Idea to help Magicka Warden DPS

Caetto · April 2018

Change the bear ultimate into a slottable skill while keeping it at its current damage.

Currently it barely does 600 dps more than the sorcerer's volatile familiar and while sorcerers get to keep their ultimate slot open they also already have an execute whereas wardens have to use their bear.

I wouldn't mind them reducing the execute damage or making it have an actual cooldown rather than having to build ultimate to do it.

Could we possibly remove Falcons Swiftness or even Cliff Racer to make this possible? Maybe remove Swarm, add its DOT damage into Cliff racer to make this a slightly more viable skill so the bear can be added as a 5th skill in the line?

As an ultimate the bear feels very underwhelming in a skill line called Animal companions, I would rather see something like a pack of animals attacks the target. Like a group made of cliff racers, fetchers, shalks and bears. Something of that nature feels more in line with the class.

Now don't get me wrong I in no way want to see the bear disappear. I absolutely love my bear companion, it is part of what makes me love my warden class but I do believe there should be some kind of change in the line to improve the stance of magicka warden in PVE content.

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

Soleya · April 2018

My biggest issue with the bear isn't the damage. It's the AI and the fact that it dies really easily.

It dies quite often in vMA and vDSA making it useless for the most part. And on some stages it completely ignores adds. Stage 8 for example it attacks broken pillars instead of killing actual enemies.

Quite often you can't recast the ultimate for the power attack because the bear isn't near the target you want it to hit.

EDIT: Example of the AI issues. (stam warden but affects mag warden too). Bear goes after a broken pillar 3 times instead of the 2 hander add, the actual pillar that needs to be broken and the boss.

https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyTangibleElkHeyGirl

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Soleya wrote: »

My biggest issue with the bear isn't the damage. It's the AI and the fact that it dies really easily.

It dies quite often in vMA and vDSA making it useless for the most part. And on some stages it completely ignores adds. Stage 8 for example it attacks broken pillars instead of killing actual enemies.

Quite often you can't recast the ultimate for the power attack because the bear isn't near the target you want it to hit.

It dies instantly in almost all veteran boss fights.

Caetto · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

My biggest issue with the bear isn't the damage. It's the AI and the fact that it dies really easily.

It dies quite often in vMA and vDSA making it useless for the most part. And on some stages it completely ignores adds. Stage 8 for example it attacks broken pillars instead of killing actual enemies.

Quite often you can't recast the ultimate for the power attack because the bear isn't near the target you want it to hit.

It dies instantly in almost all veteran boss fights.

I have have my bear die very very few times in vet boss fights, yes there are bosses that will kill it easily (vDSA for example) but for the most part i don't have many issues with it. However in VMA i completely agree it has issues, it has cost me a no death run twice from where it died and I got stuck in a recast animation unable to react properly.

Part of why I want cliff racer and swarm to be merged together, i mean reduce the initial damage from cliff racer sure, but like the templar vampires bane, give us a a skill that isn't just a quick burst of damage and nothing else.

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

My biggest issue with the bear isn't the damage. It's the AI and the fact that it dies really easily.

It dies quite often in vMA and vDSA making it useless for the most part. And on some stages it completely ignores adds. Stage 8 for example it attacks broken pillars instead of killing actual enemies.

Quite often you can't recast the ultimate for the power attack because the bear isn't near the target you want it to hit.

It dies instantly in almost all veteran boss fights.

I have have my bear die very very few times in vet boss fights, yes there are bosses that will kill it easily (vDSA for example) but for the most part i don't have many issues with it. However in VMA i completely agree it has issues, it has cost me a no death run twice from where it died and I got stuck in a recast animation unable to react properly.

Part of why I want cliff racer and swarm to be merged together, i mean reduce the initial damage from cliff racer sure, but like the templar vampires bane, give us a a skill that isn't just a quick burst of damage and nothing else.

Any boss with high AOE damage kills it instantly (think Falkreath Hold, Fang Lair, etc.). It happens in most trials and DLC dungeons.

