The Proc Meta is alive and well

Strider__Roshin

Skoria, Caluurion, and Zaan. These three proc sets are ubiquitous, and have been making battlegrounds incredibly unpleasant. I'm getting hit by more proc sets now than I did when Viper was alive and well. So if these proc sets are more powerful than the stamina procs why aren't they getting nerfed when the weaker stamina ones did? And rightfully so I might add.

BNOC

Which proc sets were weaker than Skoria?

UppGRAYxDD

Don't forget about Selenes and Veli...

Strider__Roshin

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Don't forget about Selenes and Veli...

Neither of which are a reliable as any of the ones mentioned in the OP because they are much more difficult to successfully hit with. Which is how all proc sets should be. These magicka proc sets need to be brought in line with the stamina ones; especially Zaan.

Strider__Roshin

BNOC wrote: »

Which proc sets were weaker than Skoria?

Both Red Mountain, and Viper have less burst potential than Skoria. And though Selenes' and Veli hit harder; they were more difficult to land, and they didn't auto-target your opponent like Skoria; not to mention Skoria can't be dodged.

Emma_Overload

Zaan has finally started showing up in the Imperial City, and it's worse than I expected...

Why? Because most of the builds using it are tryhard STAMINA builds!

LOL, it's like these guys are so mad that Viper and all those OP stamina monster sets got nerfed, they couldn't wait for another proc meta to emerge, even if it meant using a magicka set.

Qbiken

Only one I find difficult to deal with is Caluurion, the other one I´ve 0 issues with.

Strider__Roshin

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zaan has finally started showing up in the Imperial City, and it's worse than I expected...

Why? Because most of the builds using it are tryhard STAMINA builds!

LOL, it's like these guys are so mad that Viper and all those OP stamina monster sets got nerfed, they couldn't wait for another proc meta to emerge, even if it meant using a magicka set.

This seems to be the prevailing thought process of the community. It's only bad if stamina uses it. This magicka can do no evil tribalism is quite unhealthy for the game.

I'm not defending the stam proc sets. They were rightfully nerfed, but these magicka ones are overdue for adjustments. I'm not suggesting that we reduce the damage of these sets, but to change the way they function to maintain their usefulness in PvE, but makes it much more difficult to land against a player (similar to how they changed Selenes').

I have a suggestion for each:

1) Skoria: when it procs the position of the target it proc'd on is now static with a red AoE present. After one second it will land at the appointed location. This gives the players the opportunity to get out of the way if they react quickly enough.

2) Caluurion: when this ability procs the user will glow brightly for one second then the projectile will be released. This gives melee combatants the opportunity to react. Currently this set is an amped version of Viper.

3) Zaan: When this set procs a pillar of flame will come down (notifying everyone that this set has proc'd). From this pillar the beam from Zaan will come forth to attack the target it proc'd on. The beam no longer comes from the user, but from this beam; giving the person on the receiving end the opportunity to get away.

Anethum

Daus wrote: »

I have a suggestion for each:

1) Skoria: when it procs the position of the target it proc'd on is now static with a red AoE present. After one second it will land at the appointed location. This gives the players the opportunity to get out of the way if they react quickly enough.

2) Caluurion: when this ability procs the user will glow brightly for one second then the projectile will be released. This gives melee combatants the opportunity to react. Currently this set is an amped version of Viper.

3) Zaan: When this set procs a pillar of flame will come down (notifying everyone that this set has proc'd). From this pillar the beam from Zaan will come forth to attack the target it proc'd on. The beam no longer comes from the user, but from this beam; giving the person on the receiving end the opportunity to get away.

+++ esp about Zaan, beam from stone ball will be more healthy and it should give a time to react, set do too big damage and should give adequate time to react
@ZOS_GIna_Bruno GIve an attention to such sets please. It was a big trouble year ago with procsets, and now in battlegrounds with no nocp system they work too effective same as viper, selene, red mountain when they were practically unavoidable.

MurderMostFoul

Zaan is over-tuned.

While there is a narrow window to counter it shortly after the proc, sometimes you just don't have the opportunity. And once those damage tics ramp up, it's plain easy mode for your opponent.

My suggestions:
Like other proc sets, insert a delay before the damage starts, maybe one second. The beam will link you to the Zaan user immediately upon proccing to telegraph the damage, but the damage dealing is delayed by one second, giving you a more reasonable window to counter. This change will also not negatively impact the set's PvE performance.

BNOC

Daus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Which proc sets were weaker than Skoria?

Both Red Mountain, and Viper have less burst potential than Skoria. And though Selenes' and Veli hit harder; they were more difficult to land, and they didn't auto-target your opponent like Skoria; not to mention Skoria can't be dodged.

