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Warden representation on leader boards
MLGProPlayer
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Let's tally up again how many wardens there are on leader boards at the moment (PC/NA).
Top-100:
HRC: 1
AA: 0
SO: 4
MoL: 1
HoF: 1
AS: 2
DSA: 1
How about top-200?
HRC: 2
AA: 3
SO: 8
MoL: 2
HoF: 2
AS: 2
DSA: 4
How does ZOS plan to fix the problem?
By getting rid of the stun on shalks... A PvP nerf with no PvE buff.
That's it. That's the only change they're going to make to this class after 12 months of underperforming. This is insulting. ZOS was happy to take our money when they sold us this class, and they'll happily continue to take our money as they stick it in the crown store. But when it comes to fixing the class, they've been silent. Which other company can get away with selling a broken product for 12 months while ignoring all customer complaints and doing absolutely NOTHING to fix it? What the hell does the balance team do all day?
Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 17, 2018 11:02PM Top-100:
HRC: 1
AA: 0
SO: 4
MoL: 1
HoF: 1
AS: 2
DSA: 1
How about top-200?
HRC: 2
AA: 3
SO: 8
MoL: 2
HoF: 2
AS: 2
DSA: 4
How does ZOS plan to fix the problem?
By getting rid of the stun on shalks... A PvP nerf with no PvE buff.
That's it. That's the only change they're going to make to this class after 12 months of underperforming. This is insulting. ZOS was happy to take our money when they sold us this class, and they'll happily continue to take our money as they stick it in the crown store. But when it comes to fixing the class, they've been silent. Which other company can get away with selling a broken product for 12 months while ignoring all customer complaints and doing absolutely NOTHING to fix it? What the hell does the balance team do all day?
25
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Joshuagm1991✭✭✭In Pvp I disagree but I've been mostly playing Pve. I do feel like we lack flavor. I don't play other classes but I feel weaker in comparison to my sorc and nightblade friends. My partner plays a magicka DK and I actually really liked it. The abilities also look great on DKs.
I like the skill nature's grasp. I like Growing swarm. And... That's about it.Edited by Joshuagm1991 on April 17, 2018 11:02PM0 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭They increased the heal on arctic wind by 2 % , didnt you hear!? xD Seriously, they introduce a class and then treat it like the smurfed stepchild.3 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 17, 2018 11:40PM3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For what it’s worth, I’ve landed the #1 spot in PvP (battleground) leaderboards multiple times on my stamden. Was #3 on the most recent one.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.
I only play balanced PvP games. Hit me up in Overwatch, Rainbow 6, or Heroes of the Storm if you want to play. MMO PvP is not balanced.Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 17, 2018 11:48PM5 -
Smasherx74✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.
I only play balanced PvP games. Hit me up in Overwatch, Rainbow 6, or Heroes of the Storm if you want to play. MMO PvP is not balanced.
This MMO PVP is the best out of any MMO because there is so much variation in how you play that can lead to a win. For example, avoiding attacks by staying behind someone, running away and hiding, using combos of abilities to burst or take advantage. Building your character to specifically counter another build.
Now if you play ArcheAge for example, you'll literally never be able to kill some of the guys on there with 8k gear score.Master Debater0 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
And therein lies the issue. MOBAs are awfulEdited by Betsararie on April 18, 2018 12:00AM2 -
StoicSunbro✭✭✭When you post those numbers it really hits home. It's a really fun class to play but it's got some problems.
I've cleared vMOL and crags as a Magden dps(~36k on 3m dummy). The Animal Companions skills have various issues and don't provide much other than damage. Wardens should buff group damage passively which I wrote about here
I've cleared all crags and vMOL on my warden Healer. Each Green Balance skill has issues that discourage me from running them in vet Trials that I could write about at length. The only constant is Healing seed which I just use to give the Alkosh tank a synergy. It's unfortunate that I often run more skills from the other two lines than the Healing skill line.
I have tanked all vet crags on a warden tank, even OT vSO. I have mostly good things to say about the Winter's Embrace line. The Arctic Wind change though was painful to read. I am happy to hear Silver Leash from Fighter's Guild is becoming Stam-chains. Gate was too clunky for Twins in vMOL and is what keeps me out of there.Edited by StoicSunbro on April 18, 2018 5:42AM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »
I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
And therein lies the issue. MOBAs are awful
There is a reason why MOBAs have a multi-million dollar e-sports scene and MMOs don't.