Caetto · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

I don't think it would be fair or balanced with the pet sorcs to give us a pet that doesn't despawn on bar swap to be honest, if they went that route I think they would have to do it to sorc skills too or have every pet sorc crying about it until they did

Caetto · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Soleya wrote: »

My biggest issue with the bear isn't the damage. It's the AI and the fact that it dies really easily.

It dies quite often in vMA and vDSA making it useless for the most part. And on some stages it completely ignores adds. Stage 8 for example it attacks broken pillars instead of killing actual enemies.

Quite often you can't recast the ultimate for the power attack because the bear isn't near the target you want it to hit.

It dies instantly in almost all veteran boss fights.

I have have my bear die very very few times in vet boss fights, yes there are bosses that will kill it easily (vDSA for example) but for the most part i don't have many issues with it. However in VMA i completely agree it has issues, it has cost me a no death run twice from where it died and I got stuck in a recast animation unable to react properly.

Part of why I want cliff racer and swarm to be merged together, i mean reduce the initial damage from cliff racer sure, but like the templar vampires bane, give us a a skill that isn't just a quick burst of damage and nothing else.

Any boss with high AOE damage kills it instantly (think Falkreath Hold, Fang Lair, etc.). It happens in most trials and DLC dungeons.

Yeah i agree there, though on vFang my bear didn't die, Falkreath it bit the dust very, very quickly lol

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

I don't think it would be fair or balanced with the pet sorcs to give us a pet that doesn't despawn on bar swap to be honest, if they went that route I think they would have to do it to sorc skills too or have every pet sorc crying about it until they did

The bear is an ultimate. It can behave differently. The bear is also a mandatory skill (you're falling close to 10k DPS behind the other magicka classes when you don't use it). Sorcs can still hit competitive DPS numbers without their pets.

Caetto · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

I don't think it would be fair or balanced with the pet sorcs to give us a pet that doesn't despawn on bar swap to be honest, if they went that route I think they would have to do it to sorc skills too or have every pet sorc crying about it until they did

The bear is an ultimate. It can behave differently. The bear is also a mandatory skill. Sorcs can still hit competitive DPS without their pets.

Very very true man, I just want to see some changes I just don't want to lose my bear pet. He is my absolute favorite part of running a warden

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Caetto wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

I don't think it would be fair or balanced with the pet sorcs to give us a pet that doesn't despawn on bar swap to be honest, if they went that route I think they would have to do it to sorc skills too or have every pet sorc crying about it until they did

The bear is an ultimate. It can behave differently. The bear is also a mandatory skill. Sorcs can still hit competitive DPS without their pets.

Very very true man, I just want to see some changes I just don't want to lose my bear pet. He is my absolute favorite part of running a warden

I agree. I like the idea of using a pet too. It's a druid/ranger class after all. They clearly designed the class around the bear too as it contributes the majority of the class' damage. They just need to find a way to make the class useful as a DPS. It's been 12 months already, and they've made no changes. It's disheartening that ZOS doesn't care about its paying customers.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

You obviously arent measure it's damage correctly. The bear does, on average, over 5k DPS on it's own - that's not even counting using the attack ultimate.

It will not be made single bar, that suggestion has been done a thousand fricking times for both wardens and sorcs - it isnt going to happen.

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

You obviously arent measure it's damage correctly. The bear does, on average, over 5k DPS on it's own - that's not even counting using the attack ultimate.

It will not be made single bar, that suggestion has been done a thousand fricking times for both wardens and sorcs - it isnt going to happen.

Show me a parse where warden, with the bear, hits harder than another class.

And bear doesn't hit more than 5k on target dummy.

The problem is warden DPS can't even breach 35k without the bear. It's a mandatory skill. Unless they rework the entire class, the bear isn't going anywhere. The easiest solution is to make it a single bar ability. Magicka warden will STILL have the lowest DPS in the game (as it already does), but it will at least gain access to an AOE ult (which it sorely lacks).

