[Poll] Non-Exclusive Motif Pages in Crown Crates (updated)

DaveMoeDee

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

I don't like it, but I will never buy a motif with real money so I would equally not like it if it was on sale directly.

DaveMoeDee

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Slurg wrote: »

By the way, I am amused that most of the people who are “fine with it” aren’t spending any money in the crown store or in crates anyway. Let your free flag fly!

This is the problem with questions like this. I would never buy a motif or any cosmetic with real money, so I'm not ZOS valued demographic for this.

I don't like having any motif not available to earn in-game, but my general feeling about putting them in the crown store is whatever. Would have been nice to be able to get all motifs, but sometimes I can't get what I want. I'm fine with them using a few motifs for additional revenue. It isn't like someone is going to kill me in Cyrodiil because I am overpowered by the style of their armor.

Lylith

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

i'll buy c/s exclusive motifs, no problem, but putting pages in crown crates is predatory.

i understand marketers have no souls, but someone with a soul should keep them in check.

supaskrub

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Out of interest last night I ran a probability calculation programme of the chances of getting the full set of the motifs out of the crates, it was far from a scientific calculation as i don't know the odds on drop rate so I had to guess that part. I guessed that the drop rate would be that out of every three crates then one motif would drop,, chapters were numbered 1-14 and the numbers could be repeated (dupe chapters).. I ran the programme..

To ensure I had obtained all chapters would have meant that I would have had to buy 5x 15 packs of crates, i'm not aware of the $ price of crates but in UK sterling that is equal to spending a little shy of around £130 at present prices, there would have been 11 duplicate chapters which would have given back a conversion to gems rate of 55 gems (i did read each chapter could be converted for 5 gems) enabling me to purchase 4 of the chapters but this would only have made the overall cost in £'s slightly less and would still have been over the £100 mark.

Like i say it was not scientific, nor exact and I did not run the programme a zillion times (after all my test could have been a wild outlier) to reach a solid conclusion and it is based entirely on numerical rng and repeating/unique numbers in place of motifs ,it was just me emulating buying crates until i had the complete collection of unique numbers of 1-14 (which I would do only once anyway) so there would be no need to get a lowest amount of crates needed (which would be have been three 15 crate packs at a 3-1 drop rate, leaving 3 crates spare out of the 45) if you are extremely lucky.... it was a one time only emulation..

Orticia

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

The Zos mentioned reason: making the crate loot more rewarding, upping the quality of one of the more common drop color, blue tier. I quite disagree. White/green drops the most..mostly useless consumeables just good for gems. If motif pages dropped instead of those I would agree with the statement and be happy with the motif added. Even a partial motif is better then pointless, low gem rewarding consumables. And most of the crates is white/gree consumables.

But that is Not the case.
As it stands now it actually makes the loot quality less. You are only guaranted one blue or higher item. So a partial motif would take that slot. So Unless you buy lots of crates (in a perfect world a minimum of 14) and really like the motif, single pages are worth way less (to me atleast), then stand alone rewards like a costume, memento or pet. Those are not dependant on getting lots of other rewards to get value, especially when the motif is very looks specific and does not seem to combine well with other motifs. Like with this one. Not to mention unlike costumes these need gold and an outfit slot to even use.

Also makes small gem collections less usefull as there is less to buy with it, as single motif pages just ain't intresting to buy for me, unlike nice stand alone rewards in the blue tier. Meaning drops wise and gem collection wise buying single crates became less interesting. People like me who are only interested in buying one or two for fun aren't people likely to suddenly buy loads due to this. In fact most likely no crate at all will be bought anymore. Though honestly I doubt ZoS would care about this as I don't buy many to begin with.

Still love free crates though So crates ain't all bad.

Eso101rus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Just no....

Elsonso

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Orticia wrote: »

The Zos mentioned reason: making the crate loot more rewarding, upping the quality of one of the more common drop color, blue tier. I quite disagree. White/green drops the most..mostly useless consumeables just good for gems. If motif pages dropped instead of those I would agree with the statement and be happy with the motif added. Even a partial motif is better then pointless, low gem rewarding consumables. And most of the crates is white/gree consumables.

