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Stam Dominates BGs

BANK_IT_HERE
BANK_IT_HERE
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So to get from point to point in Crazy King, you need to run, which requires stamina if don't want to walk. To get from point to point in Domination requires stamina. I spend my whole time on a MagDK out of stamina, and then get cc'd as soon as I'm in a fight. That's a pain in the ass enough. But, now in Chaosball, the new thing is for stamina to run around in circles and just out run the enemy...and as soon as the he/she is about to die, they (at least on one map), the jump off the map, and reset it with their 3 teammates waiting to pick it up again. Literally the most boring game a MagDK can have. I can't keep up with the stamina dude running in circles, and the premade team craps on you when try to go for the ball. Perhaps a rework is in order for Chaosball...you can't just have a bunch of stam sorcs outrunning every mag toon.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    Mag is capable of dominating just as much, bgs was filled with mag builds at one point. I played magplar in bgs for a good amount of time and was able to perform well. In fact, you have a better chance on a class like magplar to dominate in every game mode for the simple fact you can heal, do damage and take damage which is rewarded in bgs.

    The only reason I wouldn’t play mag is because of the lack of mobility but for that I’d just play magblade.
    Ebonheart Pact: Templar - Overlord - Knight Paladin Tiberium Aka The Golden Saint

  • JWillCHS
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    It has been a full year since I started to PvP and take it seriously. I've improved my skill in 1v1 and even 1vX. I don't think stamina is the problem, but the game design.

    Outside of the biggest appeal which are things like Morrowind and Summerset; the game's complexity is synonymous with the word "broken". There's are so many things in PvP(and PvE) that scream, "this was the original intent, but we can't really fix it".

    I think jewelry crafting and even some of the new abilities introduced in Summerset will make things more interesting for magicka playing styles(even with mobility). Just give it time. Or go try Bless Online next Monday.

  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Mag is capable of dominating just as much, bgs was filled with mag builds at one point. I played magplar in bgs for a good amount of time and was able to perform well. In fact, you have a better chance on a class like magplar to dominate in every game mode for the simple fact you can heal, do damage and take damage which is rewarded in bgs.

    The only reason I wouldn’t play mag is because of the lack of mobility but for that I’d just play magblade.

    Yeah, magplars are versatile, but, as you say, lack mobility like mag dks.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Slot chains

    I just don't feel I have room on my bars that is just for mobility, because I it's not a skill I would use in combat, except to chase stam around??? :smile:
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    I don't think mobility is that much of a problem honestly. Some do run, but I mainly top score by kiting around spawn with a lingering speed pot.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    I don't think mobility is that much of a problem honestly. Some do run, but I mainly top score by kiting around spawn with a lingering speed pot.

    Yeah, that's good for you. I was more looking at the big picture of running between Crazy King points, Domination points and the many stam that do run around with speed pots. But good approach for the MagDK.
  • PhoenixGrey
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    You should rephrase

    Stam dominates PVP not just BG's :)
    DC Sorc: Fading Phoenix
    AD Warden: Grey Phoenix
  • Betsararie
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    PVP is at a point where stam is for killing and dealing damage, and mag is solely for support and healing roles. Mag is simply not viable for DD roles in PVP this patch.
  • Mojomonkeyman
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    Bleeds dominate BGs. It's disgusting.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo (MMR too high, RIP) & Mighty Mojo Monkey
  • Vaoh
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    ecru wrote: »
    Any movement speed buffs working while holding onto objectives is bad design IMO. Speed while carrying an objective should be the same across the board regardless of what your build is or gear set or whatever.

    This is especially bad when movement speed can differ so much from one player to the next and the run between objectives are extremely short.

    ZOS needs to poach a pvp dev from WoW or something to get these things sorted because they're getting so many extremely basic things wrong when it comes to balance in instanced pvp. Other games solved these problems years ago.

    ^^^^^
    100% agree

    I’ll also add that I love BGs, but flaws like these are so painfully obvious rn.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Slot chains

    I just don't feel I have room on my bars that is just for mobility, because I it's not a skill I would use in combat, except to chase stam around??? :smile:

    If you can’t find a slot for a mobility utility skill that also empowers your next attack and deals undodgeable damage then idk what to really say tbh. If you’re consistently having problems with your build against stam specs and refuse to adjust then quite frankly that’s a you issue not a stam issue.

    Stam is very strong in BGs, but it’s less about mobility and more about on demand aoe burst via DBoS/Leap(warden, dk, stamplar), or Being able to run tons of damage and rely on in class sustain/escape tools(NB, sorc).