There is not one single drawback to making it a single bar ability.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

You obviously arent measure it's damage correctly. The bear does, on average, over 5k DPS on it's own - that's not even counting using the attack ultimate.

It will not be made single bar, that suggestion has been done a thousand fricking times for both wardens and sorcs - it isnt going to happen.

Show me a parse where warden, with the bear, hits harder than another class.

The problem is warden DPS can't even breach 35k without the bear. It's a mandatory skill. Unless they rework the entire class, the bear isn't going anywhere. The easiest solution is to make it a single bar ability. Magicka warden will STILL have the lowest DPS in the game (as it already does), but it will at least gain access to an AOE ult (which it sorely lacks).

Magicka warden's issues arent with the bear at all. Stam wardens are hitting 70k Parses with the bear.

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

You obviously arent measure it's damage correctly. The bear does, on average, over 5k DPS on it's own - that's not even counting using the attack ultimate.

It will not be made single bar, that suggestion has been done a thousand fricking times for both wardens and sorcs - it isnt going to happen.

Show me a parse where warden, with the bear, hits harder than another class.

The problem is warden DPS can't even breach 35k without the bear. It's a mandatory skill. Unless they rework the entire class, the bear isn't going anywhere. The easiest solution is to make it a single bar ability. Magicka warden will STILL have the lowest DPS in the game (as it already does), but it will at least gain access to an AOE ult (which it sorely lacks).

Magicka warden's issues arent with the bear at all. Stam wardens are hitting 70k Parses with the bear.

Yes they are.

The class NEEDS the bear to hit competitive DPS numbers. However, it also needs an AOE ultimate as a magicka DPS class. That's a huge problem. They could increase warden DPS to be higher than magNB and it would still be less desirable in groups due to lack of AOE damage.

And what does stamina warden have to do with this?

They could make other changes to the bear, but this is by far the easiest one.

Caetto · April 2018

I usually parse around 35k on my magden, I added up everything on the bear and it totalled around 5k total dps. Looking at a 41k alcast pet sorc parse his volatile hits for 3.9k total and still has his ultimate which does another 4.7k damage.

This is why I want to change the bear ultimate to a slottable skill, make it more like a magicka sorcs pet and make us double bar it, that would be perfectly fair. However if they persist in it being our ultimate can it possibly hit harder? Or can we have changes to the base skills to improve them?

I look at templars with the vampires bane morph and it does damage then adds the DOT effect, magdens have to use two different skills to get that effect(swarm and cliff racer) that's why I'm thinking why not combine the two. Dragonknights and sorcerers main dots do the same, dragonknights with burning embers and sorcerers with haunting curse/daedric prey.

Does anyone else have ideas for existing skills that could improve magden to at least compete with the main dps classes?

StoicSunbro · April 2018

It may be too late for Summerset, but in the future I would like if Warden DPS provided group utility by buffing group DPS. These buffs should not stack so they aren't a flavor of the month with eight in a raid or a plague in pvp zergs. With that in mind here's some "wild" ideas: (pardon the pun)

Bear
The base skill could apply an unused Debuff, Major Vulnerability, which increases Target damage taken by ~14% for 12 seconds. In pvp this is avoidable and purgeable. It buffs group damage considerably and just two wardens could maintain near 100% uptime with coordination.

ZOS could revisit the morphs because right now they are "This one respawns" and "this one's for Stam". Just to throw an idea out, the Magicka morph could be "Polar Bear" that additionally has a constant AOE frost damage aura that snares.

Swarm
Work the AOE "Swarm" morph into the base skill but it procs off a synergy, not time. Your ally synergizes and it "aggravates" the swarm, doing burst damage, and spreading the DoT to nearby enemies.

Infection's 50% damage every other cast can cause weird habits like doublecasting. Instead borrow from DK's Engulfing Flames, enemies affected (even by the synergy AOE) take more 8% damage from magic (not fire) damage abilities. This buffs all Animal Companion abilities, and Magblades and Magplars will be happy a Magden is in group. This doesn't stack with other wardens.

