Dungeon Trolls

Voltematron

Hey everyone.

Was randomly doing dungeons last night through the activity finder. I'm about a 250 CP NB right now and am running 2h and bow with werewolf.

Now for some reason some other guy in the group immediately starts talking trash like
"Oh great a PVPer for a PVE dungeon"
and then I realize he's referring to me once I hit the werewolf transformation because he begins talking more trash even though I'm swatting enemies left and right.

It sortve floored me because I assumed this was a game made for fun not to bag on people for their builds or whatever. We cleared the dungeon really with no issue I just don't get why all the hate for. Anyone care to fill me in?

acampbell

Some people are like that. In dungeons, out of dungeons, PVP, it doesn’t matter really.

Don’t let it get to you and just keep doing your thing!

Banana

Elder scrolls 6 will solve this problem for us all.

Voltematron

Hopefully so, and thanks. But yeah the guy came off pretty high elfish to be an argonian to say the least

But I guess at 750 trash talk is a given. But jeez just super judgemental. Like who actually has time to type in the midst of dungeon crawling to trash a teammate my god

JamieAubrey

Just do what you do and ignore them, I do dungeons in full PvP setups if I'm waiting for a long Cyro queue

Aurielle

If it was a vet dungeon, the “troll” (Argonian... let me guess, the healer or the tank?) was probably irritated with you because you were pulling low DPS. I also get frustrated when people bring PVP builds into vet dungeons if they’re queued as damage dealers. If each damage dealer can’t pull at least 20k DPS self-buffed in a vet dungeon, it takes much longer for everyone in the group to complete the dungeon.

Odnoc

Aurielle wrote: »

If it was a vet dungeon, the “troll” (Argonian... let me guess, the healer or the tank?) was probably irritated with you because you were pulling low DPS. I also get frustrated when people bring PVP builds into vet dungeons if they’re queued as damage dealers. If each damage dealer can’t pull at least 20k DPS self-buffed in a vet dungeon, it takes much longer for everyone in the group to complete the dungeon.

It's a shame everyone can't match everyone's play style. Not many dps checks in even vet dungeons though, especially in the < 300CP ones, as long as we make it through, doesn't bother me one bit.

Left4Daud

Unfortunately some people would rather be hurtful than helpful. Not much you can do except prepare yourself for the occasional toxic PUG bully, or make a point to run with like-minded people.

ZOS could challenge the toxic PUG culture infecting their game but they would need to show that initiative first.

There’s only so much players can do when the reward system for PVE content is so heavily enforced by the mentality of “fast clear or I’m outta here.”

redshirt_49

Aurielle wrote: »

If it was a vet dungeon, the “troll” (Argonian... let me guess, the healer or the tank?) was probably irritated with you because you were pulling low DPS. I also get frustrated when people bring PVP builds into vet dungeons if they’re queued as damage dealers. If each damage dealer can’t pull at least 20k DPS self-buffed in a vet dungeon, it takes much longer for everyone in the group to complete the dungeon.

I get what you're saying but it is hard to reach those numbers below 300 CP and vet dungeon or trial sets in the first place.

AcadianPaladin

@Voltematron I'm sorry to hear you were ragged on doing a pug. I've only done half dozen or so of them but never had a problem with people trash talking or picking on someone. Though reading the forums, I understand it does happen with some frequency.

As far as a CP750 interacting with younger players, we're not all . . . ungracious. I remember being generally treated with kindness and patience by the max CP players when I was new to the game and that left an lasting impression on me - to do the same when my characters grew up. I only pug normals with my healer and tank - both CP750 and, if anything, the high CP motivates me to 'set the example' of trying to be gracious and competent.

My CP750 healer pugged normal Selene's Web last night with a L15 tank, L23 dps and another CP750 as the second dps. The young tank grabbed, turned and held bosses, the young dps stacked between the healer and the boss - just like they should. It was the high level dps (ranged magsorc) who insisted on staying behind my healer or way way off to the side. Ironically, the only death we had was the high level dps because I couldn't see him much of the time and, when things got heavy, had to focus on keeping the younger players buffed and healthy.

Strider__Roshin

The pve community is pretty toxic. Especially if you get into trials. Some people get angry if you bring in a character that has a high rank in PvP. I've heard "why are there PvP players in here?" Before when I've done trials. I can do 40k+ on a Nord 2H/Bow stamblade without optimal gear. Some people like to judge before the first boss fight even starts.

