Vivec NA Ruined (queue)

Vilestride

Elong wrote: »

Vilestride wrote: »

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

No, it's not a good thing in this form.
Swap to another alliance.......fine
Swap for the whole campaign
Or do you want to have integrity when you feel like it, not all the time?

Ok, you're right. We better hop back over and continue the glade/warden/rayles roof farms. That's a much better situation for DC.

I like that you guys tried to help DC in some ways by attacking our back keeps and yet they're still not happy lol.

Can't please everybody.

GlorphNoldorin

It is highly amusing to watch the elite of EP try to justify the fact that their top guild has no faction integrity.
It is also highly amusing that someone would think that this said guild was 'helping' DC.
It is highly amusing to see the only reasoned reply being some gif.

I said much earlier that this 'would be good' and no disappointment so far.

Elong

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

It is highly amusing to watch the elite of EP try to justify the fact that their top guild has no faction integrity.
It is also highly amusing that someone would think that this said guild was 'helping' DC.
It is highly amusing to see the only reasoned reply being some gif.

I said much earlier that this 'would be good' and no disappointment so far.

I'm not* justifying how they play, hell I already said I'm not in full agreement with any guilds doing that.

However, and this is the key point, they are free to play how they wish. They pay their own subs, bought their own crates etc etc, devote their own time to the game. You can't tell someone how to play.

It really is just a game, as corny as that sounds.

GlorphNoldorin

They are free to play this way until the rules are changed or not.
We can agree to disagree or not but I am perfectly within my rights to oppose the way they play.
If you dont like that I am afraid it's too bad.

zyk

Faction hopping is only lame when players switch to whichever team is doing well at any given moment -- which is what too many players do in this game.

Faction hopping to balance teams is a good thing. I can't believe anyone is whining about that.

HaroniNDeorum

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Dress it up anyway you wish.
You lack faction integrity.

This thread was started with that it it's centre......how unhealthy the faction balance is.
Some say that it's just a phase....it will come back.

I think it is more deep rooted and has become a problem.

Time will tell but I can and will speak out about it.

Faction integrity? Is the new faction pride?? Is 2018 man, move on. If a group of people wants to play on other alliance any day of their schedule, its fine, its cool. There shouldnt be salt about it

Ghostbane

An actual organised team of people decided to play on another faction that isn't dominating in order to have fun and to secondly help out.

Faction integrity? True integrity is balancing out the field and supporting the game, or else we will continue the trend of Cyrodiil with dominating sides bound by a coloured loyalty.

Cyrodiil competitive pvp is getting closer and closer to its deathbed, the fact that _any_ level of experienced guild is willing to play on a lesser armed faction should be applauded. The politics , abuse and potential in-house fracturing that comes with decisions like this have destroyed many good guilds in the past.

If any guild can get past that and still play with a smile on their face, learn from them. If you love this game, it needs more of them.

GlorphNoldorin

zyk wrote: »

Faction hopping is only lame when players switch to whichever team is doing well at any given moment -- which is what too many players do in this game.

Faction hopping to balance teams is a good thing. I can't believe anyone is whining about that.

They are hopping factions for 'fights.' I have no problem with a guild swapping for balance but it should be, in my opinion, for the whole campaign as a dc guild did recently.

When there are scores and rewards (however seen as trivial or pointless) then some integrity should be observed to ensure fair play.
To take this to the extreme, why have rules or factions at all? We do have factions and rules, so why not make them suited for the health of competition.

Dont know about salt, just my opinion.

Satiar

I suppose it raises the question, is the faction war over? That is pretty much the final failure of ZoS' grand three faction war: down to 1 server and people still feel the need to hop from faction to faction to find good fights.

For context, it used to be somewhat controversial to server hop. People thought it was unfair to just jump in and upset the balance of a server, or looked down on the people who did so as just looking for vast groups of pugs to farm. Rerolling a guild from faction to faction was a large deal, huge. There was a lot of uproar when we took VE from DC to EP for a single night specifically to fight CN. It's progressively gotten less and less taboo as the player base has dwindled, I suppose.