Where Growing Swarm used to be, make a stam morph that deals poison damage, and increases damage taken from poison abilities.

Lotus Flower
Sorcs, the other pet class, can shield their pets. This ability could heal you, the bear, and an ally on each cast. It should either buff light/heavy attack damage or give 5% max magicka/stamina like Bound Armor. I'd prefer the resources since that helps Warden Healers.

Scorch
Both morphs were impacted this patch, it may seem fair to add a Magic/Poison DoT to both morphs to targets hit by the ability. I'm thinking 800 dps in PvP, 1600 in PvE. Again the ability is avoidable and purgeable in PVP. If the DOT lasted 9 seconds, it'd fit nicely in a rotation with Winter's Revenge and Psijic's Accelerate.

Caetto · April 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

It may be too late for Summerset, but in the future I would like if Warden DPS provided group utility by buffing group DPS. These buffs should not stack so they aren't a flavor of the month with eight in a raid or a plague in pvp zergs. With that in mind here's some "wild" ideas: (pardon the pun)

Bear
The base skill could apply an unused Debuff, Major Vulnerability, which increases Target damage taken by ~14% for 12 seconds. In pvp this is avoidable and purgeable. It buffs group damage considerably and just two wardens could maintain near 100% uptime with coordination.

ZOS could revisit the morphs because right now they are "This one respawns" and "this one's for Stam". Just to throw an idea out, the Magicka morph could be "Polar Bear" that additionally has a constant AOE frost damage aura that snares.

I actually really like this idea, I would love to see my bear give a frost damage dot and stamina bears a poison or disease dot to help with damage however if they were to implement major vulnerability maybe make it so it lasts 10 seconds every time you hit the ultimate.

StoicSunbro wrote: »

Swarm
Work the AOE "Swarm" morph into the base skill but it procs off a synergy, not time. Your ally synergizes and it "aggravates" the swarm, doing burst damage, and spreading the DoT to nearby enemies.

Infection's 50% damage every other cast can cause weird habits like doublecasting. Instead borrow from DK's Engulfing Flames, enemies affected (even by the synergy AOE) take more 8% damage from magic (not fire) damage abilities. This buffs all Animal Companion abilities, and Magblades and Magplars will be happy a Magden is in group. This doesn't stack with other wardens.

Where Growing Swarm used to be, make a stam morph that deals poison damage, and increases damage taken from poison abilities.

Again here I have no issues, the only thing is I want to see damage on initial hit, not just a dot

StoicSunbro wrote: »

Lotus Flower
Sorcs, the other pet class, can shield their pets. This ability could heal you, the bear, and an ally on each cast. It should either buff light/heavy attack damage or give 5% max magicka/stamina like Bound Armor. I'd prefer the resources since that helps Warden Healers.

This i'm not too fond about since technically you have a magicka buff with northern storm but I can see where you are coming from. It would be nice to have a buff available to stamina as well.

StoicSunbro wrote: »

Scorch
Both morphs were impacted this patch, it may seem fair to add a Magic/Poison DoT to both morphs to targets hit by the ability. I'm thinking 800 dps in PvP, 1600 in PvE. Again the ability is avoidable and purgeable in PVP. If the DOT lasted 9 seconds, it'd fit nicely in a rotation with Winter's Revenge and Psijic's Accelerate.

Now this on I am wholeheartedly behind, it seems like most of the abilities are one trick ponies. Cast it and it either does damage or it does a dot, nothing else

MLGProPlayer · April 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

It may be too late for Summerset, but in the future I would like if Warden DPS provided group utility by buffing group DPS.

Bingo.

The warden currently has 4 DPS skills (lol). None of these skills have secondary effects. They just deal damage. A DPS warden currently has zero group utility, despite being a "support-oriented" class.

jlmurra2 · April 2018

I only use the bear for my tank/stamina Warden, not my magicka Warden.

If anything was done to balance magicka Wardens DPS with the other classes I hope it would not be based on the bear.

