Dear ZOS: Please take a look at the jewellery crafting numbers

AlnilamE

Iselin wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

There are people who opened their money hole and cashed out several hundred IRL dollars to get jewelry crafting researched to cap already.
There are already people who have forked out several hundred thousand in game gold to get enough necklaces and rings to get to level 50.

These are the same people who say there is nothing wrong with the system and that if they could do it (with money) everyone should be able to do it.

As Josiavah said, there is minimal benefit of Blue to Gold Jewelry. To give an example:
Moondancer: There is 40 Magicka, and 6 spell damage difference between Blue and Gold. That equates to... 10 dps if that.

I do not like the 10x requirements for tempering, I won't be using it for that until the cost drops, or it becomes in line with the rest of the professions. I will simply be using it transmute existing sets to other traits. Berserking to Robust, or Alkosh to Healthy as two examples. I always run at least 1 dungeon/trials set anyway so I can maintain the crafted set to be weapons / armor.

I have done neither of those things. I *may* look for researchable items in the future, but for now I am covered.

Iselin wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Jameliel wrote: »

Recette wrote: »

People are whining about this way too much. The system is perfect the way it is right now. Crafting should be rewarding to those who are willing to invest time and effort into it, and not be instantly accessible to anyone without such effort.

People im MMOs yearn way too much for instant gratification, which is exactly what this system does not provide. That is a good thing since it means stuff won't get shallow and boring a short while after release.

To sum it up, the jewelery crafting system is excellent.

Props to Zenimax for implementing it the way they did.

This is ridiculous. You are in the extreme minority. People like you accept almost anything. Jewelry crafting as is takes far too long and is too expensive. I put enough "effort" into my job. When I play a game, I want to do that..Play. I don't want to spend literal days worth of hours running around swinging a virtual pickaxe with my fingers crossed. The grind is horrible on many levels.

How does it compare to leveling Blacksmithing or Woodworking? How about enchanting?

I remember it took me a few months to hit level 50 in those. With the writs and the accessibility of intricate jewelry, it's going to take far less time to level Jewelcrafting.

You don't even get what we're talking about do you?

No one is complaining about getting it to 50 nor researching the traits because that is exactly like the other armor/weapon crafts. Much easier to research all 9 traits compared to blacksmithing as a matter of fact because it's only 2 items to research compared to 14.

It's the 10X upgrade grind to get the mats needed to go from white to green and green to blue and blue to purple and purple to gold that anyone who crafts their own will have to do. That's what this thread is about.

I do get it. But you guys forgot what it was like to be new and not have resources. When you had to consider carefully if you were going to upgrade to purple, let alone gold.

As ViniusNastavnik said above, the main purpose of this is to be able to retrait jewelry.

Though I'm sure that in a few months when everyone has their refining passives maxed, the improvers will become more common. And in a year, people will start improving jewelry to gold without batting an eye like they do with everything else.

Retraiting is not what crafting is about lol. Being able to improve and retrait drops is not even crafting in the true sense of the term.

I get that this is what non-crafters think about but those of us who craft from white to whatever improved quality we're happy with do the full thing.

And I'm glad you brought up the scarcity of our upgade mats when we were new to the game and it took us a while to think nothing about making something we crafted purple. Now keep that thought and that timeline in mind... you got it? Now multiply that by 10.

I guess you are right. Since I don't have the Jewelry Crafting achievements to get the Grand Master Crafter yet, that makes me a "non-crafter".

I will hold that timeline in mind, multiply it by 10 and then divide by 2.5 and be fine with it.

Knootewoot

Recette wrote: »

People are whining about this way too much. The system is perfect the way it is right now. Crafting should be rewarding to those who are willing to invest time and effort into it, and not be instantly accessible to anyone without such effort.

People im MMOs yearn way too much for instant gratification, which is exactly what this system does not provide. That is a good thing since it means stuff won't get shallow and boring a short while after release.

To sum it up, the jewelery crafting system is excellent.

Props to Zenimax for implementing it the way they did.

Concerning learning traits i give no props, as it is a lazy implement of putting those traits behind ridiculous RNG numbers, I read someone 150 writ vouchers for 1 ring?

DaveMoeDee

BuddyAces wrote: »

They want to sell research scrolls. This was their answer.

Research isn't a big deal. People will finish that and improving jewelry will still be insanely expensive. And if improving is so costly, that discourages bothering researching the traits.

CyberSkooma

Recette wrote: »

People are whining about this way too much. The system is perfect the way it is right now. Crafting should be rewarding to those who are willing to invest time and effort into it, and not be instantly accessible to anyone without such effort.

