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ZOS integrated spyware RedShell by mistake, deleted from live, still in PTS folder

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  • Kuwhar
    Kuwhar
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    clocksstoppe wrote: »
    ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »
    Everyone,

    My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

    Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

    That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

    Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

    Matt

    Good job you will remove it, too bad it's already installed in our systems somewhere and will keep spying on us forever. Prepare to be held accountable for that, especially with the GDRP now.

    Lol its literally 2-3 clicks to find it and delete if its still in after monday.
  • EasyTiger
    EasyTiger
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    If you believe they added it erroneously you'll believe anything. They actually think we're that stupid.
  • Caran
    Caran
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    Might have been a real oversight ... might not have been and it's only declared on oversight (and removed) because ZOS did not take into account the *** storm it generated or the new European laws.

    But as it officially was an oversight (hard to believe when the game does not start without it), I take it I won't get into trouble when I alter my host file so that redshell does not call home?
    Edited by Caran on June 1, 2018 7:03PM
  • Syncronaut
    Syncronaut
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    Chicharron wrote: »
    ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »
    Everyone,

    My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

    Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

    That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

    Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

    Matt

    Please, who believes you that?

    The only reason why you post this is because of the pressure of the users, previously written by a lawyer.

    Now, curiously, he's going to be removed from the game because it was never planned.

    I do not mind having redshell installed on my computer, but I do not believe you.

    Its just a damage control. We will see next week if loading times will improve with the removal of it.
    If this was the case they are lying. (i personaly have 3 times longer loading screen now that summerset was deployed)
    Also game doesnt work without it and for this to happen it needs a active file.

    Never, ever take a company word as truth.
    1 step foward 10 steps back
  • clocksstoppe
    clocksstoppe
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    Kuwhar wrote: »
    Lol its literally 2-3 clicks to find it and delete if its still in after monday.

    Do you realize an unauthorized spyware module was loaded and executed on your machine? It doesn't *** matter that they will delete it on monday, these redshell pricks already had the opportunity to do whatever the *** they wanted to our machines, the damage has been done.

    And to prove it, try to rename the dll and launch eso after that. It can't launch because it's linking against the dll from the first second of runtime, which means the ZOS employee is lying ("it ahs never been active" my ass) when he is claiming it's not used. If it weren't used, the game would never call into it and wouldn't need the dll to function.
    Edited by clocksstoppe on June 1, 2018 7:12PM
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
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    ManwithBeard9 wrote: »
    Woah, thanks for the update @ZOS_MattFiror and transparency, albeit a bit delayed.

    Delayed probably because they were waiting on a carefully worded response formulated with the help of lawyers. Looks like they decided saying it was a 'mistake' was the best course of action.
  • Caran
    Caran
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    one more thought: Those people who contacted RedShell to opt out ... did you ever get any hint from Redshell that they are not working with ZOS? Because if this was just a giant oversight and there were no valid connections at the moment between Redshell and ZOS wouldn't they tell you there is nothing to opt out of? Would they really say "We contacted ZOS and this is what we need from you to opt out ..."?
  • Rohamad_Ali
    Rohamad_Ali
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    How does one accidentally release a spyware program ?
  • Ley
    Ley
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    I appreciate OP updating the thread title and information. Hopefully it will help keep this thread from going way off track (no likely).
    Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade
  • pmn100b16_ESO
    pmn100b16_ESO
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    clocksstoppe wrote: »
    Kuwhar wrote: »
    Lol its literally 2-3 clicks to find it and delete if its still in after monday.

    Do you realize an unauthorized spyware module was loaded and executed on your machine? It doesn't *** matter that they will delete it on monday, these redshell pricks already had the opportunity to do whatever the *** they wanted to our machines, the damage has been done.

    And to prove it, try to rename the dll and launch eso after that. It can't launch because it's linking against the dll from the first second of runtime, which means the ZOS employee is lying ("it ahs never been active" my ass) when he is claiming it's not used. If it weren't used, the game would never call into it and wouldn't need the dll to function.
    Caran wrote: »
    one more thought: Those people who contacted RedShell to opt out ... did you ever get any hint from Redshell that they are not working with ZOS? Because if this was just a giant oversight and there were no valid connections at the moment between Redshell and ZOS wouldn't they tell you there is nothing to opt out of? Would they really say "We contacted ZOS and this is what we need from you to opt out ..."?

    Very good points.

    @ZOS_MattFiror ?
  • EasyTiger
    EasyTiger
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    Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
    How does one accidentally release a spyware program ?