Casterial

Honestly I'll squish any little PVEr that tries to open their mouth like this. Most PVE players I've met are nice.

Voltematron

Quite spot on if I must say. Might I add that as I've been typing this all of you have been extremely insightful and supportive about the situation. Especially with regard to CP it is a noticeable difference once you get higher up and don't get me wrong I've come across plenty of older players who were very cool and just enjoying the game. Just that malcontent last night lol

This troll was indeed the argonian tank. Here's the thing tho, the trash talk started as soon as we entered (wait for it)....

Normal Darkshade 2, before any fighting really began honestly. I'm pretty sure he was peeved at the 2H set up going in though based on the immediate trashing.

I tend to rotate between DW and Bow as far as DPS goes, usually better results with the DW but I prefer the Bow to stay at range and 2H Rally with brawler to save me when things get too hairy up close. I do have my times for DW but I can't exactly land on a decent setup yet (for all wondering I race changed to Redguard, dumped nearly all into Stamina and am running unfathomable darkness with viper sting but am looking to switch up soon).

WuffyCerulei

That's just some a**hole being a jerk. Most people won't care. If you're killing stuff, you're fine. You'll find the occasional elitist. Other people don't like lower CP people.

redshirt_49

The divide between PvPers and PvEers is quite interesting. The latter especially can be very baffled when told you like to do both. Yeah I like vet dungeons and trials and vMSA. I also like storming keeps and battlegrounds. Why is that so scandalous to some "competitive" trial people?

Voltematron

redshirt_49 wrote: »

The divide between PvPers and PvEers is quite interesting. The latter especially can be very baffled when told you like to do both. Yeah I like vet dungeons and trials and vMSA. I also like storming keeps and battlegrounds. Why is that so scandalous to some "competitive" trial people?

The more I play the more I begin to notice. I mean yeah there has to be a different play style for certain situations but this is the exact reason I like running bow with 2h, I sometimes even switch up to sword and board just to screw around. I like the game, I guess that's the point for us all really.

Definitely some toxic, elitist folks on here though. I try to help everyone I run into whether they need certain gear from a dungeon I'll just give or if they just need help with a wb or dolmens I'll assist where I can, even the occasional ww bite. No one knows everything and the community of ESO is here for that, even now with my dungeon gripe.

You're all very awesome

AlienatedGoat

Daus wrote: »

The pve community is pretty toxic. Especially if you get into trials. Some people get angry if you bring in a character that has a high rank in PvP. I've heard "why are there PvP players in here?" Before when I've done trials. I can do 40k+ on a Nord 2H/Bow stamblade without optimal gear. Some people like to judge before the first boss fight even starts.

The problem is that many PvPers come into PvE with their PvP gear and think that they're hot stuff, so they queue into Vets.

Then you're one boss deep and you try to explain to them that they're doing 10k DPS and they cop an attitude.

So no. If I see obvious PvPers in PvP gear in Vets and they are doing jack, I'll call them out.

I've had enough of weaksauce PvPers with attitude who think they're entitled to a dungeon carry just because they PvP.

Aurielle

Voltematron wrote: »

Quite spot on if I must say. Might I add that as I've been typing this all of you have been extremely insightful and supportive about the situation. Especially with regard to CP it is a noticeable difference once you get higher up and don't get me wrong I've come across plenty of older players who were very cool and just enjoying the game. Just that malcontent last night lol

This troll was indeed the argonian tank. Here's the thing tho, the trash talk started as soon as we entered (wait for it)....

Normal Darkshade 2, before any fighting really began honestly. I'm pretty sure he was peeved at the 2H set up going in though based on the immediate trashing.

I tend to rotate between DW and Bow as far as DPS goes, usually better results with the DW but I prefer the Bow to stay at range and 2H Rally with brawler to save me when things get too hairy up close. I do have my times for DW but I can't exactly land on a decent setup yet (for all wondering I race changed to Redguard, dumped nearly all into Stamina and am running unfathomable darkness with viper sting but am looking to switch up soon).

Darkshade II (or any normal story-II dungeon, for that matter) can be painful if you’re running a full tank build and are paired up with damage dealers who aren’t doing all that much DPS. I pugged a normal Darkshade II recently on my vet dungeon tank for the random normal daily rewards, and wanted to stab my eyes out repeatedly. My tank only does about 10k DPS, and was out-DPSing both damage dealers and the healer combined. They also COULD NOT stay alive during the final fight. I went through about 20 soul gems before I gave up and soloed it. Slowly.

