Material Gathering

Vandellia

Currently the quality level of materials gathered is dependent on two criteria the players actual level/players actual craft level and the skill level (skill point assigned) . With this update this is going to make an already tedious task a slog thru hell. If you are level 50+ you will get 50 percent low(current skill level) nodes and 50 percent player level nodes. To me this is unacceptable if anything mat gathering should be based on skill level paid for alone.(this includes surveys as well) as a compromise position mat gathering should be current tier bought and the next tier not paid for. as an example when gathering mats on a fully leveled character means found resources will be rubidite ore and what ever tier blacksmith skill i have slotted. this will make jewlery leveling painful beyond reason.

VaranisArano

I went farming for jewelry mats on the PTS and it was pretty simple. 50% were the low level mat, i.e. what I could actually use according to my jewelry crafting level like if I were to make jewelry for writs. 50% were the platinum mat, i.e. what I can wear according to my level.

I didn't find it to be painful, especially I wont use the low level mat unless I do writs to raise jewelry crafting or trade jewelry for decon and I will want to stockpile the max level mat for when I can use it to make jewelry or to send it to a jewelry crafter when I order a set.

Haquor

My main crafter is looking forward to the challenge.

Ill make the decision after summerset is live for a coupe of weeks how painful it is.

pdebie64b16_ESO

If it is easy it it no fun (And alot in this game is allready to easy)

commdt

Vandellia wrote: »

Currently the quality level of materials gathered is dependent on two criteria the players actual level/players actual craft level and the skill level (skill point assigned) . With this update this is going to make an already tedious task a slog thru hell. If you are level 50+ you will get 50 percent low(current skill level) nodes and 50 percent player level nodes. To me this is unacceptable if anything mat gathering should be based on skill level paid for alone.(this includes surveys as well) as a compromise position mat gathering should be current tier bought and the next tier not paid for. as an example when gathering mats on a fully leveled character means found resources will be rubidite ore and what ever tier blacksmith skill i have slotted. this will make jewlery leveling painful beyond reason.

I have 50 in all tradeskills on all 15 characters and have never leveled tradeskill by crafting, I bet no one ever has. The only way to level skill always was deconning things (which is nonsence honestly, but this is ZOS), so it wont be a problem at all

FrancisCrawford

commdt wrote: »

show previous quotes

Vandellia wrote: »

Currently the quality level of materials gathered is dependent on two criteria the players actual level/players actual craft level and the skill level (skill point assigned) . With this update this is going to make an already tedious task a slog thru hell. If you are level 50+ you will get 50 percent low(current skill level) nodes and 50 percent player level nodes. To me this is unacceptable if anything mat gathering should be based on skill level paid for alone.(this includes surveys as well) as a compromise position mat gathering should be current tier bought and the next tier not paid for. as an example when gathering mats on a fully leveled character means found resources will be rubidite ore and what ever tier blacksmith skill i have slotted. this will make jewlery leveling painful beyond reason.

I have 50 in all tradeskills on all 15 characters and have never leveled tradeskill by crafting, I bet no one ever has. The only way to level skill always was deconning things (which is nonsence honestly, but this is ZOS), so it wont be a problem at all

Provisioning and alchemy say Hi.

But yeah -- it doesn't sound as if leveling the skill line or trait research will be the big problem, except for the first couple months. The materials themselves will be.

In particular, it seems that it will be hugely expensive to upgrade the quality of jewelry, for very little benefit.

commdt

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Provisioning and alchemy say Hi.

But yeah -- it doesn't sound as if leveling the skill line or trait research will be the big problem, except for the first couple months. The materials themselves will be.

of cource if a skill provide deconning

Slick_007

commdt wrote: »

I have 50 in all tradeskills on all 15 characters and have never leveled tradeskill by crafting, I bet no one ever has. The only way to level skill always was deconning things (which is nonsence honestly, but this is ZOS), so it wont be a problem at all

how much was that bet?