Remee · April 2018

Swarm needs a stamina morph.
Falcon's Swiftness needs a magicka morph.

Over all the warden needs more stamina friendly things.

With the change to the way stamina has more of an impact on your damage than weapon damage does, you need to consider putting in some changes to the fighter's guild line to stam % increase.

I'd like to see the bear nerfed in favor of increases to other skills for the warden as well.
(Just my 2 cents)

StoicSunbro · April 2018

ZOS also seems interested in improving parity between Magicka and Stamina and reworking unused morphs.

Unlike magicka dps with its one weapon line, Stamina gets a bulk of their kit from non-class skills.

Scorching Flare could have similar damage of Caltrops.
Scalding Rune or Entropy could do higher damage.

Sure other classes could use them, but this gives more options.

NewBlacksmurf · April 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

The problem is its a Pet......I've just considered this class as another healer only and left it as is....but I'll use the bear ultimate and 2 rejuv staves in non Hard Mode content.

I'm not high enough yet to do Vet content so well see in a few short levels

Caetto · April 2018

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just change the morph on eternal guardian:

"The bear no longer de-spawns when you bar swap"

This would allow wardens to slot destruction staff ultimate.

The bear is currently a mandatory skill as it adds around 5k DPS. Even with the bear, warden still has the lowest DPS in the game, but at least it's somewhat competitive.

The current morph for eternal guardian is useless as it doesn't do anything. It just re-spawns the bear for you instead of you having to hit the key bind when it dies. You even have to go through the skill animation, which is doubly annoying as it interrupts your rotation (I would rather cast when I want to).

Ideally, the class should also have some utility on its DPS skills (either debuffs or group buffs). Currently, warden DPS classes have no utility. They just provide straight damage. They need to provide more to compensate for their low damage.

The problem is its a Pet......I've just considered this class as another healer only and left it as is....but I'll use the bear ultimate and 2 rejuv staves in non Hard Mode content.

I'm not high enough yet to do Vet content so well see in a few short levels

I do almost all the vet content (besides vet trials lately) on my magden(and have a build doing 38-39k atm on pts) and I dont have any issues but unless I run master architect or infallible aether i dont bring much to the group. I do have 2 open slots on my bar, one of those slots is always my harness magicka(or prey in normal dungeons) and my other is a flex spot(vines, enchanted growth etc) so I can force group utility in if I need to. However my main focus in the game is a dedicated dps with a healer if I want a change. Templars dot gives the group minor sorcery and dks dot increases fire damage. I just wish our skills did a little bit more

StoicSunbro · April 2018

They once did a patch to make Pets ignore Starfall and other Trial mechanics which was wonderful but there are issues left:
Chain Lightning in vAA causes pets to kill melee dps.
Pets require constant babysitting in Assembly General, since if they attack him while he kneels, you can easily die.

Another issue is AOE kill mechanics. Argonian Behemoth Scream, Storm Atro pads, World shaper just to name a few. Recalling often isn't fast enough and the pet dies throwing us into an animation.

Other classes can keep their DOTs up, especially ultimates, during these mechs. Pets should get some sort of high mitigation against PVE AOE or the recall mech should work faster or teleport.

Caetto · April 2018

StoicSunbro wrote: »

They once did a patch to make Pets ignore Starfall and other Trial mechanics which was wonderful but there are issues left:
Chain Lightning in vAA causes pets to kill melee dps.
Pets require constant babysitting in Assembly General, since if they attack him while he kneels, you can easily die.

Another issue is AOE kill mechanics. Argonian Behemoth Scream, Storm Atro pads, World shaper just to name a few. Recalling often isn't fast enough and the pet dies throwing us into an animation.

Other classes can keep their DOTs up, especially ultimates, during these mechs. Pets should get some sort of high mitigation against PVE AOE or the recall mech should work faster or teleport.

At least for eternal, I believe we should have a 10-15 cooldown on the respawns but it should be instant. Not locking us into a animation when the bear dies then if it dies when the cooldown is still up then we have to manually resummon the bear.