So... while the tank you encountered was probably unnecessarily rude, I also understand why he/she might have been frustrated. You encounter a LOT of poor DPS if you take the chance of tanking a normal pug on the full tank build you normally use for vet dungeons and trials. It’s one of the reasons why a lot of people “fake tank” normal dungeons with their damage dealers. I hate to say it, but your Viper/Unfathomable Darkness setup (both of which are proc sets that are better suited to PVP) was probably barely even tickling the bosses. There are much better crafted and dropped options available that would be less likely to draw the ire of cranky tanks who just want to get the dungeon done in a reasonable amount of time.

Malacthulhu

Voltematron wrote: »

Hey everyone.

Was randomly doing dungeons last night through the activity finder. I'm about a 250 CP NB right now and am running 2h and bow with werewolf.

Now for some reason some other guy in the group immediately starts talking trash like
"Oh great a PVPer for a PVE dungeon"
and then I realize he's referring to me once I hit the werewolf transformation because he begins talking more trash even though I'm swatting enemies left and right.

It sortve floored me because I assumed this was a game made for fun not to bag on people for their builds or whatever. We cleared the dungeon really with no issue I just don't get why all the hate for. Anyone care to fill me in?

Usually, the less someone knows or the more ignorant they are, the more trash they speak. I prefer the trashy ignorant ones more to the ostentatious ignorant. It can be subjective depending on the contrast of personalities or attitudes. Ego, obviously plays a role.

WhiteNoiseMaker

Voltematron wrote: »

I tend to rotate between DW and Bow as far as DPS goes, usually better results with the DW but I prefer the Bow to stay at range and 2H Rally with brawler to save me when things get too hairy up close. I do have my times for DW but I can't exactly land on a decent setup yet (for all wondering I race changed to Redguard, dumped nearly all into Stamina and am running unfathomable darkness with viper sting but am looking to switch up soon).

While I totally empathize with you, here's the thing... I would not trash talk you just upon seeing you in a dungeon, but I'd be extremely circumspect about you (until I saw your performance), for one main reason that you already illustrated above.

Your set-up, which is indicative of a PVP setup, is not a team-player's setup. Dungeon running (and trials) are about team tactics and having trust in your fellow party members to do their job correctly. In your own words, what comes across above is a survival setup, meaning it's about YOU staying alive first, not doing your job and having trust that the healer will heal you, the tank will draw aggro and position for the group, and overall... while it seems counter-intuitive, a DPS in group content relies on the others for survival and uses primarily dodging and avoidance to make up for the tight spots.

What you did,... It's like showing up to a potluck dinner with napkins, forks, and foam cups, but expecting everyone else to bring the food and drinks.

raj72616a

it's understandable for a real tank to get pissed at a fake dps.

with bad enough fake dps you can't even get to the final boss in DC2, you wipe getting molested by a thousand jellyfish tentacles.

VilniusNastavnik

Had 2 DPS that did not know how to interrupt in a random normal earlier.. lowest was 47, highest was CP110. Healer was 2 weeks into the game, already CP200. Scalecaller. Enough said.

Voltematron

Aurielle wrote: »

Voltematron wrote: »

Quite spot on if I must say. Might I add that as I've been typing this all of you have been extremely insightful and supportive about the situation. Especially with regard to CP it is a noticeable difference once you get higher up and don't get me wrong I've come across plenty of older players who were very cool and just enjoying the game. Just that malcontent last night lol

This troll was indeed the argonian tank. Here's the thing tho, the trash talk started as soon as we entered (wait for it)....

Normal Darkshade 2, before any fighting really began honestly. I'm pretty sure he was peeved at the 2H set up going in though based on the immediate trashing.

I tend to rotate between DW and Bow as far as DPS goes, usually better results with the DW but I prefer the Bow to stay at range and 2H Rally with brawler to save me when things get too hairy up close. I do have my times for DW but I can't exactly land on a decent setup yet (for all wondering I race changed to Redguard, dumped nearly all into Stamina and am running unfathomable darkness with viper sting but am looking to switch up soon).

