2H Big Nerf

Leemado

I did a little test of stamina weapons because i wanted to see how bad the nerf to 2H light attacks was. I did the comparison using CP160 blue decisive weapons (2H, DW and Bow). I list individual light attacks values and DPS against precursor only doing light attacks:

2H:

• Normal light attack: 2902
• Precursor only light attacking: 4866 DPS

Bow:

• Normal light attack: 3617 ~ 4145 *
• Precursor only light attacking: 8033 DPS

DW:

• Normal light attack: 3467
• Precursor only light attacking: 7119 DPS
• DW individual light attacks do 20% more damage than 2H attacks.
• DW attacks are faster than 2H
• Light attack DPS considering speed of DW seems to be 46% more than 2H

* Bow light attacks change a lot usually starts low and climbs to 4145 and remains there, I think it is Hawk eye passive.
I don’t understand the reason to nerf 2H weapons this way. This isn’t balance, this is crippling the less used weapon in PVE. If this is done because of all the people using 2H in pvp, this won’t change it. Changing light attacks won’t have a big impact in PVP but will make 2H even less useful in PVE.

Brrrofski

Leemado wrote: »

I did a little test of stamina weapons because i wanted to see how bad the nerf to 2H light attacks was. I did the comparison using CP160 blue decisive weapons (2H, DW and Bow). I list individual light attacks values and DPS against precursor only doing light attacks:

2H:

• Normal light attack: 2902
• Precursor only light attacking: 4866 DPS

Bow:

• Normal light attack: 3617 ~ 4145 *
• Precursor only light attacking: 8033 DPS

DW:

• Normal light attack: 3467
• Precursor only light attacking: 7119 DPS
• DW individual light attacks do 20% more damage than 2H attacks.
• DW attacks are faster than 2H
• Light attack DPS considering speed of DW seems to be 46% more than 2H

* Bow light attacks change a lot usually starts low and climbs to 4145 and remains there, I think it is Hawk eye passive.
I don’t understand the reason to nerf 2H weapons this way. This isn’t balance, this is crippling the less used weapon in PVE. If this is done because of all the people using 2H in pvp, this won’t change it. Changing light attacks won’t have a big impact in PVP but will make 2H even less useful in PVE.

It's probably because of PvP (contrary to popular belief, needs are often because of PvP.

Big heavy attack. with your 2h causing your dawn breaker or incap to hit a lot harder is very big burst. I'd guess it's to do with that.

Edit: just saw you were on about light attacks. I have no idea why in that case. Ignore everything I said lol

Smaxx

Then they should adjust the PvP formula rather than blanket adjusting the whole game around it.

Leemado

Brrrofski wrote: »

Leemado wrote: »

I did a little test of stamina weapons because i wanted to see how bad the nerf to 2H light attacks was. I did the comparison using CP160 blue decisive weapons (2H, DW and Bow). I list individual light attacks values and DPS against precursor only doing light attacks:

2H:

• Normal light attack: 2902
• Precursor only light attacking: 4866 DPS

Bow:

• Normal light attack: 3617 ~ 4145 *
• Precursor only light attacking: 8033 DPS

DW:

• Normal light attack: 3467
• Precursor only light attacking: 7119 DPS
• DW individual light attacks do 20% more damage than 2H attacks.
• DW attacks are faster than 2H
• Light attack DPS considering speed of DW seems to be 46% more than 2H

* Bow light attacks change a lot usually starts low and climbs to 4145 and remains there, I think it is Hawk eye passive.
I don’t understand the reason to nerf 2H weapons this way. This isn’t balance, this is crippling the less used weapon in PVE. If this is done because of all the people using 2H in pvp, this won’t change it. Changing light attacks won’t have a big impact in PVP but will make 2H even less useful in PVE.

It's probably because of PvP (contrary to popular belief, needs are often because of PvP.

Big heavy attack. with your 2h causing your dawn breaker or incap to hit a lot harder is very big burst. I'd guess it's to do with that.

Edit: just saw you were on about light attacks. I have no idea why in that case. Ignore everything I said lol

Smaxx wrote: »

Then they should adjust the PvP formula rather than blanket adjusting the whole game around it.

maybe they should just give DW some more useful skills for PVP instead of just crippling 2H or... why dont just remove 2H from the game?

olsborg

Agree with op about this.

Tempestwrath

This really needs rectification. 2H is already behind DW by quite a bit in terms of raw damage. The gap is only going to grow.

Strider__Roshin

They need to undo this nerf. What a horrible change.

RoyJade

Agreed. 2H should have light ad heavy attack at least equal to DW.
If the follow-up passive is a problem, then it's the only thing who need a change.

DW should get more pvp love without breaking it in pve, while 2H need a pvp tone down without nerfing it further in pve. This change does nearly nothing in pvp while hitting the pve really hard.

Aeschere3

I agree. I usually don't choose 2H in games normally, and if this nerf stays I'll probably never choose it.

