Nightblade tanks, are they a thing or dead?

Joxer61

Asardes wrote: »

Nightblades give virtually no group utility as tanks, and would indeed have to sacrifice more than they would otherwise, by using selfish setups in order to sustain.

That is just what Deathknights were in WOW, and we were not liked by most as we were deemed "selfish". Blizz came along and fixed a few things but then tanking in WOW doesn't (didn't) offer up much in support from any class, its mostly meat shield kinda stuff.

Asardes

Joxer61 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Nightblades give virtually no group utility as tanks, and would indeed have to sacrifice more than they would otherwise, by using selfish setups in order to sustain.

That is just what Deathknights were in WOW, and we were not liked by most as we were deemed "selfish". Blizz came along and fixed a few things but then tanking in WOW doesn't (didn't) offer up much in support from any class, its mostly meat shield kinda stuff.

I don't try to compare ESO to other MMO games since I haven't played them, but I learned everything from scratch. Comparing with other games can have very bad consequences for new players in terms of gear and build choices. For example some player who had started just a couple of weeks before tried to convince me he can cheese trough vMA on a high health recovery build with basically no damage since he had done that in another game in some content that looked similar to him. Still I don't understand why some many new players want to start with a Templar tank in ESO, though the class is even worse than NB in that department; I haven't found even one reason to do a tank setup for mine. Maybe the (perceived) similarity of ESO with other games? Also I don't know how ESO compares to other games in terms of difficulty, though it will be pretty hard to asses that, since ESO itself has a very large disparity in difficulty, and steep increase from overland content & delves to normal dungeons to veteran dungeons to veteran DLC dungeons & Craglorn veteran trials to DLC veteran trials.

Joxer61

Asardes wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Nightblades give virtually no group utility as tanks, and would indeed have to sacrifice more than they would otherwise, by using selfish setups in order to sustain.

That is just what Deathknights were in WOW, and we were not liked by most as we were deemed "selfish". Blizz came along and fixed a few things but then tanking in WOW doesn't (didn't) offer up much in support from any class, its mostly meat shield kinda stuff.

I don't try to compare ESO to other MMO games since I haven't played them, but I learned everything from scratch. Comparing with other games can have very bad consequences for new players in terms of gear and build choices. For example some player who had started just a couple of weeks before tried to convince me he can cheese trough vMA on a high health recovery build with basically no damage since he had done that in another game in some content that looked similar to him. Still I don't understand why some many new players want to start with a Templar tank in ESO, though the class is even worse than NB in that department; I haven't found even one reason to do a tank setup for mine. Maybe the (perceived) similarity of ESO with other games? Also I don't know how ESO compares to other games in terms of difficulty, though it will be pretty hard to asses that, since ESO itself has a very large disparity in difficulty, and steep increase from overland content & delves to normal dungeons to veteran dungeons to veteran DLC dungeons & Craglorn veteran trials to DLC veteran trials.

Yea, I learned that lesson trying to apply my tanking "skills" when I started raiding in GW2, not a good outcome. Games are different for a reason. Basics such as turn the boss/mob away from group and keep aggro are universal but I think it stops there. Having just come from GW2 back to ESO I can say the combat and difficulty are miles apart with the nod to ESO for being more diverse and challenging. That is part of my struggle coming back, I have to actually work at it!!

RavenSworn

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

Nevasca

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

Just so you know, Bahraha's Curse will provide more healing than Nocturnals due to higher uptime. Plus it can hit multiple targets and "sap tank" for you in trash fights. Nocturnals is just a bad set overall sadly, it should provide something else.

EDIT: Not to mention it doesn't have that ugly stamina recovery piece.

Joxer61

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

So, what should one spec into....health, stam or mag. I have now seen builds that do a mix of all three or full stam, but yet to see full mag. Just curious as to where to go at this stage.

Asardes

Joxer61 wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

So, what should one spec into....health, stam or mag. I have now seen builds that do a mix of all three or full stam, but yet to see full mag. Just curious as to where to go at this stage.

Normally as tank you try to maximize health, and have around 18-20K stamina and magicka pools, with stamina slightly higher than magicka so it gets restored when you activate orbs or shards (they restore the highest pool). You can accomplish this by juggling with attributes, mundus, gear bonuses, armor enchants and consumables. Ideally you should go with most attribute points into health, Lord mundus (or Atronach if your build makes high use of magicka skill), use prismatic enchants on your armor with infused trait on full pieces (chest, head, legs, shield) and sturdy on the small ones (waist, feet, hands, shoulder) - those only have 40% enchant value so infused doesn't make much sense. You should also use tri-stat food because overall it boosts your resource pools the most. Ideally you should aim for 40K+ health, since that will allow you to do most content in the game, and survive the occasional mistake here and there. Anything past 45K has diminishing returns even for very hard content like DLC veteran trials.

Joxer61

Guess what I meant to ask, and I reckon this is a tough one, is should I go forward with a NB tank....leeching or siphoning? Seems a tough call really. Magicka or Stam.....decisions...arrgghh....lol!

exiars10

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

Just so you know, Bahraha's Curse will provide more healing than Nocturnals due to higher uptime. Plus it can hit multiple targets and "sap tank" for you in trash fights. Nocturnals is just a bad set overall sadly, it should provide something else.

EDIT: Not to mention it doesn't have that ugly stamina recovery piece.

I plan next week to create my NB tank finally (waiting Summerset to hit) - what is better for self heals:
Bahraha's Curse or Leeching Plate? Or even both .

My NB is stamina one (as is pure stamina DD) so I guess Leeching Plate.

Asardes

Leeching Strikes is good for stamina sustain if you are a DD constantly weaving light and heavy attacks, preferably the former, since the cool down is shorter. Less so if you are a tank since you can't really stay open and just weave light attacks, and because, being in heavy armor, heavy attacks already restore a good chunk of stamina from Revitalize passive, especially if you also have CP in Tenacity. As tank is much better strategically opening up for a heavy attack from time to time. Leeching Strikes will only be 106 stamina on top of the 3-4K you get from a heavy attack so won't change much. On top of that the skill now costs stamina, so it has to be up for a few seconds just to refund its cost, so it may actually make your sustain worse, if cast at the wrong time. The heal you get is also negligible, since any other skill can tick for 1.5K heal per second and is much higher than the burst damage you are taking as tank.

The skill was fundamentally changed in Morrowind. Before that it used to be guaranteed stamina and magicka return for light and heavy attack and a chance for other skills, and the return was about 1K resource; now it's 1/10 of that. People could basically hold block and spam Sap Essence and if they had enough enemies they would stay at full resources and full health just from that, hence the "sap tank" moniker. If you specced for high magicka recovery and/or cost reduction you had infinite sustain, and, looking in hindsight, it ought to have been nerfed.

actosh

Hey @Joxer61 ,

after being summoned by @aeowulf i try my best to tell you how i handle things as a Nightblade Tank (since 2.5years now).

To open this up, let me tell you that i do hm daylies/hm vtrials. Due to our daugther been born a year ago i hadnt had time to stick with the Raidgroup i had played for several due to a lack of time. Have Tanked on a DK for quite a while, but nb was my first char and the one i love the most (like the concept), but dk tanking became boring and while warden is a good tank, i didnt wanted to play one because i felt that all those flowers and purple color would lead to a sex change (hahahahaha, girls class, visual wise).

What i did on my NB as a Maintank was: AA HM, Hel Ra HM, Vmol (no time for hm, but tried it, was okay), Sanctum Ophidia HM, Vhof HM and asylum on Vet and +1.

