How important is race choice for pve dps and such?

Joxer61
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Ok, so I went and made me a kitty DK and am a bit perplexed that I have a totally useless passive (to me at least) "Stealthy", which isn't even bundled up with something else that's useful. I mean its great if I want to be a kitty NB or something but shouldn't there at least be another benefit rolled in with for other class benefits? Or are the race passives that big of a deal? I'm sure they are with min/max'ers and my other toons are actually more in line with their respective class but for fun I went with Khajiit just to see how they played and all. In doing so have I gimped my dps? I'm not one to speed clear or do the leaderboards and such but I will be doing runs/raids/trials/ whatever they be and would like to be a decent contributor to the group. Only asking cuz its the first race I have noticed where a passive really is a complete waste on the class (DK). I mean if the % of difference is like almost a non issue I may go back and make a Lizard, cuz yea, they kinda cool but the passives felt so far removed from the class I was rolling (stamDK) that it felt like a waste. But if its not then awesome...time to make a real "dragon"knight!! ;)

(no, really.....is it an issue or no? Overall will I notice a decrease in performance if I make a class completely out of line with racial passives?) Lol, shoulda just asked that right at the start!
Edited by Joxer61 on April 28, 2018 6:32AM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Between 3-7% dps.
  • datgladiatah
    datgladiatah
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    if you're running stamina and not mechanical acuity your damage shouldn't be much different than a redguard without acuity, but khajiit don't work well with acuity at all in comparison. 10% stamina does make a big difference and it'll be even bigger when LAs scale with it
  • VaranisArano
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    Khajiit like to sneak.

    You'll be a few percentage points off the "best" race choices, but it won't prevent you from doing content as longer as you practice and execute an effective dps rotation.
  • Zordrage
    Zordrage
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    Between 3-7% dps.

    i think its closer to 10%...

    i mean... i can definietly feel the difference betwen trying to play a red Guard mag sorc and a breton mag sorc lol
    but this is just an Extreme case of 100% ignoring the racial stuff...
    Edited by Zordrage on April 28, 2018 8:57PM
  • Sogreth
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    Khajiit have a weapon crit passive though, right? While it's not Stamina, it should still be pretty decent for upping your damage. I think most races have like 1 "good" racial that could actually make a difference in your damage, but it's probably not going to be massive.

    Like Argonians get 5% extra healing. While it's nice to have, you can heal perfectly fine on any other race.
    Edited by Sogreth on April 28, 2018 9:50PM
  • Joxer61
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    Sogreth wrote: »
    Khajiit have a weapon crit passive though, right? While it's not Stamina, it should still be pretty decent for upping your damage. I think most races have like 1 "good" racial that could actually make a difference in your damage, but it's probably not going to be massive.

    Like Argonians get 5% extra healing. While it's nice to have, you can heal perfectly fine on any other race.

    Yea, the lizardlips are the one race I feel are a waste...unless you a healer (or tank maybe?) as they have like no bonuses to damage at all. Bit of a shame really as they kinda cool....but I reckon people make them work just fine if they really want to to!
  • Joxer61
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    Let me ask this....will I be gimping myself and group if I do roll a lizard for stamDk dps? I do plan to run dungeons and the like but will mostly be with guildies ( tad more forgiving)with the occasional PUG. AM I asking for kick or not to worry?
    Edited by Joxer61 on April 29, 2018 1:57PM
  • Joxer61
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    Nestor wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Let me ask this....will I be gimping myself and group if I do roll a lizard for stamDk dps? I do plan to run dungeons and the like but will mostly be with guildies ( tad more forgiving)with the occasional PUG. AM I asking for kick or not to worry?


    The best build is one you have fun with.

    You don't need BiS to run any content in this game. Outside of competitive trials for leaderboard scores you can do almost anything you want and be successful. And, even in those competitive trials, your rotation under combat has more to do with success then your build.

    You want to pull good numbers, work on your rotation combos and timings.