Magenpie

I whole heartedly agree with the OPs main point, although not with the solution. Sorry ^^.

Generally, I love crafting in MMOs. I usually have a 6 or seven alts, and I like being self-sufficient, making my own gear - basically using the game's crafting system as part of the fun of playing.

The ESO crafting system is frustrating, tiresome and not part of the fun at all. I watch crafting/mat gathering/auction house/guild hall threads with interest, I've thought about it a lot, and I still haven't seen any good logical reasons for defending the system as it stands.

As far as mat gathering is concerned, having mats fixed to the old 'zone levels' doesn't disadvantage anyone. It means players like myself can gather mats of all levels, and make gear for ourselves. People who enjoy making gear for their guildies can also do so more easily. Those people who want to sell either resources or gear via guild traders can still do so. It would put the fun back into crafting.

The only arguments in favour the system boil down to, 'I do it this way, I'm fine with it, I have no interest in your problem or opinion.'

I think One Tamriel was the best thing to happen to ESO, but mat gathering needs to cater too ALL types of gameplay and ALL players - new and veteran.

Beardimus

VaranisArano wrote: »

I went farming for jewelry mats on the PTS and it was pretty simple. 50% were the low level mat, i.e. what I could actually use according to my jewelry crafting level like if I were to make jewelry for writs. 50% were the platinum mat, i.e. what I can wear according to my level.

I didn't find it to be painful, especially I wont use the low level mat unless I do writs to raise jewelry crafting or trade jewelry for decon and I will want to stockpile the max level mat for when I can use it to make jewelry or to send it to a jewelry crafter when I order a set.

Sounds spot on to me.

Magenpie

@Beardimus - it's fine if you simply want to level your crafting and/or only cater to yourself at your level.

If you want to make anything outside of those material ranges, (for an alt for example) it's a complete pain in the bum.

Beardimus

I don't see it that way, if it only gave you top tier yes. This way you get a range. Better for helping alts / others.

This same worry was speed when OneTam changed how other mats work and the fear was unfounded.

Beardimus

@Magenpie I'm sorry i just read your post. And I'm surprised you still feel that way about mats post OneTam. As i worried too but within weeks could see i was flooded with multi tier mats from Writs.

I craft fot whole guilds and prefer the system now for helping others. It means i don't have to spend time porting to a zone and picking mats up. And likewise if short i can send the player to so that if needed but that's rare as have mats in abundance now.

Magenpie

@Beardimus - Hi there and thanks for your response.

I would be happy with 50% Skill Level(or Player Level?)/50% Zone Level Fixed materials, because at least you could CHOOSE where to go if you wanted a specific resource. I find the guild traders aren't very useful for mid range materials, and I have to travel around loads of those in my search for materials. At least with mats fixed to a zone, I could go there with the certainty of finding what I needed eventually.

The way the system works at the moment, you're completely stuck at the skill/character level you're at, and at the mercy of guild traders, who may or may not have what you want. I don't mind paying gold for materials, but spending ages, porting around, doing Guild Trader RNG isn't my idea of fun. I would like the option to gather what I want myself at any time I need it. I really don't see a downside with this solution.

I do know about the addons and the website btw, but in my experience, they haven't helped me with what I want to buy, and so aren't useful information resources for me.

By having at least 50% Zone Fixed Materials, everyone gets what they want somehow.

commdt

Slick_007 wrote: »

show previous quotes

commdt wrote: »

I have 50 in all tradeskills on all 15 characters and have never leveled tradeskill by crafting, I bet no one ever has. The only way to level skill always was deconning things (which is nonsence honestly, but this is ZOS), so it wont be a problem at all

how much was that bet?