Darkshade II (or any normal story-II dungeon, for that matter) can be painful if you’re running a full tank build and are paired up with damage dealers who aren’t doing all that much DPS. I pugged a normal Darkshade II recently on my vet dungeon tank for the random normal daily rewards, and wanted to stab my eyes out repeatedly. My tank only does about 10k DPS, and was out-DPSing both damage dealers and the healer combined. They also COULD NOT stay alive during the final fight. I went through about 20 soul gems before I gave up and soloed it. Slowly.

So... while the tank you encountered was probably unnecessarily rude, I also understand why he/she might have been frustrated. You encounter a LOT of poor DPS if you take the chance of tanking a normal pug on the full tank build you normally use for vet dungeons and trials. It’s one of the reasons why a lot of people “fake tank” normal dungeons with their damage dealers. I hate to say it, but your Viper/Unfathomable Darkness setup (both of which are proc sets that are better suited to PVP) was probably barely even tickling the bosses. There are much better crafted and dropped options available that would be less likely to draw the ire of cranky tanks who just want to get the dungeon done in a reasonable amount of time.

I've actually gotta agree with you there as well, as I'm learning more about the different elements in the game. Any suggestions on a decent set combo would be much appreciated too. Again you've all been really helpful

Fiktius

This reminds me of a case when one friend of mine asked me to replace another DD in veteran dungeon.
My friend was aware that I'm playing with my PvP build, but that wasn't a problem for the team. Team needed DD and I was there to help.
We did well at the dungeon, none of us died and we received no death achievement.
Then at the end I heard from the team that previous DD which I replaced tried to vote kick our healer out, just because this person was CP 160 "only."

And this was the first point when I actually paid attention on people's CP around me.
The team was fully functional, I didn't have a need to check out people's CP before this point, when entire dungeon was already completed.

Several players seem to have their ideal mindset and view of "perfect PvE team" and if something differs from this view, some of these players are very eager to mention about it right away.
But at this point they forget that if they are queuing with strangers, they can't select players with who they go into the dungeon run. If they want to have a team which suits their ideal team, they may as well queue with guildies/friends instead and form pre-made team.

Heimpai

Voltematron wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Voltematron wrote: »

Quite spot on if I must say. Might I add that as I've been typing this all of you have been extremely insightful and supportive about the situation. Especially with regard to CP it is a noticeable difference once you get higher up and don't get me wrong I've come across plenty of older players who were very cool and just enjoying the game. Just that malcontent last night lol

This troll was indeed the argonian tank. Here's the thing tho, the trash talk started as soon as we entered (wait for it)....

Normal Darkshade 2, before any fighting really began honestly. I'm pretty sure he was peeved at the 2H set up going in though based on the immediate trashing.

I tend to rotate between DW and Bow as far as DPS goes, usually better results with the DW but I prefer the Bow to stay at range and 2H Rally with brawler to save me when things get too hairy up close. I do have my times for DW but I can't exactly land on a decent setup yet (for all wondering I race changed to Redguard, dumped nearly all into Stamina and am running unfathomable darkness with viper sting but am looking to switch up soon).

Darkshade II (or any normal story-II dungeon, for that matter) can be painful if you’re running a full tank build and are paired up with damage dealers who aren’t doing all that much DPS. I pugged a normal Darkshade II recently on my vet dungeon tank for the random normal daily rewards, and wanted to stab my eyes out repeatedly. My tank only does about 10k DPS, and was out-DPSing both damage dealers and the healer combined. They also COULD NOT stay alive during the final fight. I went through about 20 soul gems before I gave up and soloed it. Slowly.

So... while the tank you encountered was probably unnecessarily rude, I also understand why he/she might have been frustrated. You encounter a LOT of poor DPS if you take the chance of tanking a normal pug on the full tank build you normally use for vet dungeons and trials. It’s one of the reasons why a lot of people “fake tank” normal dungeons with their damage dealers. I hate to say it, but your Viper/Unfathomable Darkness setup (both of which are proc sets that are better suited to PVP) was probably barely even tickling the bosses. There are much better crafted and dropped options available that would be less likely to draw the ire of cranky tanks who just want to get the dungeon done in a reasonable amount of time.