    Awesome! Thanks for that...very solid advice right there. If you don't enjoy the class then you wont bother to improve or have fun. Thanks for putting it into the proper perspective! ;)

    Only downside I can see with this is the dreaded PUG....getting kicked for not being meta is what made me leave GW2 (mostly) and would hate to see it happen all over again. But then that's what a Guild is for, no?
    Edited by Joxer61 on April 29, 2018 2:35PM
  • karekiz
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    It isn't going to do much at all unless you want in on top Vet trial leaderboard. All group content is doable in non BIS gear/race. As for top trial guilds I am not in one, but I am guessing by then they tell you what they need most likely anyway. You just re-roll to fill that niche.
  • RebornV3x
    RebornV3x
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    It matters I mean 10% max magic and 10% mag regen for a high elf mag dps can add up I mean I rolled around as a Nord Mag Sorc before 2.3 and had no problem in PvP or PVE but in today's game race make a considerable difference
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • AcadianPaladin
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    Nestor wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Let me ask this....will I be gimping myself and group if I do roll a lizard for stamDk dps? I do plan to run dungeons and the like but will mostly be with guildies ( tad more forgiving)with the occasional PUG. AM I asking for kick or not to worry?


    The best build is one you have fun with.

    You don't need BiS to run any content in this game. Outside of competitive trials for leaderboard scores you can do almost anything you want and be successful. And, even in those competitive trials, your rotation under combat has more to do with success then your build.

    You want to pull good numbers, work on your rotation combos and timings.

    My Bosmer magsorc dps endorses this. So does my Bosmer magplar healer. :)
    PC NA (PvE)
  • AcadianPaladin
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    Though my Bosmers lament not having tails, they do claim BiS for cute. ;)
    PC NA (PvE)
  • Joxer61
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    So....I rolled a Argo stamDK, am I going to really suck or what? On paper, cuz yea, who knows, I myself personally could totally blow, who knows? But its hard to put points into the passives when looking at them I am like....nope, does nothing for this class, why bother?
    SO I guess he will sit for now because while on one hand I am not a min/max'er I also hate being a complete waste of a toon.
  • DoobZ69
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    Don't worry about it. People will tell you you're an idiot and kick you from groups and you will suck at solo content compared to all the other vestiges around you with proper race selections. You wont even notice that money in your bank going towards a race token a couple of months from now. Keep your chin up!
  • Ragnaroek93
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    Sadly it's very important and in PvP it's even more important. Argo on stamdk is no problem tho since Argo is currently a meta race for most builds (in PvP at least).
  • Joxer61
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    Sadly it's very important and in PvP it's even more important. Argo on stamdk is no problem tho since Argo is currently a meta race for most builds (in PvP at least).


    Really?? Can you elaborate?
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Sadly it's very important and in PvP it's even more important. Argo on stamdk is no problem tho since Argo is currently a meta race for most builds (in PvP at least).


    Really?? Can you elaborate?

    The argonian potion passive is really powerful. It does wonders for your sustain across the board. It is also the reason why Argonian is the meta PVE tank race.

    To answer your question, yes race matters for PVE DPS at the extreme end of things. Most people will spit out numbers in the 5% range for raw damage. If you are only pulling 20k to begin with, you might not feel it. If you are pushing 50k in a raid setup, you absolutely feel it.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,300ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Khajiit, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR44- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Dunmer, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Orc, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer (DC)
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc, Bearona Virus - Breton

    vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Sadly it's very important and in PvP it's even more important. Argo on stamdk is no problem tho since Argo is currently a meta race for most builds (in PvP at least).


    Really?? Can you elaborate?

    The argonian potion passive is really powerful. It does wonders for your sustain across the board. It is also the reason why Argonian is the meta PVE tank race.

    To answer your question, yes race matters for PVE DPS at the extreme end of things. Most people will spit out numbers in the 5% range for raw damage. If you are only pulling 20k to begin with, you might not feel it. If you are pushing 50k in a raid setup, you absolutely feel it.