    But, let’s be honest, the single most impactful spec in any BG is a tanky magplar healer and it’s not even close. Assuming equal skill between two groups it’s usually the group with the superior healer that will consistently win. Furthermore, Resto Ult is insane in BGs and there are so many magika based support sets you can make a solid argument for minimum 2 Magika specs in an ideal group comp

    I guess I'll do me. Yes, no room on my bar for that setup. And I'll say it again, my point about stam in BGs is not about how good they are or are not in a fight, but mobility. They get from point to point better and with stam to spare, and some are using it to run in circles in Chaosball. That's my point. It's where I struggle with my MagDK. I am always out of stam because of those three things. I'm not worried about fighting them.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Bleeds dominate BGs. It's disgusting.

    Yeah, bleed really caught in PVP, and there's nothing you can do about it except purge it if a Templar.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    Any movement speed buffs working while holding onto objectives is bad design IMO. Speed while carrying an objective should be the same across the board regardless of what your build is or gear set or whatever.

    This is especially bad when movement speed can differ so much from one player to the next and the run between objectives are extremely short.

    ZOS needs to poach a pvp dev from WoW or something to get these things sorted because they're getting so many extremely basic things wrong when it comes to balance in instanced pvp. Other games solved these problems years ago.

    ^^^^^
    100% agree

    I’ll also add that I love BGs, but flaws like these are so painfully obvious rn.

    Yeah, I know I'm not changing anything. My main is a MagDK, and I am going to stick with him for PVP...except when I need to level Assault/Support for a toon. Just annoying when I run across the map in Crazy King or Domination and then get cc'd while out of stam. Or my stam hasn't recovered, and time to go to new point.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    Any movement speed buffs working while holding onto objectives is bad design IMO. Speed while carrying an objective should be the same across the board regardless of what your build is or gear set or whatever.

    This is especially bad when movement speed can differ so much from one player to the next and the run between objectives are extremely short.

    ZOS needs to poach a pvp dev from WoW or something to get these things sorted because they're getting so many extremely basic things wrong when it comes to balance in instanced pvp. Other games solved these problems years ago.

    ^^^^^
    100% agree

    I’ll also add that I love BGs, but flaws like these are so painfully obvious rn.

    Yeah, I know I'm not changing anything. My main is a MagDK, and I am going to stick with him for PVP...except when I need to level Assault/Support for a toon. Just annoying when I run across the map in Crazy King or Domination and then get cc'd while out of stam. Or my stam hasn't recovered, and time to go to new point.

    And Capture the Relic....also takes a lot of stam to run back relics.
  • Vaoh
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    Vaoh wrote: »
    ecru wrote: »
    Any movement speed buffs working while holding onto objectives is bad design IMO. Speed while carrying an objective should be the same across the board regardless of what your build is or gear set or whatever.

    This is especially bad when movement speed can differ so much from one player to the next and the run between objectives are extremely short.

    ZOS needs to poach a pvp dev from WoW or something to get these things sorted because they're getting so many extremely basic things wrong when it comes to balance in instanced pvp. Other games solved these problems years ago.

    ^^^^^
    100% agree

    I’ll also add that I love BGs, but flaws like these are so painfully obvious rn.

    Yeah, I know I'm not changing anything. My main is a MagDK, and I am going to stick with him for PVP...except when I need to level Assault/Support for a toon. Just annoying when I run across the map in Crazy King or Domination and then get cc'd while out of stam. Or my stam hasn't recovered, and time to go to new point.

    I just spam Stamina pots like crazy. About 3K Essence of Stam Pots left :/ When those run out I’m going to have to quit BGs or spend AP to buy Alliance Stam Pots.

    I really wish the price of Essence of Mag/Health/Stam Pots was really low (lik 15g per) so we could use them all the time.
  • Lexxypwns
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    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.
    PC NA
    @lexxypwns
    Xbox NA
    GT: Champion Points
    GT: Crown Crates

    Mageblade main
  • Solariken
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Speed pots need a nerf IMO... 100% uptime on Major Expedition at zero resource cost is ridiculous.
  • BANK_IT_HERE
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Yeah, but it's tough. I run a Dark Elf, and like my magicka/health/immovability pots for fights.
  • del9
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    Stam dominates objectives* in BGs. But now that the age of DM spam has dawned, we are seeing group composition shift to more mag specs represented.

    Mag is more effective at playing 3 team PVP, by which I mean positioning yourself to the outside, only engaging strategically and picking up kills at range (while the stam heavy squads do the heavy lfiting and bash on eachother). Many changes in past 2 patches have contributed to this- the advent of Caluurions, Sload, zaan stands out. Add in 2pc bonus to staves to add mag offense, and balance changes like Rune Cage buff, top it off with a guarantee of Deathmatch (less need for mobility) - we will see more mag-heavy group compositions in beegees
    PCNA

  • Thogard
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    del9 wrote: »
    Stam dominates objectives* in BGs. But now that the age of DM spam has dawned, we are seeing group composition shift to more mag specs represented.