Hint: one of them is competitively balanced, while the other isn't.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »In PvP they are currently very over the top on DPS, defense, and sustain.
They're going to be the worst PvP class following the removal of their stun. Yet ZOS sill refuses to buff them in PvE, where they have been the worst class since they were released.1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.
I only play balanced PvP games. Hit me up in Overwatch, Rainbow 6, or Heroes of the Storm if you want to play. MMO PvP is not balanced.
Those are FPS and MOBA. The MMO PvP scene is a completely different genre.
Why don't you just play an unbalanced class and dominate with it? Or get some unbalanced gear and dominate with it?
I still am having a hard time understanding why you aren't destroying people in PvP since you're so good at PvE and the gear / class selection is the only thing that matters.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »In PvP they are currently very over the top on DPS, defense, and sustain.
They're going to be the worst PvP class following the removal of their stun. Yet ZOS sill refuses to buff them in PvE, where they have been the worst class since they were released.
I really need to level one up. I know nothing about them in PvE, but, as I mentioned, in PvP they are overperforming powerfully.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
You keep saying that. If the PvP in this game is so easy, why don’t you dominate it? If you’re doing vet trials, gearing out for PvP should be really really easy.
I only play balanced PvP games. Hit me up in Overwatch, Rainbow 6, or Heroes of the Storm if you want to play. MMO PvP is not balanced.
Those are FPS and MOBA. The MMO PvP scene is a completely different genre.
Why don't you just play an unbalanced class and dominate with it? Or get some unbalanced gear and dominate with it?
That's exactly why I don't play MMO PvP. And that's exactly why MMOs don't have an e-sports scene.
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mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Really really bad state in PVP atm let alone PVE which is a numbers game mostly.
Only 4 offensive skills in the whole kit and no CC what so ever to go with it.
Arctic wind is the worst heal in game atm I think for PVP and by quite a large distance and the damage is based of max health LOL max health is how you do half decent DoT damage on arctic wind.
Its all a big mess atm but 2-3 changes can make the class great3 -
GaelicCat✭✭Here's the PC-EU numbers:
Top 100
HRC: 3
AA: 0
SO: 3
DSA: 2
MoL: 2
HoF: 1
AS: 0
Top 200
HRC: 9
AA: 4
SO: 4
DSA: 3
MoL: 3
HoF: 5
AS: 1
Total amount of each class Ranked:
Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 184
Sorc: 187
NB: 181
Templar: 169
Warden: 19
Aetherian Archive
DK: 160
Sorc: 183
NB: 190
Templar: 162
Warden: 17
Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 187
Sorc: 201
NB: 188
Templar: 172
Warden: 20
Dragonstar Arena
DK: 76
Sorc: 81
NB: 81
Templar: 58
Warden: 7
Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 143
Sorc: 141
NB: 159
Templar: 131
Warden: 9
Halls of Fabrication
DK: 129
Sorc: 130
NB: 143
Templar: 121
Warden: 8
Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 53
Sorc: 77
NB: 147
Templar: 65
Warden: 4
Weekly (HoF)
DK: 16
Sorc: 15
NB: 16
Templar: 14
Warden: 1
Warden is extremely under-represented and I completely don't understand why the developers aren't doing anything to help remedy it. I know a lot of these trials have been around for a long time, and Warden is still fairly new in comparison, but the newer trials and even the weekly trial should have had better numbers if there wasn't a problem.
