Solution to The Imbue Weapons Problem

Mystrius_Archaion

RoyJade wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

But it has a 2 second duration to get off a light attack in so even without weaving it works. So you are wrong there.

Except with ranged one at long range. It's 2 second between the first input and the landed hit.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I've played many other MMOs and every last one of them has true spammables that are stronger than a weaved light attack and spammable alone because they can kill the enemy without any other input. In this game, that would be force pulse for example.
Hell, Puncturing Sweep is actually a spammable here also because it is, thankfully, rather strong and helps survivability and not interruptable(through bash anyway).

I don't consider it a spammable when it actively hurts survival by either being wasted(no damage of its own, like a buff that isn't a buff) if you can't use it properly or is not like a fighting game where you're just button mashing the same button.

Spammables do not require coordination. The key word is "require".


Is Imbue Weapons usable without a light attack or is a light attack REQUIRED? Obviously light attack is required so too much coordination required to be a true spammable.

I disagree : spamming a skill doesn't require coordination. A spammable is a core skill in a dps rotation, and a dps rotation ask some coordination. A spammable is not a brainless skill that you use repetitively : you can use a spammable as a spamming skill since it's the highest damage input in one GCD, but it's not his job. A spammable is also called a filler sometimes, as the skill who is used when you does not refresh a dot/buff/debuff ; if you use it like that, you"re doing a dps rotation in order to optimize your damage, and so you need some coordination.
Thus, imbue is not a skill who can be spammed, but it's a spammable by ESO's standards. ESO's dps rotation require weaving, with imbue or with ever other spammables in the game (force pulse and sweeps included). So, including imbue as your spammable in your rotation will change nearly nothing.

Do you know why spammables are based on the word "SPAM" and why that became the word for "just doing junk"?
This is why: SPAM, meat in a can
It's a joke about how that is just "crap castoff meat byproducts smashed into a brick inside a can" and considered "poor people"/lazy food. It's considered a "poor substitute for real meat" that doesn't take any effort to make into a meal that will not be fancy.
That's where "spam emails" came from also. Those are also worthless, automated, easy to send and not worth the time trying to block rather than just deleting or creating a new free email address most of the time.

So yes, a "spam"able needs to be easy requiring no coordination to send the same exact thing out. It is "brainless".

Either that or you need to stop calling this a spammable and come up with an accurate name like "filler skill" as it fills gaps in weaves/rotations.

Force Pulse, and instant self-reliant skills like it, can still retain the "spammable" name because that is "brainless".
Weaving, or light attacking at all, is optional with Force Pulse. That is the difference between it and Imbue Weapons.

Emma_Overload

Do people really have that much trouble making light attacks connect in PvP?

I don't. Without light attack weaving, how else would I get constant ultimate regen?

Dymence

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.

Truly fantastic argumentation and reasoning

Mystrius_Archaion

Dymence wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.

Truly fantastic argumentation and reasoning

Argumentation?
Truly fantastic fake vocabulary.

Edit:
That was low of me to respond with a personal attack to a personal attack. I'm sorry.
I'll just hit that report button next time and let you get a forum mute or full on ban.

RoyJade

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Edit:
Why does anybody have a problem with it having a longer duration to get the light attack off?
Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.
It would help less capable people actually use and enjoy this skill, while providing more options and allowing for unpredictable combat, if it were more forgiving with a longer timer, like empower having a 5 second timer.
It's hard to believe they haven't made empower a 2 second timer if that was reasonable. They would have done that already if that were a good idea.

Actually, someone who want to land a burst on you in two GCD can do spammable->LA->spammable->LA. Two spammable damage + two LA damage. With the actual duration of imbue, he cans just replace one or the two spammables with imbues, and does pretty the same thing.
If you raise the cooldown by just one second, he will be able to do imbue->spammable->LA->spammable->LA. Imbue won't be on the 2 GDC you'll take damage in, and you'll be hit by one more hit who does the same damage as an another spammable. The burst is higher, far higher.
When you look at the higher bursts in pvp actually (mostly with a stun and an ultimate in it), people often are one the verge of death and heals/evade/block just in time. Now, add a new force pulse tooltip on top of that, and enjoy.