    Yea, I wont be at the extreme end for sure...unless our little guild steps up and owns it! YEa, that's not gonna happen. So, personal opinion/experience you reckon I've not gimped myself playing a StamDK as Argonion? Keep in mind pve here, and returning player but I would count myself as being new. Hopefully soon will go test on dummy or better yet in real raid/trial/ whatever they are and my skill and dps will have improved. What I don't want is to try and learn the game and class and such all over and already have handicapped myself by rolling some thing while not unheard of but surely not BIS.
    Let me ask this, is there a way/ways to make up what I lack in passives with say CP's, other traits, enchants, etc.? Or....and this is the big one.....do I just delete and start fresh beings the toon is like lvl 7? Save me all the drama of hearing about how much a noob I am and respeccin' then?!? I could always just throw up in their faces that dude HatchetHaro who SWEARS by the class, as stam Dk's and Sorc's!! Or is he even still playing? Meh...doesn't matter....
    Anyways, yea, I get that any race can play any class and do it well enough, and that's fine and all. I just like to try and do things "right" the first time out the gate and to me being able to "keep up" is what I am really after while not being heckled for the role/race I picked....sucks the fun out of it for me that does. Cheers all!

    (Lol....after walking away I came back thinking maybe I should just stick with Argo and make it the most kickass there is around!!??)
    Edited by Joxer61 on April 30, 2018 6:26PM
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    Less than what most would have you believe, yet more than it probably has a right to.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Sadly it's very important and in PvP it's even more important. Argo on stamdk is no problem tho since Argo is currently a meta race for most builds (in PvP at least).


    Really?? Can you elaborate?

    The argonian potion passive is really powerful. It does wonders for your sustain across the board. It is also the reason why Argonian is the meta PVE tank race.

    To answer your question, yes race matters for PVE DPS at the extreme end of things. Most people will spit out numbers in the 5% range for raw damage. If you are only pulling 20k to begin with, you might not feel it. If you are pushing 50k in a raid setup, you absolutely feel it.

    Yea, I wont be at the extreme end for sure...unless our little guild steps up and owns it! YEa, that's not gonna happen. So, personal opinion/experience you reckon I've not gimped myself playing a StamDK as Argonion? Keep in mind pve here, and returning player but I would count myself as being new. Hopefully soon will go test on dummy or better yet in real raid/trial/ whatever they are and my skill and dps will have improved. What I don't want is to try and learn the game and class and such all over and already have handicapped myself by rolling some thing while not unheard of but surely not BIS.
    Let me ask this, is there a way/ways to make up what I lack in passives with say CP's, other traits, enchants, etc.? Or....and this is the big one.....do I just delete and start fresh beings the toon is like lvl 7? Save me all the drama of hearing about how much a noob I am and respeccin' then?!? I could always just throw up in their faces that dude HatchetHaro who SWEARS by the class, as stam Dk's and Sorc's!! Or is he even still playing? Meh...doesn't matter....
    Anyways, yea, I get that any race can play any class and do it well enough, and that's fine and all. I just like to try and do things "right" the first time out the gate and to me being able to "keep up" is what I am really after while not being heckled for the role/race I picked....sucks the fun out of it for me that does. Cheers all!

    (Lol....after walking away I came back thinking maybe I should just stick with Argo and make it the most kickass there is around!!??)

    The short answer is, not really... If you look at the meta stamina races for PVE DPS, it really comes down to 1. Redguard (Sustain and max stam) and 2. Khajiit (weapon Crit). Argonian will actually have better sustain than most races because of the potion passive, but they dont get any useful damage buffs. They do get a health buff, which means you shouldnt spend any points there (which can typically go towards stam), but most end game players dont put points there anyway. The reality is that every scenario where there is a tradeoff between stam and something else (attributes, and glyphs), you have likely already picked stamina anyways. In other words, no matter what you do, you wont have the stam pool of a min/maxed redguard, and will therefore by definition do less damage.