This reason confuses me, as well. I have not formed a fully coherent thought on this, just because I am confused.

I would not be any more confused if they said "we heard you that Templars are under performing, so we have improved Crystal Shards" or "we will be rolling out performance upgrades, starting with new costumes".

If what they said is their real reason, I am not sure why they picked the blue-tier. It is already clear that the lower tiers are worse.

I am doubting it is the real reason. This is the reason they came up with to communicate a change that has another reason for being. Sort of like the justification for Crown Crates being, in part, because they needed a way to re-introduce items that had been removed from the Crown Store.

It is clear that the real reason is that they have noticed that people are driven to collect the complete motif set. They need to increase Crown Crate sales. If ZOS puts pages into the Crown Crates at the Blue level, people will be similarly driven to try and collect them all. While players are doing that, they are buying and spending Crowns.

This all sounds terrific, if you happen to be a marketing person or executive that is only looking at the money numbers coming in. For some players, though, this is sort of like teasing them. Animals bite when people do this sort of thing to them. With humans, I guess we just tell them to just ignore the Crown Crates and not buy them.

It will be interesting to see if they go through with the plan, as it is presented today.

Edit: Seems this post has cleared my thinking on this matter.

ManwithBeard9

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

I didn't had a problem with the Crown Store or Crates until now. A full motif book in the crates or store is tolerable for me, but when you put individual pages in, it's just too much. Especially when you can only get the pages through random chance or converting things into gems.

cmetzger93

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Pretty shameful. The lengths they will go to monetize this game have no bounds

BejaProphet

I'm indifferent or have other thoughts.

Voted: I have different thoughts.

If they are going to do this it should not be bind on pick up. Let them sell copies they don't want and I'll be alright with it.

The big issue is that too many people consider collecting the various motif's as a major personal goal in the game. You can't suddenly make crate gambling the only way to get them.

However, I'm alright with them making it the only source, so long as I can later buy it on brokers from the people who purchased the crates.

But then again, the moment they do that, you've essentially created a way for me to purchase in game gold by spending real life money. You are on a VERY slippery slope here ZOS.

Turelus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

BejaProphet wrote: »

Voted: I have different thoughts.

If they are going to do this it should not be bind on pick up. Let them sell copies they don't want and I'll be alright with it.

The big issue is that too many people consider collecting the various motif's as a major personal goal in the game. You can't suddenly make crate gambling the only way to get them.

However, I'm alright with them making it the only source, so long as I can later buy it on brokers from the people who purchased the crates.

But then again, the moment they do that, you've essentially created a way for me to purchase in game gold by spending real life money. You are on a VERY slippery slope here ZOS.

We have money to gold enabled with Summerset any way via gifting. There is no argument for them not letting crown store items be sold for gold any more.

Edit: It would in fact be safer for them to allow items to be traded/sold normally because then there is less chance people will be scammed in deals of gold for crown store items.

BejaProphet

I'm indifferent or have other thoughts.

Turelus wrote: »

We have money to gold enabled with Summerset any way via gifting. There is no argument for them not letting crown store items be sold for gold any more.

Wow, is that why it took them so very long to bring gifting into the game? I never understood why that didn't come much sooner.

Turelus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

BejaProphet wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

We have money to gold enabled with Summerset any way via gifting. There is no argument for them not letting crown store items be sold for gold any more.

Wow, is that why it took them so very long to bring gifting into the game? I never understood why that didn't come much sooner.

I doubt this is the reason and it's not an official system to buy gifts with gold but it's going to happen regardless.

LittlePumpkin030

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Istoppucks wrote: »

Back in the day im sure a poll about sub fees would have the same results from the same people.

The 86% complainig about the store were the same people complaining about sub fees and wanting f2p b2p games. Well congrats boys you created this yourself.

