Why do we have trials that exclude Stam?

Azyle1

Like AS and now Cloud rest, No one wants to take Stam. Or at least more like maybe 1 or 2.

Is that not bad game design?

Tsukiino

It's called Elder Staves Online for a reason

Gilvoth

stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka builds.
it has been that way for a long time.

JinMori

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka builds.
it has been that way for a long time.

damage output? that's not it, just surivivability.

Gilliamtherogue

JinMori wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka builds.
it has been that way for a long time.

damage output? that's not it, just surivivability.

No, it's also damage output on high mobility fights. A huge amount of your DPS as Stamina comes from stationary abilities with incredibly high costs; Trap Beast, Endless Hail, and Caltrops. Not to mention sprinting on Stamina causes you to lose precious resources for your damage, so if there's mobility or high dodge roll counts, you're punished even more.

Stamina doesn't go into vCR mainly because their damage is pitiful comparatively to Magicka in there because too much movement and lack of ranged DPS options. Bow can't be used because as soon as you take off Blade Cloak in vAS or vCR you eat dirt.

Tasear

Because we need trial group finder?

Gilvoth

Stamina does not stack as high as magicka does, Stamina skills stack 40 stamina to 1 Weapon Damage percentage, apposed to Magicka skills stacking at a 10.5 magicka to 1 Spell Damage percentage.
2300 stamina is equal to 57.5 weapon damage and Warrior offers up almost 3X that at 213 weapon damage in full divines ofcourse.

The Warrior:
Increases Weapon Damage by 166
so it makes about 213 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits

there are other ways to increase magicka and stamina weapon damage as well as passives from armors and weapons that add damage as well, but to claim magicka has an equal amount to stamina stacking in damage simply is not true, magicka allways (well, in most cases unless built indirectly apposed to the other one) out weighs the damage of stamina.
so to claim that damage is not the issue is false.
my earlier comment stands.

Azyle1

Again. If it's not balanced for everything (Stam and Mag) then it's bad design.

Doctordarkspawn

Honestly, the design just excludes stamina at multiple points. I'd advise basicly everyone against running any stamina builds until Stamina gets some survivability to compensate.

pod88kk

Tasear wrote: »

Because we need trial group finder?

Enslaved

You have hordes of magicka users that are either in L2P or very bad category and they QQ 24/7/365/4. So zenimax grants them the wish and make stamina weak for trials.

krachall

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka builds.
it has been that way for a long time.

Yet they felt the need to remove the only disadvantage range had and make staves count as two items.

Vahrokh

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka builds.
it has been that way for a long time.

You put all eggs in one basket.

You should specify: "stamina just doesnt have the survivability and damage output as strong as magicka nightblades".

Actually, nobody can even remotely compare to Summerset magblades, playing anything else in Summerset is a waste.

VaranisArano

Because we have trials groups that exclude stam, plain and simple.

If you only ever want to run with the most optimal builds ever, you are always going to exclude certain builds that are somehow slightly less than optimal, even if those builds could complete the content.

LeHarrt91

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Stamina does not stack as high as magicka does, Stamina skills stack on a 40 stamina to 1 Weapon Damage percentage, apposed to Magicka skills stacking at a 10.5 magicka to 1 Spell Damage percentage.
2300 stamina is equal to 57.5 weapon damage and Warrior offers up almost 3X that at 213 weapon damage in full divines ofcourse.

The Warrior
Increases Weapon Damage by 166
213 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits


so to claim that damage is not the issue is false.

my earlier comment stands.

Btw, Mundus stones were buffed, the warrior gives 238 and 363 full divines.

Gilvoth

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Stamina does not stack as high as magicka does, Stamina skills stack on a 40 stamina to 1 Weapon Damage percentage, apposed to Magicka skills stacking at a 10.5 magicka to 1 Spell Damage percentage.
2300 stamina is equal to 57.5 weapon damage and Warrior offers up almost 3X that at 213 weapon damage in full divines ofcourse.

The Warrior
Increases Weapon Damage by 166
213 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits


so to claim that damage is not the issue is false.

my earlier comment stands.

Btw, Mundus stones were buffed, the warrior gives 238 and 363 full divines.

good call, sorry about that.

ezeepeezee

I'm legitimately not playing end-game anymore because of this. I've left my trial guilds. I only play stamina so I guess I'm stuck playing PVP where I'm (according to the forums but not actually) overpowered.

Edit: Just in case anybody of any import reads this: this means that, yes, I am done putting money into this game.

LittlePinkDot

Eeeew magicka builds.. Their sustain is terrible.
Ive enjoyed my stamina characters 100% more than my magsorc. Spellsword or nothing, I hate staves. I would rather just not do vet trials at all than put myself through the boring hell that is magicka.

Gorrest

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Stamina does not stack as high as magicka does, Stamina skills stack 40 stamina to 1 Weapon Damage percentage, apposed to Magicka skills stacking at a 10.5 magicka to 1 Spell Damage percentage.
2300 stamina is equal to 57.5 weapon damage and Warrior offers up almost 3X that at 213 weapon damage in full divines ofcourse.

The Warrior:
Increases Weapon Damage by 166
so it makes about 213 with 7 Legendary Divine Traits

there are other ways to increase magicka and stamina weapon damage as well as passives from armors and weapons that add damage as well, but to claim magicka has an equal amount to stamina stacking in damage simply is not true, magicka allways (well, in most cases unless built indirectly apposed to the other one) out weighs the damage of stamina.
so to claim that damage is not the issue is false.
my earlier comment stands.