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gabriebe✭✭✭✭✭Stam warden is by far the best PvP class at the moment. Magdens need some serious love though. I just think the class is underrepresented in PvE because most end-game players are kinda stuck in their ways, don't really know how to play a new class as well, there are few ressources for wannabe PvE wardens and end-game guilds are just really skeptical of them in general.Former Empresses: Saliva Bortschion (MagBlade), Janet From Finance (PvP MagSorc), Carla Swagan (Tank DK), Estelle Born (StamBlade), Enya Arsenal (MagPlar), Anita Nurse (Magplar Healer), Bearback Brigitte (Magden), Rachel Justice (MagDK), Nicole From Payroll (Stamden), Bailiff Belinda (PvE MagSorc), Féline Dion (StamDK), Septic Tank Tina (Necro Tank)
The runts: The Trolly Spirit (Tank Sorc), Floods-Your-Basement (Warden Healer) Dinah Asthma (Magcro), Total Top Tony (Stamcro)
The traitors: Janis Javelin (Stamplar, EP), Barbecue Becky (Magblade Healer, AD)
PvE: Gryphon Heart, Immortal Redeemer, Flawless Conqueror
GM: Animal Control1 -
Betsararie✭✭✭✭✭
✭Stam warden is by far the best PvP class at the moment. Magdens need some serious love though. I just think the class is underrepresented in PvE because most end-game players are kinda stuck in their ways, don't really know how to play a new class as well, there are few ressources for wannabe PvE wardens and end-game guilds are just really skeptical of them in general.
It seems like it was designed with PvP in mind with PvE as an afterthought
I don't necessarily oppose buffing them in PVE, but stamden needs to be kept under control in PVP.1 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You’re also missing one important point about those numbers - every single one of those Wardens were used by players who main other classes.
They just wanted to get titles and have fun playing with that class. The only exception is the case of a Warden Tank, which honestly isn’t so bad. Not better than DK, but not that bad at all (and powerful in an offtank role).
Warden is strictly meant to create a powerful Stamina-based PvP build atm.3 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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Not exactly “fairly new” unfortunately. We have played Warden for a year. We understand exactly what it can and can’t do.Here's the PC-EU numbers:
Top 100
HRC: 3
AA: 0
SO: 3
DSA: 2
MoL: 2
HoF: 1
AS: 0
Top 200
HRC: 9
AA: 4
SO: 4
DSA: 3
MoL: 3
HoF: 5
AS: 1
Total amount of each class Ranked:
Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 184
Sorc: 187
NB: 181
Templar: 169
Warden: 19
Aetherian Archive
DK: 160
Sorc: 183
NB: 190
Templar: 162
Warden: 17
Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 187
Sorc: 201
NB: 188
Templar: 172
Warden: 20
Dragonstar Arena
DK: 76
Sorc: 81
NB: 81
Templar: 58
Warden: 7
Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 143
Sorc: 141
NB: 159
Templar: 131
Warden: 9
Halls of Fabrication
DK: 129
Sorc: 130
NB: 143
Templar: 121
Warden: 8
Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 53
Sorc: 77
NB: 147
Templar: 65
Warden: 4
Weekly (HoF)
DK: 16
Sorc: 15
NB: 16
Templar: 14
Warden: 1
Warden is extremely under-represented and I completely don't understand why the developers aren't doing anything to help remedy it. I know a lot of these trials have been around for a long time, and Warden is still fairly new in comparison, but the newer trials and even the weekly trial should have had better numbers if there wasn't a problem.
The issue is that ZOS doesn’t care at all
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MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Here's the PC-EU numbers:
Top 100
HRC: 3
AA: 0
SO: 3
DSA: 2
MoL: 2
HoF: 1
AS: 0
Top 200
HRC: 9
AA: 4
SO: 4
DSA: 3
MoL: 3
HoF: 5
AS: 1
Total amount of each class Ranked:
Hel Ra Citadel:
DK: 184
Sorc: 187
NB: 181
Templar: 169
Warden: 19
Aetherian Archive
DK: 160
Sorc: 183
NB: 190
Templar: 162
Warden: 17
Sanctum Ophidia
DK: 187
Sorc: 201
NB: 188
Templar: 172
Warden: 20
Dragonstar Arena
DK: 76
Sorc: 81
NB: 81
Templar: 58
Warden: 7
Maw of Lorkhaj
DK: 143
Sorc: 141
NB: 159
Templar: 131
Warden: 9
Halls of Fabrication
DK: 129
Sorc: 130
NB: 143
Templar: 121
Warden: 8
Asylum Sanctorium
DK: 53
Sorc: 77
NB: 147
Templar: 65
Warden: 4
Weekly (HoF)
DK: 16
Sorc: 15
NB: 16
Templar: 14
Warden: 1
Warden is extremely under-represented and I completely don't understand why the developers aren't doing anything to help remedy it. I know a lot of these trials have been around for a long time, and Warden is still fairly new in comparison, but the newer trials and even the weekly trial should have had better numbers if there wasn't a problem.
