Why hasn’t cash for gold been addressed? (Crown store gifting)

JasonSilverSpring

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Danikat

One possibility is that this just automates our end of the gifting system which has been in the game for months. Under the current system you make sure you have the crowns, then contact Support and give them the name of the item and the name of the person to gift it to and they do the trade.

For all we know now this system still sends a support ticket to be approved before the trade goes through.

That would be a pretty effective way to catch and stop gold sellers (and buyers) without having to do anything they're not already doing.

RouDeR

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

Aliyavana

I hope they put guidelines of what is and isn't allowed

driosketch

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I was under the impression that in order to gift something from the store, you have to have a person in mind at the time you buy it, so the item ends up getting sent automatically. I didn't think it was possible to keep an item for a length of time and then give (sell) it to the highest bidder at a later date, which would create a problem because of people buying limited-time items to resell. I haven't tried it out on the test server, though, so I can't tell you for sure.

The system is on PTS right now, so maybe someone can try it out there and tell us. I'd do it, but none of my friends play ESO, so I wouldn't have anyone to gift it to.

Yes, that is correct. When you make a purchase in the crown store it gives you a choice of for yourself or as a gift. If you choose a gift you provide the user name. I am pretty sure it checks if the user already has it. Then, if not, it will send to them and they have the option of accepting or rejecting. If they reject it then you have the option to gift it to someone else, but it does not appear that there is an option for a refund.

Also, they do not allow gifting of houses at this time. Not all crown store items can be gifted.

And, to gift one must have paid for ESO+ or bought crown packs and wait 30 days. This should help prevent fraud.

I haven't thought of this, but supposed you gift a limited time mount to a friend who agrees to reject it. Do you get to hold on to that item to trade for gold, or possibly cash transaction outside of the game, long after the item leaves the store?

Potential abuse of the system aside, gifting is a long requested feature. I assume ZOS doesn't want it to be used for trading, so there are a few limits in place, but it's very hard to prevent it. Even updating the TOS doesn't mean people won't get scammed. In fact it makes it easier to scam players. Who's going to report the scammer and risk a ban for violating the TOS?

JasonSilverSpring

RouDeR wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

I actually have a 4 year degree in Mathematics, but that is not the point. How many people are going to want to send gold to a stranger in the hope they gift them a mount or costume?

Danikat

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

I actually have a 4 year degree in Mathematics, but that is not the point. How many people are going to want to send gold to a stranger in the hope they gift them a mount or costume?

How many people currently send real money to some stranger on a website in the hope that they'll receive in-game items or gold? Not just in ESO but in any online game. (I'm not sure of the exact numbers but it's enough that it's an established industry, in spite of being banned in most games and often illegal too.)

There's much less risk in sending gold because if you get scammed all you've lost is the time it took you to make gold, and for some ESO players that's almost negligible.

Ley

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

I actually have a 4 year degree in Mathematics, but that is not the point. How many people are going to want to send gold to a stranger in the hope they gift them a mount or costume?

I initially thought your math was off too, then I realized you wrote 1,500,000 and 2,500,000.

Edit: and then I added an imaginary zero in my head I suppose.

PlagueSD

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

And, to gift one must have paid for ESO+ or bought crown packs and wait 30 days. This should help prevent fraud.

This is probably the #1 reason there won't be issues. You have to be ESO+ and wait 30 days (so your cc gets charged). I don't know of any goldsellers/bot accounts that are ESO+.

This also prevents new accounts on 30-day free access from being able to gift crown store items.

PlagueSD

RouDeR wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

yep, 1 too many 0's there.

should be 300g and 500g per crown respectively.

JasonSilverSpring

Danikat wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

JasonSilverSpring wrote: »

RouDeR wrote: »

PC 1 500 000 Gold - 5000 Crowns so 3000 gold per Crown
Console : 2 500 000 Gold - 5000 crowns 5000 gold per crown .

This prediction is based on the currently gold prices listed by the Ingame Sellers/Bots .
You are welcome

But, you cannot gift crowns, you can only gift crown store items. So, I just don't see the appeal here.

Oh boy , someone does not know how to do math ,
Multiply the price of the item with the Crown Value in gold and voalah !

I actually have a 4 year degree in Mathematics, but that is not the point. How many people are going to want to send gold to a stranger in the hope they gift them a mount or costume?

How many people currently send real money to some stranger on a website in the hope that they'll receive in-game items or gold? Not just in ESO but in any online game. (I'm not sure of the exact numbers but it's enough that it's an established industry, in spite of being banned in most games and often illegal too.)