Right now i´ve been again part of a raidgroup that is average, but still there with my NB Tank and spend the last time to raid mostly in Vhof ^^.

I try to dive in a bit and i´m sorry for the Wall of text that may be incoming.

Class Comparsion

DK and Warden are hands down better in terms of group support, no need to discuss that.
Dk got Engulfing Flames (targets take 8% more dmg from all fire sources) and Warden got the Frost Cloak (Major Ward/Resolve for 5 allies and yourself).
Engulfing debuff will either be removed or is just working alone for the caster, if zos keeps tweaking balancing that way, just my prediction. Can be wrong ^^.

These are the things that make them stand out! The easymode sustain is just a added Bonus so i never understood why ppl need to be an argonian dk/warden (scrap that 10% more healing if combined).

Crowd Control(especialy roots/slows), while sometimes helpfull, was never a real problem beside the fact we have no chains/frozen gate (pull skill). That lack could be somewhat compensated with LOS breaking, and swarm mother (did vmsa on my nb tank in raidsetup and 35k was easy with breaks).

Selfhealing is pretty good on a dk(1 button press Coagolating blood), and okayish on a warden(2 buttons arctic winds *meh* or the vines). On a Nightblade you likely have funnel health, refreshing path, and siphoning (learn to weave heal is ok).


Sets

If u go for trials, go full meta or go home! If u need to start wearing selfish noobsets, trials are the wrong place for you, even in no progression groups that just want a completion.

Typical Alkosh/Ebon/bloodspawn-Warden or alkosh/torugs/bloodspawn-warden.

Even as a NB u dont need selfish sets to carry you or to help with stustain.


At the moment my build looks like this for trials

Pierce Armor - Heroic Slash - Dark Cloak** - Refreshing Path - Leeching Strikes
Inner Rage - Drain Essence - Balance - Efficent Purge - Double Take

Short description of skills

Pierce Armor - Taunt and debuff
Heroic Slash - Ultgen and Minor Maim (use every 9 sec for ultgen)
Dark Cloak - Well, with 1 Tamriel i think it became usefull in some trials. Why? It makes the next direct attack at you miss for 100%. Wont work on channels or aoe. Vas Last boss for example u can make his hard hitter miss. Vhof second boss the same with the direct boss attacks or the steam guy when he loads up a heavy at you. Works on Boss 4 in vhof as well. Need to create a list ^^.
Refreshing Path - Healing over time, procs shadow ward passive giving us major resolve and ward. Does offhealing and is the reason why sentinel or bogdan are funny monsterhelm choices in certain fights.
Leeching Strikes - At the moment i have it slotted cause i light weave whenever there is time for the heal, and for the 111 Stam (wich is pathetic, but why not) ^^. That skill will likely be dropped with Summerset.

Inner Rage - Rangetaunt
Drain Essence - Enchants, taunts, buffs/debuffs are running and boss is doin stupid things, well...let me get 15Ult real fast in 3 seconds. Once you get familiar with boss behavior and rotations you know when to use it without a risk (wont work in aa^^)

Balance - Need Magicka, press it. Besides that, provides after use 24 secs of major ward/resolve. Drop it maybe in Summerset for meditate or use the slot otherwise.

Purge - Flexspot, in situations where purgei s needed, its slotted. If not needed slot something else ^^

Double Take - The other morph provides minor resolve/ward but in most fights u get it from combat prayer and when not getting it u wont die because of it. Double take gives 4 secs of major expedition, nice for quick position changes.

Ults are Warhorn frontbar, Veil Backbar. Will be changed for Summerset.

How to fight?

Well, just like on any other tank, taunt, debuff, buff yourself and have fun. Learn to light attack weave in between blocks for a bit of healing with siphoning and for small sustain increase. In dire need of stamina? Rercast leeching, based on how long it has been running get ressources back calculatet from the return you would get at the end.
Better to do a heavy attack, no need to permblock in about 90% of the fights. Thats the most important thing you need to learn. Can do some training together if u like to.

I have changed around 3 months ago, all my block cost reduction enchants from jewelry to potion cooldown (im imperial, lizards are ugly as *** and i wont play one for that ressourcereturn that is going to be nerfed soon).
Now my potions are up every 30 secs, and with a few heavys from time to time sustain is a breeze. No sustainsets needed.
I just cry for shards orbs when Alkosh runs out. With summerset we stick with the same sets for raids as it seems, but for dungeons there are some totaly sick combos.
For sumemrset it gets better. with infused jewelry coolddown will be 20secs. Catalyst passive provides 20ult on potion use, so you basicly get the 1 ult/sec that adds up a lot. its like having werewolfhideset equiped, without wearing it ^^.

What i tested on pts and what was a lot of fun with good dd in group that can properly weave

5x Aegis of galanwe (la buff set that cant proc on yourself) + 5 Warmachine + 2 Bloodspawn.
Had around 60% uptime on slayer but it could get better. The dps was so nice and it outperformed horn in a dungeon hm.
Will use this in vdsa after summerset (luckily allready have war machine wepons/shield, go get em).

So, now its time to move on to Summerset.

What will change for us NB Tanks?
Silver Leash(Fighters Guild) - Pulls now! Was about time, stam cost shouldn worry anyone, good to manage, bye swarm mother^^

Dark Shade change - Well, i would only slot it IF they do the aoe every 4 seconds, otherwise thorvokum (monster set is better).

Dark Cloak Change - Exciting! Was performing really well and with chains one of the top things i have asked over a year for. Like that its a hot. Know big dmg is coming, press it right before and the dmg taken will be a joke most of the time ^^.

Bolstering change - well buff for pvp group players, wont see much use in pve anymore(rarely has, cause warhorn!).

Funnel Cost increase - rarely used it, nothing changes for me here.

Path healing reduced - meh.......still enough offhealing in certain encounters, might keep it on my bar. Best skill to proc sentinel/bogdan if u want to use it.

Psijic Skill line - well there are 3 nice things in it, we have the oh *** ressource return thing (will be used rarely, as sustain isnt a issue) we have the rootnegatething, wich is nice, in certain encounters and will find a place on my bar, probably flex spot ^^.

Ultimate - the one morph that gives minor protection. Not sure, because with all the mitigation, those 8% wont add up that much more. Can be frontbared for more safe approach, warhorn backbar.


Havent finalized my build for Summerset, but please dont do alcasts nocturnal/tavas thingy, there are better setups available and u dont need a set that heals you. No hate here against alcast, but that setup is almost as good as my ranged stamina bow/bow build with imbue weapons *laugh* will be posted soon, but is just for fun i mayx call it fake mag player.

If u have further questions or if i missed something just ask it here or pm me.
Can also join on discord/Teamspeak whatever.

Another fun fact, i was allowed to tank in our progression group as a NB Tank. If it would be a hardcore progression group(groups that change classes and raidsetup according to whats best to get highest scores) i would go dk for engulfing reasons, but if u just go for completion (achievements, clears ect) and your group is just going for progress there is no reason to tank on the class you want.

Do you play on eu server? Need another Tank ^^.

Hope it helped a bit and like i said, summon me for more information or expirience.

oh forgot stats, as imperial i have right now 40k health, 17k mag, 21k stam.

Bye

Nevasca

exiars10 wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

Just so you know, Bahraha's Curse will provide more healing than Nocturnals due to higher uptime. Plus it can hit multiple targets and "sap tank" for you in trash fights. Nocturnals is just a bad set overall sadly, it should provide something else.

EDIT: Not to mention it doesn't have that ugly stamina recovery piece.