You're now comparing 5 set's to an MS whilst acknowledging that the actual stamina MS's were always more powerful.

Selenes and Veli were more difficult to land for who? They VERY often landed as part of a gap closer-stun combo and originated at the attacker who was on top of you; with that, auto-targeting was kinda built in and you actually had some control over who it hit.

You have little control over Skorias destination once there's multiple targets (granted, AOE) and whilst it can be strong in 1v1, there are better, more powerful options.

Zaan needs tuned down big time.

Arkangeloski

BNOC wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

Which proc sets were weaker than Skoria?

Both Red Mountain, and Viper have less burst potential than Skoria. And though Selenes' and Veli hit harder; they were more difficult to land, and they didn't auto-target your opponent like Skoria; not to mention Skoria can't be dodged.

You're now comparing 5 set's to an MS whilst acknowledging that the actual stamina MS's were always more powerful.

Selenes and Veli were more difficult to land for who? They VERY often landed as part of a gap closer-stun combo and originated at the attacker who was on top of you; with that, auto-targeting was kinda built in and you actually had some control over who it hit.

You have little control over Skorias destination once there's multiple targets (granted, AOE) and whilst it can be strong in 1v1, there are better, more powerful options.

Zaan needs tuned down big time.

Big diference Selene used to be a sound cue like skoria then u saw the bear on you, kinda like skoria but if you were a smart cookie you would rolldoge after the grawl, it had a counterplay...skoria does not! but yet the bear got a big red cone and a nice delay added to it... the only way i get hit with a selene is either x v 1 or if im all out of stam and cc'd (im going to die anyway) in that instance it does not matter imo.

Then people complained about 2.3k viper procs every 4 sec... ahhh people can time burst? awww sooo broken!, but hey let's back bar or front bar big caluurion so i make sure proc it when i want line up my burst with it double standards my friend! Zaan its ok i guess if u r a nb, inv pots or purge i can live with that . i find funny u dont see people complaining about this sets as much as people did with selene/viper/velidreth lol, either way i dont use procs and i wish they were all gone for good

Datolite

Proc sets aren't bear as bad as they used to be. They could use a tweak here andthere, but at least we're not seeing viper/Selene/red mountain combos anymore.

Slack

The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak

Thogard

Slack wrote: »

The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak

Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.

Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.

brandonv516

Thogard wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak

Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.

Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.

I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.

Thogard

brandonv516 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak

Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.

Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.

I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.

The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.

Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.

Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of

Anethum

its more not about shame from others i think, but...lazy setups, your work with procmetas became very straight and boring.
Its like to start use machinegun instead of mastering your accuracy with rifle, i see this from such perpective.
u get profits-ap from this when close, but your tools for this - very lazy way, not good for selfrespect at first

testd4n1

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zaan has finally started showing up in the Imperial City, and it's worse than I expected...

Why? Because most of the builds using it are tryhard STAMINA builds!

LOL, it's like these guys are so mad that Viper and all those OP stamina monster sets got nerfed, they couldn't wait for another proc meta to emerge, even if it meant using a magicka set.

Its because it outperforms any helm set, in PvE or PvP. Yes, we have to use a magicka set...

Strider__Roshin

I usually see 1-2 Skoria procs on my death recap every time I die in BGs. It's clearly over performing.

AntonShan

>X killed me
>It's clearly over performing

/thread

Qbiken

AntonShan wrote: »

>X killed me
>It's clearly over performing

/thread

Quoted for truth

Galalin

Daus wrote: »

I usually see 1-2 Skoria procs on my death recap every time I die in BGs. It's clearly over performing.

Statements like this really show the different ages of folks on here, the level of reasoning they can handle. Can you explain what you mean by this and how it supports you standpoint or was this meant to be an utterly ridiculous, provoking statement as i was hoping and not sure why you would want ppl to see it.

This set is over performing. PPl calling for its complete removal are overacting much like your statement. The way i see it proc sets should help make a new or less experienced player compensate to be more competitive but should not be powerful enough to grossly tip the scales where skill is removed and not rewarded.

Some adjustment to damage and it will be fine.

Strider__Roshin

AntonShan wrote: »

>X killed me
>It's clearly over performing

/thread

Underperforming abilities very seldomly kill people.

But when something is being used ubiquitously that doesn't have adequate counterplay; yeah that makes it over performing.

Strider__Roshin

Galalin wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I usually see 1-2 Skoria procs on my death recap every time I die in BGs. It's clearly over performing.

