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The Proc Meta is alive and well
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Proc sets are one of the ways to balance mag classes against stam in no cp. Mag is currently severely gimped in no cp due to lack of stam which means no roll dodge and bad mobility.
Even though I do not use them nor support them there are a necessary evil atm.
Stam resource management isn't a viable excuse with Shackle breaker and Amberplasm in the game.0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Proc sets are one of the ways to balance mag classes against stam in no cp. Mag is currently severely gimped in no cp due to lack of stam which means no roll dodge and bad mobility.
Even though I do not use them nor support them there are a necessary evil atm.
Stam resource management isn't a viable excuse with Shackle breaker and Amberplasm in the game.
I was waiting for someone to say that:D
If you are gonna wear sustain sets, where do you think the damage is going to come from if not from a proc.
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Proc sets are one of the ways to balance mag classes against stam in no cp. Mag is currently severely gimped in no cp due to lack of stam which means no roll dodge and bad mobility.
Even though I do not use them nor support them there are a necessary evil atm.
Stam resource management isn't a viable excuse with Shackle breaker and Amberplasm in the game.
I was waiting for someone to say that:D
If you are gonna wear sustain sets, where do you think the damage is going to come from if not from a proc.
I have to wear a sustain set for my stamina characters as well. It's not like magicka gets a pass.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak
Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.
Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.
I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.
The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.
Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.
Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of
They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.
Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.
There's another type of player that uses proc sets. The player that understands rotations, can adapt on the fly in combat, and wants to fight smarter not harder. I like it when the fight ends faster!
If you aren't using proc sets, you might be an idiot. I'm sure that will be edited but it needs to be said.2 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »PhoenixGrey wrote: »Proc sets are one of the ways to balance mag classes against stam in no cp. Mag is currently severely gimped in no cp due to lack of stam which means no roll dodge and bad mobility.
Even though I do not use them nor support them there are a necessary evil atm.
Stam resource management isn't a viable excuse with Shackle breaker and Amberplasm in the game.
I was waiting for someone to say that:D
If you are gonna wear sustain sets, where do you think the damage is going to come from if not from a proc.
I have to wear a sustain set for my stamina characters as well. It's not like magicka gets a pass.
Not if you are a stamblade or a stamden.
But going back to your original post, I agree the proc sets you mentioned are over performing and there are more to come next patch.
I would just say if you cannot fix base game issues with class abilities, you take the easy way out and introduce proc sets.Edited by PhoenixGrey on May 17, 2018 3:35AM0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If zaan worked well against the infestation of Stam NBs I’d be all for it.
But of all the classes, Stam NB has the best suite of counters for it.
I’m excited for sloads. It’s cheese for sure but it’ll help with this overpopulation problem. Darn NBs are breeding like rabbits.
Though I don't think Nightblades are as overpopulated as you're portraying, I'm glad I won't have to invest in detection pots anymore
We must play on different Servers. You can watch my stream to get an idea of how overpopulated they are on PC NA. I count them out before every match.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak
Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.
Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.
I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.
The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.
Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.
Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of
They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.
Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.
There's another type of player that uses proc sets. The player that understands rotations, can adapt on the fly in combat, and wants to fight smarter not harder. I like it when the fight ends faster!
If you aren't using proc sets, you might be an idiot. I'm sure that will be edited but it needs to be said.
Proc sets are the opposite of smart, it rewards brainless players with no skill. This goes for damage and sets like earthgore. Sure they make it “easier” to kill but that doesn’t mean you should play like a cheesy bitchh just to get a kill.
The devs have catered to thumbless players for so long to the point we’re now at the point where people take pride in using proc sets and cheesy builds as if it’s next level. What a time...
