How much dps does blood thirsty give roughly?

Joker99

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

arishok33 wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

arishok33 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Do you think that 3pc Bloodthirsty on a mDK would be worth it? They've got no execute and their damage is mostly DOT.

I think that is actually the best class to run Bloodthirsty on. They don’t get any multipliers on Max Magicka or Spell Damage, so it is the worst class for Arcane or Infused. The lack of an execute means that DK’s will typically spend more time in the execute phase than other classes, so they benefit most from Bloodhtirsty. Additionally, the current Meta of Zaan + Elfbane means a significant portion of MagDK damage comes from a damage proc (which is not affected by Max Magicka, Spell Damage or Crit, but does benefit from % damage increased bonuses).

Only that Elf Bane is not meta. xD Try BSW/Siroria or run one of these with the perfected AS Staff. Both yield much higher damage.

I think it's safe to call a build "meta" when it's Alcast's main build guide. https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-dragonknight-build-pve/

Ever thought that maybe Alcasts builds are not always the best setup there is? He has more than 20 chars. Of every class. And while he is indeed a very good player, he can't play everything perfectly. How should he?
And his MagDK build is more than subotpimal, sry not sry. I main a MagDK, tested on the PTS for hours and trust me Elf Bane is NOT a good set.
But anyway if you want to spend all your AP or Gold on the Elf Bane Staff go ahead.

I’m not familiar with most Alcast builds so I can’t say how well they all perform, but I think you are underestimating Elf Bane. Maybe you didn’t see the full results of the set if you were running it with a staff on one bar? This set adds at least 2k DPS to the Zaan proc alone. Just that one aspect of Elf Bane is roughly the same as the 300-350 average spell damage from Burning Spellweave. Additionally it adds 2s to all fire DoTs, basically allowing 2 extra whips or a free heavy attack every rotation.

I’ll agree with Siroria as the best set to use with Zaan and Elf Bane, as nothing can compete with 600 spell damage and minor slayer.

I really don’t know how you got those numbers, but apparently you did, the thing with Elf Bane is that while it adds 2 secs to Zaan(not by 2k) and other dots, you do trade 2% max magicka, still have to recast Engulfing after 10 secs because it doesn’t prolong the debuff, and Flames of Oblivion doesn’t get prolonged, so while in theory you should have 2 free whips, you actually have 1.x free whips and around 1k dps more to Zaan, put everything together and you have a measly 2-2.5k dps increase from Elfbane, which not to mention, is a very crappy set for mobile fights. Had you ran a set like Moondancer or Julianos, you would get way more out of it, and it would scale better in trials as well.

WrathOfInnos

I got those numbers from some thorough testing back when this combination was discovered back in February, before it was really viable due to Bloodthirsty jewelry. If building around a fire damage DoT rotation, with typical raid buffs it is not difficult to reach an average "damage done" (additive bonus) increase of 68% on Zaan. You also get a 10% multiplier from Engulfing Flames and now an additional 6% average increase over a fight duration from Bloodthirsty. This means that on a fully armor debuffed enemy, Zaan procs for a total of 70514 without Elf Bane, and 110063 with Elf Bane. In theory, this bonus damage could occur every 18s, resulting in an increase of Zaan from 4230 to 6603 DPS, a difference of 2373 DPS. In practice, the proc will not occur exactly every 18s, and seems to average every 20s in a live parse. Therefore the actual DPS increase is closer to 2136 in trials. You will not see these numbers on a dummy parse, I am talking full raid buffs (excluding unpredictable things like Major Berserk). With variations in buff uptimes, 2k is a reasonable expectation.

Obviously I'm talking about static fights, like most of the Craglorn trials. I agree that the same DPS values from Zaan cannot be applied to mobile fights like vAS and vCR.

If anyone would like, I can go into more detail on which buffs and debuffs affect the Zaan proc and make Elf Bane viable. I doubt many have looked into this as much as I did when it was discovered.

arishok33

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

arishok33 wrote: »

erlewine wrote: »

arishok33 wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

Do you think that 3pc Bloodthirsty on a mDK would be worth it? They've got no execute and their damage is mostly DOT.

I think that is actually the best class to run Bloodthirsty on. They don’t get any multipliers on Max Magicka or Spell Damage, so it is the worst class for Arcane or Infused. The lack of an execute means that DK’s will typically spend more time in the execute phase than other classes, so they benefit most from Bloodhtirsty. Additionally, the current Meta of Zaan + Elfbane means a significant portion of MagDK damage comes from a damage proc (which is not affected by Max Magicka, Spell Damage or Crit, but does benefit from % damage increased bonuses).

Only that Elf Bane is not meta. xD Try BSW/Siroria or run one of these with the perfected AS Staff. Both yield much higher damage.

I think it's safe to call a build "meta" when it's Alcast's main build guide. https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-dragonknight-build-pve/

Ever thought that maybe Alcasts builds are not always the best setup there is? He has more than 20 chars. Of every class. And while he is indeed a very good player, he can't play everything perfectly. How should he?
And his MagDK build is more than subotpimal, sry not sry. I main a MagDK, tested on the PTS for hours and trust me Elf Bane is NOT a good set.
But anyway if you want to spend all your AP or Gold on the Elf Bane Staff go ahead.

I’m not familiar with most Alcast builds so I can’t say how well they all perform, but I think you are underestimating Elf Bane. Maybe you didn’t see the full results of the set if you were running it with a staff on one bar? This set adds at least 2k DPS to the Zaan proc alone. Just that one aspect of Elf Bane is roughly the same as the 300-350 average spell damage from Burning Spellweave. Additionally it adds 2s to all fire DoTs, basically allowing 2 extra whips or a free heavy attack every rotation.