I plan next week to create my NB tank finally (waiting Summerset to hit) - what is better for self heals:
Bahraha's Curse or Leeching Plate? Or even both .

My NB is stamina one (as is pure stamina DD) so I guess Leeching Plate.

I'd still take Bahrahas. The uptime is much better. The 2-4pcs are better also, and bahrahas you can buy everything instead of farming. Downside is no talking shield from leeching .

Difference is not thaaaat huge... you can get away with either Nocturnal or Leeching if you want to use those.

Asardes

Very good overview, though I might add that in Summerset magicka DK will be in a much better spot for top DPS, and thus the tank won't really need to run Engulfing Flames himself. In that case other classes, such as NB, would be at less of a disadvantage compared to DK than now.

Joxer61

actosh wrote: »

Hey @Joxer61 ,

after being summoned by @aeowulf i try my best to tell you how i handle things as a Nightblade Tank (since 2.5years now).

To open this up, let me tell you that i do hm daylies/hm vtrials. Due to our daugther been born a year ago i hadnt had time to stick with the Raidgroup i had played for several due to a lack of time. Have Tanked on a DK for quite a while, but nb was my first char and the one i love the most (like the concept), but dk tanking became boring and while warden is a good tank, i didnt wanted to play one because i felt that all those flowers and purple color would lead to a sex change (hahahahaha, girls class, visual wise).

What i did on my NB as a Maintank was: AA HM, Hel Ra HM, Vmol (no time for hm, but tried it, was okay), Sanctum Ophidia HM, Vhof HM and asylum on Vet and +1.

Right now i´ve been again part of a raidgroup that is average, but still there with my NB Tank and spend the last time to raid mostly in Vhof ^^.

I try to dive in a bit and i´m sorry for the Wall of text that may be incoming.

Class Comparsion

DK and Warden are hands down better in terms of group support, no need to discuss that.
Dk got Engulfing Flames (targets take 8% more dmg from all fire sources) and Warden got the Frost Cloak (Major Ward/Resolve for 5 allies and yourself).
Engulfing debuff will either be removed or is just working alone for the caster, if zos keeps tweaking balancing that way, just my prediction. Can be wrong ^^.

These are the things that make them stand out! The easymode sustain is just a added Bonus so i never understood why ppl need to be an argonian dk/warden (scrap that 10% more healing if combined).

Crowd Control(especialy roots/slows), while sometimes helpfull, was never a real problem beside the fact we have no chains/frozen gate (pull skill). That lack could be somewhat compensated with LOS breaking, and swarm mother (did vmsa on my nb tank in raidsetup and 35k was easy with breaks).

Selfhealing is pretty good on a dk(1 button press Coagolating blood), and okayish on a warden(2 buttons arctic winds *meh* or the vines). On a Nightblade you likely have funnel health, refreshing path, and siphoning (learn to weave heal is ok).


Sets

If u go for trials, go full meta or go home! If u need to start wearing selfish noobsets, trials are the wrong place for you, even in no progression groups that just want a completion.

Typical Alkosh/Ebon/bloodspawn-Warden or alkosh/torugs/bloodspawn-warden.

Even as a NB u dont need selfish sets to carry you or to help with stustain.


At the moment my build looks like this for trials

Pierce Armor - Heroic Slash - Dark Cloak** - Refreshing Path - Leeching Strikes
Inner Rage - Drain Essence - Balance - Efficent Purge - Double Take

Short description of skills

Pierce Armor - Taunt and debuff
Heroic Slash - Ultgen and Minor Maim (use every 9 sec for ultgen)
Dark Cloak - Well, with 1 Tamriel i think it became usefull in some trials. Why? It makes the next direct attack at you miss for 100%. Wont work on channels or aoe. Vas Last boss for example u can make his hard hitter miss. Vhof second boss the same with the direct boss attacks or the steam guy when he loads up a heavy at you. Works on Boss 4 in vhof as well. Need to create a list ^^.
Refreshing Path - Healing over time, procs shadow ward passive giving us major resolve and ward. Does offhealing and is the reason why sentinel or bogdan are funny monsterhelm choices in certain fights.
Leeching Strikes - At the moment i have it slotted cause i light weave whenever there is time for the heal, and for the 111 Stam (wich is pathetic, but why not) ^^. That skill will likely be dropped with Summerset.

Inner Rage - Rangetaunt
Drain Essence - Enchants, taunts, buffs/debuffs are running and boss is doin stupid things, well...let me get 15Ult real fast in 3 seconds. Once you get familiar with boss behavior and rotations you know when to use it without a risk (wont work in aa^^)

Balance - Need Magicka, press it. Besides that, provides after use 24 secs of major ward/resolve. Drop it maybe in Summerset for meditate or use the slot otherwise.

Purge - Flexspot, in situations where purgei s needed, its slotted. If not needed slot something else ^^

Double Take - The other morph provides minor resolve/ward but in most fights u get it from combat prayer and when not getting it u wont die because of it. Double take gives 4 secs of major expedition, nice for quick position changes.

Ults are Warhorn frontbar, Veil Backbar. Will be changed for Summerset.

How to fight?

Well, just like on any other tank, taunt, debuff, buff yourself and have fun. Learn to light attack weave in between blocks for a bit of healing with siphoning and for small sustain increase. In dire need of stamina? Rercast leeching, based on how long it has been running get ressources back calculatet from the return you would get at the end.
Better to do a heavy attack, no need to permblock in about 90% of the fights. Thats the most important thing you need to learn. Can do some training together if u like to.

I have changed around 3 months ago, all my block cost reduction enchants from jewelry to potion cooldown (im imperial, lizards are ugly as *** and i wont play one for that ressourcereturn that is going to be nerfed soon).
Now my potions are up every 30 secs, and with a few heavys from time to time sustain is a breeze. No sustainsets needed.
I just cry for shards orbs when Alkosh runs out. With summerset we stick with the same sets for raids as it seems, but for dungeons there are some totaly sick combos.
For sumemrset it gets better. with infused jewelry coolddown will be 20secs. Catalyst passive provides 20ult on potion use, so you basicly get the 1 ult/sec that adds up a lot. its like having werewolfhideset equiped, without wearing it ^^.

What i tested on pts and what was a lot of fun with good dd in group that can properly weave

5x Aegis of galanwe (la buff set that cant proc on yourself) + 5 Warmachine + 2 Bloodspawn.
Had around 60% uptime on slayer but it could get better. The dps was so nice and it outperformed horn in a dungeon hm.
Will use this in vdsa after summerset (luckily allready have war machine wepons/shield, go get em).

So, now its time to move on to Summerset.

What will change for us NB Tanks?
Silver Leash(Fighters Guild) - Pulls now! Was about time, stam cost shouldn worry anyone, good to manage, bye swarm mother^^

Dark Shade change - Well, i would only slot it IF they do the aoe every 4 seconds, otherwise thorvokum (monster set is better).

Dark Cloak Change - Exciting! Was performing really well and with chains one of the top things i have asked over a year for. Like that its a hot. Know big dmg is coming, press it right before and the dmg taken will be a joke most of the time ^^.

Bolstering change - well buff for pvp group players, wont see much use in pve anymore(rarely has, cause warhorn!).

Funnel Cost increase - rarely used it, nothing changes for me here.

Path healing reduced - meh.......still enough offhealing in certain encounters, might keep it on my bar. Best skill to proc sentinel/bogdan if u want to use it.