Strider__Roshin

RoyJade wrote: »

Agreed. 2H should have light ad heavy attack at least equal to DW.
If the follow-up passive is a problem, then it's the only thing who need a change.

DW should get more pvp love without breaking it in pve, while 2H need a pvp tone down without nerfing it further in pve. This change does nearly nothing in pvp while hitting the pve really hard.

Unless you can equip two different enchants on the 2H, and it has equal light and heavy attack speed then they can be equal in damage, but until that's the case they should deal more damage to compensate.

mr_wazzabi

This is ***. I was hoping to finally do high pve dps with my 2h with the set changes.

Then they nerf light attacks.

Makes no sense.

What's worse, is ZOS simply DOES NOT CARE that we're upset about it. Right @ZOS_wrobel ?

RoyJade

Daus wrote: »

Unless you can equip two different enchants on the 2H, and it has equal light and heavy attack speed then they can be equal in damage, but until that's the case they should deal more damage to compensate.

On the other hand, with the first passive a 2H light/heavy attack deal 50% of his damage to three nearby enemies.

I won't be against more damage than DW for 2H LA/HA, but equal seem fine. Let passives (and a follow up rework) make them more appealing without breaking pvp.

Gilvoth

Daus wrote: »

They need to undo this nerf. What a horrible change.

i have to agree with this.
especially for Bow.

Bow light attack should do more Damage.

templesus

Hold up, are people really suggesting 2h needs to be nerfed in PvP? Have any of you ever PvPed a day in your life with Dizzying Swing? And further, do you think stamina chooses to use it? Every stamina class bar warden is pidgeonholed into using it for rally/forward momentum, and i can guarantee if there were other options you would not see 2h being used anywhere close to how much it is now. Don’t call for nerfs when you have no idea what you’re talking about.

Tempestwrath

Really, 2H needs either one of two changes to be on even footing:

1) Equal Light Attack DPS as DW and improved enchantment strength to compensate for the single enchantment.

or

2) Greater DPS than DW for light attacks.

In both situations, individual weaves in a rotation will do more damage than comparable DW rotations. This, however, is fine. 2H rotations typically have less weaving opportunities in the first place due to Wrecking Blow being the only viable spammable and it being a very slow skill. Even with the revised Empower, I'm seeing considerably less DPS in a similar 2H to DW rotation, which is exacerbated in this new patch by the improved light attack damage for DW.

Another problem is that the Empower morph of uppercut is now required to make the skill...not even on par with DW's unmorphed skill offerings and LA weaving This is patently ridiculous.

Finally, in forcing weak light attacks into the rotation via the altered Empower, you're getting rid of the heavy attacks that the previously borderline-viable 2H Stamsorc build Alcast developed (really the only even close to viable 2H PVE build in the game, and even it sat solidly behind it's DW brother) used to sustain itself. You're gutting the one, single, viable spec that existed and effectively killing the skill line for the majority of the player base.

I'm this environment, adding the extra 2H set piece bonus (already compensated for pre-patch via a 5/3/2/1 setup utilizing a 3 piece jewelry set, an endgame weapon set, a monster set, and one 5 piece set) is purely superfluous.


All this patch is ultimately accomplishing is putting magicka builds further ahead (additional set bonus), letting DW sit about where it is (moving the damage from Blade Cloak into the light attack component of the rotation), and rendering 2H completely, utterly useless.

Leemado

Having a huge Battle axe swing dealing the less damage of all the weapons... (apart from being the slowest) smart move
R.I.P. the 2 handers

Can anyone from ZOS give us an opinion on this?? or do we all need to ditch the 2h?

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Raz415

This is so lame and counterintuitive, my God. You always expect 2h to do more white damage per hit but have a slower attack speed. Likewise their abilities should be more devastating but cosume a lot more resources (generally be bursty). Dual wield is always faster / deals more DPS if not interrupted.

Dracane

In my opinion, 2handeds are too strong in pvp and still I think that this change is non sense. Why would it deal significantly less damage than bows and even than dual wield ? I also feel like 2H light attacks are slower than the others on top of that.

Strider__Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

In my opinion, 2handeds are too strong in pvp and still I think that this change is non sense. Why would it deal significantly less damage than bows and even than dual wield ? I also feel like 2H light attacks are slower than the others on top of that.

Especially the heavy attack which makes it harder to maintain resources in PvP, and it makes it an even greater DPS loss in PvE.

starkerealm

Weird, I've been seeing increased overall DPS with my 2h.

Here's my question: are you just light attacking, waiting for the animation to finish, and then light attacking again? Because the 2h has some long post attack animations that you can cancel, but simply trying to light attack again, by default, won't do that.

Leemado

Also in my OP i forgot to mention i don't have any passive in DW. Have all the passives for 2H and Bow, but no passives for DW which i believe would make an even bigger difference for DW. If anyone could make a similar test using only light attacks that'd be great.

reprosal

All of these 'balance' threads and posts are always comparing PvP situations and scenarios. It's funny because PvE suffers through it all. Pretty sad when everything revolves around PvP.