3 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BGs is currently a mess of skoria, zaan, celurion, and thurvokuns. There was a brief moment when ZOS rightly brought down the hammer on proc sets and we all thought they’d seen the light, but perhaps their plan all along was simply to use that giant nerf patch as a way to set the base to introduce new sets to get people to buy content. Certainly the vast majority of the balance they do introduce only aligns with what players want when it seems to align with the ability to sell content. Which makes sense to some extent but a lot of it is also unnecessary.Edited by Vapirko on May 17, 2018 5:04AM1 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak
Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.
Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.
I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.
The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.
Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.
Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of
They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.
Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.
There's another type of player that uses proc sets. The player that understands rotations, can adapt on the fly in combat, and wants to fight smarter not harder. I like it when the fight ends faster!
If you aren't using proc sets, you might be an idiot. I'm sure that will be edited but it needs to be said.
Proc sets are the opposite of smart, it rewards brainless players with no skill. This goes for damage and sets like earthgore. Sure they make it “easier” to kill but that doesn’t mean you should play like a cheesy bitchh just to get a kill.
The devs have catered to thumbless players for so long to the point we’re now at the point where people take pride in using proc sets and cheesy builds as if it’s next level. What a time...
Gimping yourself on purpose by not using certain sets is just "false pride", it won´t do you any good. You´re not less skilful just because you use certain sets.
If the important thing is to perform well in PvP, you´ll use the best/appropriate tools available. Failing to use "BiS" is a sign that you lack skill (not implying Zaan is BiS, since I find the set quite underwhelming).
And the term "cheese" is overused these days. There´re people out there that even consider DK´s talons or blocking "cheese", so excuse me if I´m a bit sceptical towards the word. If you want "fair" and "skilful" PvP go and duel someone and apply 200 rules of what you can and can´t use. But in Cyrodil or Battlegrounds, the reality is something different. You either use the best tools for the job, or you don´t.2 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If zaan worked well against the infestation of Stam NBs I’d be all for it.
But of all the classes, Stam NB has the best suite of counters for it.
I’m excited for sloads. It’s cheese for sure but it’ll help with this overpopulation problem. Darn NBs are breeding like rabbits.
Though I don't think Nightblades are as overpopulated as you're portraying, I'm glad I won't have to invest in detection pots anymore
We must play on different Servers. You can watch my stream to get an idea of how overpopulated they are on PC NA. I count them out before every match.
I do the same thing. My rule of thumb is to see how many Nightblades I will be facing at the start of the match. If there's 2 or more I slot an ability to deal with their invisibility. I have to slot an anti-invisibility move around 1/3 of the time. PS4 NA is where I play.0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak
Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.
Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.
I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.
The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.
Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.
Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of
They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.
Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.
There's another type of player that uses proc sets. The player that understands rotations, can adapt on the fly in combat, and wants to fight smarter not harder. I like it when the fight ends faster!
If you aren't using proc sets, you might be an idiot. I'm sure that will be edited but it needs to be said.
Proc sets are the opposite of smart, it rewards brainless players with no skill. This goes for damage and sets like earthgore. Sure they make it “easier” to kill but that doesn’t mean you should play like a cheesy bitchh just to get a kill.
The devs have catered to thumbless players for so long to the point we’re now at the point where people take pride in using proc sets and cheesy builds as if it’s next level. What a time...
Gimping yourself on purpose by not using certain sets is just "false pride", it won´t do you any good. You´re not less skilful just because you use certain sets.
If the important thing is to perform well in PvP, you´ll use the best/appropriate tools available. Failing to use "BiS" is a sign that you lack skill (not implying Zaan is BiS, since I find the set quite underwhelming).
And the term "cheese" is overused these days. There´re people out there that even consider DK´s talons or blocking "cheese", so excuse me if I´m a bit sceptical towards the word. If you want "fair" and "skilful" PvP go and duel someone and apply 200 rules of what you can and can´t use. But in Cyrodil or Battlegrounds, the reality is something different. You either use the best tools for the job, or you don´t.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable my man but I rather kill someone based off of my skill not a set doing 20k , you know more than some people’s full rotation.
