’s just another dot. To others its a cheesy dot that is easily applied that bypasses most of the defensive mechanisms the game has to offer.

Bleeds are kinda the same way, at least you have to build your character/build/WepDmg around that. Anyone of any build can throw on a set of sloads and boom.. 5.7k dot, 99% uptime, non midigatable damage. There is literally 0 argument to that set being balanced.

Imo bleeds could use a very slight tone down, but I wouldn’t go any further than that. Really hard to call out bleed specs with all the Zaan+sloads warriors running around these days.

Sloads requires the 5pc set that could then be used to buff bleeds. Bleeds do more damage than sloads, and the master buffed rending does a whole lot of damage.

If bleeds went through shields and through cloak, I guarantee you there would be fury on the forums.

Mohegan_Sneak

@ak_pvp not saying that they are underperforming, I do think they are strong, but over the top? Maybe a bit. just pointing out that at least you can somewhat midigate the damage through some types of defenses. And yes, with the master axes they do a lot a of damage.

My personal run-ins with bleed specs are usually close fights, unless they sprinkle the Zaan+sloads cheese on top of it and then I just get rolled up lmao.

Also remember Sloads requires a 5pc set you can get from a guild trader. Master axes at least take some work and RNG.

Brutusmax1mus

For the love of god, bleeds don't do good damage bc of masters axes, those axes only buff 1 bleed!! Bleeds from the dw a 2h skill line just inherently do good dmg, but require a chance to proc and are purgable.

ak_pvp

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

For the love of god, bleeds don't do good damage bc of masters axes, those axes only buff 1 bleed!! Bleeds from the dw a 2h skill line just inherently do good dmg, but require a chance to proc and are purgable.

No one is saying that. That is just the cherry on top, normal bleeds do a lot (a bit too much, but not nearly as bad) of damage, even without them, its just master bleeds take is OTT.

Also, only 1 class can purge it effectively, efficient purge is 5k mag. Not really good.

Brutusmax1mus

ak_pvp wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

For the love of god, bleeds don't do good damage bc of masters axes, those axes only buff 1 bleed!! Bleeds from the dw a 2h skill line just inherently do good dmg, but require a chance to proc and are purgable.

No one is saying that. That is just the cherry on top, normal bleeds do a lot (a bit too much, but not nearly as bad) of damage, even without them, its just master bleeds take is OTT.

Also, only 1 class can purge it effectively, efficient purge is 5k mag. Not really good.

Or the purify synergy, but it's not very practical either. But, 1 class hard counters it. It's also less effective towards shield/ like resistance builds.

When all 4 get going it's fun, idk, it's balanced in cp. Wrecks in no cp, but almost everything wrecks in no cp.

Cloak blocks incoming damage too. So 2 classes can essentially negate bleeds.

Bleeds are brutal to certain builds for sure, add defile and just wow. But defile does that for everything.