Psijic Skill line - well there are 3 nice things in it, we have the oh *** ressource return thing (will be used rarely, as sustain isnt a issue) we have the rootnegatething, wich is nice, in certain encounters and will find a place on my bar, probably flex spot ^^.

Ultimate - the one morph that gives minor protection. Not sure, because with all the mitigation, those 8% wont add up that much more. Can be frontbared for more safe approach, warhorn backbar.


Havent finalized my build for Summerset, but please dont do alcasts nocturnal/tavas thingy, there are better setups available and u dont need a set that heals you. No hate here against alcast, but that setup is almost as good as my ranged stamina bow/bow build with imbue weapons *laugh* will be posted soon, but is just for fun i mayx call it fake mag player.

If u have further questions or if i missed something just ask it here or pm me.
Can also join on discord/Teamspeak whatever.

Another fun fact, i was allowed to tank in our progression group as a NB Tank. If it would be a hardcore progression group(groups that change classes and raidsetup according to whats best to get highest scores) i would go dk for engulfing reasons, but if u just go for completion (achievements, clears ect) and your group is just going for progress there is no reason to tank on the class you want.

Do you play on eu server? Need another Tank ^^.

Hope it helped a bit and like i said, summon me for more information or expirience.

oh forgot stats, as imperial i have right now 40k health, 17k mag, 21k stam.

Bye

That is awesome awesome info and very much appreciated!!! I am on PC NA sadly but still you info and better yet enthusiasm towards the class is great help! As far as stats go, all health or a mix? That bit always gets me and also...all the set lingo, yeah, totally foreign to this kid since I have been away from the for 3...nah more like 4 years. Guild says formed March 2014 so yea, its been awhile!!
Thanks again!!!

Nevasca

actosh wrote: »

Hey @Joxer61 ,

after being summoned by @aeowulf i try my best to tell you how i handle things as a Nightblade Tank (since 2.5years now).

To open this up, let me tell you that i do hm daylies/hm vtrials. Due to our daugther been born a year ago i hadnt had time to stick with the Raidgroup i had played for several due to a lack of time. Have Tanked on a DK for quite a while, but nb was my first char and the one i love the most (like the concept), but dk tanking became boring and while warden is a good tank, i didnt wanted to play one because i felt that all those flowers and purple color would lead to a sex change (hahahahaha, girls class, visual wise).

What i did on my NB as a Maintank was: AA HM, Hel Ra HM, Vmol (no time for hm, but tried it, was okay), Sanctum Ophidia HM, Vhof HM and asylum on Vet and +1.

Right now i´ve been again part of a raidgroup that is average, but still there with my NB Tank and spend the last time to raid mostly in Vhof ^^.

I try to dive in a bit and i´m sorry for the Wall of text that may be incoming.

Class Comparsion

DK and Warden are hands down better in terms of group support, no need to discuss that.
Dk got Engulfing Flames (targets take 8% more dmg from all fire sources) and Warden got the Frost Cloak (Major Ward/Resolve for 5 allies and yourself).
Engulfing debuff will either be removed or is just working alone for the caster, if zos keeps tweaking balancing that way, just my prediction. Can be wrong ^^.

These are the things that make them stand out! The easymode sustain is just a added Bonus so i never understood why ppl need to be an argonian dk/warden (scrap that 10% more healing if combined).

Crowd Control(especialy roots/slows), while sometimes helpfull, was never a real problem beside the fact we have no chains/frozen gate (pull skill). That lack could be somewhat compensated with LOS breaking, and swarm mother (did vmsa on my nb tank in raidsetup and 35k was easy with breaks).

Selfhealing is pretty good on a dk(1 button press Coagolating blood), and okayish on a warden(2 buttons arctic winds *meh* or the vines). On a Nightblade you likely have funnel health, refreshing path, and siphoning (learn to weave heal is ok).


Sets

If u go for trials, go full meta or go home! If u need to start wearing selfish noobsets, trials are the wrong place for you, even in no progression groups that just want a completion.

Typical Alkosh/Ebon/bloodspawn-Warden or alkosh/torugs/bloodspawn-warden.

Even as a NB u dont need selfish sets to carry you or to help with stustain.


At the moment my build looks like this for trials

Pierce Armor - Heroic Slash - Dark Cloak** - Refreshing Path - Leeching Strikes
Inner Rage - Drain Essence - Balance - Efficent Purge - Double Take

Short description of skills

Pierce Armor - Taunt and debuff
Heroic Slash - Ultgen and Minor Maim (use every 9 sec for ultgen)
Dark Cloak - Well, with 1 Tamriel i think it became usefull in some trials. Why? It makes the next direct attack at you miss for 100%. Wont work on channels or aoe. Vas Last boss for example u can make his hard hitter miss. Vhof second boss the same with the direct boss attacks or the steam guy when he loads up a heavy at you. Works on Boss 4 in vhof as well. Need to create a list ^^.
Refreshing Path - Healing over time, procs shadow ward passive giving us major resolve and ward. Does offhealing and is the reason why sentinel or bogdan are funny monsterhelm choices in certain fights.
Leeching Strikes - At the moment i have it slotted cause i light weave whenever there is time for the heal, and for the 111 Stam (wich is pathetic, but why not) ^^. That skill will likely be dropped with Summerset.

Inner Rage - Rangetaunt
Drain Essence - Enchants, taunts, buffs/debuffs are running and boss is doin stupid things, well...let me get 15Ult real fast in 3 seconds. Once you get familiar with boss behavior and rotations you know when to use it without a risk (wont work in aa^^)

Balance - Need Magicka, press it. Besides that, provides after use 24 secs of major ward/resolve. Drop it maybe in Summerset for meditate or use the slot otherwise.

Purge - Flexspot, in situations where purgei s needed, its slotted. If not needed slot something else ^^

Double Take - The other morph provides minor resolve/ward but in most fights u get it from combat prayer and when not getting it u wont die because of it. Double take gives 4 secs of major expedition, nice for quick position changes.

Ults are Warhorn frontbar, Veil Backbar. Will be changed for Summerset.

How to fight?

Well, just like on any other tank, taunt, debuff, buff yourself and have fun. Learn to light attack weave in between blocks for a bit of healing with siphoning and for small sustain increase. In dire need of stamina? Rercast leeching, based on how long it has been running get ressources back calculatet from the return you would get at the end.
Better to do a heavy attack, no need to permblock in about 90% of the fights. Thats the most important thing you need to learn. Can do some training together if u like to.

I have changed around 3 months ago, all my block cost reduction enchants from jewelry to potion cooldown (im imperial, lizards are ugly as *** and i wont play one for that ressourcereturn that is going to be nerfed soon).
Now my potions are up every 30 secs, and with a few heavys from time to time sustain is a breeze. No sustainsets needed.
I just cry for shards orbs when Alkosh runs out. With summerset we stick with the same sets for raids as it seems, but for dungeons there are some totaly sick combos.
For sumemrset it gets better. with infused jewelry coolddown will be 20secs. Catalyst passive provides 20ult on potion use, so you basicly get the 1 ult/sec that adds up a lot. its like having werewolfhideset equiped, without wearing it ^^.

What i tested on pts and what was a lot of fun with good dd in group that can properly weave

5x Aegis of galanwe (la buff set that cant proc on yourself) + 5 Warmachine + 2 Bloodspawn.
Had around 60% uptime on slayer but it could get better. The dps was so nice and it outperformed horn in a dungeon hm.
Will use this in vdsa after summerset (luckily allready have war machine wepons/shield, go get em).

So, now its time to move on to Summerset.