I rather die because I got outplayed and xv1ed not out procced. X
It’s has nothing to do with pride or ego , it’s about wanting feel challenged and wanting to kill people on your own rather than letting the set do it. Bone pirate, ravager, shackle, transmutation etc. is bis. When we start to consider things like zaaan bis we really skew what it means to be bis and open up more room for sets like it. A line needs to be drawn...
Edited by CatchMeTrolling on May 17, 2018 1:42PM5 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CatchMeTrolling wrote: »CatchMeTrolling wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak
Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.
Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.
I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.
The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.
Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.
Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of
They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.
Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.
There's another type of player that uses proc sets. The player that understands rotations, can adapt on the fly in combat, and wants to fight smarter not harder. I like it when the fight ends faster!
If you aren't using proc sets, you might be an idiot. I'm sure that will be edited but it needs to be said.
Proc sets are the opposite of smart, it rewards brainless players with no skill. This goes for damage and sets like earthgore. Sure they make it “easier” to kill but that doesn’t mean you should play like a cheesy bitchh just to get a kill.
The devs have catered to thumbless players for so long to the point we’re now at the point where people take pride in using proc sets and cheesy builds as if it’s next level. What a time...
Gimping yourself on purpose by not using certain sets is just "false pride", it won´t do you any good. You´re not less skilful just because you use certain sets.
If the important thing is to perform well in PvP, you´ll use the best/appropriate tools available. Failing to use "BiS" is a sign that you lack skill (not implying Zaan is BiS, since I find the set quite underwhelming).
And the term "cheese" is overused these days. There´re people out there that even consider DK´s talons or blocking "cheese", so excuse me if I´m a bit sceptical towards the word. If you want "fair" and "skilful" PvP go and duel someone and apply 200 rules of what you can and can´t use. But in Cyrodil or Battlegrounds, the reality is something different. You either use the best tools for the job, or you don´t.
Whatever makes you feel comfortable my man but I rather kill someone based off of my skill not a set doing 20k , you know more than some people’s full rotation.
I rather die because I got outplayed and xv1ed not out procced. X
It’s has nothing to do with pride or ego , it’s about wanting feel challenged and wanting to kill people on your own rather than letting the set do it. Bone pirate, ravager, shackle, transmutation etc. is bis. When we start to consider things like zaaan bis we really skew what it means to be bis and open up more room for sets like it. A line needs to be drawn...
Proc sets like Zaan still aren’t BIS. Its long cooldown means it’s rarely relevant, and the fact that it’s a proc means you can’t coordinate its burst with a teammate.
A proc set like zaan gives a bad or mediocre player a chance to score a kill on a good player, but that proc set user will never be as effective as a good player because the bad player will have to play around the proc timing, rather than playing around the dynamic combat situations. The proc set wearer will be annoying to one person, but they won’t take out a group.... and BGs are 4v4, not 1v1.
Will zaan + cloak pad the user’s K/D? Yes. Will it help them beat a team of good players? No.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
Proc sets like Zaan still aren’t BIS. Its long cooldown means it’s rarely relevant, and the fact that it’s a proc means you can’t coordinate its burst with a teammate.
A proc set like zaan gives a bad or mediocre player a chance to score a kill on a good player, but that proc set user will never be as effective as a good player because the bad player will have to play around the proc timing, rather than playing around the dynamic combat situations. The proc set wearer will be annoying to one person, but they won’t take out a group.... and BGs are 4v4, not 1v1.
Will zaan + cloak pad the user’s K/D? Yes. Will it help them beat a team of good players? No.
Unless everyone on the tean has zaan. Even being on the receiving end, I can't help but find the hilarity in a zaan zerg. Its up there with having a group all run meteor to "make it rain" or all running soul assault to RP ghostbusters by "crossing the streams".