People im MMOs yearn way too much for instant gratification, which is exactly what this system does not provide. That is a good thing since it means stuff won't get shallow and boring a short while after release.

To sum it up, the jewelery crafting system is excellent.

Props to Zenimax for implementing it the way they did.

This mindset is a problem. If you want jewelry crafting to be difficult, fine. But this is near impossible for many people to do.

Yes. Impossible
ZOS continues to widen the gap between players. You have your casual players that just want to play, your hardcore veteran players that want everything to be only accomplish-able by the top 1%, and then the ones in the middle that just get screwed with every update.

siggi1856

I just did the jewellery daily writ on 9(!) jewellery level 50 chars and i got: 0 gold stuff, 0 purple stuff, 0 surveys. in the moment i lose money if i do the writs. that is not how understand "rewarding".

olsborg

siggi1856 wrote: »

I totally understand that ZOS wants it to be special, but i think 10x more special is far too much.

Totally and utterly agree. Make it require 16 (double) tempers to increase it to golden, but 10x is just.....sad.

radiostar

They raised the ceiling and lowered the floor.

Beardimus

It's weird how in an MMO people want everything day 1. It's a weird mentality.

If instant gratification is your thing surely there are better genres of games.

I do agree a Writ should reward more than the cost so the 100 writ for gold jewelry / 10 writ for Psjic Ambrosia etc etc isn't cool.

But in terms of pace of leveling JC i think it sounds about right to me. I'll focus on research the traits i might need, and just plod along. I have AP so may burn bags to get the last 25 levels but i have eno immediate urgency to have it called so will be patient.

siggi1856

radiostar wrote: »

They raised the ceiling and lowered the floor.

They always say that they want to do the opposite but i also can't see it.

OT: They pushed with Summerset the importance of Light Attack weaving. This helps only the good players and makes it even more difficult for the average to compete.

Qbiken

What I´m ok with regarding jewellery-crafting:

* Effort it takes to get from 0 to 50
* Amount of time it takes to research all the traits
* Materials needed to craft the jewellery

What I´m not ok with:
* Amount of tempers you´re required to use in order to upgrade. The system where you need 10 dusts to get 1 temper is ridiculous. Lower the amount of required tempers needed to upgrade and the system is ok.

I´m usually fine with grinding gear as long as it´s somewhat enjoyable. Running around farming harvesting nodes so I can rely on RNG to get some dusts is not enjoyable content, at least not for me. And I don't buy the argument that "the difference between purple and gold is so small that it doesn´t even matter". Maybe for you it doesn´t matter, but for some people it might matter, for whatever reasons they might have. A system can still be horribly designed even if the difference between purple and gold jewellery might be small.

I´ve played for about 4 years and I´ve been through the times when you couldn´t trade BoP gear in dungeons with each other, or when monster helmets wasn´t guaranteed to drop. I´ve farmed vMA when you wasn´t guaranteed to get a weapon in the end. I´ve farmed gear when transmutation-system didn´t exist. I´ve been there and done the grind, and I used to believe everyone should "work for it", but that kind of entitlement is very toxic and nothing good will come out of it. In the end of the day, the only thing that matters is if the stuff ZOS creates are considered enjoyable or entertaining, and in its current state, jewellery crafting is non of that.

siggi1856

Beardimus wrote: »

It's weird how in an MMO people want everything day 1. It's a weird mentality.

If instant gratification is your thing surely there are better genres of games.

Thats so much not the point :-)

I spent already a lot of time and around 7 million gold for jewellery crafting. Thats not the problem.
As i wrote before as an example: In the moment i lose money if I do daily writs. That makes no sense at all.

We are not talking about instant. We are talking about the fact that it takes 10-12 times longer compared to other crafting professions.

as already some people wrote: you need 8.000 - 16.000 raw materials to get one piece of jewellery to gold quality. i still think this is far too much.

Pixel_Zealot

Zenimax's choices seem to be borderline schizophrenic.

In one patch, we have them drastically changing CP to accommodate new players, and a quote, "Raising the floor and dropping the ceiling.", so casuals aren't alienated by the die-hards. This was shortly after OT last year, if I remember correctly.

Then they shove Jewelry crafting in and alienate 50-75% of their player base who can't afford the gold or time for it. Why? So you can fix it later and we can commend you for it? It doesn't make sense.

NoTimeToWait

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

And so gold jewelry will remain rare...just as they intended, and thats just fine actually because the difference between purple and gold is marginal at best. The only people really hurt by this are those who run 2 crafted sets...but its the cost of running 2 crafted sets I suppose.