I've actually gotta agree with you there as well, as I'm learning more about the different elements in the game. Any suggestions on a decent set combo would be much appreciated too. Again you've all been really helpful

I mainly pvp these days because people would complain about no dps, sorry I’m not max cp and only doing 16-18k dps

Gear wise i run spriggans/hundings and 2 agility

Thanks to the above reason i gave up on trying for better gear from dungeons and went to pvp

Voltematron

Yeah from all the comments I'd imagine I've hit upon a bit of a touchy subject. That being said, I'm about to take a real crack at getting some better gear set ups for end game stuff in mind. The potluck reference brought it all the way home for me lol

Gonna look up some guides, but I appreciate any tips as far as Redgurd NB goes. More or less based on what everyone has been talking under this discussion my main thing needs to be damage dealing...not midwaying my time through a dungeon and pissing off the occasional jerk with a build that isn't ideal for the setting.

My main thing was to understand his frustration, even if it was a bit over the top/unhelpful.

Heimpai

Voltematron wrote: »

Yeah from all the comments I'd imagine I've hit upon a bit of a touchy subject. That being said, I'm about to take a real crack at getting some better gear set ups for end game stuff in mind. The potluck reference brought it all the way home for me lol

Gonna look up some guides, but I appreciate any tips as far as Redgurd NB goes. More or less based on what everyone has been talking under this discussion my main thing needs to be damage dealing...not midwaying my time through a dungeon and pissing off the occasional jerk with a build that isn't ideal for the setting.

My main thing was to understand his frustration, even if it was a bit over the top/unhelpful.

https://alcasthq.com/eso-stamina-nightblade-build-for-pve/#content8

I’ve been in a random with a dude doing 45k+ dps soo i understand, people expect everything to be instantly vaporized because they get used to that kind of dps

Tomorrow’s my weekend so I’ll try my first dungeon in 3 weeks, if it goes good I’ll try to farm stormfist

WhiteNoiseMaker

Voltematron wrote: »

Yeah from all the comments I'd imagine I've hit upon a bit of a touchy subject. That being said, I'm about to take a real crack at getting some better gear set ups for end game stuff in mind. The potluck reference brought it all the way home for me lol

Gonna look up some guides, but I appreciate any tips as far as Redgurd NB goes. More or less based on what everyone has been talking under this discussion my main thing needs to be damage dealing...not midwaying my time through a dungeon and pissing off the occasional jerk with a build that isn't ideal for the setting.

I can't say I know much about NB's... but I'd say there's no need to abandon your PVP build ideas either, as you grow you can have extra gearsets and make skill bar setups (stored if you use add-ons), and swap between content. If you're playing stamina the basic builds tend to follow the same theories and ideas, DW/Bow, with mostly the same rotation. If going magicka, NB's have some awesome guides for magicka. Check out Alcast, Gilliam the Rogue, or Emphatic Static on youtube, they're great resources for learning build theory.

I wish you luck and hope you keep up with the dungeoneering! :-)

Voltematron

Am definitely greatful for all the support and suggestions. Checking out an alcast right now and currently tweaking my CPs and gear set up. Still plan on keeping my 2H setup handy for solo stuff but when it's dungeon time I'll have DPS in mind for the sake of my team.

Not for nothing, but I hate being the guy who dies in a dungeon although if I can at least take out a sizeable chunk of the opposition first I won't feel so bad for it

Great advice, great players all around. If I happen to run into any of you online give me a shout (for you Rick and Morty fans just remember Voltematron from Morty's Mind Blowers haha)

Thanks again

DoctorESO

Voltematron wrote: »

Hey everyone.

Was randomly doing dungeons last night through the activity finder. I'm about a 250 CP NB right now and am running 2h and bow with werewolf.

Now for some reason some other guy in the group immediately starts talking trash like
"Oh great a PVPer for a PVE dungeon"
and then I realize he's referring to me once I hit the werewolf transformation because he begins talking more trash even though I'm swatting enemies left and right.

It sortve floored me because I assumed this was a game made for fun not to bag on people for their builds or whatever. We cleared the dungeon really with no issue I just don't get why all the hate for. Anyone care to fill me in?

For some people, all they have going for them is to rag on others in an online game.

Cadbury

redshirt_49 wrote: »

The divide between PvPers and PvEers is quite interesting. The latter especially can be very baffled when told you like to do both. Yeah I like vet dungeons and trials and vMSA. I also like storming keeps and battlegrounds. Why is that so scandalous to some "competitive" trial people?

It's just human nature at work. By design, we already have the means available to encourage conflict between the players (PvE vs PvP, Console vs. PC, Faction vs.Faction, etc.)

It's this "us vs. them" mentality that only serves to obfuscate more pertinent issues.