    The upside to Argonian is that if you decide to tank, you already have the best race class combo, and you have a great PVP race. Have you gimped yourself as a PVE DPS? To some degree yes, but it is not a deal breaker unless pushing trial scores. Sounds like that's not an issue, so let your lizard flag fly. If its early and you are considering a change, well, redguard all day.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on April 30, 2018 8:00PM
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,300ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Khajiit, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR44- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Dunmer, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Orc, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer (DC)
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc, Bearona Virus - Breton

    vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer
  • beetleklee
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    I play a Khajiit StamDK and do fine, I frequently pull 50k+ ST DPS in my raids and don't suffer from too much sustain issues because of the heavy attack rotation. A Redguard may be able to pull a couple k more and have better sustain. But in the Summerset patch, LA/HA will scale off Stamina so it looks like Redguard will be even better : / Khajiit does need a buff, especially because of that change.

    At 670+ CP I can do 36k on a 6 mil dummy and since you asked about Argonians, my friend pulls higher DPS (39k) than me on his Argonian StamDK but he's also max CP and a better player than I am.
    PC NA
    CP 690

    EP Dunmer MagDK Level 50, Stormproof
    EP Dunmer MagSorc Level 50, Stormproof
    EP Argonian DK Tank Level 50, Boethiah's Scythe
    EP Breton Templar Healer Level 50
    EP Khajiit StamDK Level 50, Stormproof
    EP Dunmer Magblade Level 50, Assistant Alienist
    EP Argonian Stamden Level 50, Lady of Misrule (pvp)
    EP Dunmer Stamblade Level 50
    DC Redguard Stamplar
    AD Altmer Magwarden Healer

    vMA, vDSA, vSO HM, vHRC HM, vAA, vAS+1, vMoL
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    beetleklee wrote: »
    I play a Khajiit StamDK and do fine, I frequently pull 50k+ ST DPS in my raids and don't suffer from too much sustain issues because of the heavy attack rotation. A Redguard may be able to pull a couple k more and have better sustain. But in the Summerset patch, LA/HA will scale off Stamina so it looks like Redguard will be even better : / Khajiit does need a buff, especially because of that change.

    At 670+ CP I can do 36k on a 6 mil dummy and since you asked about Argonians, my friend pulls higher DPS (39k) than me on his Argonian StamDK but he's also max CP and a better player than I am.

    You bring up a good point. The LA/HA changes favor redgaurd and even Imperial. I cant confirm this, but I wouldnt not be surprised if Imperial pulls ahead of Khajiit to firmly take over second place (not that they are really that far out of second now). The other thing is that with the emergence of sets like Mechanical acuity, crit passives have less value than they used to. Nothing wrong with argonian, but if you are considering a "meta" race change, I personally wouldn't look to khajiit.

    Also, those numbers are pretty spot on. I typically pull about 41-42k on live with my redguard on a 6 mil dummy, which is about 5%ish ahead of your argonian buddy. Both will be well over 50k in a good raid. I am in BIS gear, and sDK rotation just isnt all that hard. In fact, I think it's the second easiest rotation in the game behind Heavy Attack pet sorc. Same idea (big circular rotation), it just takes a few more button presses to get through it.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,300ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Khajiit, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR44- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Dunmer, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Orc, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer (DC)
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc, Bearona Virus - Breton

    vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer
  • Luckylancer
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    Those who think race doesnt matter should use off-resource sets on their dds. Then tell the diffrence. Race passives are like 5pc set.
  • BaneOfBattler
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    Stam dps = Kajhit
    Magicka dps = Altmer/Breton
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Well I bit the bullet and stayed Argonian! He was only lvl 6 so just swapped over to magDK and it seems to fit so much better. At least some of the passives fit the class, so not a complete waste. Now lets just hope I can break my personal "meta" and play something in an MMO other than Human, Elf, Dwarf.....! ;) And here's hoping that all the rumors and what have you in regards to magDK will be spot on and SS is a good thing, for ALL classes!!
    Thanks to you all for your input, much appreciated!
    Edited by Joxer61 on May 1, 2018 11:58AM
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Stam dps = Kajhit
    Magicka dps = Altmer/Breton

    Only one of those races are BIS, not sure what the point of that post is. Breton isnt BIS for anything, and frankly neither is Kahjiit.