What will change for us NB Tanks?
Silver Leash(Fighters Guild) - Pulls now! Was about time, stam cost shouldn worry anyone, good to manage, bye swarm mother^^

Dark Shade change - Well, i would only slot it IF they do the aoe every 4 seconds, otherwise thorvokum (monster set is better).

Dark Cloak Change - Exciting! Was performing really well and with chains one of the top things i have asked over a year for. Like that its a hot. Know big dmg is coming, press it right before and the dmg taken will be a joke most of the time ^^.

Bolstering change - well buff for pvp group players, wont see much use in pve anymore(rarely has, cause warhorn!).

Funnel Cost increase - rarely used it, nothing changes for me here.

Path healing reduced - meh.......still enough offhealing in certain encounters, might keep it on my bar. Best skill to proc sentinel/bogdan if u want to use it.

Psijic Skill line - well there are 3 nice things in it, we have the oh *** ressource return thing (will be used rarely, as sustain isnt a issue) we have the rootnegatething, wich is nice, in certain encounters and will find a place on my bar, probably flex spot ^^.

Ultimate - the one morph that gives minor protection. Not sure, because with all the mitigation, those 8% wont add up that much more. Can be frontbared for more safe approach, warhorn backbar.


Havent finalized my build for Summerset, but please dont do alcasts nocturnal/tavas thingy, there are better setups available and u dont need a set that heals you. No hate here against alcast, but that setup is almost as good as my ranged stamina bow/bow build with imbue weapons *laugh* will be posted soon, but is just for fun i mayx call it fake mag player.

If u have further questions or if i missed something just ask it here or pm me.
Can also join on discord/Teamspeak whatever.

Another fun fact, i was allowed to tank in our progression group as a NB Tank. If it would be a hardcore progression group(groups that change classes and raidsetup according to whats best to get highest scores) i would go dk for engulfing reasons, but if u just go for completion (achievements, clears ect) and your group is just going for progress there is no reason to tank on the class you want.

Do you play on eu server? Need another Tank ^^.

Hope it helped a bit and like i said, summon me for more information or expirience.

oh forgot stats, as imperial i have right now 40k health, 17k mag, 21k stam.

Bye

Wow never thought of using Dark Cloak (live) like that! Can you dodge Heavy Attacks with it without killing someone? Or the boss still try to hit you even invisible?

Also I appreciate all the info, as a NB Tank that is finally trying to get into trials. Really helpful!

actosh

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Hey @Joxer61 ,

after being summoned by @aeowulf i try my best to tell you how i handle things as a Nightblade Tank (since 2.5years now).

To open this up, let me tell you that i do hm daylies/hm vtrials. Due to our daugther been born a year ago i hadnt had time to stick with the Raidgroup i had played for several due to a lack of time. Have Tanked on a DK for quite a while, but nb was my first char and the one i love the most (like the concept), but dk tanking became boring and while warden is a good tank, i didnt wanted to play one because i felt that all those flowers and purple color would lead to a sex change (hahahahaha, girls class, visual wise).

What i did on my NB as a Maintank was: AA HM, Hel Ra HM, Vmol (no time for hm, but tried it, was okay), Sanctum Ophidia HM, Vhof HM and asylum on Vet and +1.

Right now i´ve been again part of a raidgroup that is average, but still there with my NB Tank and spend the last time to raid mostly in Vhof ^^.

I try to dive in a bit and i´m sorry for the Wall of text that may be incoming.

Class Comparsion

DK and Warden are hands down better in terms of group support, no need to discuss that.
Dk got Engulfing Flames (targets take 8% more dmg from all fire sources) and Warden got the Frost Cloak (Major Ward/Resolve for 5 allies and yourself).
Engulfing debuff will either be removed or is just working alone for the caster, if zos keeps tweaking balancing that way, just my prediction. Can be wrong ^^.

These are the things that make them stand out! The easymode sustain is just a added Bonus so i never understood why ppl need to be an argonian dk/warden (scrap that 10% more healing if combined).

Crowd Control(especialy roots/slows), while sometimes helpfull, was never a real problem beside the fact we have no chains/frozen gate (pull skill). That lack could be somewhat compensated with LOS breaking, and swarm mother (did vmsa on my nb tank in raidsetup and 35k was easy with breaks).

Selfhealing is pretty good on a dk(1 button press Coagolating blood), and okayish on a warden(2 buttons arctic winds *meh* or the vines). On a Nightblade you likely have funnel health, refreshing path, and siphoning (learn to weave heal is ok).


Sets

If u go for trials, go full meta or go home! If u need to start wearing selfish noobsets, trials are the wrong place for you, even in no progression groups that just want a completion.

Typical Alkosh/Ebon/bloodspawn-Warden or alkosh/torugs/bloodspawn-warden.

Even as a NB u dont need selfish sets to carry you or to help with stustain.


At the moment my build looks like this for trials

Pierce Armor - Heroic Slash - Dark Cloak** - Refreshing Path - Leeching Strikes
Inner Rage - Drain Essence - Balance - Efficent Purge - Double Take

Short description of skills

Pierce Armor - Taunt and debuff
Heroic Slash - Ultgen and Minor Maim (use every 9 sec for ultgen)
Dark Cloak - Well, with 1 Tamriel i think it became usefull in some trials. Why? It makes the next direct attack at you miss for 100%. Wont work on channels or aoe. Vas Last boss for example u can make his hard hitter miss. Vhof second boss the same with the direct boss attacks or the steam guy when he loads up a heavy at you. Works on Boss 4 in vhof as well. Need to create a list ^^.
Refreshing Path - Healing over time, procs shadow ward passive giving us major resolve and ward. Does offhealing and is the reason why sentinel or bogdan are funny monsterhelm choices in certain fights.
Leeching Strikes - At the moment i have it slotted cause i light weave whenever there is time for the heal, and for the 111 Stam (wich is pathetic, but why not) ^^. That skill will likely be dropped with Summerset.

Inner Rage - Rangetaunt
Drain Essence - Enchants, taunts, buffs/debuffs are running and boss is doin stupid things, well...let me get 15Ult real fast in 3 seconds. Once you get familiar with boss behavior and rotations you know when to use it without a risk (wont work in aa^^)

Balance - Need Magicka, press it. Besides that, provides after use 24 secs of major ward/resolve. Drop it maybe in Summerset for meditate or use the slot otherwise.

Purge - Flexspot, in situations where purgei s needed, its slotted. If not needed slot something else ^^

Double Take - The other morph provides minor resolve/ward but in most fights u get it from combat prayer and when not getting it u wont die because of it. Double take gives 4 secs of major expedition, nice for quick position changes.

Ults are Warhorn frontbar, Veil Backbar. Will be changed for Summerset.

How to fight?

Well, just like on any other tank, taunt, debuff, buff yourself and have fun. Learn to light attack weave in between blocks for a bit of healing with siphoning and for small sustain increase. In dire need of stamina? Rercast leeching, based on how long it has been running get ressources back calculatet from the return you would get at the end.
Better to do a heavy attack, no need to permblock in about 90% of the fights. Thats the most important thing you need to learn. Can do some training together if u like to.

I have changed around 3 months ago, all my block cost reduction enchants from jewelry to potion cooldown (im imperial, lizards are ugly as *** and i wont play one for that ressourcereturn that is going to be nerfed soon).
Now my potions are up every 30 secs, and with a few heavys from time to time sustain is a breeze. No sustainsets needed.
I just cry for shards orbs when Alkosh runs out. With summerset we stick with the same sets for raids as it seems, but for dungeons there are some totaly sick combos.
For sumemrset it gets better. with infused jewelry coolddown will be 20secs. Catalyst passive provides 20ult on potion use, so you basicly get the 1 ult/sec that adds up a lot. its like having werewolfhideset equiped, without wearing it ^^.