    Mag is more effective at playing 3 team PVP, by which I mean positioning yourself to the outside, only engaging strategically and picking up kills at range (while the stam heavy squads do the heavy lfiting and bash on eachother). Many changes in past 2 patches have contributed to this- the advent of Caluurions, Sload, zaan stands out. Add in 2pc bonus to staves to add mag offense, and balance changes like Rune Cage buff, top it off with a guarantee of Deathmatch (less need for mobility) - we will see more mag-heavy group compositions in beegees

    My thoughts exactly.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Lexxypwns
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    Solariken wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Speed pots need a nerf IMO... 100% uptime on Major Expedition at zero resource cost is ridiculous.

    It’s not 0 resource cost. If you compare it to a tri-pot you lose 200+ “regen” of each stat. ~200 is the base return not even considering the regen modifier. You also lose access to spell/weapon crit as a potion effect.

    There’s an opportunity cost, but in situations where you need the mobility(kiting, BGs) then they’re definitely king. However, just because you have them doesn’t mean you always have to use them, if a tri-pot or detect pot or immovable pot is more valuable in a specific scenario you can always just use one of them instead
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Yeah, but it's tough. I run a Dark Elf, and like my magicka/health/immovability pots for fights.

    I mean, I get all your build decisions, I understand why you prefer immovable pots I understand why you don’t slot chains. I really, really, do.

    However, with all due respect, do you think that choosing to take advantage of 0 of the mobility options available to you and then complaining about mobility of others is a reasonable place to start a discussion? Are you aware that most stam builds run speed pots?
    Edited by Lexxypwns on May 25, 2018 9:54PM
    PC NA
    @lexxypwns
    Xbox NA
    GT: Champion Points
    GT: Crown Crates

    Mageblade main
  • Thogard
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Speed pots need a nerf IMO... 100% uptime on Major Expedition at zero resource cost is ridiculous.

    It’s not 0 resource cost. If you compare it to a tri-pot you lose 200+ “regen” of each stat. ~200 is the base return not even considering the regen modifier. You also lose access to spell/weapon crit as a potion effect.

    There’s an opportunity cost, but in situations where you need the mobility(kiting, BGs) then they’re definitely king. However, just because you have them doesn’t mean you always have to use them, if a tri-pot or detect pot or immovable pot is more valuable in a specific scenario you can always just use one of them instead
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Yeah, but it's tough. I run a Dark Elf, and like my magicka/health/immovability pots for fights.

    I mean, I get all your build decisions, I understand why you prefer immovable pots I understand why you don’t slot chains. I really, really, do.

    However, with all due respect, do you think that choosing to take advantage of 0 of the mobility options available to you and then complaining about mobility of others is a reasonable place to start a discussion? Are you aware that most stam builds run speed pots?

    Well put.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / El Thogardo

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • BANK_IT_HERE
    BANK_IT_HERE
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Speed pots need a nerf IMO... 100% uptime on Major Expedition at zero resource cost is ridiculous.

    It’s not 0 resource cost. If you compare it to a tri-pot you lose 200+ “regen” of each stat. ~200 is the base return not even considering the regen modifier. You also lose access to spell/weapon crit as a potion effect.

    There’s an opportunity cost, but in situations where you need the mobility(kiting, BGs) then they’re definitely king. However, just because you have them doesn’t mean you always have to use them, if a tri-pot or detect pot or immovable pot is more valuable in a specific scenario you can always just use one of them instead
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Yeah, but it's tough. I run a Dark Elf, and like my magicka/health/immovability pots for fights.

    I mean, I get all your build decisions, I understand why you prefer immovable pots I understand why you don’t slot chains. I really, really, do.

    However, with all due respect, do you think that choosing to take advantage of 0 of the mobility options available to you and then complaining about mobility of others is a reasonable place to start a discussion? Are you aware that most stam builds run speed pots?

    Yes, I am aware stam runs speed pots. I choose immovability for general play because MagDKs, by design, are immobile and stuck in the middle of the fight. Stam are also melee, but much more mobile, especially when they run medium armor. I also feel the need for the magicka and health. I could do without the immovable in many cases, but there are no magicka/health/speed pots. So, it's just an add-on. The stam issue is a general issue that affects all magicka builds in some way, except perhaps sorcs if they have streak and/or boundless storm and nightblades if they run double take. I could run speed pots to get from point A to point B, but then I wouldn't have what I want when a fight happens in between. Just my choice. I do fine, and I'm not complaining, but I am just noting when I play my MagDK like they seem to be designed to be played, or mag in general, there is a serious shortage of stam on many game modes.
  • Lexxypwns
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    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Solariken wrote: »
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Speed pots need a nerf IMO... 100% uptime on Major Expedition at zero resource cost is ridiculous.