Why did you think empower was removed to every skills and moved to light attack ? Why do you think with the buff to every LA/HA in the game, they nerfed 2H scaling base attack, the weapon with a +10% damage on the next skill after a heavy attack ? Because of burst. Alway because of burst. Imbued was created with burst in mind, and try actively to not be available for more burst. One more second, and the skill will be mostly used as a burst tool.

Mystrius_Archaion

RoyJade wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Edit:
Why does anybody have a problem with it having a longer duration to get the light attack off?
Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.
It would help less capable people actually use and enjoy this skill, while providing more options and allowing for unpredictable combat, if it were more forgiving with a longer timer, like empower having a 5 second timer.
It's hard to believe they haven't made empower a 2 second timer if that was reasonable. They would have done that already if that were a good idea.

Actually, someone who want to land a burst on you in two GCD can do spammable->LA->spammable->LA. Two spammable damage + two LA damage. With the actual duration of imbue, he cans just replace one or the two spammables with imbues, and does pretty the same thing.

Somebody else already posted in another of the feedback threads why this isn't "the same thing". What I mean is, it can't replace everything. It reduces the amount of things the enemy needs to dodge, which does make it technically more bursty but more vulnerable to dodge(or evasion) with less opportunities for it to crit.

But whether it can be used in place of other things or not is beside the point of this thread.

It's not overpowered. It is not a true spammable either. So there is a benefit to using it but also a downside. It seems pretty well balanced, even though the duration is a little short for somebody like me.

Mystrius_Archaion

RoyJade wrote: »

Imbued was created with burst in mind, and try actively to not be available for more burst. One more second, and the skill will be mostly used as a burst tool.

Why?
It still only triggers once per activation.

Can I spam Destructive Touch and get multiple stacks of the DoT on an enemy? Can I spam a skill that grants Empower and use multiple Empower buffs on a single light attack? No, not on either.

Adding more duration does not improve burst potential because they still only get one instance out of it as any subsequent cast overwrites the ones before it.
Will it make it easier to burst a player down? Barely and only if they weren't skilled enough to be smart about their timing of attacks in the first place.

The real limiter of burst is how many skills they can get to land at once, as they can use all sorts of buffs well before they initiate that first skill that will alert their target.
Imbue Weapons having longer duration would not increase burst potential than it already does with a 2 second duration or would with only 1 second duration. It just means they either need to be a little closer or can't use other skills in between Imbue and the light attack which they won't do anyway if those also alert the enemy.
I'm pretty sure you can't get all that much to occur in a 1-2 second burst, with or without Imbue Weapons having a shorter or longer duration for that one light attack bonus damage. It still takes a global cooldown for the next Imbue which they can do with a shorter duration anyway.

Dymence

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.

Truly fantastic argumentation and reasoning

Argumentation?
Truly fantastic fake vocabulary.

Edit:
That was low of me to respond with a personal attack to a personal attack. I'm sorry.
I'll just hit that report button next time and let you get a forum mute or full on ban.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argumentation

Mystrius_Archaion

Dymence wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Is it because you're afraid gankers will use it? They'lll still have other ways to kill your character so this won't matter anyway.

Truly fantastic argumentation and reasoning

Argumentation?
Truly fantastic fake vocabulary.

Edit:
That was low of me to respond with a personal attack to a personal attack. I'm sorry.
I'll just hit that report button next time and let you get a forum mute or full on ban.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argumentation

So I was wrong, but that just puts you in the other category of using very underused, or new, words to put yourself above me and others because we don't recognize them.

This makes you "snooty".

Mystrius_Archaion

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Do people really have that much trouble making light attacks connect in PvP?

I don't. Without light attack weaving, how else would I get constant ultimate regen?

You can either light attack or heal or block every 9 seconds: UESP.net Wiki Ultimate
And Imbue Weapons requires hitting with a light attack in the 2 seconds from activation until the buff runs out. It's a lot more strict.


I wish magicka and stamina gains worked like ultimate regen so we didn't need to light or heavy attack really.
I also find that games have a hard time just letting us use what we find most fun and flashy because we have to use rather boring normal attacks much more often. I just want to be like Thor at the end battle of Thor Ragnarok and zap everything to toast.