What i tested on pts and what was a lot of fun with good dd in group that can properly weave

5x Aegis of galanwe (la buff set that cant proc on yourself) + 5 Warmachine + 2 Bloodspawn.
Had around 60% uptime on slayer but it could get better. The dps was so nice and it outperformed horn in a dungeon hm.
Will use this in vdsa after summerset (luckily allready have war machine wepons/shield, go get em).

So, now its time to move on to Summerset.

What will change for us NB Tanks?
Silver Leash(Fighters Guild) - Pulls now! Was about time, stam cost shouldn worry anyone, good to manage, bye swarm mother^^

Dark Shade change - Well, i would only slot it IF they do the aoe every 4 seconds, otherwise thorvokum (monster set is better).

Dark Cloak Change - Exciting! Was performing really well and with chains one of the top things i have asked over a year for. Like that its a hot. Know big dmg is coming, press it right before and the dmg taken will be a joke most of the time ^^.

Bolstering change - well buff for pvp group players, wont see much use in pve anymore(rarely has, cause warhorn!).

Funnel Cost increase - rarely used it, nothing changes for me here.

Path healing reduced - meh.......still enough offhealing in certain encounters, might keep it on my bar. Best skill to proc sentinel/bogdan if u want to use it.

Psijic Skill line - well there are 3 nice things in it, we have the oh *** ressource return thing (will be used rarely, as sustain isnt a issue) we have the rootnegatething, wich is nice, in certain encounters and will find a place on my bar, probably flex spot ^^.

Ultimate - the one morph that gives minor protection. Not sure, because with all the mitigation, those 8% wont add up that much more. Can be frontbared for more safe approach, warhorn backbar.


Havent finalized my build for Summerset, but please dont do alcasts nocturnal/tavas thingy, there are better setups available and u dont need a set that heals you. No hate here against alcast, but that setup is almost as good as my ranged stamina bow/bow build with imbue weapons *laugh* will be posted soon, but is just for fun i mayx call it fake mag player.

If u have further questions or if i missed something just ask it here or pm me.
Can also join on discord/Teamspeak whatever.

Another fun fact, i was allowed to tank in our progression group as a NB Tank. If it would be a hardcore progression group(groups that change classes and raidsetup according to whats best to get highest scores) i would go dk for engulfing reasons, but if u just go for completion (achievements, clears ect) and your group is just going for progress there is no reason to tank on the class you want.

Do you play on eu server? Need another Tank ^^.

Hope it helped a bit and like i said, summon me for more information or expirience.

oh forgot stats, as imperial i have right now 40k health, 17k mag, 21k stam.

Bye

Wow never thought of using Dark Cloak (live) like that! Can you dodge Heavy Attacks with it without killing someone? Or the boss still try to hit you even invisible?

Also I appreciate all the info, as a NB Tank that is finally trying to get into trials. Really helpful!

A Heavy Attack by Bosses or even Trash can be dodged as well if u press cloak right before ^^

actosh

Joxer61 wrote: »

actosh wrote: »

Hey @Joxer61 ,

after being summoned by @aeowulf i try my best to tell you how i handle things as a Nightblade Tank (since 2.5years now).

To open this up, let me tell you that i do hm daylies/hm vtrials. Due to our daugther been born a year ago i hadnt had time to stick with the Raidgroup i had played for several due to a lack of time. Have Tanked on a DK for quite a while, but nb was my first char and the one i love the most (like the concept), but dk tanking became boring and while warden is a good tank, i didnt wanted to play one because i felt that all those flowers and purple color would lead to a sex change (hahahahaha, girls class, visual wise).

What i did on my NB as a Maintank was: AA HM, Hel Ra HM, Vmol (no time for hm, but tried it, was okay), Sanctum Ophidia HM, Vhof HM and asylum on Vet and +1.

Right now i´ve been again part of a raidgroup that is average, but still there with my NB Tank and spend the last time to raid mostly in Vhof ^^.

I try to dive in a bit and i´m sorry for the Wall of text that may be incoming.

Class Comparsion

DK and Warden are hands down better in terms of group support, no need to discuss that.
Dk got Engulfing Flames (targets take 8% more dmg from all fire sources) and Warden got the Frost Cloak (Major Ward/Resolve for 5 allies and yourself).
Engulfing debuff will either be removed or is just working alone for the caster, if zos keeps tweaking balancing that way, just my prediction. Can be wrong ^^.

These are the things that make them stand out! The easymode sustain is just a added Bonus so i never understood why ppl need to be an argonian dk/warden (scrap that 10% more healing if combined).

Crowd Control(especialy roots/slows), while sometimes helpfull, was never a real problem beside the fact we have no chains/frozen gate (pull skill). That lack could be somewhat compensated with LOS breaking, and swarm mother (did vmsa on my nb tank in raidsetup and 35k was easy with breaks).

Selfhealing is pretty good on a dk(1 button press Coagolating blood), and okayish on a warden(2 buttons arctic winds *meh* or the vines). On a Nightblade you likely have funnel health, refreshing path, and siphoning (learn to weave heal is ok).


Sets

If u go for trials, go full meta or go home! If u need to start wearing selfish noobsets, trials are the wrong place for you, even in no progression groups that just want a completion.

Typical Alkosh/Ebon/bloodspawn-Warden or alkosh/torugs/bloodspawn-warden.

Even as a NB u dont need selfish sets to carry you or to help with stustain.


At the moment my build looks like this for trials

Pierce Armor - Heroic Slash - Dark Cloak** - Refreshing Path - Leeching Strikes
Inner Rage - Drain Essence - Balance - Efficent Purge - Double Take

Short description of skills

Pierce Armor - Taunt and debuff
Heroic Slash - Ultgen and Minor Maim (use every 9 sec for ultgen)
Dark Cloak - Well, with 1 Tamriel i think it became usefull in some trials. Why? It makes the next direct attack at you miss for 100%. Wont work on channels or aoe. Vas Last boss for example u can make his hard hitter miss. Vhof second boss the same with the direct boss attacks or the steam guy when he loads up a heavy at you. Works on Boss 4 in vhof as well. Need to create a list ^^.
Refreshing Path - Healing over time, procs shadow ward passive giving us major resolve and ward. Does offhealing and is the reason why sentinel or bogdan are funny monsterhelm choices in certain fights.
Leeching Strikes - At the moment i have it slotted cause i light weave whenever there is time for the heal, and for the 111 Stam (wich is pathetic, but why not) ^^. That skill will likely be dropped with Summerset.

Inner Rage - Rangetaunt
Drain Essence - Enchants, taunts, buffs/debuffs are running and boss is doin stupid things, well...let me get 15Ult real fast in 3 seconds. Once you get familiar with boss behavior and rotations you know when to use it without a risk (wont work in aa^^)

Balance - Need Magicka, press it. Besides that, provides after use 24 secs of major ward/resolve. Drop it maybe in Summerset for meditate or use the slot otherwise.

Purge - Flexspot, in situations where purgei s needed, its slotted. If not needed slot something else ^^

Double Take - The other morph provides minor resolve/ward but in most fights u get it from combat prayer and when not getting it u wont die because of it. Double take gives 4 secs of major expedition, nice for quick position changes.

Ults are Warhorn frontbar, Veil Backbar. Will be changed for Summerset.

