why are the ESO forums better than others?

swippy

krachall wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Because the ESO forums are heavily censored and free speech doesn't exist on them

Some would consider that a good thing, others not

But it is what it is

What's hysterical is that the censoring seems to occur without the ZOS employee fully reading the post. Sad and funny.

I posted once that by deleting some alts and focusing on my main character, I've reduced the amount of boring grinding I felt obligated to do.

The post was locked because they don't allow "I quit" posts. ROFL...reading comprehension for the win, ZOS.

careful there my friend, it's a violation of the CoC to discuss specific moderation actions

TelvanniWizard

DanteYoda wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There's a difference between free speech and openly bashing or unconstructively criticizing. We do have community rules in place for a reason.

Disagree. And who moderates the moderators..

Yeah, I feel that censorship in this forums is a bit oppressive, but, that´s perfectly fine, because it´s private property with its own rules. If it was society itself, though...

Betsararie

Oompuh wrote: »

Please, there's less toxicity in Chernobyl.

These forums are, indeed, endlessly toxic, but at this point I've just grown to accept it. Sadly, and in especially in PVP, the toxicity is merely another demension to the game.

BozzyTheDrummer

Well compared to Bungie.net forums, the ESO forums are far less salty and the people are way nicer. People here actually have a willingness to help others, regardless of console/platform.

Malacthulhu

krachall wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Because the ESO forums are heavily censored and free speech doesn't exist on them

Some would consider that a good thing, others not

But it is what it is

What's hysterical is that the censoring seems to occur without the ZOS employee fully reading the post. Sad and funny.

I posted once that by deleting some alts and focusing on my main character, I've reduced the amount of boring grinding I felt obligated to do.

The post was locked because they don't allow "I quit" posts. ROFL...reading comprehension for the win, ZOS.

I actually flagged that one and told the mod that it wasnt a quiting post after he closed it. I was a little perturbed by it being closed, I enjoyed your post. That being said he probably has to baby sit a lot different posts. Their call, not ours.

Waffennacht

What I do find very funny about the "free speech" thing, is like, it only matters if whomever you're saying it to cares.

Example: if I'm silencing you, and you somehow get the words, "free speech!" Why does anyone think I'd suddenly stop silencing you? Just because you yell rights it doesn't mean I'm gonna respect them!

Just the philosopher in me I suppose, without some sort of force to back you up, there's nothing to stop me from stopping your rights.

And about the forums; I figure people are about the same anywhere

Betsararie

free speech. Please. They wouldn't know free speech if it presented itself to them.

Malacthulhu

Waffennacht wrote: »

What I do find very funny about the "free speech" thing, is like, it only matters if whomever you're saying it to cares.

Example: if I'm silencing you, and you somehow get the words, "free speech!" Why does anyone think I'd suddenly stop silencing you? Just because you yell rights it doesn't mean I'm gonna respect them!

Just the philosopher in me I suppose, without some sort of force to back you up, there's nothing to stop me from stopping your rights.

And about the forums; I figure people are about the same anywhere

Techinqally if its a right it can't be taken away?

Magenpie

I hate to break it to you but the USA isn't the only country in the universe, and these forums span many countries. The international legal 'T&Cs' might be more complicated and diverse than you think.

Aesthier

Recremen wrote: »

Aesthier wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

@Voxicity

Bunches of words generally have meaning. It sounds like you would rather ignore what I'm saying than actually grapple with the topic.

Speaking of meaning, "freedom of speech" is a well-defined term, and you aren't using it correctly. People are free to speak on the forums, and we're free to end our association with them if it's out of line with the rules we all agreed to adhere to while using the service. That's the whole point of that "bunch of words" I used in the first post. The government has everything to do with it, as they're the only ones who can impinge upon your freedom of speech.

Well, you are half right.

A better definition of Freedom of speech (not to be confused with the right to free speech) is "their ability" to state any opinions without censorship or restraint.

Much like freedom is the ability or capability to take action in anyway one desires limited only by their own physical or mental capacity.

The Rights of Individual Freedom are restricted by the society or community to which they belong and therefore are not a true representation of freedom.

For example, any person is free to go next door and kill their neighbor provided they have the physical or mental capability to do so. However, most societies restrict this freedom through the use of the law. If one does not obey these restrictions then they are placed in jail where their "ability" to take such actions against the populace is removed.


So freedom is the ability while the rights to enact such abilities are dictated by the society or community.