Joy_Division

So much for "faction hoppers" always bailing out on the losing side just to bandwagon on the winning side.

People just say anything to promote their agenda.

zyk

Satiar wrote: »

I suppose it raises the question, is the faction war over? That is pretty much the final failure of ZoS' grand three faction war: down to 1 server and people still feel the need to hop from faction to faction to find good fights.

I'd say it was dead from the start. I won't name anyone, but even in the early days of ESO there were EP and DC who switched to AD when it was the dominant faction. It was just less apparent because @account names weren't displayed and it was more difficult to do then because leveling took so much longer. But even then, when AD's dominance ended, we saw its massive queues vanish and EP's massive queues emerge as they became dominant.

This has always been an issue in online gaming because it's human nature. Regardless of the environment, most people will gravitate towards success -- to successful teams, companies, countries, etc... That's why all games need mechanisms to balance teams or you end up with the 90s Yankees/Red Wings/etc...

I think that most reasonable players recognized the value of VE switching from EP to DC when they did because it improved competitive balance. It may only be for a night or two so far, but the same seems true when Drac has changed teams.

Personally, I've been a vocal critic of faction hopping only when it results in imbalance. Though, I do like to err on the side of loyalty.

The bottom line is that AvA has always needed effective mechanisms to promote team balance. Unfortunately, it's been on life support for years and does not receive the attention from ZOS that it needs.

Vincelex

If this what being wrong feels like I don't want to be right.

Kilandros

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

Agrippa_Invisus

Kilandros wrote: »

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

There's not enough pvp community left to be picky about what faction someone usually plays on.

This is 'All my characters are red' Agrippa saying this, too.

Elong

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

There's not enough pvp community left to be picky about what faction someone usually plays on.

This is 'All my characters are red' Agrippa saying this, too.

I played DC for a couple of months and the abuse I got from both EP and DC was astounding.

Agrippa_Invisus

Elong wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

There's not enough pvp community left to be picky about what faction someone usually plays on.

This is 'All my characters are red' Agrippa saying this, too.

I played DC for a couple of months and the abuse I got from both EP and DC was astounding.

You were regularly derided in /zone for EP anytime there was a confirmed kill of you or the group you were with during that period. It was pretty childish.

GlorphNoldorin

I had said enough, but really will leave it at this.

We have a campaign system that is based around factions. We have a scoring system based around factions.
People changing when ever they wants erodes the point of a faction.
I am suggesting making it so you are locked to a faction for a campaign. This was how the game was started originally I believe.

Alternatively do away with factions/faction scoring all together, make a system that incentivizes game play where people can change any time they wish.

Vilestride

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

Alternatively do away with factions/faction scoring all together, make a system that incentivizes game play where people can change any time they wish.

Sounds good. Team-mates should be dictated by guild tabard only and guilds should score points by claiming objectives. Free-for-all cyrodil, Bring it.

Elong

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

There's not enough pvp community left to be picky about what faction someone usually plays on.

This is 'All my characters are red' Agrippa saying this, too.

I played DC for a couple of months and the abuse I got from both EP and DC was astounding.

You were regularly derided in /zone for EP anytime there was a confirmed kill of you or the group you were with during that period. It was pretty childish.

They all work with me again now I'm back on EP, funny (or sad) isn't it....

Anazasi

So it would be ok for DK to roll EP and ride along for the crappy gold rewards? Or maybe we should roll DC and blob around the map with them. If players aren't held accountable for what they do as players what's the point of any rules? The population has always had the opportunity to roll or re-roll when they want. The issue is really about the length of the game. At launch the faction you played meant something because you were locked to it. The effort it took to grind up a new character was the deterrent to faction swapping. The fact that you can roll a new character today and be lvl 50 in 8 hours of grinding and then spend the next few weeks leveling the other skills just exasperates the many issues in PVP. Players can say what they want about faction swapping but the reality is everyone does it (but DK apparently), but that doesn't mean players should swap daily based on who they want to play with or for at that given hour.

The litmus test that should answer all these question isn't what's wrong with doing it, but rather what would guilds and players be like if they couldn't. Pride is something you can't achieve when you have no loyalty to anything but yourself.