So with a few exceptions, jewelry post-Summerset is exactly the same as jewelry pre-Summerset because no one can get the new traits to drop, and no one can get the mats to upgrade, meaning everyone runs the same dropped sets they ran beforehand. Making it a waste of time both for the developers who made it and the players who use it! I wish I could say I was happy to know that their development funds were being spent making content that added meaningfully to the game, but, well...

Not so true. Actually, you forget about transmutation. So, if you learned 6 most meaningful traits (which is not actually that hard), you will be able to supply your characters with some decent jewelry.

If you wanted to get some profit with jewelry crafting, well, you are ok too, at least in the first weeks of jewelry crafting. As usual, to make gold you need to have a general idea how to make gold in this game

Heka Cain

I think! I think I am! Therefore I am! I think!

inf.toniceb17_ESO

Well leveling isn't that bad. Annoying as hell if you level it on many toons, yes, but generally ~12 hours of Alik'r dolmens and you will hit lvl 50. It's something i can deal with. I have to agree about tempers tho. It's way too much esp considering that seams share same spawn points with ore. And wtf with those writs? One golden jewelery should give 1050 vouchers, not 105.

VelimOrthic

There are a lot of things that should be more equal than they currently are in this world.

Video game crafting is not one of them. LOL. What an utterly absurd gripe.

Wayshuba

Recette wrote: »

People are whining about this way too much. The system is perfect the way it is right now. Crafting should be rewarding to those who are willing to invest time and effort into it, and not be instantly accessible to anyone without such effort.

People im MMOs yearn way too much for instant gratification, which is exactly what this system does not provide. That is a good thing since it means stuff won't get shallow and boring a short while after release.

To sum it up, the jewelery crafting system is excellent.

Props to Zenimax for implementing it the way they did.

It is not instant gratification. It was going to take time regardless. Still going to take people months before they have it maxed out.

What it is, is a system different from all the other crafting structures for no good game design reason whatsoever.

Jewelry Crafting is should mimic blacksmithing, woodworking and clothing. Instead, it has had needless grind added and vital passive removed to make it tedious. What is even worse is people PAID to get jewelry crafting - it was not a free update added to the game.

This is why people have an issue with it.

Kikke

Stop crying, we allready have maxed Jewel Crafters running around. There are allready gold plating for sale. Even with this grind they failed. People have 7+traits researched, 50 jewel crafting, some have ALLREADY crafted gold jewerly for them self.

It's NOT grindy, your just whiny!

TheCyberDruid

The main problem with the '10th of upgrade material' system will be that people are 'cherry picking' JC nodes which in turn will respawn in 80% (?) of the time as normal metal nodes. Making the JC nodes more rare over time unless nameless heroes (me ) pick up those pesky metal nodes and make room for the glorious JC nodes to respawn. In the first few days it was pretty clear that the JC node rate is between 20-25% of the nodes, but over the course of a week those percentages dwindled. Getting the raw materials and thus a chance to get the upgrade materials by refining it will be 'interesting'. Given how most of the 'please loot chests completely' discussions go I don't have high hopes that people will understand that grabbing all metal nodes will increase the chance for them to actually find JC nodes.

Oh and don't even get me started about Psijic portals...

VelimOrthic

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

The main problem with the '10th of upgrade material' system will be that people are 'cherry picking' JC nodes which in turn will respawn in 80% (?) of the time as normal metal nodes. Making the JC nodes more rare over time unless nameless heroes (me ) pick up those pesky metal nodes and make room for the glorious JC nodes to respawn. In the first few days it was pretty clear that the JC node rate is between 20-25% of the nodes, but over the course of a week those percentages dwindled. Getting the raw materials and thus a chance to get the upgrade materials by refining it will be 'interesting'. Given how most of the 'please loot chests completely' discussions go I don't have high hopes that people will understand that grabbing all metal nodes will increase the chance for them to actually find JC nodes.

Oh and don't even get me started about Psijic portals...

My concern has been that only a % of them are eligible to switch off between jewelry and ore, and that the bulk of them will forever only be ore. That's a problem if you use the addon (I always forget addon names) that marks where you found something. Last thing you want is 400% extra markers watering down the ones you found jewelry at. Is there anything that disproves this concern?

SugaComa

You know you're all viewing this all wrong ...

Jewelry crafting is a supplement addition

Example

You have 5 julianos and 4 other set peices you need one ring or one neck for the 5, you craft that one peice in julianos and farm for another body piece as it's easier ...