There's much less risk in sending gold because if you get scammed all you've lost is the time it took you to make gold, and for some ESO players that's almost negligible.

Yes, but that is mostly using real money to get gold or items that could be bought with gold.

Here they would have to buy something from the crown store that the gold seller has not already received from someone else. I just don't see it happening in bulk.

I could see someone with a lot of gold but not real money wanting to send gold for a crown store item. That is where scams could happen if someone posts in zone chat wanting to trade gold for the item.

I just don't see the gold sellers getting involved.

Azuramoonstar

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

With the upcoming crown store gifting, I know we’re in for zone chat full of “buying new senche mount 2 million gold” etc

Meaning people will give their gold to others for pulling out their credit card. Which is essentially gold selling or cash for gold. I’m very surprised this hasn’t been mentioned or discussed yet.

Thoughts?

ff14 has cash shop gifting, and i rarely to mainly never seen this happen. Most people don't stoop to rmt due to negativity with rmt, and how bad a ga,es econ gets (ff11 had a bad rmt issue that crashed every servers economy)

If you see it report it for rmt. ff14 had 1 case of this, when it came to the wedding item (had to pay real money for both players to start the wedding quest due to all the perks it had) ppl tried selling them for in-game money but was stopped very quickly.

rmt is still an issue in ff14, but ppl rarely to never do this.

If you see it report it, as it is rmt and report able offense.

Azuramoonstar

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

i hope we can sell crown store items for gold and it be allowed, and not bannable.
i am a pvp player, so i am allways broke and need Gold.
in all the other MMO's i have played they allways allowed buying items in the cash shop and selling them to other players, i hope eso does the same and that it's not something i get into trouble for.

no mmo does this. If your broke, go make gold -_- this mmo is easy at making gold just join the thieves guild on a character and steal anything/everything.

Ohtimbar

I think this is mostly useful to friends and guildies, and as such it doesn't bother me at all. I plan to make use of it myself, but not with randos in zone chat.

Sting864

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

With the upcoming crown store gifting, I know we’re in for zone chat full of “buying new senche mount 2 million gold” etc

Meaning people will give their gold to others for pulling out their credit card. Which is essentially gold selling or cash for gold. I’m very surprised this hasn’t been mentioned or discussed yet.

Thoughts?

I'm not real worried, because the fact that there's another currency (Cash for crowns; crowns for gold...) makes it that much tougher to turn a profit....

Vehlir

Point blank, it should be against the rules in the ToS. Otherwise you are opening up a HUGE world of impossible to realistically monitor scamming. There WILL be hundreds of scams a day, their ticket system getting absolutely flooded each & every day. And when you involve REAL LIFE money into the situation it's MUCH harder to ignore. You can bet if Joe Schmo uses his Credit Card to buy some crowns to sell on an ESO where all this is legal, and get's scammed, he's going to be raising hell and/or activating Charge-Backs on his card (A BIG issue). A huge mess the game would be smart to avoid.

Never mind the message it sends to your community/economy.

It's essentially converting IRL cash to In-game currency. Cash > Crowns > Coins. Brand new accounts could literally become richer then veteran players with years of playtime in less then an hour with the swipe of CC.

In any other game, we'd call that P2W. It'd be hypocritical to not call it that here.


Let's face it, players & bots will try and sell Crown Items irregardless of whether it's illegal or not, but they should come out adamantly against it, and make it illegal in their TOS with a no questions asked policy to this. For the game's sake, and for protecting themselves.

And it should include a few of basic precautions during it's initial rollout:

1) Both accounts must be on each other's friends list/Guildmate for AT LEAST 30 days. Makes it so you can't just spam /zone or some private forum, meet up and sell your cash. For those who sell, they'll have to wait a month. After all, this system was introduced for FRIENDS to gift items to each other so it should not be an issue, while acting as a bit of a buffer for the rule breakers.

2) A Hard Cap limit as to how many items an account can Gift in a month. Say 15 or so items a month. If you're truely using the Gifting system as intended, 15 is PLENTY. Personally I'd go even lower at around 10, but we'll be generous with it.

3) Any attempted sales you make is against the ToS, therefore making ZoS NOT responsible for any scams/wrong doings either side commits.