As far as these forums are concerned ZoS is the head of the society that dictates what rights will and will not be given or restricted.


Where speech is concerned ZoS decided that it would be better to restrict some of our ability right out the gate by directly censoring particular words through a filter. Those words will not show up if typed into these forums so for some words we do not even possess the ability to use in these forums.

Zos has also "defined" our rights to speech according to the guidelines posted in the community rules. If we choose to ignore those restrictions then through the use of forum banning we will lose our ability to express any ideas through these forums.

Any restriction, censorship, moderation, removal or alteration of one's ideas that were expressed through text is not free speech.

It is instead moderated and restricted speech and rightfully so as ZoS owns the site and hopes to maintain a healthy community.

I fully support these guidelines as ZoS is the governing body of this community and I must accept them in order to make use of the rights which they have provided me.

So no the "rights" that ZoS gives us in the use of their forums is not freedom of speech but restricted speech and it is ZoS, not the government that rules on what is appropriate and what isn't in these forums.

@Aesthier

That's not a better definition of free speech, and near as I can tell you have completely invented a separation between "freedom of speech" and "the right to free speech". I've never read of any such distinction, and even gave you the benefit of the doubt and did a thorough search to try to find it referenced literally anywhere. Unfortunately, it appears to be a complete fabrication. Similarly, I don't know of and can't find anything on "The Rights of Individual Freedom". Are you referring to individual liberties?

In any case, while it's true that one definition of freedom involves the ability to act "without hindrance or restraint", it's completely facile to be using that definition as a basis for argument, and reprehensible to be advocating for any kind of freedom that meets those criteria. Either we're using the definitions of freedom in the context of some relevant legal system administered by the state, or you are literally, in your own words, advocating for people's freedom to "go next door and kill their neighbor". To reiterate, your definition is one of the existing valid definitions of the word, but it's not the only one and the implications are horrendous if that's the one you want to use as your argumentative basis.

It is absolutely farcical to paint ZOS as the head of society here, or as in any way dictating rights. Rights are granted through the power of the state, and if ZOS was in any way impinging on those rights they would be opening themselves up to legal repercussions. For an example of the limits on their power, if they broke laws regarding the freedom of association by having some sort of a race requirement for community participation, then people would have grounds to open up a lawsuit. Instead, what ZOS is doing is outlining the community rules that we agree to. They abide by the existing social laws, and so failure to meet those rules is, as I stated already, best viewed through the lens of the freedom of association.

You're right regarding it being their website, of course. We can also view this through the lens of private property rights and laws. But under no circumstances are the impinging on our freedom of speech. We all chose to join this community under the contract that we would follow the community rules. We are restricting our own speech when we choose to use this communication platform. As soon as we choose not to restrict our speech, the community stops choosing to associate with us. It's really not as authoritarian as some folks are trying to make it sound.

I stand by my previous statement.

Tasear

Better game of the bunch

Davor

Ok guys, if you are so sure of yourself about freedom of speech, Take Zenimax to court and let's see how much you are correct. It shouldn't even cost you anything because if true the government would step in here.

So contact your government and see what happens. Otherwise you are not proving yourself correct just because you say so.

Lysette

krachall wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Because the ESO forums are heavily censored and free speech doesn't exist on them

Some would consider that a good thing, others not

But it is what it is

What's hysterical is that the censoring seems to occur without the ZOS employee fully reading the post. Sad and funny.

I posted once that by deleting some alts and focusing on my main character, I've reduced the amount of boring grinding I felt obligated to do.

The post was locked because they don't allow "I quit" posts. ROFL...reading comprehension for the win, ZOS.

I would not want to do their job, tbh - having to read through all this and not taking a short cut from time to time would drive them insane I guess. I can understand that they might not read all in detail - that is tiring work and in a burst of flaming with some topics, this is a really exhausting job, I guess.

Tonnopesce

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There's a difference between free speech and openly bashing or unconstructively criticizing. We do have community rules in place for a reason.

+ everyone here loves Gina and we try to Tone down our posts so we don't get her angry....







Can i have a free crown crate plz?

TelvanniWizard

Tonnopesce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There's a difference between free speech and openly bashing or unconstructively criticizing. We do have community rules in place for a reason.

+ everyone here loves Gina and we try to Tone down our posts so we don't get her angry....







Can i have a free crown crate plz?

C´mon man. Don´t fall so low.

Tonnopesce

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There's a difference between free speech and openly bashing or unconstructively criticizing. We do have community rules in place for a reason.