How to fight?

Well, just like on any other tank, taunt, debuff, buff yourself and have fun. Learn to light attack weave in between blocks for a bit of healing with siphoning and for small sustain increase. In dire need of stamina? Rercast leeching, based on how long it has been running get ressources back calculatet from the return you would get at the end.
Better to do a heavy attack, no need to permblock in about 90% of the fights. Thats the most important thing you need to learn. Can do some training together if u like to.

I have changed around 3 months ago, all my block cost reduction enchants from jewelry to potion cooldown (im imperial, lizards are ugly as *** and i wont play one for that ressourcereturn that is going to be nerfed soon).
Now my potions are up every 30 secs, and with a few heavys from time to time sustain is a breeze. No sustainsets needed.
I just cry for shards orbs when Alkosh runs out. With summerset we stick with the same sets for raids as it seems, but for dungeons there are some totaly sick combos.
For sumemrset it gets better. with infused jewelry coolddown will be 20secs. Catalyst passive provides 20ult on potion use, so you basicly get the 1 ult/sec that adds up a lot. its like having werewolfhideset equiped, without wearing it ^^.

What i tested on pts and what was a lot of fun with good dd in group that can properly weave

5x Aegis of galanwe (la buff set that cant proc on yourself) + 5 Warmachine + 2 Bloodspawn.
Had around 60% uptime on slayer but it could get better. The dps was so nice and it outperformed horn in a dungeon hm.
Will use this in vdsa after summerset (luckily allready have war machine wepons/shield, go get em).

So, now its time to move on to Summerset.

What will change for us NB Tanks?
Silver Leash(Fighters Guild) - Pulls now! Was about time, stam cost shouldn worry anyone, good to manage, bye swarm mother^^

Dark Shade change - Well, i would only slot it IF they do the aoe every 4 seconds, otherwise thorvokum (monster set is better).

Dark Cloak Change - Exciting! Was performing really well and with chains one of the top things i have asked over a year for. Like that its a hot. Know big dmg is coming, press it right before and the dmg taken will be a joke most of the time ^^.

Bolstering change - well buff for pvp group players, wont see much use in pve anymore(rarely has, cause warhorn!).

Funnel Cost increase - rarely used it, nothing changes for me here.

Path healing reduced - meh.......still enough offhealing in certain encounters, might keep it on my bar. Best skill to proc sentinel/bogdan if u want to use it.

Psijic Skill line - well there are 3 nice things in it, we have the oh *** ressource return thing (will be used rarely, as sustain isnt a issue) we have the rootnegatething, wich is nice, in certain encounters and will find a place on my bar, probably flex spot ^^.

Ultimate - the one morph that gives minor protection. Not sure, because with all the mitigation, those 8% wont add up that much more. Can be frontbared for more safe approach, warhorn backbar.


Havent finalized my build for Summerset, but please dont do alcasts nocturnal/tavas thingy, there are better setups available and u dont need a set that heals you. No hate here against alcast, but that setup is almost as good as my ranged stamina bow/bow build with imbue weapons *laugh* will be posted soon, but is just for fun i mayx call it fake mag player.

If u have further questions or if i missed something just ask it here or pm me.
Can also join on discord/Teamspeak whatever.

Another fun fact, i was allowed to tank in our progression group as a NB Tank. If it would be a hardcore progression group(groups that change classes and raidsetup according to whats best to get highest scores) i would go dk for engulfing reasons, but if u just go for completion (achievements, clears ect) and your group is just going for progress there is no reason to tank on the class you want.

Do you play on eu server? Need another Tank ^^.

Hope it helped a bit and like i said, summon me for more information or expirience.

oh forgot stats, as imperial i have right now 40k health, 17k mag, 21k stam.

Bye

That is awesome awesome info and very much appreciated!!! I am on PC NA sadly but still you info and better yet enthusiasm towards the class is great help! As far as stats go, all health or a mix? That bit always gets me and also...all the set lingo, yeah, totally foreign to this kid since I have been away from the for 3...nah more like 4 years. Guild says formed March 2014 so yea, its been awhile!!
Thanks again!!!

@Joxer61 for health, while learning i would suggest you go for around 40k HP, and make sure stam is a tad higher than mag, cause shards/orbs restore highest ressource.

aeowulf

Thanks @actosh - awesome info as usual

Been considering a tava & war machine build myself.

aeowulf

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Just so you know, Bahraha's Curse will provide more healing than Nocturnals due to higher uptime. Plus it can hit multiple targets and "sap tank" for you in trash fights. Nocturnals is just a bad set overall sadly, it should provide something else.

EDIT: Not to mention it doesn't have that ugly stamina recovery piece.

And damage tick for assisted agro

jypcy

Thank you @aeowulf for the summon and @actosh for the insights. That’s exactly who I was thinking of.

Also @Joxer61 I highly recommend the UESP build editor. It’s typically updated pretty quickly as each patch rolls out and I find it to be a great resource for playing around with cp, traits, enchants, gear sets, skills, etc. So for example, Actosh recommends 40k health, and I’d echo that, so you can check exactly how many points you need to put into health and how many health enchants you need to hit that mark, then put the rest towards stam and mag, all without spending any gold. The PTS is another resource where you can play around with builds without any cost to your live account, but I much prefer the click and search functionality of the build editor over searching through boxes on the PTS.

Also feel free to hit me up on PC NA, same @ name as my forum name. If I’m not otherwise busy I’d definitely be down to help you with some crafted pieces and/or dungeon runs.

Joxer61

jypcy wrote: »

Thank you @aeowulf for the summon and @actosh for the insights. That’s exactly who I was thinking of.

Also @Joxer61 I highly recommend the UESP build editor. It’s typically updated pretty quickly as each patch rolls out and I find it to be a great resource for playing around with cp, traits, enchants, gear sets, skills, etc. So for example, Actosh recommends 40k health, and I’d echo that, so you can check exactly how many points you need to put into health and how many health enchants you need to hit that mark, then put the rest towards stam and mag, all without spending any gold. The PTS is another resource where you can play around with builds without any cost to your live account, but I much prefer the click and search functionality of the build editor over searching through boxes on the PTS.

Also feel free to hit me up on PC NA, same @ name as my forum name. If I’m not otherwise busy I’d definitely be down to help you with some crafted pieces and/or dungeon runs.

That is great info and help!! Now you guys are coming out...was worried for a bit there. The last bit, once my confidence gets up there I just may take you up on that! Cheers!

actosh

@Joxer61
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildEditor

Best build editor out there as mentioned before by @jypcy
A lot of information wich can be overwhelming at first, but its so damn helpfull.

Make sure to create an account (upper right corner) and you will be able to save builds and alter them.

I think i need to grind up 1 char on my NA Account (playing eu all the time).

Have a nice day guys.

Laquey

The OP has posted the wrong question, the question they should be asking is "Are NB Tank / Healers a thing".

Argonian Magblade tank -

5 Baraha's / 5 SPC / 2 monster (Sentinel of Rkugamz / other) - 32K Mag, 31K Health, 18K Stam (With mag / SP / crit pots - you're a NB argonian pot druggie) only 1100 ish regen but you regen most from heavy attacks on off balance mobs.