I dont buy store item with real money i pay a sub and use what they give me. Right now the cool thing to do in the "video game forum community" is complain about the stores. I find it ironic and hilarious as most of you brought this on yourself.

Can't agree. I think sub is a good Idea, but having something behind gambling is not acceptable. Also I have no issues with the crown store itself.

Minyassa

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Would result in some people just never having a chance, due to RNG taking a dislike to them permanently.

Chaos2088

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

If the only way I can get this motif is by buying a large number of crown crates, then forget it.

I feel sorry for who designed the motif as it looks beautiful, but I will not be getting it. Never bought a crown crate. Never will.

SGT_Wolfe101st

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

I am against Crown Crates, I would much prefer there to be two paths to all/most items. Earned in game if you are interested in the achievement and then via the Crown $tore for other items and to forgo the grind. Quarter after quarter more and more is behind the Crown $tore wall, motifs, houses, mounts, outfit styles, housing material, furnishings. Due to another poll I figured up that I have spent right at $500 on this game. That is more than I spent on the console itself. Clearly mine and many others "support" at $300-500 isn't enough.

I have had ESO+ since I started playing (almost 3 years), I buy the chapters (even though I think that was a cash grab as well) partly due to the benefits but also to support the game. I know their efforts aren't free, but we are beyond support with these practices, we are into P2E, Pay to Enjoy, it isn't P2W, they know that would cause more of an outrage than we are seeing today but it is P2E. I am cancelling my ESO+, I am cancelling my pre-order, if it becomes too much of a pain to play without then I'll stop all together. They have drawn a line in the sand and I can't go past it.

SGT_Wolfe101st

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Double Post

Merenwen_812

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

I am kinda indifferent about crates really. However, I do not like the idea of crate only motif.
But I also don't like PVP motif only. So what I like is irrelevant I assume.

Radiance

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Crown Store Online
RNG Online
Inventory Online
No Time Online
Gems & Gold Online
Elder Scrolls Online

Eiden

I am fine with exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

A bit late to the party, but, guess I should have gone indifferent. I can't say I've never bought a crown crate, maybe one here or there.
What I don't understand is why the uproar? I can't be the ONLY one here that can actually comprehend that purchasing a crown crate isn't necessary, or at least won't be necessary. The dev did mention that crown crates can be earned via special events and as rewards for future daily quests.
So, if grinding and doing dailies for gear drops and gold drops is your thing...........not much really changes, does it?
I suppose if you need to be first kid on the block with the new bike, then guess you gotta shell out some dough, otherwise, wait to see what kind of events or dailies they are proposing to receive crown crate rewards.

I will agree with others, though, that crown store item prices are inflated beyond reward value.

Turelus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Eiden wrote: »

A bit late to the party, but, guess I should have gone indifferent. I can't say I've never bought a crown crate, maybe one here or there.
What I don't understand is why the uproar? I can't be the ONLY one here that can actually comprehend that purchasing a crown crate isn't necessary, or at least won't be necessary. The dev did mention that crown crates can be earned via special events and as rewards for future daily quests.
So, if grinding and doing dailies for gear drops and gold drops is your thing...........not much really changes, does it?
I suppose if you need to be first kid on the block with the new bike, then guess you gotta shell out some dough, otherwise, wait to see what kind of events or dailies they are proposing to receive crown crate rewards.

I will agree with others, though, that crown store item prices are inflated beyond reward value.

@Eiden in a way you're right and I think the uproar is because it's change and in a way which isn't in our best interests.

There are a lot of players out there who want to be completionists or master crafters, in order to do that you have to own all the motifs. There are also the people who have been waiting since launch for a Maomer motif because they love the look of it.

Now ZOS wants to deliver that motif to us but the method they've chosen is one which will extract the most amount of money from us. This isn't a simple crown purchase nor is it a complete book, it's been deliberately designed in a way to make those who want it buy crates and a lot of them.