Not much actually. I guess something like 300k for 9-tier mats + some for intricate items when I lost patience, but that given I also had my own mats.
I went crafting 9-tier items on my main and deconning them on twinks until they have 40 in tradeskill. Because with low tradeskill you get absolutely the same inspiration from void-, rubedit-, white or epic or even intricate items. So this were void daggers, void belts and nightwood bows until 40. Then I deconned rubedite items and did crafting dailies to level them to 50 one by one. Rubedite items I got mostly from farming Armiger or running dungeons and when all 15 got 50 in first equip tradeskill (it was clothing) I went to shopping spree for intricate items for other skills.
For enchant i spent exactly 0 gold as I had enough own mats, but it would be cheap anyway. The best way to level it is crafting blue glyphs with jehade/rejera on main and decon on twinks. It is smth like 20 gp per glyph and plenty of inspiration, the highest Inspiration/gp rate
Cooking is dirt-cheap and not worth mentioning
And the best way to level alchemy is to craft poisons (more insp then potions) of highest level available with mudcrab chitin and spider egg. The sum of this 2 is the cheapest. I leveled alchemy this way to 40 and then learned all effects on all ingredients for better voucher drop rate, ended up with smth like 48-49 in Alchemy


The mai9n question about Jewelry is the following. Does reward for daily writs cover its cost? Can someone check this?

Beardimus

Do you do all the daily crafting Writs @Magenpie? As the bulk of my low tier stuff i get from the satchels which i think is why they brought then in.

I also ask in my small mates guild for any writ folks just after top tier stuff / tannins to give me their satchels etc. People without craft bag often vendor them lol.

I do see your concern as i worried too pre OneTam but found it all worked out.

Also if you join 3-4 guilds with traders you can search for mats from your bank across them. And also just text msg those guilds as folks often don't list low teir stuff but have it in abundance.

Personally, i prefer that to wasting game time harvesting mats. But i do wee where you are coming from

Zulera301

as important and expensive as those low-tier mats are gonna be for a while, I like how it's currently laid out. as a max-level character, I absolutely don't mind finding Platinum, especially since by the time I hit 50, I'm sure as heck gonna need any/all the Pt I can find. haha

Asardes

I'll train the skill as I've done before: just deconstruct all the trash items that happen to drop from other activities (dungeons, quests, trials) - white, green, blue at first, then when I get the skill high enough to get the refine/deconstruct passives, purple and gold as well so I get the maximum amount of tempers possible from those. I won't bother farming any of the veins for starters since I find it too tedious, and in the first few weeks people will be camping them like there's no tomorrow. Then when I have enough base material gathered start doing writs, collecting the surveys etc. as I do just for any other profession. Crafting itself is not a priority since I have plenty of good jewelry already: all chars with dungeon & overland purple and trial set gold jewels, plenty of gold PvP ones as well; It will be tedious repeating the process over multiple characters I use as crafters but I will do it as a side activity. For me the priority is to get the new important traits researched so I can change them on existing jewelry pieces so I can make my current combos more effective (ex. re-trait Alkosh jewels to triune), or do entirely new gear combos (ex. re-trait Berserking Warrior jewels to robust).

Asardes

Magenpie wrote: »

@Beardimus - it's fine if you simply want to level your crafting and/or only cater to yourself at your level.

If you want to make anything outside of those material ranges, (for an alt for example) it's a complete pain in the bum.

No it isn't:
1) Those players can just decon the trash gear that drops from mobs, which is their level, and get enough for crafting 2 sets in less than 15 minutes. Then they could just send that to their crafter friend and have them crafted. Or they can simply gather the nodes they encounter.
2) Maximum level writs give packs of 25 lower level refined materials whenever they don't give a survey; you can just use those, or simply buy what people sell on guild stores. Before the event I had real trouble selling those for much less than their vendor price on guild stores, so the demand wasn't there to match the alleged "pain in the bum", only during the event, when people actually started doing writs on all their low level/skill characters for the reward boxes.

The system is fine as it is. I don't care if people are lazy and complain about stuff that they can solve in a few minutes just playing the game.