    Just kinda slipped in there, ya know
  • DuskMarine
    DuskMarine
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    i found it day one with my antispyware and wiped it out no problem so im not to worried about it but never shoulda came through the update at all
  • Cpt_Teemo
    Cpt_Teemo
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    EasyTiger wrote: »
    Rohamad_Ali wrote: »
    How does one accidentally release a spyware program ?

    Just kinda slipped in there, ya know

    "Accident'
  • RANKK7
    RANKK7
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    ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »
    Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

    That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

    Thank you for the reply and for promptly removing the modules. I have no doubt you are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively, just remember we pay to play a game and that's the reason we invest on your product, to have a good time playing a game. Data is the core of content marketing and everything can be tracked, total transparency would be my bargaining chip as an asset for you to obtain such commodity.

    Thanks again for showing up to inform us.

    lll
    "I really don't know who the **** came off with this change. Definitely somebody who does not play the game, that's for sure".
    lll
  • houjo2000b16_ESO
    houjo2000b16_ESO
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    Naw it's cool peeps- they accidently put a spyware program in with their game that if you get rid of, the game doesn't work.

    I totally believe them.
  • Night_Watch
    Night_Watch
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    ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »
    Everyone,

    Nice polite explanation and apology.

    Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

    Matt

    Thanks Matt. Good to see Zos are taking notice. I just hope that the offending item is truly removed as and when stated as I suspect if not the manure will sure collide with the rotating air cooling device! :smile:


    Edited by Night_Watch on June 1, 2018 7:30PM
    "If there is an underlying oneness of all things, it does not matter where we begin, whether with stars, or laws of supply and demand, or frogs, or Napoleon Bonaparte. One measures a circle, beginning anywhere."

    Charles Fort - Lo! (1931)
  • JJBoomer
    JJBoomer
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    Thank you @ZOS_MattFiror thank you for addressing this and for letting us know how that we will be told how it will operate in the future.
  • LadyAstrum
    LadyAstrum
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    BaylorCorvette wrote: »
    Thanks @ZOS_MattFiror now everyone can take off their tin foil hats.

    No one was wearing one in the first place, if so they wouldn't have come out and announced they're removing it lol. People were right to express concern and annoyance that they were not informed about this, and thankfully when it is added again, next time people will be fully informed so they can opt-out, and there'll be more transparency from ZoS in future.



    Edited by LadyAstrum on June 1, 2018 7:32PM
    ~ "You think me brutish? How do you imagine I view you?" - Molag Bal #misunderstood ~
  • Raideen
    Raideen
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    Question. If complaints were never made about Redshell, would ZoS still remove it?
  • Cadbury
    Cadbury
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    Raideen wrote: »
    Question. If complaints were never made about Redshell, would ZoS still remove it?

    Not sure, but any victory is a good victory, amirite?
    "If a person is truly desirous of something, perhaps being set on fire does not seem so bad."
  • Recremen
    Recremen
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    ZOS_MattFiror wrote: »
    Everyone,

    My apologies for the confusion over the integration of Red Shell into ESO. Here’s what happened: we have been experimenting with a better way to link which advertisements and web content new players see to the eventual account that is created in the game. The ONLY purpose this would be used for is to determine from which origin points our new players come from, so we can better plan where to place advertisements and other web content. Existing accounts will never encounter this, as they are already created.

    Several factors came together in Update 18 and Red Shell was erroneously added to the live build when we were still testing and evaluating it. It has never been active in ESO, even though the base tech is in the client – i.e. it was never enabled. So, we will remove it from Update 18, which will take place in the PC/Mac incremental build scheduled for this coming Monday (it was never considered for Console, so won’t be in Tuesday’s U18 launch). We never should have done this without giving everyone a heads up it was coming, and we will learn from this mistake.

    That being said, we are still investigating how to use this technology in the future to grow and sustain ESO more effectively. When/if we do so, we will give everyone a heads up with clear instructions as to what it is doing, how it is doing it, and how to opt-out should you so desire.

    Check out the patch notes on Monday for the notice that Red Shell has been removed from U18, and we will keep everyone posted – and again, my apologies.

    Matt

    Thanks for the update, I'm sure almost all of us appreciate this level of transparency. In an age of unscrupulous data practices it's important for companies to maintain open communication with their customers on these issues.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • JasonSilverSpring
    JasonSilverSpring
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    People questioning how it accidentally got included should consider that they surely had included in some test branch to test it. Probably the code and files related to it got erroneously included in the live build.