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Diddly_D_Potatoes wrote: »Proc sets like Zaan still aren’t BIS. Its long cooldown means it’s rarely relevant, and the fact that it’s a proc means you can’t coordinate its burst with a teammate.
A proc set like zaan gives a bad or mediocre player a chance to score a kill on a good player, but that proc set user will never be as effective as a good player because the bad player will have to play around the proc timing, rather than playing around the dynamic combat situations. The proc set wearer will be annoying to one person, but they won’t take out a group.... and BGs are 4v4, not 1v1.
Will zaan + cloak pad the user’s K/D? Yes. Will it help them beat a team of good players? No.
Unless everyone on the tean has zaan. Even being on the receiving end, I can't help but find the hilarity in a zaan zerg. Its up there with having a group all run meteor to "make it rain" or all running soul assault to RP ghostbusters by "crossing the streams".
But if you have a team of four, and you’re competing against another team of four... the team on the receiving end would just purify it.
Zaan isn’t really relevant in play at a high skill level. It’s only relevant in Xv1 and pugging around.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
CatchMeTrolling✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not everyone play bg as a premade, so it’s not guaranteed that it’ll always be a 4v4v4. You’ll get 1v1s, 1v4, 2v1, 4v4 etc.
You can’t purify zaaan if you don’t have purify, can’t los with objects because it goes through it and you can’t escape it if you have people gap close spamming and rooting you.
It’s easy to say you’ll do this and that in a premade but those rules don’t apply to random groups, your teammates are purely rng. Can get in a game where everyone is working together, then in the next game everyone is doing their own thing in 3 different locations.0 -
Mihael✭✭✭✭Yeah when playing in a group zaan users are mostly just free kills but unfortunately due to the uncompetitive nature of bgs most people including myself don’t play in a group , which is why it’s so important to fix the bugs and maybe adjust the way it deals damage so it can be good in pve but not really strong in pvp0
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DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Is there any set eso players won’t complain about?Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
ShadowMonarch✭✭✭✭Diddly_D_Potatoes wrote: »Proc sets like Zaan still aren’t BIS. Its long cooldown means it’s rarely relevant, and the fact that it’s a proc means you can’t coordinate its burst with a teammate.
A proc set like zaan gives a bad or mediocre player a chance to score a kill on a good player, but that proc set user will never be as effective as a good player because the bad player will have to play around the proc timing, rather than playing around the dynamic combat situations. The proc set wearer will be annoying to one person, but they won’t take out a group.... and BGs are 4v4, not 1v1.
Will zaan + cloak pad the user’s K/D? Yes. Will it help them beat a team of good players? No.
Unless everyone on the tean has zaan. Even being on the receiving end, I can't help but find the hilarity in a zaan zerg. Its up there with having a group all run meteor to "make it rain" or all running soul assault to RP ghostbusters by "crossing the streams".
Everyone on the team needs Earthgore not zaan!!!0 -
ShadowMonarch wrote: »Diddly_D_Potatoes wrote: »Proc sets like Zaan still aren’t BIS. Its long cooldown means it’s rarely relevant, and the fact that it’s a proc means you can’t coordinate its burst with a teammate.
A proc set like zaan gives a bad or mediocre player a chance to score a kill on a good player, but that proc set user will never be as effective as a good player because the bad player will have to play around the proc timing, rather than playing around the dynamic combat situations. The proc set wearer will be annoying to one person, but they won’t take out a group.... and BGs are 4v4, not 1v1.
Will zaan + cloak pad the user’s K/D? Yes. Will it help them beat a team of good players? No.
Unless everyone on the tean has zaan. Even being on the receiving end, I can't help but find the hilarity in a zaan zerg. Its up there with having a group all run meteor to "make it rain" or all running soul assault to RP ghostbusters by "crossing the streams".
Everyone on the team needs Earthgore not zaan!!!
While I find a team all running zaan funny, i think I'd just be annoyed by a team running all earthgore.0