    Redgaurd is across the board the best PVE stam DPS race. Dunmer is the best for mDK and mNB, Altmer is likely best for the other three. I hear people argue mTemplar both ways (altmer/Dunmer), but breton is nowhere near the conversation.
    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on May 1, 2018 3:39PM
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,300ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Khajiit, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR44- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Dunmer, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Orc, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer (DC)
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc, Bearona Virus - Breton

    vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Well I bit the bullet and stayed Argonian! He was only lvl 6 so just swapped over to magDK and it seems to fit so much better. At least some of the passives fit the class, so not a complete waste. Now lets just hope I can break my personal "meta" and play something in an MMO other than Human, Elf, Dwarf.....! ;) And here's hoping that all the rumors and what have you in regards to magDK will be spot on and SS is a good thing, for ALL classes!!
    Thanks to you all for your input, much appreciated!

    Unless the wind really changes directions, mDK is going to be really strong next patch.

    Pro tip: You might want to get your hands on elf bane jewelry. It is going to be the FOTM i think for mDK next patch. It boosts all our flame damage skills (basically all of them) by 2 seconds, which is both a damage and a sustain buff. It's a heavy set, but with trait change, you can run arcane jewelry and 2 heavy pieces of armor, and go 5 light/2 heavy. Gold Jewelry has already shot WAY up in price, but its one of those 5 piece sets where the 5th piece doesn't scale with quality, so purple works just fine.

    People are on to it, and the price is rising for purples, but you can still get them for 3-4k a piece. I bought about 4 sets last night. The armor in good traits is already getting a little tricky to find. Ideally you would want the armor on chest and legs for max resources, but anything other than head/shoulder will work, as you can craft around it in light with Mechanical Acuity.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,300ish

    My Toons:
    DKs: Oreyn ßearclaw - Dunmer, Bear-m'Athra - Khajiit, Bearzilla - Argonian
    Sorcs: Beary Jane - AR44- Breton, Bearricane - Orc, Molag Bear - Altmer
    NBs: Bearclaw Oreyn - Dunmer, Bearblade - Bosmer, ßearblade - Dunmer (DC)
    Temps: Gandalf Likes To Party - Altmer, Bearplar - Orc, Bearamedic - Argonian
    Wardens: Warden Bearclaw - Altmer, Bear Jordan - Redguard, Bear's Hippie Girlfriend - Bosmer (DC)
    Necros: Bearomancer - Dunmer, ßearßones - Orc, Bearona Virus - Breton

    vSSHM, vCR+3, vAS+2, vHOFHM, vMOLHM, vSOHM, vHRCHM, vAAHM, vBRP, vDSA, Flawless Conqueror-All Classes, Spirit Slayer
  • Joxer61
    Joxer61
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    Joxer61 wrote: »
    Well I bit the bullet and stayed Argonian! He was only lvl 6 so just swapped over to magDK and it seems to fit so much better. At least some of the passives fit the class, so not a complete waste. Now lets just hope I can break my personal "meta" and play something in an MMO other than Human, Elf, Dwarf.....! ;) And here's hoping that all the rumors and what have you in regards to magDK will be spot on and SS is a good thing, for ALL classes!!
    Thanks to you all for your input, much appreciated!

    Unless the wind really changes directions, mDK is going to be really strong next patch.

    Pro tip: You might want to get your hands on elf bane jewelry. It is going to be the FOTM i think for mDK next patch. It boosts all our flame damage skills (basically all of them) by 2 seconds, which is both a damage and a sustain buff. It's a heavy set, but with trait change, you can run arcane jewelry and 2 heavy pieces of armor, and go 5 light/2 heavy. Gold Jewelry has already shot WAY up in price, but its one of those 5 piece sets where the 5th piece doesn't scale with quality, so purple works just fine.

    People are on to it, and the price is rising for purples, but you can still get them for 3-4k a piece. I bought about 4 sets last night. The armor in good traits is already getting a little tricky to find. Ideally you would want the armor on chest and legs for max resources, but anything other than head/shoulder will work, as you can craft around it in light with Mechanical Acuity.

    Thanks for that!! I will try and grab some tomorrow! Cheers! ;)
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