1H&S Bar:
Pierce Armour
Refreshing Path
Healthy Offering (Burst heal for others)
Absorb Magic (Projectiles Heal you)
Dark Cloak (percentage health heal for you / minor prot)
Soul Siphon (Now 28M range)

Lightning Staff ( Resto Staff if someone else has lightning)
Flex slot (Inner Rage / Silver Leash / Energy Orb)
Elemental Blockade / Combat Prayer
Funnel Health
Dark AOE Shade
Flex Slot (Mirage / Other needed from slot 1)
Aggressive War Horn

With 31K health nothing in a 4 toon instance can one shot you with your minor protection up and your passive heals are amazing on both bars since staves now count as 2 pieces. Baraha's, Refreshing path and funnel health alone will keep you up through most things and will definitely allow you to spam healthy offering in a 3:1 rotation with the new dark cloak which doesn't even touch your mana bar.

The build also generates ultimate very quicky with it's siphon skills and NB passives with potions.

You can pack in most of the things a Tank / Healer pair brings to a dungeon in one toon and have 3 DPS come along for the ride.

Brrrofski

For 4 man content NB tank is not only viable, but strong.

Don't set it up like a normal tank. Push max magica and spell damage. Path, funnel and sap is plenty of healing, I won't use cloak in summerset.

My setup is selfish (no sets which aid the group) but it pulls 15-20k dps, while maintaining proper aggro. So 4 man content is a breeze as everything dies quickly. I made this for LFG because you jump right in as a tank, but if your group is bad it's infuriating. At least with this I can pull them through most stuff. With a competent team like if u do stuff with my guild, it's wonderful.

I run 5 shackle, 5 bloodthorn, 1 kena, 1 domihaus. S&b front, ice staff back. Don't out points into first destroy staff passive. I use ice staff for ele drain to help sustain and woe to root stuff.

It's incredibly active with a non stop rotation and bar swapping. Not the easiest to tank on, but when you get used to it it feels so much more rewarding.

Haven't been on the game in a while, but my stats are something like:
30k health
35k magica
18k Stam
3.2k spell damage
1500 mag recovery
900 Stam recovery

Shard won't give me Stam, but I have decent Regen and I don't perma block. Plus leeching strikes, plus bloodthorn touch proc, plus argonian potion passive... plenty of Stam sustain. Mag sustain is more of an issue, but as long as I keep ele drain up it's fine. I have 3 spell damage glyphs so might change one to recovery to make up for funnel cost increase... will see how bad sustain is when summerset drops on Xbox.

Sap tanking is still viable. Before Morrowind it was flat out broken. I could solo crazy stuff either it. I even soloed valkyb skoria from 40% health with no platforms left. It was broken. Sure, sustain is a lot harder now, but totally viable. I've never tried one in a vet trial - simply because I have zero interest in doing very trials. I've tanked one on a DK once and that's it.

I did have a detailed sap tank build from pre Morrowind that I'll update when I get a chance. Rotations, why I used certain sets and not others, why i used certain skills etc. I'll wait and see what summerset brings with psijic order and jewellery crafting and do it then probably. But trust me, for 4 man content, if you build a sap tank correctly it's super powerful.

Asardes

Laquey wrote: »

With 31K health nothing in a 4 toon instance can one shot you with your minor protection up and your passive heals are amazing on both bars since staves now count as 2 pieces.

I'd say 31K is rather marginal HP when taking a few punches in short order from certain bosses, such as



especially after they had split

Laquey

Asardes wrote: »

I'd say 31K is rather marginal HP when taking a few punches in short order from certain bosses, such as



especially after they had split

That would be some situation, all three punches in less than 1-2 seconds and I've have to not dodge them. In the next patch with Barahas, lets say on two targets so 2.5K HPS, funnel health 1K HPS, Refreshing path 1K HPS, and dark cloak 4.5K HPS with nothing else is 9K HPS minimum healing passively. If all three of those were in the same window, which I've never seen in all my farming of that instance, I'd just dodge roll or pop a tri pot potion.

_Salty_

Ive played Sap Tank since day 1 of Console release. Every patch systematically hurts them. Siphoning attacks was as defining a skill as Sap essence was to Tanking. An entire class has been gutted and we are left with using gear sets to replace our previous skills.

Sap tanks used to be able to contribute to group heals, while providing added dps to speed up runs and being able to spec higher into damage. The combination of damage, group healing and resource management was what made having a Sap Tank desirable in 4 man vet dungeons.

Brrrofski

_Salty_ wrote: »

Ive played Sap Tank since day 1 of Console release. Every patch systematically hurts them. Siphoning attacks was as defining a skill as Sap essence was to Tanking. An entire class has been gutted and we are left with using gear sets to replace our previous skills.

Sap tanks used to be able to contribute to group heals, while providing added dps to speed up runs and being able to spec higher into damage. The combination of damage, group healing and resource management was what made having a Sap Tank desirable in 4 man vet dungeons.

You absolutely can do this still. You just can't permablock anymore like you used to be able to do. You have to drop block and heavy attack a bit more. Ele drain for magica sustain kinda needed to if you haven't got a healer using it.

_Salty_

Brrrofski wrote: »

_Salty_ wrote: »

Ive played Sap Tank since day 1 of Console release. Every patch systematically hurts them. Siphoning attacks was as defining a skill as Sap essence was to Tanking. An entire class has been gutted and we are left with using gear sets to replace our previous skills.

Sap tanks used to be able to contribute to group heals, while providing added dps to speed up runs and being able to spec higher into damage. The combination of damage, group healing and resource management was what made having a Sap Tank desirable in 4 man vet dungeons.

You absolutely can do this still. You just can't permablock anymore like you used to be able to do. You have to drop block and heavy attack a bit more. Ele drain for magica sustain kinda needed to if you haven't got a healer using it.

I agree. I didnt permablock to begin with. The siphoning attacks nerfs made me have to reduce my damage and increase my sustain. We all had to adapt.

Guppet

exiars10 wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

RavenSworn wrote: »

Been tanking on a nb since beta. We've been hit hard by the nerf on siphoning attacks, which basically is the core skill of sap tanks. Dungeons and dlc HM can be done with a nb tank, it just requires a different group setup honestly.

Come summerset however, I've tried out alcast magnb tank and I've tweaked it to suit a Stam nb. It's not as efficient as a magnb (I have said before that the best setup for a nb tank is through magicka) but it does the job well.

I used tavas with Nocturnal Favour, with mirage being the core skill. Dark cloak scales with health, absorb magic scales with health and leeching strikes helps with a bit of health and resource gain.

In block heavy fights such as the axes in vAA, I wager constant Orbs / shards are needed more than a DK would in terms of resource gain but ultimately, a nb can tank. The community needs to get this, because it doesn't help with the diversity at endgame if they continue not to experiment or diversify their group setup. It is definitely different from your usual tank fare but having a tank other than a DK or warden means taking a it more effort to watch the fights.

Its a challenge. But on topic, nb tanks aren't dead.

Just so you know, Bahraha's Curse will provide more healing than Nocturnals due to higher uptime. Plus it can hit multiple targets and "sap tank" for you in trash fights. Nocturnals is just a bad set overall sadly, it should provide something else.

EDIT: Not to mention it doesn't have that ugly stamina recovery piece.

I plan next week to create my NB tank finally (waiting Summerset to hit) - what is better for self heals:
Bahraha's Curse or Leeching Plate? Or even both .

My NB is stamina one (as is pure stamina DD) so I guess Leeching Plate.

Get both, can even go livewire. Funnily triggering leaching can trigger baharahs as it causes damage.

You can literally pull two dozen mobs not attack a single one and watch them all kill themselves.

Pair it with magika tank, so you have sap heals, refreshing path, funnel health and soul siphon then you need no healer in dungeons.

Very viable and very fun. It’s amazing for soloing content your not supposed to solo.