If you think the PVP game is dying, perhaps players should stop doing what they have been doing to aid it along to the grave. I would hate to think that the epitaph of ESO PVP will read died by a thousands swappers--I mean cuts.

CyrusArya

Anazasi wrote: »

Pride is something you can't achieve when you have no loyalty to anything but yourself.

I have plenty of loyalty...to my guilds and friends. Literally could not care less about the alliance war or any particular faction. I have a feeling many others feel the same way.

You do not set the parameters for loyalty for anyone but yourself, and possibly your guild if they be lemmings like that.

Vilestride

Anazasi wrote: »

. Pride is something you can't achieve when you have no loyalty to anything but yourself.

Pride is a terribly destructive thing, I'd rather not indulge thanks.

Anazasi wrote: »

The fact that you can roll a new character today and be lvl 50 in 8 hours of grinding

That's a really slow grind......Try more like 3-4

zyk

Minalan wrote: »

PS: Everybody knows that AD is the best faction to join if you like outnumbered fights.

I've been saying this for a long time. If you like good fights against good groups, fight for AD on PC/NA. The majority of small and medium organized group players usually play for EP or DC.

Though, I should add that I haven't PVP'd in months. However, based on Discord, Youtube and forum observations, it seems to remain true.

zyk

Sunday afternoon, 1:40PM EDT: EP keeping it real.

I don't blame anyone for being frustrated.

HaroniNDeorum

Elong wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Why do people even care about faction hopping or any other PvP drama anymore. Log in, socialize while PvPing, log out is all that's left anymore.

There's not enough pvp community left to be picky about what faction someone usually plays on.

This is 'All my characters are red' Agrippa saying this, too.

I played DC for a couple of months and the abuse I got from both EP and DC was astounding.

Same here man and i only played 3 weeks as Ep, the hate i got from Ad was incredible and few times funny

HaroniNDeorum

Fair points from you but still without completely knowledge of situations and stuff. I switched after i got 0 positives answers when i tried to help Ad groups and guilds, no one wanted help or advices or improvements. Geez why would i stay there? And second, what is that "came back to ad and played zone general" hahaha last time i played zone general was almost 1 year ago. If they were down it was because they wanted to be down, as i said i offered help and advices ans got rejected everywhere, now my play time is lower and limited to only my guild raids which i enjoy a lot, everything we can achieve is due to hard work, coordination and constant feedback and we are really strong in our timezone. At same time i am glad Solar gave me the opportunity to join his group and be part of an incredible group of people.

Sandman929

[edited to remove quote]

Since we've got our own little subthread here as console plebs...DC in Shor has the problem that DC in general has, they think their stam dueling builds are going to be effective against an organized EP Emp group + randoms. DC is FOTM wardens, stamblades and duelers for the most part.

Agrippa_Invisus

Sandman929 wrote: »

Since we've got our own little subthread here as console plebs...DC in Shor has the problem that DC in general has, they think their stam dueling builds are going to be effective against an organized EP Emp group + randoms. DC is FOTM wardens, stamblades and duelers for the most part.

PC NA DC has a lot of healers and tanks running in their zergs. The running joke is if you haven't been speared at least once, you're not fighting DC.

CyrusArya

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

PC NA DC has a lot of healers and tanks running in their zergs. The running joke is if you haven't been speared at least once, you're not fighting DC.

I heard DC EU is also full of tanky healplars cus of all the role playing baguettes who think it’s their civic duty to play a Breton Templar lmao.

Agrippa_Invisus

But getting back to Vivec.

I'm not even sure what's to be done about this point. Cross our fingers and hope by the 3-4 week mark after Summerset things are back to relative normalcy? That seems a little Pollyanna-ish.

Even when Vivec got to triple lock last night, there was not much of an effort to dethrone or gate EP. DC made one attempt at BRK (last emp keep + scroll), AD made a couple. DC took one shot at Arrius.

After that, DC went back to pushing for Roe and Brindle and ignored EP for the most part. I have no doubt that must of been very frustrating for AD. It seems they went to bed once it was obvious DC wasn't putting much effort in.