    I manage a group that does software development (not video gaming) and we have had test code get accidentally loaded. Embarrassing and frustrating but it can happen.

    We won't know for sure which it is, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

    I noticed in this thread that when people contacted RedShell there seemed to be some confusion about ESO and how to opt out. To me that supports the accident scenario.
  • craftycarper73
    craftycarper73
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    proper shady goings on..

    Born, Bred & Made in Manchester UK, RIP 22 Angels. 22/05/2017

    PC-EU

    The Place by Tony Walsh Please Read
    This is the place in the North West of England

    It’s ace, it’s the best and the songs that we sing

    From the stands, from our bands set the whole planet shaking

    Our inventions are legends! There’s nowt we can’t make and



    So we make brilliant music. We make brilliant bands

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    And we make things from steel and we make things from cotton

    And we make people laugh, take the mick summat rotten



    And we make you at home and we make you feel welcome

    And we make summat happen, we can’t seem to help it

    And if you’re looking for history then yes, we’ve a wealth

    But the Manchester way is to make it yourself



    And make us a record, a new number one

    And make us a brew while you’re up, love. Go on!

    And make us feel proud that you’re winning the league

    And make us sing louder and make us believe it



    that this is the place that has helped shape the world

    And that this the place where a Manchester girl

    Name of Emmeline Pankhurst from the streets of Moss Side

    Led a Suffragette City with sisterhood pride



    And this is the place with appliance of science

    We’re on it, atomic, we strut with defiance

    In the face of a challenge we always stand tall

    Mancunians in union delivered it all



    Such as housing and libraries, and health, education

    And unions and co-ops, the first railway station

    So we’re sorry! Bear with us! We invented commuters!

    But we hope you forgive us – we invented computers!



    And this is the place Henry Royce strolled with Rolls

    And we’ve rocked and we’ve rolled with our own Northern Soul

    And so this is the place to do business, then dance

    Where go-getters and goal setters know they’ve a chance



    And this is the place where we first played as kids

    And me Mam lived and died here, she loved it she did

    And this is the place where our folks came to work

    Where they struggled in puddles, they hurt in the dirt



    And they built us a city. They built us these towns

    And they coughed on the cobbles to the deafening sound

    Of the steaming machines and the screaming of slaves

    They were scheming for greatness, they dreamed to their graves



    And they left us a spirit, they left us a vibe

    The Mancunian Way to survive and to thrive

    And to work and to build, to connect and create and

    Greater Manchester’s greatness is keeping it great



    And so this is the place now we’ve kids of our own

    Some are born here, some drawn here but we all call it home

    And they’ve covered the cobbles, but they’ll never defeat

    All the dreamers and schemers who still teem through these streets



    Because this is a place that has been through some hard times

    Oppressions, recessions, depressions and dark times

    But we keep fighting back with Greater Manchester spirit

    Northern grit, northern wit in Greater Manchester’s lyrics



    And there’s hard times again in these streets of our city

    But we won’t take defeat and we don’t want your pity

    Because this a place where we stand strong together

    With a smile on our face, Mancunians Forever



    And we’ve got this* as the place where a team with a dream (*Forever Manchester)

    Can get funding and something to help with their scheme

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    ‘Cos Greater Manchester gives us such strength from the fact

    That this is the place. We should give something back.

    Always remember. Never forget. Forever Manchester.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    Cpt_Teemo wrote: »
    MLGProPlayer wrote: »
    Ssalaar wrote: »
    Ley wrote: »
    I thought this thread was really popular with the hundreds of notifications I was getting, until I realized it's mostly the same handful of people going back and forth.

    I really don't see the big deal, anyone who uses the internet and thinks their information is private is delusional.

    I appreciate it when I have an option to opt-out of sharing information or at least get informed that my information is being collected, but for the most part I assume that when I use the internet, someone is getting information about me. I'm glad that OP brought this to our attention and provided instructions to opt-out but I feel like some people are taking this way out of proportion.

    I agree but i also hate companies that you have no choice but to accept and dont give the chance to opt out. IF you dont agree, then you cant play their game. Its easy, we are agreeing to 4 different things playing ZOS. dont need to have the privacy in with the ToS and thus we accept the ToS yet dont want ZoS to mine/sell my data for marketing crap.

    I understand they want to mine data for performance but marketing? that is a totally different topic. No need, sorry. I barely use FB and dont touch the "clickbait" ad's that they have on the newsfeed.