What are you going on about. Lol. That is the farthest from the truth.

Surprise Attack: Its Weapon Damage Coefficient is 1.08150 while its Stamina Damage Coefficient is 0.10312

1.08150/0.10312=10.4877
That means 10.4877 Stamina is equal to 1 Weapon Damage

Now lets us take a look at the magicka verison Concealed Weapon.
Spell Damage Coefficient: 1.08160
Magicka Damage Coefficient: 0.10306
1.08160/0.10306=10.4948
That means 10.4948 magicka is equal to 1 Spell Damage

What about Volley?
Weapon Damage Coefficient: 0.16209
Stamina Damage Coefficient: 0.01527
0.16209/0.01527=10.6149
That means 10.6149 stamina is equal to 1 weapon damage.

What you are getting confused on is Heavy/Light Attacks. Both Magicka and Stamina when dealing with Light/Heavy attacks scale with around 40 Max Stat=1 Damage Stat. The reason why you see the increase of better damage with Warrior is that Stamina heavily relies on its Heavy Attack do most of its damage compared to Magicka which usually doesnt use heavies as damage and instead uses it to gain sustain.

Nyladreas

What? I've never heard of this problem. Ditch your guild and find a better one lol.

LeHarrt91

Nyladreas wrote: »

What? I've never heard of this problem. Ditch your guild and find a better one lol.

Its probably not the guilds but how mobile the trial fights are. As with Asylum Sanctorium there is a lot of moving required, and I believe the same is with Cloudrest. And unfortunately Stam excels in melee range, so they have to run from here to there and in doing so lose DPS.

ak_pvp

And everyone forgets Magplar and MagDK. Guess we still relagated from some content even if our dps is up.

Avalon

I'm far from even close to an expert lol... but, I'm thinking in the simplest way here... but, since it's stamina that fuels dodging, running, blocking, and not magicka (unless taking Frost staff), then wouldn't that give stamina a negative right off the bat? Magicka builds can do all of that and still have their main resource for doing damage. Just my basic outlook on it...

MLGProPlayer

Tsukiino wrote: »

It's called Elder Staves Online for a reason

Unless you're a warden. Doesn't matter what weapon you use, you can just GTFO.

Gilvoth

Avalon wrote: »

I'm far from even close to an expert lol... but, I'm thinking in the simplest way here... but, since it's stamina that fuels dodging, running, blocking, and not magicka (unless taking Frost staff), then wouldn't that give stamina a negative right off the bat? Magicka builds can do all of that and still have their main resource for doing damage. Just my basic outlook on it...

you are correct in more ways then you mentioned.

DanteYoda

You guys should see the lowb areas guys its 99% magic users and nothing else, the odd nightblade killing npcs in the city.. its insane...


On a plus most of the bot trains seem to be templars.. no idea why.

Yzalirk

Staves are for soy boys.

LeHarrt91

DanteYoda wrote: »

You guys should see the lowb areas guys its 99% magic users and nothing else, the odd nightblade killing npcs in the city.. its insane...


On a plus most of the bot trains seem to be templars.. no idea why.

At low level you havent levelled weapon skills enough. basically all early and unmorphed skills are magicka.

Seri

Avalon wrote: »

I'm far from even close to an expert lol... but, I'm thinking in the simplest way here... but, since it's stamina that fuels dodging, running, blocking, and not magicka (unless taking Frost staff), then wouldn't that give stamina a negative right off the bat? Magicka builds can do all of that and still have their main resource for doing damage. Just my basic outlook on it...

Alternate viewpoint - how many roll-dodges or blocks can you get off as a magicka build before the pool is empty? And then how many heavy attacks can you do to restore the stamina pool? Which magicka build passives reduce roll costs and increase sprint speed (so you don't need to sprint as long) and stamina regen? IMO it's not quite that straight forward.

Dagoth_Rac

DanteYoda wrote: »

On a plus most of the bot trains seem to be templars.. no idea why.

Puncturing Strikes skill is available at Level 1. Does very good single target and AoE damage without requiring you to target the enemy. Makes it easy for a mindless bot to kill trash along it's farming path.

Avalon

Seri wrote: »

Avalon wrote: »

I'm far from even close to an expert lol... but, I'm thinking in the simplest way here... but, since it's stamina that fuels dodging, running, blocking, and not magicka (unless taking Frost staff), then wouldn't that give stamina a negative right off the bat? Magicka builds can do all of that and still have their main resource for doing damage. Just my basic outlook on it...

Alternate viewpoint - how many roll-dodges or blocks can you get off as a magicka build before the pool is empty? And then how many heavy attacks can you do to restore the stamina pool? Which magicka build passives reduce roll costs and increase sprint speed (so you don't need to sprint as long) and stamina regen? IMO it's not quite that straight forward.

I can't think of any of my 9 characters that ever runs out of stamina during fights, except my stamina characters. My magicka ones never run out unless I am sprinting out of combat. Weirdly enough, my hybrid warden never runs out of stamina either... only magicka lol (and his abilities are about as 50/50 as I could make them). I will let you know once he gets older and swaps over to pure stamina, whether he starts running out of stamina.