Azuramoonstar

Vehlir wrote: »

Point blank, it should be against the rules in the ToS. Otherwise you are opening up a HUGE world of impossible to realistically monitor scamming. There WILL be hundreds of scams a day, their ticket system getting absolutely flooded each & every day. And when you involve REAL LIFE money into the situation it's MUCH harder to ignore. You can bet if Joe Schmo uses his Credit Card to buy some crowns to sell on an ESO where all this is legal, and get's scammed, he's going to be raising hell and/or activating Charge-Backs on his card (A BIG issue). A huge mess the game would be smart to avoid.

Never mind the message it sends to your community/economy.

It's essentially converting IRL cash to In-game currency. Cash > Crowns > Coins. Brand new accounts could literally become richer then veteran players with years of playtime in less then an hour with the swipe of CC.

In any other game, we'd call that P2W, it'd be hypocritical to not call it that here.


Let's face it, players & bots will try and sell Crown Items irregardless of whether it's illegal or not, but they should come out adamantly against it, and make it illegal in their TOS with a no questions asked policy to this. For the game's sake, and for protecting themselves.

And it should include a couple of basic precautions during it's initial rollout:

1) Both accounts must be on each other's friends list/Guildmate for AT LEAST 30 days. Makes it so you can't just spam /zone or some private forum, meet up and sell your cash. For those who sell, they'll have to wait a month. After all, this system was introduced for FRIENDS to gift items to each other so it should not be an issue, while acting as a bit of a buffer for the rule breakers.

2) Any attempted sales you make is against the ToS, therefore making any involved parties solely responsible for whatever items/money they lose partaking in illegal activities.

ff14 has gifting in there cash shop, never seen a scam. Only time i've seen people try to sell cash shop tems for gold was the wedding bracelets but that was frowned upon quick. It never happen before or since.

ff14 does have a bad rmt issue with gold sellers spamming /say and /shout chat often.

Horker

im gonna buy myself with goverment study money into the top tier gold billionaires huehuehuehuehuehue

but [snip] no if this is a thing, then all the other pricings will raise aswell ill tell ya...
since everyone is prob gonna get arround 2m gold each month lets say on average. so ppl will raise the overall price of all items.. wich is kinda okay for players withouth the money to buy gold if they sell their stuff overpriced, but its super bad for new players etc to be totally overwhelmed by insane gold pricings on just a smiple 2 hour witchmother brew costing 5k each for example...

[Edited to remove profanity]

anitajoneb17_ESO

I have more money ingame than I could possibly ever spend.
I don't want to spend money on crowns , so all I spend are my ESO+ crowns.
Sometimes however there's stuff I'd like to have in the crown store. I may give gold to someone who needs it in exchange for that crown store item.
I doubt that would make a "goldseller" out of me ? Would it ? I mean, my real life bank account would not benefit from it.

Sicsoo

Danikat wrote: »

One possibility is that this just automates our end of the gifting system which has been in the game for months. Under the current system you make sure you have the crowns, then contact Support and give them the name of the item and the name of the person to gift it to and they do the trade.

For all we know now this system still sends a support ticket to be approved before the trade goes through.

That would be a pretty effective way to catch and stop gold sellers (and buyers) without having to do anything they're not already doing.

wow i didn't even know they do this. basically this would avoid them a lot of work and surely makes the thing more streamlined for players.
if it is a controlled environment, it's just for good.

Azuramoonstar

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I have more money ingame than I could possibly ever spend.
I don't want to spend money on crowns , so all I spend are my ESO+ crowns.
Sometimes however there's stuff I'd like to have in the crown store. I may give gold to someone who needs it in exchange for that crown store item.
I doubt that would make a "goldseller" out of me ? Would it ? I mean, my real life bank account would not benefit from it.

it is rmt. which is real money trading, where you spend real money for in game goods/gold.

someone buying a cash shop item, and you buying it for gold is rmt as they are spending real money to earn in game gold.

It is a ban-able offence.

Mureel

Violynne wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

Meaning people will give their gold to others for pulling out their credit card. Which is essentially gold selling or cash for gold.

No, it's not. There is no cash transaction between the buyer and seller.

Buyer fronts the gold, seller buys the mount. Trade is established. Provided there's no scam between the transaction, everyone wins.

For ZoS, they're well aware this is going to happen because money makes people and companies do stupid, stupid things. ZoS probably already has their "Your fault. Shut up and leave us alone." auto-replies on these types of scam reports.

Most reasonable people would say, "Not interested."

I don't know about most, but I sure wouldn't put my real world cash up on someone's offer inside a game. The last thing I'd want is a surplus of unaccepted gifts.