The reasons given don't hold up either, we were told it was for a "more rewarding experience" and the fact we could buy them with gems was for "player choice" (these are marketing phrases people have come to know and hate in the gaming industry) when more rewarding crate experiences would be improving Radiant levels (everything for gems again) and cutting down on the "fluff (consumable) items".

Player choice would have been to add this as a book and pages to the crates, or have it for direct purchase as well. Not everyone is even asking for this as a free in game item, just not to become more crate fodder used to manipulate and further push the boundaries of what's acceptable.

Not everyone has to agree with what I feel on this and that's why the poll is done in the least biased way I could.

sdtlc

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

It's just showing where we are going, after the initial uproar against crates, we got gems and now besides the gems we have stuff which can't be obtained via gems.

I'll be taking bets on how long it takes till we see low droprate motif books.

And i'm totally aware i'm beeing pessimistic here, but so far ZOS has atleast matched the expectations, when not outperformed.

Istoppucks

I am fine with exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Kybotica wrote: »

Also, @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom :

Can we get some sort of recognition that this is being looked into? It is obvious between this topic and this one (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407188/pyandonean-maormer-motif/p8) that the vast majority of those here do not like this concept.

The people on the forums are NOT the "vast majority" you have 300 votes lol those complaining are the VOCAL MINORITY that is just a fact with every single video game forum ever created. Every developer is aware of this.

Sure every now and then an issue comes up that those in the forums complain enough about an the situation gets adjusted, but unfortunately in this case they have data that shows more than 300 people buy crates. You guys have 300 people in here throwing a fit its the same 300 who jump on every complain thread this is video game forum 101 in 2018.

Thinking 300 votes is the "vast majority " of players in this game is rather funny.

Violynne

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Turelus wrote: »

Not everyone has to agree with what I feel on this and that's why the poll is done in the least biased way I could.

Trying to have a conversation with anyone who believes Crown Crates are "just for fun" is futile. True, it's their money and they can do whatever they want, but I draw the line when these people have zero clue how their actions affect the game.

This is absolute proof what happens when whales complain.

Instead of ZoS actively making up for the disappointment Crown Crate purchasers have experienced, they instead add a new system which is wholly designed to take further advantage of them.

It's well known the Radiant Apex rewards account for less than 1% chance of success. Anyone who believes these new motifs won't be behind this same 1% is someone who deserves to lose their money.

This isn't a "We heard your feedback" moment. This is a "Suckers. Now we really know how to hook you" moment.

But hey, it's not my money I'm throwing away, so let the whales have their "fun".

As for the rest of us who'll never be able to get this motif (which I'm sure will also be bound on pickup), screw us. We don't matter.

Turelus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Violynne wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Not everyone has to agree with what I feel on this and that's why the poll is done in the least biased way I could.

Trying to have a conversation with anyone who believes Crown Crates are "just for fun" is futile. True, it's their money and they can do whatever they want, but I draw the line when these people have zero clue how their actions affect the game.

This is absolute proof what happens when whales complain.

Instead of ZoS actively making up for the disappointment Crown Crate purchasers have experienced, they instead add a new system which is wholly designed to take further advantage of them.

It's well known the Radiant Apex rewards account for less than 1% chance of success. Anyone who believes these new motifs won't be behind this same 1% is someone who deserves to lose their money.

This isn't a "We heard your feedback" moment. This is a "Suckers. Now we really know how to hook you" moment.

But hey, it's not my money I'm throwing away, so let the whales have their "fun".

As for the rest of us who'll never be able to get this motif (which I'm sure will also be bound on pickup), screw us. We don't matter.

I'm open to engagement and I think it's better to hear peoples views, I just have yet to hear a compelling argument for why Crown Crates are better for the consumer.

Yes you get "more" but most of that is fluff stuff which isn't worth the crowns you paid (consumables). I would be fine with a system where they sold crate items individually at fixed prices (they can go crazy and make radiant mount £50 if they want) but offer people crates as a grab bag of current season crown store items.

Once again this would be actual consumer choice in how we spend our money.