Statements like this really show the different ages of folks on here, the level of reasoning they can handle. Can you explain what you mean by this and how it supports you standpoint or was this meant to be an utterly ridiculous, provoking statement as i was hoping and not sure why you would want ppl to see it.

This set is over performing. PPl calling for its complete removal are overacting much like your statement. The way i see it proc sets should help make a new or less experienced player compensate to be more competitive but should not be powerful enough to grossly tip the scales where skill is removed and not rewarded.

Some adjustment to damage and it will be fine.

I'm not asking for it to have a damage nerf, but I would like it to receive the same treatment that Selenes' received. A red AoE, and I would like its determined destination to be static rather than attached to the target.

Vaoh

The set designers in this game are some of the most boring I have ever seen. These procs are all they know. Sad but true.

Galalin

Daus wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I usually see 1-2 Skoria procs on my death recap every time I die in BGs. It's clearly over performing.

Statements like this really show the different ages of folks on here, the level of reasoning they can handle. Can you explain what you mean by this and how it supports you standpoint or was this meant to be an utterly ridiculous, provoking statement as i was hoping and not sure why you would want ppl to see it.

This set is over performing. PPl calling for its complete removal are overacting much like your statement. The way i see it proc sets should help make a new or less experienced player compensate to be more competitive but should not be powerful enough to grossly tip the scales where skill is removed and not rewarded.

Some adjustment to damage and it will be fine.

I'm not asking for it to have a damage nerf, but I would like it to receive the same treatment that Selenes' received. A red AoE, and I would like its determined destination to be static rather than attached to the target.

That in itself would be a huge damage nerf, I would say more than 50% if i had to guess. Now if the damage and time to hit was the same between the 2 sets I don't feel that you would be asking to much. Personally I agree that there should be an indicator but its already blockable and falls right inline with the changes they made to block/dodge so i respectfully would disagree. That doesn't make me right though.

CO_Gibbs

Thogard wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Slack wrote: »

The Zaan+caluurion+soul assoult blades are going strong in BGs. And for the cooldown there is cloak

Bad players need to be able to get kills somehow or they’d quit the game.

Eventually they’ll be shamed into playing something more skill based. And what they’ll find as they improve is that the more skill-based the build, the more adaptable their play style can be and the more effective they’ll be in various situations.

I very much like the Zaan and SA combo on my NB and don't feel the slightest bit ashamed. I'm pretty sure a message here or there isn't going to get me to change my mind either.

The shame won’t come from people you kill. It’ll come from people you group with. Eventually you’ll realize that being relevant only once every 30s and having to hide in between makes you useless in groups. A proc set providing most of your dmg means your burst windows are fairly unpredictable which makes you A bad teammate.

Proc set dmg means you’ll be strong against solos, but you’ll be useless against any semi-organized group. Also useless in objective play. If you want to group up with good people they will reject you because you provide nothing to the group, and THAT is where the shame will come from.

Salt messages from enemies are nothing to be ashamed of

Exactly. There's a certain sorc that is always in BGs who's a decent player, but he recently put on Zaans and Caluurian and I can only assume he's achieved supreme lazymode.

There's a very good DK I run with in BGs regularly, his team is up against my semi premade last night, prior to match he sends me a tell acknowledging ahead of time one of his guys wearing zaans. Granted, he said the player was newish and probably needed it. But that just shows why these sets exist and why competent players get frustrated by continuously dealing with them.

They exist to bridge the gap between players who understand their rotations and can adapt on the fly in combat, and players who are just getting their feet wet, or are too lazy to figure out the mechanics of pvp.

Make Zaans suffer the same LOS penalties as all other ranged attacks, and that's a start. It could even level it out an acceptable place in pvp. As it sits now, no self respecting player should use this set and not admit that they are phoning it in.

Thogard

If zaan worked well against the infestation of Stam NBs I’d be all for it.

But of all the classes, Stam NB has the best suite of counters for it.

I’m excited for sloads. It’s cheese for sure but it’ll help with this overpopulation problem. Darn NBs are breeding like rabbits.

Strider__Roshin

Thogard wrote: »

If zaan worked well against the infestation of Stam NBs I’d be all for it.

But of all the classes, Stam NB has the best suite of counters for it.

I’m excited for sloads. It’s cheese for sure but it’ll help with this overpopulation problem. Darn NBs are breeding like rabbits.

Though I don't think Nightblades are as overpopulated as you're portraying, I'm glad I won't have to invest in detection pots anymore

PhoenixGrey

Proc sets are one of the ways to balance mag classes against stam in no cp. Mag is currently severely gimped in no cp due to lack of stam which means no roll dodge and bad mobility.

Even though I do not use them nor support them there are a necessary evil atm.