+ everyone here loves Gina and we try to Tone down our posts so we don't get her angry....







Can i have a free crown crate plz?

C´mon man. Don´t fall so low.

I need my crates... For reasons.

TelvanniWizard

Tonnopesce wrote: »

TelvanniWizard wrote: »

Tonnopesce wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

There's a difference between free speech and openly bashing or unconstructively criticizing. We do have community rules in place for a reason.

+ everyone here loves Gina and we try to Tone down our posts so we don't get her angry....







Can i have a free crown crate plz?

C´mon man. Don´t fall so low.

I need my crates... For reasons.

MyKillv2.0

Lolz. Some of you are trying to hard to earn an invite to next years early access testing.

Seriously though, I am glad so many are speaking up about the censorship that goes on here. It will not change anything but I am glad at least people aren’t afraid to speak up on an obvious blatant issue.

Turelus

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

Lolz. Some of you are trying to hard to earn an invite to next years early access testing.

Seriously though, I am glad so many are speaking up about the censorship that goes on here. It will not change anything but I am glad at least people aren’t afraid to speak up on an obvious blatant issue.

@MyKillv2.0 What do you feel is censored?

johnnified

For one reason they better....

YOU have to OWN ESO in order to post.

That is the good part. Nobody can just make new dumb accounts to troll and spam.

Bam_Bam

Azurya wrote: »

myrakrista wrote: »

I’ve been on different gaming forums and I’d say ESO forums has a pretty good community. For example, I play between Overwatch and ESO. The Overwatch forums for one has too many dumb complaints that looks like they were made by some angsty teenagers trying to look smart. When I visit ESO forums, the complaints aren’t as dumb or whiney. Why is it that ESO forums are generally soooo much better than other gaming forums I’ve been to?

really???
I played a lot of games, but this is one of the oddiest forums with whinies all the time if they get killed by something and then start calling for nerfs of this and that, before thinking about how to counterplay it...................

This x10000000

It used to be a pretty close knit community. But now, most players generally stay away from the forums due to the negativity/toxicity and QQing as well as some brutal policing of the forums.

If I was a dev here, I'd take one look at the forums and think "LOL, more screaming and tantrums on the forums, so I think I'll go an observe players in game instead.... *

Aluneth

I would rate the forum at a 7/10. It's not the best forum out there, but it's not a dump either.

My biggest complaint is that you don't log into the forum with your ESO account.

Turelus

Aluneth wrote: »

I would rate the forum at a 7/10. It's not the best forum out there, but it's not a dump either.

My biggest complaint is that you don't log into the forum with your ESO account.

I'd agree with that as well. It would have been a better set-up to have user ID the same on both. Might be due to security but other smaller companies have done it and remained secure.

srfrogg23

myrakrista wrote: »

I’ve been on different gaming forums and I’d say ESO forums has a pretty good community. For example, I play between Overwatch and ESO. The Overwatch forums for one has too many dumb complaints that looks like they were made by some angsty teenagers trying to look smart. When I visit ESO forums, the complaints aren’t as dumb or whiney. Why is it that ESO forums are generally soooo much better than other gaming forums I’ve been to?

Zos doesn’t support “white-knight-ing”. Derogatory comments, even if made to defend Zos, are heavily moderated.

Zos does allow for criticism of the game and its systems, along with constructive debate about the validity of those systems, as long as people don’t verbally attack each other in the process.

In short, toxicity is rejected while “toxicity” is allowed. Some players view criticism as “toxicity”, and actual toxicity is removed from the responses to the criticism. That’s why these forums tend to be better than most others.

Davor

Just been to the Bethesda forums and my god I forgot how much I hate it there. One simple fix is needed and it still hasn't been done. At least here when we click on a link we go to the first unread post, over on the Bethesda forums, you want to read a thread you already read you always go back to the first post.

It doesn't matter how well the people are but when you have bad formatting and bad mechanics it makes the forum enjoyment so much less I hardly go there as I use to.

So it's just not the people who are awesome. It's also how the forums work and make it much more user friendly here than other forums I have seen.

Cadbury

7/10 feels about right. Heck, forum lurking is sometimes more fun than the actual game. Just get a bag of popcorn and embrace the insanity.

Sure beats the Destiny 2 forums, let me tell you...

Davor

Besides the old Bethesda forums, what forums are better than ESO? I don't go to many forums so I wouldn't know.