Merlin13KAGL

OP, so you want your non-crafters (which would be most alts, for most people) to only get tier 1 mats, or have to sink 9 extra skillpoints into a craft they're arguably never going to use?

The 50/50 is fine, as is.

Magenpie wrote: »

@Beardimus - it's fine if you simply want to level your crafting and/or only cater to yourself at your level.

If you want to make anything outside of those material ranges, (for an alt for example) it's a complete pain in the bum.

If you want anything outside of those ranges, you buy a stack from a guild trader. Writs also grant reward boxes that have varying tier mats for that same reason.

Magenpie

@Asardes - it's certainly not about being lazy - I would like to go and gather mats for myself, rather than just buy them at a guild trader. As I said in my earlier post, I'm not having great success buying the mats I want from a guild trader because many mid-range mats are few and far between.

I find deconstructing items doesn't really give me the quantities of materials I'd like.

I don't really understand the aggressive attitude. I haven't been rude or unreasonable. With my suggestion and wish, YOU would still be able to gather mats they way YOU like, and I would be able to gather and craft gear for my alts the way I would like to. Everyone wins. What's the problem?

@Merlin13KAGL - as I've just mentioned above, I've found it hard to find the mats I want from guild traders, and I would like to gather my materials for myself.

Thanks both for responding.

Edit: I meant to say, for RP purposes, I have different alts with different professions. I do my daily crafting writs on 4 characters, but frequently don't get the level of materials I need. I know I don't play the game the way you do, but isn't that why MMOs are amazing, because they cater to different types of gamers who make up a world. I'd like it if ESO worked for everyone.

Merlin13KAGL

Hirelings on non-crafting alts can help lower tier mats add up over time, as well. Worst case scenario, they all refine the same (tempers, etc) and you can sell extra.

Sadly, for Alchemy (which essentially doesn't have a level tier, except for water) and Jewlery Crafting there is no such help to be had.

Perhaps an in game method for converting higher level mats to lower level mats, or being able to craft anything from the necessary tier or higher would do the trick?

Transmute for crafting mats, downgrade option only, if you will?

Magenpie

@Merlin13KAGL - x) but why so complicated? Why can't we just gather things ourselves, as we do now, but with a 50% Skill Level or Player Level (which ever you want) and 50% Zone Fixed Level mats?

Honestly, I really think people are just taking 'a position' just 'because.' I truly can't think of a downside to my suggestion. It would reinvigorate the crafting system - and I know I'm not the only person who likes gearing up their own alts - and surely appealing to more types of player just means more people which means more money for the game.l

Please, I'm not being a troll or being aggressive or anything, but give me a single good reason why this would be a terrible idea, other than 'it's just fine the way it is.'

Merlin13KAGL

I gave an alternative, actually. It would require a Dev change, but it would eliminate the problem.

The issue with both, and with mats tiered by zone (that's how it used to be) is that the majority of zones would see zero farming activity and the remaining ones (max tier) would be overcrowded even worse than they are now. (Enchanting actually used to be separate nodes for Aspect, Potency, and and Essence runestones. Made it nice when you could ignore the color you didn't need and sprint towards the one you did.)

Of course, alternative #2 is that they could simply change to single tier mats, but still require the crafting tier to craft a certain level.

They're not going to do that because

1. It would eliminate all lower tier mats people currently have.
2. It would free up entirely too much space for those without craft bag. Lack of space, by design, is a big incentive to choose to sub ESO+. Eliminate the need for the extra room, one less need for purchasing a sub.

Unless you're actively crafting gear for others, you ultimately reach a point where there is much less need for the lower tier mats. By changing to the method they currently have, they still force the space restrictions, but it simplifies node creation on the server side ~ a (insert craft here) node is simply a (insert craft here) node.

My suggestion above would allow them to keep leveled mats but would still let you craft if you had enough of any at-tier or higher.

I don't like the "skill level paid for" alone, because then it precludes my non-crafters from being able to gather useful materials, and we end up with the opposite extreme.