You're not meant to build whole sets in jewelry

Or additionally you get a blue ring I. Your chosen set, you can upgrade to purple , then later to gold

Troneon

The whole system from design upwards is completely stupid.....wtf were ZOS thinking I do not know.

Even the harvesting nodes shared with Blacksmithing is just ridiculous....not that it matters because by the time you have enough refined upgrade materials to make JUST ONE purple or legendary jewellery piece you will have about 10,000 mats in your bank....

Azurya

I like it the way it is, atm.
just to early for me to say anything, but one char I push, that goes really quick
and yeah that getting upgrade mats would be a pain at the beginning was clear enough
but that will get better in time

flowers for ZOS the way they did it so far!

BuddyAces

I'll say it again, it's made this way to sell research scrolls from the crown store.

The end game folks can run stuff for their gold jewelry.

Those whom have money to spend irl can buy research scrolls.

Those rich in game can buy the mats.

The ones who get hit the worse with this are the casual folks who could have really made the best use out of jewelry crafting.

I personally don't care because I'm in the category of "when I get there, I'll get there." My jc lvl is only 22. Whatever.

Cpt_Teemo

The writs are so weak that I have done nearly 150 Max Tier JC writs already from 13 max Jcfers so far and still only have obtained 2/10 lesser tempers I mean really come on

Erraln

Just to throw my two cents on the pile... I'm one of those invested players who got JC maxed early and can now make people set jewelry.

So far I've been contacted to craft half a dozen 3-item sets in purple quality. Every, single, person who has been told the price I'd have to charge them for it has backed down and settled for blue. Forget Legendary, regular players can't even afford Epic. These are people at end-game, accepting two downgrades because their play doesn't let them afford what they actually want to have under the current system.

That doesn't strike me as the correct user experience.

AlnilamE

CyberSkooma wrote: »

Recette wrote: »

People are whining about this way too much. The system is perfect the way it is right now. Crafting should be rewarding to those who are willing to invest time and effort into it, and not be instantly accessible to anyone without such effort.

People im MMOs yearn way too much for instant gratification, which is exactly what this system does not provide. That is a good thing since it means stuff won't get shallow and boring a short while after release.

To sum it up, the jewelery crafting system is excellent.

Props to Zenimax for implementing it the way they did.

This mindset is a problem. If you want jewelry crafting to be difficult, fine. But this is near impossible for many people to do.

Yes. Impossible
ZOS continues to widen the gap between players. You have your casual players that just want to play, your hardcore veteran players that want everything to be only accomplish-able by the top 1%, and then the ones in the middle that just get screwed with every update.

You may be shocked to learn this, but there are players out there that are still researching Nirncrux on some items.

siggi1856 wrote: »

I just did the jewellery daily writ on 9(!) jewellery level 50 chars and i got: 0 gold stuff, 0 purple stuff, 0 surveys. in the moment i lose money if i do the writs. that is not how understand "rewarding".

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

The writs are so weak that I have done nearly 150 Max Tier JC writs already from 13 max Jcfers so far and still only have obtained 2/10 lesser tempers I mean really come on

OK, I think you guys are nuts to have so many characters maxed in jewelcrafting after just a week. However, it does sound like the writs need better rewards, particularly since there is no jewelcrafting hireling.

xXSilverDragonXx

Jewelry in its current released state convinced me that ZOS has zero connection with reality and its player base or gives ZERO cares about them.

To level jewelry you have to grind dolmens because jewelry does not drop as much or as often as light, heavy and medium. This alone really made the whole thing utterly absurd. You would have to wait ages to level to 50 though NORMAL REGULAR GAMEPLAY that does not include grinding dolmens. It should level in 1/2 to 3/4 the time it does and there should be trait stones that are not just the ancient three coming from refining mats. This system is a joke.

Linaleah

and here is another thing to consider. furniture patterns? ALSO require full upgrade mats. so typical purple furnishing might require couple of linings, or mastics, which is pretty doable. new furnishings? require TEN TIMES THAT. becasue of the whole grains to plating system.

yes yes, I get it, they want us to just buy furniture with crowns, but that is NOT good for the game as a whole.

Cpt_Teemo

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

Jewelry in its current released state convinced me that ZOS has zero connection with reality and its player base or gives ZERO cares about them.

To level jewelry you have to grind dolmens because jewelry does not drop as much or as often as light, heavy and medium. This alone really made the whole thing utterly absurd. You would have to wait ages to level to 50 though NORMAL REGULAR GAMEPLAY that does not include grinding dolmens. It should level in 1/2 to 3/4 the time it does and there should be trait stones that are not just the ancient three coming from refining mats. This system is a joke.

^ I really thought SI would have been different guess not