    You can opt out by filling out a form on Redshell's website.

    Then ESO will probably drop your connection to the game then, since you can't play without the DLL, what makes you think they'll let you play while opt out

    Because it's a legal opt out? It doesn't remove the file. It just stops collecting data from you.
  • Syncronaut
    Syncronaut
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    Raideen wrote: »
    Question. If complaints were never made about Redshell, would ZoS still remove it?

    Nope. I wouldt be suprised if other companys put this into their games to recently (like EA).

    They may (or they already did) put a redshell (or similar tracking software you cannot detect) into their Fifa games, since lootboxes are banned in some countrys now.

    Oh and they are lying. There is a list already.

    Email copy paste:

    Hello

    The mail is same as the account:
    *++++++++++++

    User name...not sure wich one, so i will provide bouth:
    Forum name (probaly not that one): ++++++++++++
    Userid: +++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Hopefully we can solve this issue.

    Their answer:
    Thanks, I'll send that over and let you know once you have been added to the list
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    BaylorCorvette wrote: »
    Thanks @ZOS_MattFiror now everyone can take off their tin foil hats.

    You mean ZOS didn't give my banking information away to Putin? Phew.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on June 1, 2018 7:48PM
  • yodased
    yodased
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    Look it comes down to this people.

    Someone found something they didnt know about but were worried about.

    Asked for help from the community, who identified what it is and where it was included

    We then asked ZOS for an explanation of ehat happened and whats going on.

    They gave you that.

    Like it, accept it, belive it, it doesnt matter. You have to appreciate the balls it takes to apologize, admit mistakes and show at leadt feigned remorse and forethought about transparency in the future.

    So, as little as its worth, you have my respect @zos_mattfiror

    Im not reinstalling your game, but i appreciate your [snip] fortitude.
    Edited by ZOS_JesC on June 3, 2018 3:02PM
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    JasonSilverSpring wrote: »
    People questioning how it accidentally got included should consider that they surely had included in some test branch to test it. Probably the code and files related to it got erroneously included in the live build.

    I manage a group that does software development (not video gaming) and we have had test code get accidentally loaded. Embarrassing and frustrating but it can happen.

    We won't know for sure which it is, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

    I noticed in this thread that when people contacted RedShell there seemed to be some confusion about ESO and how to opt out. To me that supports the accident scenario.

    Tinfoil hatters aren't always the most knowledgeable about the details of what they're protesting about.

    Anyone with some development/online business knowledge, here and on Reddit, kept a level head throughout this whole thing.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on June 1, 2018 7:55PM
  • Cpt_Teemo
    Cpt_Teemo
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    MLGProPlayer wrote: »
    Cpt_Teemo wrote: »
    MLGProPlayer wrote: »
    Ssalaar wrote: »
    Ley wrote: »
    I thought this thread was really popular with the hundreds of notifications I was getting, until I realized it's mostly the same handful of people going back and forth.

    I really don't see the big deal, anyone who uses the internet and thinks their information is private is delusional.

    I appreciate it when I have an option to opt-out of sharing information or at least get informed that my information is being collected, but for the most part I assume that when I use the internet, someone is getting information about me. I'm glad that OP brought this to our attention and provided instructions to opt-out but I feel like some people are taking this way out of proportion.

    I agree but i also hate companies that you have no choice but to accept and dont give the chance to opt out. IF you dont agree, then you cant play their game. Its easy, we are agreeing to 4 different things playing ZOS. dont need to have the privacy in with the ToS and thus we accept the ToS yet dont want ZoS to mine/sell my data for marketing crap.

    I understand they want to mine data for performance but marketing? that is a totally different topic. No need, sorry. I barely use FB and dont touch the "clickbait" ad's that they have on the newsfeed.

    You can opt out by filling out a form on Redshell's website.

    Then ESO will probably drop your connection to the game then, since you can't play without the DLL, what makes you think they'll let you play while opt out

    Because it's a legal opt out? It doesn't remove the file. It just stops collecting data from you.

    People from CE opted out before they took it out and they got there accounts suspended and couldn't connect I heard though, so yeah guess anythings possible if you don't abide by it
  • Ashtaris
    Ashtaris
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    EasyTiger wrote: »
    If you believe they added it erroneously you'll believe anything. They actually think we're that stupid.

    This is not the first time they forgot to remove something from the PTS before it went live. Remember the 1 crown houses? Of course ZOS corrected that problem in a couple of hours or less :)

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