    It’s not 0 resource cost. If you compare it to a tri-pot you lose 200+ “regen” of each stat. ~200 is the base return not even considering the regen modifier. You also lose access to spell/weapon crit as a potion effect.

    There’s an opportunity cost, but in situations where you need the mobility(kiting, BGs) then they’re definitely king. However, just because you have them doesn’t mean you always have to use them, if a tri-pot or detect pot or immovable pot is more valuable in a specific scenario you can always just use one of them instead
    Lexxypwns wrote: »
    Also, speed pots are a must in BGs if you lack mobility.

    Yeah, but it's tough. I run a Dark Elf, and like my magicka/health/immovability pots for fights.

    I mean, I get all your build decisions, I understand why you prefer immovable pots I understand why you don’t slot chains. I really, really, do.

    However, with all due respect, do you think that choosing to take advantage of 0 of the mobility options available to you and then complaining about mobility of others is a reasonable place to start a discussion? Are you aware that most stam builds run speed pots?

    Yes, I am aware stam runs speed pots. I choose immovability for general play because MagDKs, by design, are immobile and stuck in the middle of the fight. Stam are also melee, but much more mobile, especially when they run medium armor. I also feel the need for the magicka and health. I could do without the immovable in many cases, but there are no magicka/health/speed pots. So, it's just an add-on. The stam issue is a general issue that affects all magicka builds in some way, except perhaps sorcs if they have streak and/or boundless storm and nightblades if they run double take. I could run speed pots to get from point A to point B, but then I wouldn't have what I want when a fight happens in between. Just my choice. I do fine, and I'm not complaining, but I am just noting when I play my MagDK like they seem to be designed to be played, or mag in general, there is a serious shortage of stam on many game modes.

    I agree, magDK is one of the worst BG classes unless the player is playing it at a very high level. I did the BG achievement grind on mine during Dragon Bones and like you I didn’t run chains and preferred potions that didn’t offer speed(Spell damage/crit).

    I think that considering they’re the meta for most builds in BGs it’s not unbalanced against a specific class but rather again the other potion options which can leave you lacking mobility in crucial moments
    PC NA
    @lexxypwns
    Xbox NA
    GT: Champion Points
    GT: Crown Crates

    Mageblade main
  • ShadowMonarch
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    Its not as much stam dominates BG's as it dominates No-CP.
  • Edziu
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    ecru wrote: »
    Any movement speed buffs working while holding onto objectives is bad design IMO. Speed while carrying an objective should be the same across the board regardless of what your build is or gear set or whatever.

    This is especially bad when movement speed can differ so much from one player to the next and the run between objectives are extremely short.

    ZOS needs to poach a pvp dev from WoW or something to get these things sorted because they're getting so many extremely basic things wrong when it comes to balance in instanced pvp. Other games solved these problems years ago.

    but I have then question to you..wouldnt it just force everyone to be tankly and begin again tank meta but on bg's?

    maybe Imyself playing stamnb in medium with access to high speed but also often I see also mag classes like jsut magsorc with speedbufs catching relics and if you catch on of those builds (fast glass cannon) they have mostly no chance if you catch them and they will still try to escape instead of fight....but omw you have alco off skills like cloak or streak whiel carring relic so on of youre basic skill jsut to survive are also off

    this what you said would just crate 100% tank meta for evey bg which will be again very stupid, boring and annyoing to fight with it

    simple deatchmatches I suppose will be long for full match time and no any team will achieve even half of possible points to get becuse everyone will be in takly builds to survive as much as just can
    Pro Xp Waster Jaszcz - Khajiit stamina NB, DC EU PC 40AR -main char(no meta cancer build except monster set but its changing situationally)
    Lubisz to Suko - radiantspam repentanting T-bagging Cancerplar (obsolete, retired)
    Bury Zenek - master race Dunmer (tonk), argonian slaver (obselote, retired)
    Communism wörks - stamplar for fun after got sick of NB's meta(Blackrose Executioner)
    Rune Scimi - stamdk
    1.2k+CP on PC EU [] 28000+ Achievement points [] 2900+ Lorebuks doesnt care anymore about this as stopped play main char (pissed off gathering same achievs again and again...)
    370CP on PC NA
    DD should gather red circles as many as can
  • SupremeRissole
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    No stam burst can combat a team of magplars.
    Stam have mobility, burst, dawnbreakers and bleed.
    Mag have range, resto ults, breath of life, purge, shields, aoe, ranged execute, ice comet.
    I play both stam and mag and I have a much easier time in an all mag group than in an all stam group.
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