I’ll agree with Siroria as the best set to use with Zaan and Elf Bane, as nothing can compete with 600 spell damage and minor slayer.

I tested it not over weapons as well. But then it f*** up your Siroria Boons.
I tested a LOT believe me. xD
With Elfbane I couldn't even break the 45K.
Siroria + Willpower+ Zaan+AS Staff is the strongest. 48K+ Even after calculating minor vulnerability uptime.
I'm not at home right now, but I'll try to link some parses afternoon.

arishok33

I actually don't have any parses with Elf Bane anymore and I don't plan on golding it out on live so sry, but feel free to post one where you achieve similar numbers with Elf Bane in any kind of combination.^^
As I said, best gear combination I tested by far:
Siroria, Zaan, AS Staff, MSA Staff, Willpower. When I tried it with Elf Bane I was consistently 3-4k lower, while BSW was only ~2k lower. So even BSW outperformed it.

WrathOfInnos

That is interesting and a little disappointing that Force Pulse is outperforming whip with the Asylum staff. That is the same gear setup I use on my sorc.

Unfortunately I didn’t keep any of my old Elf Bane test parses, just have the spreadsheet where I compared theoretical vs actual. As soon as I get around to retraiting my jewelry on live server I’ll get some screenshots up. Might be a few weeks though, as magDK is my 4th alt.

As for Siroria, it is definitely viable to run on front bar only and keep 20 stacks, it just requires a rotation with no more than 3 back bar skills in a row.

Edit: @arishok33 Wait do you mean 45k vs 48k on a target skeleton? That’s probably just the Minor Vulnerability from Concussion making the Asylum staff appear better. If you had group support providing this debuff then the 45k Elf Bane parse becomes a 48.6k, beating the 48k Asylum staff parse. The only other benefits from the Asylum staff are burning uptime (plenty already on magDK), chilled (at most a few hundred DPS, and applying a redundant minor main debuff), and range (which would not work with burning embers). I’m doubting that an Asylum magDK outperforms one with Whip and two 5-piece sets in trials.

RajinPVP

Hate the trait coz everytime i think about like 75% of max health it was useless which compare to infused that basically gives me 100 wd or sd more that also works towards execute.

SmellyUnlimited

erlewine wrote: »

Joker99 wrote: »

3 Bloodthirsty will outperform any other combination no matter the fight.

What about fights where you die at 25%?

If you die at 25%, then no enchantment can help you, unless they have a resurrection enchantments I’m not aware of....

arishok33

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

That is interesting and a little disappointing that Force Pulse is outperforming whip with the Asylum staff. That is the same gear setup I use on my sorc.

Unfortunately I didn’t keep any of my old Elf Bane test parses, just have the spreadsheet where I compared theoretical vs actual. As soon as I get around to retraiting my jewelry on live server I’ll get some screenshots up. Might be a few weeks though, as magDK is my 4th alt.

As for Siroria, it is definitely viable to run on front bar only and keep 20 stacks, it just requires a rotation with no more than 3 back bar skills in a row.

Edit: @arishok33 Wait do you mean 45k vs 48k on a target skeleton? That’s probably just the Minor Vulnerability from Concussion making the Asylum staff appear better. If you had group support providing this debuff then the 45k Elf Bane parse becomes a 48.6k, beating the 48k Asylum staff parse. The only other benefits from the Asylum staff are burning uptime (plenty already on magDK), chilled (at most a few hundred DPS, and applying a redundant minor main debuff), and range (which would not work with burning embers). I’m doubting that an Asylum magDK outperforms one with Whip and two 5-piece sets in trials.

Like I already wrote, minor vulnerability uptimes are kept in mind. It FP still outperfomed whip for me, but it's close.
I testet Elf Bane also with AS Staff and it gave me these bad numbers. And Frontbarring Siroria doesn't work for MagDk, at least not with the Rotation I play and found most effective (like I said, I main that class), since you have every second rotation 4 skills on the backbarwhen using trap, every third when using acceleration.
There are 2 setups I testet in Trials with Valariel and Ra'kotu and they are very close.
With FP what I posted above.
With Whip, Siroria, Zaan and frontbar BSW. That got me similar numbers in the raid, but still slightly less.
With Elf Bane....well, I don't want to talk it down for you and I'm not big on math, I just test it out. It was bad in comparison, like 4-5k difference.^^
Maybe try test the other setups yourself, see if you come to similar results.

Btw, to come back to topic:
I don't use bloodthirsty at all on the MagDK. It will give a small jump in DPS on the dummy ~1k, but I honestly consider that cheese, since in a raid arcane will be better again due to horn etc...
Maybe consider using it on DK for vHoF or Cloudrest, since the Execute Phases are the most difficult there.

RlDDlCK

arishok33 wrote: »

I actually don't have any parses with Elf Bane anymore and I don't plan on golding it out on live so sry, but feel free to post one where you achieve similar numbers with Elf Bane in any kind of combination.^^
As I said, best gear combination I tested by far:
Siroria, Zaan, AS Staff, MSA Staff, Willpower. When I tried it with Elf Bane I was consistently 3-4k lower, while BSW was only ~2k lower. So even BSW outperformed it.

Hey man, how's your skill bars look like in this case?
Thanks!

ruikkarikun

Hey. Tried bloodthirsty + 2 x infused and seems I'm missing stamina for sustain. How do you think will be better 2 x robust or other options?