Thanks for compiling this! These numbers are even more telling.2 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stam warden is by far the best PvP class at the moment. Magdens need some serious love though. I just think the class is underrepresented in PvE because most end-game players are kinda stuck in their ways, don't really know how to play a new class as well, there are few ressources for wannabe PvE wardens and end-game guilds are just really skeptical of them in general.
They're skeptical of them because they can barely crack 35k DPS without the pet.2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
@gabriebe An entire year has passed since Warden launched. We know all there is to know. There is no mystery or lack of testing going on here by endgame PvErs.Stam warden is by far the best PvP class at the moment. Magdens need some serious love though. I just think the class is underrepresented in PvE because most end-game players are kinda stuck in their ways, don't really know how to play a new class as well, there are few ressources for wannabe PvE wardens and end-game guilds are just really skeptical of them in general.
I could use your same logic to debunk your first statement that Stamina Warden is “by far the best PvP class at the moment”. Maybe it’s not OP and we have all simply failed to L2P yet.
Ofc, that’s not the case lol.
There is only so much you can do in a class to pull high DPS. There is a limit, and a Warden has a much lower top DPS than any other class, alongside a blatant lack of passive group utility. Also if not using the Wild Guardian/Eternal Guardian, they truly have horrible single target DPS (while if you slot the bear, AoE is punished).1 -
Stewart1874✭✭✭✭✭I use a Magden as my healer alt and its not very fun to play with. The other non healing abilities don't feel very powerful ( I know as a healer dps is going to be lower) some buffing would be nice to try and make it a bit more viable.PS4 - Europe - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »In PvP they are currently very over the top on DPS, defense, and sustain.
Stamina, not magicka. By a mile tooI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
SKill or no skill, it doesnt change the fact that the game should be balanced around pvp, and then content be created around that balance for pve. Then everyone wins. If you balance it around pve, then you will always have a constant stream of people complaining about balance in pvp. Its a really simple concept tbh, and one that would work, versus this mess we have atm.1 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
SKill or no skill, it doesnt change the fact that the game should be balanced around pvp, and then content be created around that balance for pve. Then everyone wins. If you balance it around pve, then you will always have a constant stream of people complaining about balance in pvp. Its a really simple concept tbh, and one that would work, versus this mess we have atm.
That doesn't make any sense.
In an ideal world, the two would be balanced separately. Since we don't have that, they need to balance both modes simultaneously. If they're just going to balance one mode, then it makes sense to balance the more popular of the two (which is PvE).Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 18, 2018 9:25AM3 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »MLGProPlayer wrote: »The games more worth balancing around PVP at this stage. In terms of depth there is no comparison, there is far more depth in PVP and it is a more skill-oriented mode.
I just jumped into PVE last night for the first time in a while, played a couple dungs, and I cannot imagine how balance should be a priority there. It's a potato-fest
It's like saying you need to balance the playground game, four square. No balance required!!
Lol @ MMO PvP being skill-based where everyone is a different level and has different gear. I play MOBAs for PvP, not MMOs.
SKill or no skill, it doesnt change the fact that the game should be balanced around pvp, and then content be created around that balance for pve. Then everyone wins. If you balance it around pve, then you will always have a constant stream of people complaining about balance in pvp. Its a really simple concept tbh, and one that would work, versus this mess we have atm.
That doesn't make any sense.
In an ideal world, the two would be balanced separately. Since we don't have that, they need to balance both modes simultaneously. If they're just going to balance one mode, then it makes sense to balance the more popular of the two (which is PvE).
Its not about whats more popular, its about what would work. If you balance around static environments and bosses, who never change, there is bound ti be issues with pvp. If you balance around pvp and those situations, and then make content according to that balance, then everything works out, because youll never see a trial boss complain about balance. Its been done in other games and they are generally more balanced. A more convoluted approach would be to balance them seperately and make the game act differently depending on if you were in pvp or pve.
Both would work, none are being done. So we get this mess we have atm. No game in the history of MMOS has EVER achieved true balance by balancing pvp around pve content. However, the otherway, has been achieved. The game escapes me tho. Its been a long, long time.1