Now, if I know you and I know why you can't/won't buy Crowns, I'll be much more open.

Otherwise, nope. Not interested.

Since ZOS sends the item, you as the crowns seller can get screwed for the cost, if the recipient doesn't pony up the gold. Same as: you could agree to buy the item for somebody, and keep their gold and be all LOL!

If I ever did that, I'd do it for good friends, but that's it.

Imhotep71

Stuff from the crown store should be sellable in game. Player 1 plays the game obsessively but has no job but is an ingame 1 percenter, player 2 has job plays casually and is broke af in game. Win, win for both parties and it gives you an IN GAME option for crown stuff in case it wasnt already there.

I gots my flame suit on though cause Im sure some of you are going to be raging about my comment here.

heaven13

Mureel wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

Meaning people will give their gold to others for pulling out their credit card. Which is essentially gold selling or cash for gold.

No, it's not. There is no cash transaction between the buyer and seller.

Buyer fronts the gold, seller buys the mount. Trade is established. Provided there's no scam between the transaction, everyone wins.

For ZoS, they're well aware this is going to happen because money makes people and companies do stupid, stupid things. ZoS probably already has their "Your fault. Shut up and leave us alone." auto-replies on these types of scam reports.

Most reasonable people would say, "Not interested."

I don't know about most, but I sure wouldn't put my real world cash up on someone's offer inside a game. The last thing I'd want is a surplus of unaccepted gifts.

Now, if I know you and I know why you can't/won't buy Crowns, I'll be much more open.

Otherwise, nope. Not interested.

Since ZOS sends the item, you as the crowns seller can get screwed for the cost, if the recipient doesn't pony up the gold. Same as: you could agree to buy the item for somebody, and keep their gold and be all LOL!

If I ever did that, I'd do it for good friends, but that's it.

I'm assuming you mean if you ever did crown item gifting, you'd only do it for friends.

First read though made it look like you'd only agree to buy an item for good friends then keep their gold. Man, with friends like that...!

Mureel

heaven13 wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

N0TPLAYER2 wrote: »

Meaning people will give their gold to others for pulling out their credit card. Which is essentially gold selling or cash for gold.

No, it's not. There is no cash transaction between the buyer and seller.

Buyer fronts the gold, seller buys the mount. Trade is established. Provided there's no scam between the transaction, everyone wins.

For ZoS, they're well aware this is going to happen because money makes people and companies do stupid, stupid things. ZoS probably already has their "Your fault. Shut up and leave us alone." auto-replies on these types of scam reports.

Most reasonable people would say, "Not interested."

I don't know about most, but I sure wouldn't put my real world cash up on someone's offer inside a game. The last thing I'd want is a surplus of unaccepted gifts.

Now, if I know you and I know why you can't/won't buy Crowns, I'll be much more open.

Otherwise, nope. Not interested.

Since ZOS sends the item, you as the crowns seller can get screwed for the cost, if the recipient doesn't pony up the gold. Same as: you could agree to buy the item for somebody, and keep their gold and be all LOL!

If I ever did that, I'd do it for good friends, but that's it.

I'm assuming you mean if you ever did crown item gifting, you'd only do it for friends.

First read though made it look like you'd only agree to buy an item for good friends then keep their gold. Man, with friends like that...!

Ahahaha! Yes if I ever gifted for gold (I'd be more apt to do it as a gift, tbh) it would only be to a good friend.

huntgod_ESO

The people concerned about this need to remember the term caveat emptor.

There are ZERO protections for buyers and sellers and am confident that complaining to ZOS will at best get you a "not our problem" email and at worst an account ban for violating some aspect of the TOS.

To utilize the gifting system in this way requires trust and these transactions are the equivalent of a guy in a trenchcoat coming up to you on the street and offering to sell you a Rolex for cheap.

poleth1984

would be nice for Zos to give an official comment on this. Allowed or not.

Viscous119

Lol this thread is funny. You all crying about gold selling and gifting. Instead of crying about a potential problem. I'm going to solve it for you all (and ZoS if they are listening). Which is...LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF GIFTS PER ACCOUNT on a monthly basis..Duh. So now, the discussion should about how many Gifts per account per month.

dannymcgr81b14_ESO

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/417563/zos-official-response-on-whether-trading-gold-for-crowns-crown-store-items-is-allowed/p1

DanteYoda

Its gifting.. And open to scamming.. but in the long run does it really matter..

A lot of entitled people seem rather upset that others can get what they got for gold.. Worry less about others Worry more about yourselves..