Istoppucks

I am fine with exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Turelus wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Not everyone has to agree with what I feel on this and that's why the poll is done in the least biased way I could.

Trying to have a conversation with anyone who believes Crown Crates are "just for fun" is futile. True, it's their money and they can do whatever they want, but I draw the line when these people have zero clue how their actions affect the game.

This is absolute proof what happens when whales complain.

Instead of ZoS actively making up for the disappointment Crown Crate purchasers have experienced, they instead add a new system which is wholly designed to take further advantage of them.

It's well known the Radiant Apex rewards account for less than 1% chance of success. Anyone who believes these new motifs won't be behind this same 1% is someone who deserves to lose their money.

This isn't a "We heard your feedback" moment. This is a "Suckers. Now we really know how to hook you" moment.

But hey, it's not my money I'm throwing away, so let the whales have their "fun".

As for the rest of us who'll never be able to get this motif (which I'm sure will also be bound on pickup), screw us. We don't matter.

I'm open to engagement and I think it's better to hear peoples views, I just have yet to hear a compelling argument for why Crown Crates are better for the consumer.

Yes you get "more" but most of that is fluff stuff which isn't worth the crowns you paid (consumables). I would be fine with a system where they sold crate items individually at fixed prices (they can go crazy and make radiant mount £50 if they want) but offer people crates as a grab bag of current season crown store items.

Once again this would be actual consumer choice in how we spend our money.

Video game forums are not the place for those who enjoy the game or favor a system like crates come to have discussion .

Those like violynn are the reason. Just read his last post, just because people dont share his opinion he goes on a rant about having a discussion with anyone who doesnt agree with him is "futile". Anyone who disagrees with him is a "sucker" and nobody who disagrees with him is allowed to have "fun". He is not the only one with this mentality here.

10-15 years ago video game forums of all kinds were a place gamers could share opinion and ideas without fear of the mob mentality present today. Today its all about jumping on the bandwagon of the next hot topic to collect those needed upvotes to feel included. This is why the majority of gamers never step foot in forums.

Esha76

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

FYI - Gina just confirmed that the Maormer motif style will also be obtainable through fishing in Summerset.

Page 15 in this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/407188/pyandonean-maormer-motif#latest

Turelus

I don't like exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

Yeah. REALLY happy about this, glad to be proven wrong for once.

strangeradnd

I am fine with exclusive motif pages in Crown Crates.

strangeradnd wrote: »

If it is cosmetic only I could care less if they make it exclusive. The minute you need that motif to complete a writ my opinion will pull a 180.

I do buy crates but I don't spend massive amounts of money on them. I get what I get and if I don't get something I would like, hey that's how RNG works and tough crap for me and I'm ok with that.

strangeradnd wrote: »

If it is cosmetic only I could care less if they make it exclusive. The minute you need that motif to complete a writ my opinion will pull a 180.

I do buy crates but I don't spend massive amounts of money on them. I get what I get and if I don't get something I would like, hey that's how RNG works and tough crap for me and I'm ok with that.

strangeradnd wrote: »

If it is cosmetic only I could care less if they make it exclusive. The minute you need that motif to complete a writ my opinion will pull a 180.

I do buy crates but I don't spend massive amounts of money on them. I get what I get and if I don't get something I would like, hey that's how RNG works and tough crap for me and I'm ok with that.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

strangeradnd wrote: »

If it is cosmetic only I could care less if they make it exclusive. The minute you need that motif to complete a writ my opinion will pull a 180.

I do buy crates but I don't spend massive amounts of money on them. I get what I get and if I don't get something I would like, hey that's how RNG works and tough crap for me and I'm ok with that.

I wonder if this would work with gas for your vehicle or food or if you would accept it if a fast food place messed up your order.

Or think of it like your fiance flips a coin to see if she stays with you or cheats on you after you buy her the ring and she said yes.

Fortunately I am rational enough to know the difference and enjoy the rng factor in the game. If someone is not then they have far bigger issues and should seek professional help. I can google a number if you or anyone else needs it.