The other side issue, it also meant a higher tier crafter would never have the chance at lower tier mats.

Incidentally, craft level has zero effect on the tier of node, only player level and passive unlocked level determine the outcome, 50/50. All my alts are master crafters, but I still get a mix of 50% tier one mats and 50% max top tier mats.

Allowing a mix of both allow characters to have mats they can craft with (by skill) and mats they can use (even if provided to another player) to upgrade gear they can wear.

Having the next tier not paid for renders mats you cannot use, in either case.

Merlin13KAGL

You can still gear up your own alts, btw. If they're lower level, simply have them gather the mats necessary, transfer to the bank, and have your crafter craft.

If they're not lower level (Capped), then all your alts will already have a 50% chance at getting a useful mat every single time.

Not trying to be difficult, but I really fail to see how the current system is an issue (aside from lack of hirelings in two crafts).

ghastley

Any change to the current 50/50 will have ripple effects on other parts of the game. The logic now is that your character gathers the materials they need to make their own equipment (and some players only run one) and those they need for the writs at their crafting skill, whether that's lower/higher/the same as their playing level.

The daily crafting writs match the crafting level, and ask for the best you can make, so you need the materials for those. If you got zone-levelled mats, you'd have to have zone-levelled writs. Those could then be for things you can't make, and you'd probably have to turn them in at a location in-zone again, just to make the zone dependency work. It was that way once, and it was replaced by the current system. Zone-levelled materials went with zone-levelled difficulty, which also went away. It was harder to gather higher-level materials, making a crafting alt a more difficult proposition. We don't want to go backwards.

(Except that we do still have zone-dependent materials - nirncrux, for example. It's just a different class of material, than the main one.)

Magenpie

@ghastly - hi there

There's absolutely no reason why the daily writs, or any other part of the crafting system would have to change at all. Just because the nodes change, doesn't mean the whole system has to change.

In fact, in lots of ways it would be easier to complete daily writs - if you have a character who is say at 'birch' level writs, and you've run out of mats (btw this is exactly what happened to me the other day) you could just go to a 'birch' zone and gather enough for your writ. Whereas I had to travel to about 4 different guild traders areas to actually find ANY birch, and even then I could only just get enough to complete my writ - I didn't find enough for a surplus.

Also, my 'birch' level woodcrafter never gets any birch in writ rewards, and only gets the occasional 3 or something from Hirelings.

*sobs* I'd just like to gather the materials I need, when I need them, for my characters. I really don't think I'm being outrageously unreasonable in this. x)

Edit: Actually, I realise this particular example doesn't really answer my argument - I can go and get birch with this character. Doh. Stupid me. It's when I need lower level mats that the problem arises.

Edit 2: Also just realised I'm being a complete idiot, and I've been doing it the wrong way round. Please ignore my previous posts about this. So sorry!

Vandellia

Missing the point ... You all are really missing my point....

I do craft daily's constantly on my characters, while a specific character may be maxed in craft level it is not maxed in skills. I simply do not want a 50/50 mix of mats i want only the mats for that specific level it takes at the very least 2 times as long to
gather lets say jute. i could of course only gather the Jute , which is a waste of my valuable time especially as what spawns
is a 50/50 mix and to be honest the top tier mats actually more prevalent then the lower tier are . if i run out of spider silk why in the blue blazes do i want ancestors silk.. if that toon needs spider silk for the daily and has to gather i want spider silk not anything else Is this clearer now?

Taleof2Cities

Agree, @Vandellia, I also liked nodes when they were 100% based on the crafting first passive invested.

Unfortunately, there was a vocal crowd that wanted to gather top tier mats ... even though they hadn’t spent the time or skill point investment to earn that right. So, we have this hybrid system that exists today.

Vandellia

I could also add to my wish list this as well.. as surveys are transferable between characters i would love to see the survey only allow/show mats for the tier slotted not the current 50/50 if i want high tier mats ill use a high tier capable crafter to do the survey